B18A engine swap to a B20

[JayKaye]

Well im looking at doing a complete engine swap in my DA9 LS Integra. Working in the I.T industry I dont know much about swapping engines BUT I have done a complete top end rebuild on my B18A before.... twice.

My question is, compared to pulling the head off and putting it back on properly how much more difficult is it to pull the entire engine out and replace it with a B20? I am aware that the engine needs to be pulled out on an angle and I am also aware that apparantly one of the engine mounts in the bay needs to be modified slightly to accomodate the B20 engine. Other than that I have NEVER done anything like this and the thought of it is fairly scary!

I have been told its pretty easy and I have a backyard mechanic friend who has a engine hoist thingy and another mechanic mate who can help me out if I get into trouble. But yeh, I wanna hear everyones thoughts on this before I dive in head first!

Thanks! :)

[LO_N_SXC]

Yes it is an easy swap, I've also done the research but my personal opinion is that you shouldnt go for a B20, yes it may be a 2.0 litre but it also has its down sides, why not go for some thing smaller like a B16A or a B18B from a DC2 GSi which is what I've done to my LS????? believe me it may have just an extra 10hp but which may not seem like much but you do feel the difference compared to your old engine.

whichever you do decide to drop in you will have to retain your Inlet manifold and passangers side engine mount has to be swaped over appart from that it is pretty much a straight swap, for more info on engine options visit: www.g2ic.com you will have to become a member but once you have done so make sure you do a search before hand on your related topic...

Best of luck ;)

Alex

[JayKaye]

Thanks for your reply mate. Appreciated.

I may be getting this conversion done very soon. At the moment the body work is shocking and is going to be fixed up through insurance in the next few weeks. Then ill be getting a b20 put in. The mechanics i use are Hannys Performance (only Honda) in Smithfield.

[integral90]

bore a b18b to b19b :p

or just go b18b, as they are basically the same as a b18a but (generally) less k's and obviously technology slightly improved.

[marcus]

power of b20 is incredible!!!!

[EGB16A]

B20 has many advantages, just make sure you get someone that knows what they are doing to put the engine together. The last thing you want is for the engine to go bang, after you've put all your hard earned $$ into it. Built and tuned properly, they last a long time, providing you treat it well.

check out b20vtec.com

[kenji]

talk to tinkerbell is done some awesome stuff with his B20 :D

[JayKaye]

cool! thanks guys!

b20vtec.com is wicked! thanks..

Marcus, when you say b20 power is incredible, what do you mean? compared to the b18 the b20 is heaps faster? or when vtec conversion is done?
I dont think ill be doing a vtec conversion on it, ill just leave the engine stock. Less complications.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

when you say you are putting in a b20 does that mean you have a motor that has been pre built ready to be put in? OR are you planning to build one up?

Cus if you are building one from the ground up i know that hontoys sell b20 blocks for roughly 500. Then you will need to decide if your gona use a b16 or b18 head. Also sleeving and upgrading the pistons and rods, all these factors really come down to how you drive your car.

[JayKaye]

If I need to build it ground up I dont mind as ive got enough experience with engines to do it all myself but I would rather buy the complete engine and just slap it in the bay. Ive read up a lot about putting a vtec head on a normal b series block and it seems simple enough with only some modifications.

I am talking to someone now about getting a complete b20 engine, if that works out well ill just put that in, if not then ill look at a frankenstein engine.

My only worry about the vtec head is the price of the head. Being vtec I dont think itll be too cheap and money is an issue atm :(

[marcus]

which heads are better for b20...b16 or b18 head?

[iced]

aparently the b20 block is weak than a b16 even.
i heard its better to use a b18c as a base and get a 2.0L kit for it.

[EGB16A]

aparently the b20 block is weak than a b16 even.
i heard its better to use a b18c as a base and get a 2.0L kit for it.

weaker than a b16??? care to elaborate? and which 2.0L kit are you refering to????

b20 sleeves are thinner than other b series engines due to the larger bore (84mm) compared to b16 (81mm). Because of this they are deemed "weaker". Rev them to buggery, and they could go bang, but rev any engine to bugger and it could also go bang.... The best security for these engines is a good tuner.

jaykaye- spardikis had a b16a head for sale in the for sale forum for about $300, which is a pretty good price.

[SKREMN]

are you planing to do vtec as well or just stock b20?
ive got a b20 with b18 head in my da9

[JayKaye]

For now I think im leaning towards just a b20 stock. I guess I could grab a b20 bottom end (or change the rings in my b18 bottom end) and slap on the b16 head but a stock b20 is so much easier and less of a stuff around and SAFER. I guess sometime in the future I could always go vtec.

[tinkerbell]

a B20B stock is a great upgrade on B18A... much more usable torque!

such an easy swap!!!

you can do it yourself easy...

then down the track if you feel like it - add the B16A head for full B20VTEC...

[tinkerbell]

aparently the b20 block is weak than a b16 even.

yes, it is "weaker",

but this is like saying that a panther is weaker than a lion...

[JayKaye]

ok, bringing this thread back! :)

I paid for my CRV b20b8 engine today! :) I also bought the wiring harnass and ECU (OBD2). My mechanic (in Smithfield) told me that all he needed was the engine and that he could use my existing wiring harnass and ECU (OBD0) for the conversion (from an LS integra with a b18a).
I would much rather him put in the new ECU as im sure its got much more features in it and being made for that engine I cant go wrong. He told me not to bother as its not possible (how????) and to stick with my existing ECU. I think he is just saying that to get out of the hassle of changing a wiring harnass.

My question. With the old ECU (made for a 1.8 litre b18a engine) running the new 2.0litre engine wont that cause less fuel to be injected into the cylinders? so the power wont be as much as it should be?
If I do change the ECU/wiring harnass what else do I need other than the dizzy off the CRV engine (which I dont have atm, ill have to buy it). Would I need the airflow meter? can I use the existing one off my b18a? anything else im missing?

Should I just get them to change the harnass/ECU over to the newer one? or should I do this myself (my knowledge in cars and electronics is pretty good but not excellent and it would be my first time working on the electronics of my car).

Thnx

[tinkerbell]

you *should* get away with it.

using the old harness + old ECU on the new engine will be fine. (you will have to swap the sensors/distributor off your old engine onto the new engine)

BUT - you should use a adjusatable fuel pressure regulator and set the fuel pressure on the dyno for optimal results

so basically - the new engine is exactly the same as your old engine, except for the 84mm bore (old engine is 81mm bore)

becasue it is exactly the same, you just need to connect your car to it the same way your old engine was attached...

you DONT need to "try to make the car fit the engine", but you DO need to "try to make the engine fit the car".

your mechanic sounds like they have the right idea...

[tinkerbell]

just re-read yourt post, you certainly should NOT try to convert your LS integra to OBD2.

thsi is crazy and entirely unneccesary.

for example, i was running my B20VTEC in my 1990 LS with the standard LS integra wiring harness + a few VTEC wires off a OBD0 ecu with a Mugen chip in it plus adjustable fuel pressure regulator...

[JayKaye]

whats so bad about upgrading the ECU from OBD0 to OBD2? As far as I know there are pinouts on the OBD2 which allows you to take readings directly from the ECU. With the OBD0 the only output it has is a flashing red LED talk to me in morse code! :thumbdwn:
Isnt the OBD2 more advanced? which to me means it should run more efficient and have more options.

I assumed the engine would run better with what it was designed for. Even though the blocks are similar they are not exactly the same and the head looks very different to me (albeit im no mechanic).

Anyone used the OBD2 ECU for their b18 to b20 swap?


Also, to note. I will be wrecking and selling my old (b18) engine off when the job is done. Including recently machined head :)

[JayKaye]

oh, also. What benefit would the adjustable fuel pressure regulator give me?

Im ASSUMING that the old ECU is set up for an 81mm bore and will only inject fuel/air for that size bore but the fuel pressure regulator will allow me to inject more fuel to accomodate for the bigger bore? am I right or completely off??? :P

[tinkerbell]

whats so bad about upgrading the ECU from OBD0 to OBD2?

cost + non-compatability with your OBD0 LS integra

As far as I know there are pinouts on the OBD2 which allows you to take readings directly from the ECU.

only with special equipment

With the OBD0 the only output it has is a flashing red LED talk to me in morse code! :thumbdwn:

no, for OBD2 the code flashes on the dash instead of the ECU so it is still morse code!

Isnt the OBD2 more advanced?

more advanced in terms of emmissions controls, yes.

which to me means it should run more efficient and have more options.

more options? ummmm, no not really.


I assumed the engine would run better with what it was designed for.

no, the engien will run any waysyou tell it to.

Even though the blocks are similar they are not exactly the same and the head looks very different to me (albeit im no mechanic).

head is internally the same.

Anyone used the OBD2 ECU for their b18 to b20 swap?

you are actually asking "has anyone converted their OBD0 LS integra to OBD2"


see BOLD

the FPR will help add fuel (if it is found via a dyno run to be insufficent)

[JayKaye]

Thanks for the reply :)

awww so I shouldnt go for OBD2? :( I was looking forward to upgrading the ECU. :(

So after the engine has been put in you recommend I get a FPR and take it for a dyno tune? How much would an FPR's set me back and where can I get it from?

Thnx

[Cold Fusion]

if ur looking to upgrade ECU get hondata or something, or if u dont wanna go that crazy (money concious like most of us) get a SAFC, your existing ECU will love it.

i think he reccmends dyno'ing it 1st and then if its not running entirely correct get a FPR, but FPRs are good anywahy so i suggest getting one. coz while ur there, you may as well do it.

[SKREMN]

i got a FPR from the us off ebay it mountes onto the stock fuel rail so looks neat and tidy this cost me $250

[tinkerbell]

if ur looking to upgrade ECU get hondata or something, or if u dont wanna go that crazy (money concious like most of us) get a SAFC, your existing ECU will love it.

i think he reccmends dyno'ing it 1st and then if its not running entirely correct get a FPR, but FPRs are good anywahy so i suggest getting one. coz while ur there, you may as well do it.

it is my opinion that that engine will require slightly more fuel than the stock ECU will provide,

so i recommed getting a simple "power run" done on the dyno to see if the air/fuel ratio is fine...

the truth is that it will run leaner, which will make more power, but too lean might damage iot, so you should check it before doing any hard driving...

a "power run" is usually 3 dyno runs for $50ish...

[LO_N_SXC]

^^^ He's right

[JayKaye]

great! Thanks for the tips guys. Appreciated. Will get it on a dyno once the engine is in :)

[LO_N_SXC]

^^^ Good on ya!

PS: Keep us posted on how you go with the conversion ;)