(euro) Brake upgrade advice

[mugen88]

Considering some brake upgrades for the Euro for street use mainly.

Is it better to start replacing them in this order or would I get more value in doing the pads and then upgrading straight to aftermarket calipers?

* better brake pads
* Upgrade rotors
* Upgrade calipers

Can't afford to do the whole lot at once so any advice is appreciatted, thanks.

[EuroDude]

You need to consider ABS/VSA compatibility if you replace the rotors/calipers. I believe someone on the forums put mercedes capilpers on and its causing problems with ABS/VSA.

From what others have mentioned, simply replacing the pads will improve brake response greatly, so maybe try a set of premium Bendix pads first and see how that goes :)

[Tobster]

You need to consider ABS/VSA compatibility if you replace the rotors/calipers. I believe someone on the forums put mercedes capilpers on and its causing problems with ABS/VSA.
They actually had whole wheel hubs, not calipers.

***

If it's for street use, I would suggest that you don't really need a hard-core conversion. I'd start with pads, and then maybe go to braided brakelines. Then I'd do disks if required or when the stock ones wear out. Unless you really want pretty calipers and have money to burn, I wouldn't bother with them.

If you really want to upgrade the whole lot (which really isn't necessary for street use IMO and you can end up with brakes that can seem worse because you won't be getting the heat into them that they need to operate) then I wouldn't do it in stages, but do the whole lot as a compatible package.

The other thing to bear in mind is your insurance...

[aaronng]

Go with the pads first. With the rotors, if you are sticking to the same size, then you might as well stick with the stock one as an aftermarket rotor won't give you additional stopping power, it just resists warpage better.

If you are really loaded, then a caliper upgrade would be nice. Of course, the 4-pot caliper would be larger, so it would have its matching rotor that is larger. When you put all together, you'll realise that the 16" or 17" rims can't accomodate the brake package and you'll have to go 18 or 19" instead. If you are changing the calipers, remember to upgrade the brakelines to ADR-approved SS ones.

[driven]

If you're gonna be driving on the street, just a change of pads would be sufficient. get good street pads and not high temp track pads. High temp pads will only work well at higher temps and thus will squeal and perform poorly under street conditions.

majority of the big brake kits(brembo, AP, endless, spoon) will fit within 17" rims. Rim width, offset and spoke design would be the important factor and not rim size. Spoon calipers will fit with stock rotors.

[aaronng]

I was looking at the Project Mu 4-pots. Here's a pic comparing the size to a 16" rim. It's going into a tsx with the Comptech SC and 19" LE28N. I wonder if it will fit into 17" rims...

(Source: TSX Acurazine forums)
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1366/00293ra.jpg

[Chris_F]

id say just upgrade the pads then the brake lines. The stock euro calipers and rotors hold up fine under track conditions as a few members have tested them with better pads and they work a treat.

[raz05]

better street pads, brake line, brake oil will do for street use

here is an example of how big an endless brake calipers is on 18s
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f329/paulfan8240/20060408166.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f329/paulfan8240/20060408169.jpg

[aaronng]

Wow, that just clears the rims by 1cm, like how the stock calipers clear the 16" rims. How much did the Endless calipers cost you? Are they forged?

Also, since the front system is upgraded, what do you upgrade the rear calipers with? If the brake bias is too much to the front, that's not good too.

[raz05]

NAh, i'm only using stock one. I wish i have them......lol

[mugen88]

Can someone share their experience with brand, type and cost of upgrading brake pads in the Euro?

What works better and why?

[EuroDude]

I was driving in the wet today and was very suprised how much better the brakes performed - they were very responsive and werent spongy at all like as usual.

Which leads me to believe that simply replacing the pads with some decent aftermarket ones can greatly improve braking, without the need for new calipers/rotors/lines :) I am guessing the stock honda pads generate too much dust or something.


Its worth a try at least, before spending mega bucks on the expensive equipment.

[BiLL|z0r]

Can any1 recommend some brake pad brands and ranges (i.e. Bendix Advance as meantioned earlier) and their pros/cons. This may help mugen88 in his purchase (and me too later on)

Some pads are great for stopping but after 5km's your wheels are black from the brake dust. BMW pads are notorious for brake dust (which is why so many bmw's have really dirty front wheels). My mum has a 120i and will be changing the pads when they wear out to something else due to very high dust.

Also isn't the purpose of braided lines so the brake pedal doesn't feel so spongy. I find the Euro brake response excellent for daily driving and certainly wouldn't want it any harder.

[Chris_F]

Can any1 recommend some brake pad brands and ranges (i.e. Bendix Advance as meantioned earlier) and their pros/cons. This may help mugen88 in his purchase (and me too later on)

Some pads are great for stopping but after 5km's your wheels are black from the brake dust. BMW pads are notorious for brake dust (which is why so many bmw's have really dirty front wheels). My mum has a 120i and will be changing the pads when they wear out to something else due to very high dust.

Also isn't the purpose of braided lines so the brake pedal doesn't feel so spongy. I find the Euro brake response excellent for daily driving and certainly wouldn't want it any harder.

as far as I know Endless make some of the best pads available. Something like the endless vn8500 would be perfect for a street application, working well at low temperatures but providing significantly better braking power. Endless also make a high performance pad that is "dust free" - check out their range :thumbsup:

Also i believe the braided brake lines really come into their own under high temperature braking. Usually the standard lines will expand and the brakes will have more of a spongy feel as temperature increases, the braided lines resist expansion very well at high temps. So if your just driving aroudn the street braided lines would most likely be over kill.

[stephen8512]

just for pple's FYI, degree rating is the temperature range at which the braking material provides a specified coefficient of friction within a tolerance

bascially for street use, its prob recommended the rating from 0 degrees (No need to be warm up) unlike some race pads such as 200-800 which won't perform very well when its cold.

AS chris said, ENDLESS makes some of the best pads. But I also recommend Project MU brake pads.

[Ronin 09]

A lot of the boys from the track run Race Brakes RB74s - I've had them on my Nissan, and previously my BMW, and they are very good and cheap.
They have good initial bite, and get better with heat... didn't get fade even at Sandown which is pretty hard on brakes.
Have some AP racing 6-pots going on soon with Ferodo DS2500s... they should stop pretty well.
Would seriously recommend:
- good pads (eg RB74s)
- full flush with a good DOT5 fluid (eg. AP racing or Castrol RB600 i think)
- good slotted rotors (curved vane, none of this kangaroo paw business!)
- braided lines (maltech in vic do ADR compliant braided lines for around $100 per line, and can do it on-site)
This will give you everything you would ever need on the street... only when you've done all this and still find you need more brakes would I upgrade the calipers too.

Cheers

[BiLL|z0r]

Nice post man, Rep points to you.

[yfin]

Based on a big thumbs up from Temple Of Vtec I am going to try Axxis Ultimates for the TSX (read Bendix Ultimates). Got them in the USA (ebay) for around $125AUD delivered which I think is very reasonable for front and rear.

Will fit them when I get back to Oz - the only problem if you guys want them locally - Bendix in Australia emailed me saying they don't make the Ultimates for this vehicle. So I am confused as they make the Axxis pads. Fingers crossed the fronts fit - (I am only certain on the rears at the moment although the size on the front looks ok).