My Car is always braking...da9

[Cold Fusion]

hey i dunno its a weird problem, when im just driving. if i take my foot off the accelerator it just seems like it starting to brake by itself...i dont touch the brake pedal but it feels as if the pads are on the caliper or something, coz i can definitly feel it...

does anyone kno what i can do?

Thanks.

[FR33K]

check your handbrake ?

[matt]

you had a new engine put in that didn't you?
could it just be that the new engine is providing more engine braking?

[Cold Fusion]

its not the handbrake, ive never had a problem with the handbrake before and the leaver was down adn the loght was off.

what is engine braking? is it bad? and is it making me not go as fast? like, if its always braking, when i accelerate, im braking, thus my acceleration isnt as fast, could that be possible?

Thanks guys

[FR33K]

if you've never had a problem with the handbrake before that doesnt mean you cant have a problem with it now lol

the cable could be gettin stuck.

engine braking is when say for example your going down a hill in 2nd gear the car will pull back as opposed to having it in neutral where the car will speed up

[Cold Fusion]

how can i check if the cable is getting stuck?, the handbrake light does randomly go on and off sometimes

[Cold Fusion]

after looking at the hand brake i noticed that the 2 things were not stright, they are like \ not |, and when the handbrake is down the side that is up would possibly be rubbing on the brake becuase when the handbrake IS up the other side only gets to where the higer side is when its down (if u kno what i mean...im trying to upload pics) but now all need to kno is how can i change it so that the 2 things are straight?

thanks.

[integral90]

engine braking is where the engine has a certain rpm it wants to sit at, so when you downshift the engine pulls the revs back down the what it wants, so if it is a smaller gear that will slow down the car.

But yeah, as others said, i would check the handbrake cable.

[Cold Fusion]

does htta mena im not getting as much acceleration as i can? or does it only start to work when my foot is off the accelerator?

[gumbs]

You'll only notice it when your off throttle. To test if its engine breaking next time you feel like the car is slowing down quicker push in the clutch and see what happens. If you speed up its engine breaking if not you've got a problem.

[Cold Fusion]

im gonna go for a drive ;)

[Cold Fusion]

back from my lovely drive and yes i THINK it IS the engine braking...when its in neutral it doesnt slow down as fast as it does when it is in a gear.

so now my problem is, how can i change the engine brake? i hate it!

[Eclipsor]

I think you've got the wrong idea. It's not a brake in the same way as the brakes on your wheels are. It is simply inherant in the design of the engine. You don't just turn it off. Do you have a lightened flywheel?

[gumbs]

You'll get used to it. Just keep the car in a higher gear or apply a bit more throttle. The engine breaking is a characteristic of the engine. The only way to get rid of it is to chuck in an auto.

[integral90]

if you wanna stop engine braking, you could get a 40kg flywheel :D

[integral90]

You'll get used to it. Just keep the car in a higher gear or apply a bit more throttle. The engine breaking is a characteristic of the engine. The only way to get rid of it is to chuck in an auto.

automatic transmission won't stop it, if it is triptronic auto then it will do the same thing, it will just be smoother.

[Cold Fusion]

ah thanks everyone for helping me out, so tis just somehting i need to get used to...does it affect my acceleration at all?

and no, i dont have a lightend flywheel,

[gumbs]

automatic transmission won't stop it, if it is triptronic auto then it will do the same thing, it will just be smoother.

Never driven a tip tronic but I know engine breaking in my old calais was non-existant. I thought the design of an auto meant that it wouldn't would always up shift, and cruise at idle so engine breaking wouldn't have any effect until you were above 3k or so in top gear.

Engine breaking has no effect on acceleration.

[FR33K]

so now my problem is, how can i change the engine brake? i hate it!

:zip:

[integral90]

Never driven a tip tronic but I know engine breaking in my old calais was non-existant. I thought the design of an auto meant that it wouldn't would always up shift, and cruise at idle so engine breaking wouldn't have any effect until you were above 3k or so in top gear.

Engine breaking has no effect on acceleration.

That's strange, cause engine braking occurs on every engine. Maybe because your old auto would only down-shift if it had to to stop from stalling or another reason. But in our triptronic Odyssey you downshift and you feel the engine braking.

[FR33K]

i think hes talking about cruising down a hill in "drive" not downshifting the gears in auto.. coz if you go down a hill in auto it will upshift and you'll go faster

[gumbs]

i think hes talking about cruising down a hill in "drive" not downshifting the gears in auto.. coz if you go down a hill in auto it will upshift and you'll go faster

Yeh pretty much. If you ever got into a situation where the engine was actually having any effect it would upshift. I never drove my car manually though. (grabbed 1st at 80 by accident and hit the limiter so I never riskedit again)

[steve]

think of it like this...

When your in a manual and you release the clutch in any gear without depressing the accelerator, it will stall because there is not enough power being produced to move the car.

Now, when you are coasting down a hill in any gear, and release the accelerator, there is not enough power being produced to maintain that speed in that given gear.

You will notice this effect more so in lower gears than you would higher gears at any given speed.

This is pure mechanics, and here is no way around it... in fact in some instances there is major benefit, when circuit racing instead of using your only your brakes to decelerate you can use both engine braking and your normal brakes to slow down quiker.

An engine that accelerates quicker ie in 1st gear will decelerate quiker.

Hope this helps you understand your car a lil better

[SKREMN]

that hand brake thinggy that siont stright its normal and fine
jack up the car and spin the wheels and thats your best bet

[CUL8R]

ill try and say this simply as to try and kill some of the confusion.
when u open the throttle (accelerate) u pump fuel into ur engine and viola ur moving faster and faster due to the fuel burning and turning the crank and spinning ur drivshaft(very basic here).
when u close the throttle (lift off accel) u stop fuel being pumped into the engine. u stop the force which applies the moment to spin the driveshaft, the engine wants to stall! but the wheels are still spinning coz ur moving so the engine rpm will gradually drop to 0 (it will never reach here due to idle and fuel being pumped in to stop it stalling, so itll only drop to about 700rpm) the wheels will keep the engine turning, but the engine will have a retarding force on the wheels.
lower gears will have a greater engine braking effect and higher rpms will have a greater engine braking effect. the only way to avoid engine braking is by sticking it into neutral which seperates the clutch and flywheel which effectily seperates the wheels from the engine which would stop the engine trying to slow down the wheels.

[__arjay__]

Kallan mann..

I remember being in your car and it does seem like something is pulling you back more than normal, well my car.

I know from actually trying to adjust my handbrake that my left rear brake caliper is slightly seized or wateva.. maybe you could test yours out. Jack up the rear of your car with yur car in reverse and maybe some bricks at the front of yur wheels just incase.. then pull yur hand brake up 1 click and try spinning each tyre.. You should feel a slight grip from the caliper..

For example of a crap caliper.. lol
My right side spins without any grip on 1 click and i dont think it actually grips until 3-4 clicks. Then the left side grips with just 1 click.

Test all the little things you can before you start paying people to check it out!

(If anything i have said is incorrect, then dont hesitate to correct me)

[steve]

ill try and say this simply as to try and kill some of the confusion.
when u open the throttle (accelerate) u pump fuel into ur engine and viola ur moving faster and faster due to the fuel burning and turning the crank and spinning ur drivshaft(very basic here).
when u close the throttle (lift off accel) u stop fuel being pumped into the engine. u stop the force which applies the moment to spin the driveshaft, the engine wants to stall! but the wheels are still spinning coz ur moving so the engine rpm will gradually drop to 0 (it will never reach here due to idle and fuel being pumped in to stop it stalling, so itll only drop to about 700rpm) the wheels will keep the engine turning, but the engine will have a retarding force on the wheels.
lower gears will have a greater engine braking effect and higher rpms will have a greater engine braking effect. the only way to avoid engine braking is by sticking it into neutral which seperates the clutch and flywheel which effectily seperates the wheels from the engine which would stop the engine trying to slow down the wheels.

i kno your tryin to keep things simple BUT a petrol engine needs more AIR in the combustion process NOT fuel... hence why u get a 'lean' tune it is more power productive.
Not havin a shot, just making sure newbie's understand the basics :)

[string]

Lightening your flywheel won't yield any lesser engine braking. It comes from cylinder compression and internal resistance.

Steve: Unless you have incredibly small brakes, braking force will be limited by tyre traction, not your brakes. Engine braking isn't a technique, in normal driving or circuit racing, it is simply an observation of what happens when you let off throttle.

OP: If you don't like it, buy an auto, but it sounds like something is wrong.

[JasonGilholme]

Think of it like this:

When you spin a coin on your desk it starts of quickly but will eventually stop. You're engine is doing the same thing when you're foot isn't on the throttle.

To increase this braking effect you change down gears. (2nd will really slow you down :) )

To decrease this effect you change up gears. (5th will feel like cruising in an auto)

I hope this helps mate.

Jase

[steve]

Steve: Unless you have incredibly small brakes, braking force will be limited by tyre traction, not your brakes. Engine braking isn't a technique, in normal driving or circuit racing, it is simply an observation of what happens when you let off throttle.



i kno this, i was trying to explain to the newb that this effect is not 'bad' :rolleyes:

[chicken8]

stop explaining things every1

sounds like u just got the car and 1st time in a manual

its normal. get used to it. nothing is wrong with ur car

end of story

[Cold Fusion]

"stop explaining things every1

sounds like u just got the car and 1st time in a manual

its normal. get used to it. nothing is wrong with ur car

end of story"

end of what story? the wrong one? ive had a manual for quite a while, ive only ever driven a manual, and ive had my car for a long time, though i just got a new engine and if u were in my car when its braking you would ALSO think that im putting my foot on the brake.

[DOHCVTEC]

since u drove manual for quite a while then thats not it...
i reckon check ur handbrake (if u have a proper jack, jack up the car with handbrake down... try spinning the rearwheels with your hand... see if u can(if not then loose the handbrake cables)

but since u got a new engine very likely thats causing ur problem... u'll feel more engine braking in a new engine... until around 1000-5000kms clicks depending on how hard you drive... so just keep driving and if its because of the new engine it'll go away a little bit when your engine runs in

[Cold Fusion]

i sure hope so...coz its seriously so bad, i can cruise in 5th down a pretty steep hill and i lose kmp/h :S

[Mr_will]

stop explaining things every1

sounds like u just got the car and 1st time in a manual

its normal. get used to it. nothing is wrong with ur car

end of story


perhaps you have forgotten that he was asking for advice. people are explaining things to help him.

he clearly has had the car for some time, and it is not his first time in a manual, so saying that is useless

im glad you can diagnose that there is nothing wrong with his car without seeing it, hearing it, or driving it. if only we were all as clever as you.

now that ive dealt with that useless post...

cold_fusion engine braking is a fact of life, dont listen to anyone who tells you to shift into neutral while you are moving, this is bad for many reasons:

1) when you are going down a hill, for example, being in neutral uses MORE fuel than being in gear. when not under load, fuel is not being injected, the engine rotates due to the momentum of the car rolling down the hill

2) if you suddenly need to accelerate youre in trouble.

[Felix]

Do you have a lightweight flywheel?

[Mr_will]

ill try and say this simply as to try and kill some of the confusion.
when u open the throttle (accelerate) u pump fuel into ur engine

nope, when you depress the accelerator you either:

1) directly open the throttle butterfly allowing more air into the combustion chambers (if your accelerator is not drive-by-wire)

2) let the ecu know you want more power, in response to which it will open the throttle butterfly to the extent it sees fit (obviously in proportion to how far you have depressed the throttle (if you have a drive-by-wire throttle)



engine rpm will gradually drop to 0 (it will never reach here due to idle and fuel being pumped in to stop it stalling, so itll only drop to about 700rpm) the wheels will keep the engine turning, but the engine will have a retarding force on the wheels.


so are you saying a car cannot stall? of course it can. revs WILL drop below 700ish rpm if the gear that you are in is too high for the speed you are travelling, and you will stall



the only way to avoid engine braking is by sticking it into neutral which seperates the clutch and flywheel which effectily seperates the wheels from the engine which would stop the engine trying to slow down the wheels.

this would be a very silly thing to do as you lose a lot of control over the car

[string]

1) when you are going down a hill, for example, being in neutral uses MORE fuel than being in gear. when not under load, fuel is not being injected, the engine rotates due to the momentum of the car rolling down the hill

Baha! I've just noticed you on the forum, and for a moment I thought you'd be an equal contender in knowledge and newb-flaming, however now it is my turn to burn you, mwahaha!

In our honda's (and every other car i've driven), under very low load, i.e. lower vacuum than idle (30-26in.hg) there is still fuel being injected. If you refuse to believe me, open your favourite .bin editor with a stock .bin and you'll see that the columns are indeed NON-ZERO.

Now if you still don't believe me, take your car to your favourite hill. Slap it in your gear of choice and roll down. Take note of the noise. Now. Repeat with the car off (preferably at night time with no one around). With the car off the sound is much quieter and just sounds like a whole lot of compression. With the car on, you sound like a mean bastard about to burn holes in the road :D

Though you are correct that idle will consume more fuel.

[Mr_will]

Baha! I've just noticed you on the forum, and for a moment I thought you'd be an equal contender in knowledge and newb-flaming, however now it is my turn to burn you, mwahaha!

In our honda's (and every other car i've driven), under very low load, i.e. lower vacuum than idle (30-26in.hg) there is still fuel being injected. If you refuse to believe me, open your favourite .bin editor with a stock .bin and you'll see that the columns are indeed NON-ZERO.

Now if you still don't believe me, take your car to your favourite hill. Slap it in your gear of choice and roll down. Take note of the noise. Now. Repeat with the car off (preferably at night time with no one around). With the car off the sound is much quieter and just sounds like a whole lot of compression. With the car on, you sound like a mean bastard about to burn holes in the road :D

Though you are correct that idle will consume more fuel.


i live to be flamed by you. that and to observe your flaming of those noobier than me

[zook2fiddy]

A couple things you can do...

Drive in a higher gear

fit bigger wheels, the type that can drop your speedo out by 30 km/h ie; dub twins :)

Change the differential ratio

Learn to get used to it.

Some cars will use engine braking to their advantage in the economy stakes, as when it feels negative load on the engine, it will drop the fuel ratio to save you petrol. Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure this is a characteristic of a honda.

I suppose the biggest advantage is your saving brake pads :)

As for the cable, im not too sure, a slack cable usually points to and over adjusted handbrake, or a seized mechanism. agreed to jack the car up and rotate the wheels while out of gear and handbrake off. if it squeels or is very hard to turn, you have a seized hand brake. WD40 is your friend here, but dont get any on the disc.

[sivic]

it does sound like its just engine braking as a result of better compression after the rebuild. either way, you'll know if its your handbrake cos your rear pads will wera super quick lol.

[Cold Fusion]

just another question, my ECU code 43 light is on, could it be that since 43 is the fuel code, could my engine not be getting enough fuel? so its running a bit lean so the compression is higer so its braking more? or something else :S

[Mr_will]

just another question, my ECU code 43 light is on, could it be that since 43 is the fuel code, could my engine not be getting enough fuel? so its running a bit lean so the compression is higer so its braking more? or something else :S


yep youre correct, 43 is the fuel supply system code, so i would be checking the following things:

1) fuel filter
2) injectors

the cost of the fuel filter is low, so id suggest replacing it, if for no other purpose than to eliminate it from your list of potential causes

with regard to the injectors, run some 98 octane fuel and injector cleaner for a tank, and that should sort out any (minor) problems there, unless theres something seriously wrong with your injectors but that wouldnt seem too likely

unless you have a wideband, getting a air/fuel guage unfortunately wont help you in diagnosing this problem.

give those a go and get back to us eh?

[__arjay__]

Grrrr... Stupid Kallan..

Anyways.. I had the same problem awhile back.. Replace your o2 sensor first then see if its still there..

I also read that some guy has a loose ground wire to his thermostat housing causing code 43.

No affence to ozhonda.. but you gotta start searching g2ic dude.. Its a whole website devoted to our car for the last 8+ years.. Their archives are HYOOOGE!!

Here is a quote from one of their sorta admins - "I just had this at the beginning of the year, 4 out of 5 times its the o2 sensor. replaced it fixed it right up."

Good luck! But maybe try emailing me next time dude!

[CRXer]

Baha! I've just noticed you on the forum, and for a moment I thought you'd be an equal contender in knowledge and newb-flaming, however now it is my turn to burn you, mwahaha!

In our honda's (and every other car i've driven), under very low load, i.e. lower vacuum than idle (30-26in.hg) there is still fuel being injected. If you refuse to believe me, open your favourite .bin editor with a stock .bin and you'll see that the columns are indeed NON-ZERO.

Now if you still don't believe me, take your car to your favourite hill. Slap it in your gear of choice and roll down. Take note of the noise. Now. Repeat with the car off (preferably at night time with no one around). With the car off the sound is much quieter and just sounds like a whole lot of compression. With the car on, you sound like a mean bastard about to burn holes in the road :D

Though you are correct that idle will consume more fuel.

Sorry if this is off topic,but i'm not quite following what your saying.

I know the B18's ecu cuts power to the injectors above about 950rpm(type R about 1300rpm) when the throttle valve is closed to conserve fuel.

Do you mean by "very low load" a partially open throttle or closed? Or do you mean its sucking fuel through the injectors or something?

[Mr_will]

Sorry if this is off topic,but i'm not quite following what your saying.

I know the B18's ecu cuts power to the injectors above about 950rpm(type R about 1300rpm) when the throttle valve is closed to conserve fuel.

Do you mean by "very low load" a partially open throttle or closed? Or do you mean its sucking fuel through the injectors or something?


not quite sure what you mean by 'sucking fuel through the injectors"

he is referring to the situation of being in gear with zero throttle, thus the engine being under very low load

in this situation the amount of fuel being injected is very low, less even than at idle.

its partly to conserve fuel and also partly because it would be pointless to be injecting more fuel, zero throttle means no power is required...

[CRXer]

not quite sure what you mean by 'sucking fuel through the injectors"

he is referring to the situation of being in gear with zero throttle, thus the engine being under very low load

in this situation the amount of fuel being injected is very low, less even than at idle.

its partly to conserve fuel and also partly because it would be pointless to be injecting more fuel, zero throttle means no power is required...

If its not "sucking fuel thru the injectors",then how is fuel being discharged at all if the ecu has cut power to the injectors when the throttle is closed?

[Mr_will]

If its not "sucking fuel thru the injectors",then how is fuel being discharged at all if the ecu has cut power to the injectors when the throttle is closed?


ok "cut power to the injectors" <--- those are YOUR words not mine.

i have stated that there is LESS FUEL being injected when the engine is under very low load, compared to when the engine is idling.

you need to read through the previous posts before you start asking questions

[CRXer]

I know for a fact the ecu cuts power to the injectors on B18's,see my first post.
Your obviously not reading the previous posts properly yourself..........

[Mr_will]

youre wrong, it doesnt cut power to them, if youd read strings hill example you would know this.

the injectors are not working as hard, but they sure as hell are still working.

[CRXer]

Quote '94 integra service manual,

"During deceleration with the throttle valve closed,current to the fuel injectors is cut off to improve fuel economy at speeds over the following rpm
B18B-910rpm
B18C-950rpm"

Am I reading this wrong or something?

[Mr_will]

Quote '94 integra service manual,

"During deceleration with the throttle valve closed,current to the fuel injectors is cut off to improve fuel economy at speeds over the following rpm
B18B-910rpm
B18C-950rpm"

Am I reading this wrong or something?


well for a start you are reading an irrelevant document, we are talking about a b18A, not a b18B, not a b18C

under very low load, i.e. lower vacuum than idle (30-26in.hg) there is still fuel being injected. If you refuse to believe me, open your favourite .bin editor with a stock .bin and you'll see that the columns are indeed NON-ZERO.

[CRXer]

Ok

'93 integra service manual
"B18A-915rpm"

If you could just explain that last sentence to me,you would have answered my original question without being a dhead about it all...........

[Raz_man]

Ok

'93 integra service manual
"B18A-915rpm"

If you could just explain that last sentence to me,you would have answered my original question without being a dhead about it all...........


why dont you use google, noob. we're here to answer the question posed by the person who started the thread, not to teach you why fuel is still being injected due to the fact that under lower vacuum than idle fuel will still be injected, ie low load conditions.

[CRXer]

Yeah,sorry Cold Fusion,tried to throw in a quick Q which would prob explain further the answers provided to the original topic,but i got surrounded by a bunch of..........
Still no one can explain how an injector works without power to it?

[MoonSha]

BACK ONTO THE OP's PROBLEM OK.

Here's what I would do to test, very simple. Requires one friend with similar car.

1. Get into your car, friend gets into his.
2. Drive until you find a slight hill somewhere.
3. Both stop next to eachother or one behind the other (you go behind his car).
4. Each put car into neutral, handbrake off.
5. Count down from 3 and both release your brakes at the same time.

If his car goes faster than yours then I think it's safe to say your brakes are applying pressure when none is requested of them.

Right?

*edit* Also the cars need to weigh something near the same, including the wheels. It would take a large amount of weight to make a big difference though.

[string]

Yeah,sorry Cold Fusion,tried to throw in a quick Q which would prob explain further the answers provided to the original topic,but i got surrounded by a bunch of..........
Still no one can explain how an injector works without power to it?
Well an injector is always powered. The ECU grounds the other terminal when it should fire. No firing = No fuel, simple as that.

[Mr_will]

crxer would have you believe, quoting the service manual, allegedy, that this is not the case. what say you to this?

[string]

I say go to a hill and do as I say. The sound makes the answer obvious. You don't really even need a hill. You just need to engine brake anywhere. The noise is so vastly different to when the engine is off that fuel must be being injected.

[INTEGGRA]

Grrrr... Stupid Kallan..

HAHAHA Rj so right!

Kal,My car hasnt had that problem hmmm?