Commercial Posts???

[SINISTR]

I have an issue with what exactly defines a 'commerical' post??

[Q_ball]

i dont know the full dictionary meaning to "commercial" however, from the sounds of things, if you can produce an item and sell it according to the number of responses you get, uve basically got an unofficial "business" happenin, and the thread is purely for advertising on ur behalf - which to my understanding is not allowed.
that is considerably different to someone whos meerly tryin to sell 2nd hand parts.
if you were to sell and advertise ur self produced items, then ud need to pay for a traders position on the site.

[SINISTR]

But im not advertising a business of any kind - mine or other.

So would it be 'politically' correct if I advertised "FS:gen1 fenders" and then as enquires come in I'd inform the buyer I have to make them? To me thats lying and incorrect advertising.

I can find a couple posts on OZHONDA even by members of the moderators team, where they are border line commercial posts, if not directly a request for advertising a business...

[Q_ball]

if u make an "x" amount of fenders according to ppl's interest, then that classes u as a manufacturer, a distributor - official or unofficial is irrelevant.
thats wat u have to get your head around and understand.
ur subsequently gettin more business for urself, and profitin from a free advertising medium via ozhonda, which is prohibited.
to make ur wat ur doin legal on ozhonda, then u should apply to become a trader.

[jimmeh]

hey sinistr

from my understanding if u have a brand new item that is still in a box that is classified as a commercial post.

as well as if u have multiples of the same item.

also you cant post up products,price and where to get it. its a advertising post.

these a definate rules cos ive been done for all of them ;)

[SINISTR]

if u make an "x" amount of fenders according to ppl's interest, then that classes u as a manufacturer, a distributor - official or unofficial is irrelevant.
thats wat u have to get your head around and understand.
ur subsequently gettin more business for urself, and profitin from a free advertising medium via ozhonda, which is prohibited.
to make ur wat ur doin legal on ozhonda, then u should apply to become a trader.

I got my head around it - don't worry - I understand what a manufacturer and distributor is. What I need to stress at this point is that there is NO MONEY or PROFIT being made in this for me. I don't think offering a set of fenders by request constitutes having to become a 'trader' as its simply a ONE OFF - a small amount of 'manufacture or distribution' compared to the amount that Traders make. Fair enough, I also understand its wrong to allow me to do this - as it will let others do it... but there has to be a way!?

Jimmeh: I know where you're comming from about the products, prices etc etc... but a WTB thread asking for links, prices and distributors - isn't that a commercial post in a way?

[SINISTR]

I dont want to make a big deal out of this, more than it needs to be - but I think there can and should be a few exclusions made based on some rules such as quantity of posts being made by an individual who makes 'commercial' posts - Traders make hundreds of SALES a week or in a day. Little guys who can offer a small service can't do so.. I just find that a little bias.

90% of the posts out there have details of workshops, prices etc - isn't that commercial advertising for a 3rd party?

I think if this forum is to grow it needs to be able to offer help and advice to its members - if you find a good place to buy something - let the other people know!!

[jimmeh]

sinistr... alot of the rules dont make sense but we have to live by it man.
In the end its up to the mods how they apply the rules.

See theyll look at it as u selling multiple items and making money. and they have no proof to say that your arent making any money.
therefore its a commercial post

[SINISTR]

sinistr... alot of the rules dont make sense but we have to live by it man.
In the end its up to the mods how they apply the rules.

thats life isn't it?

never mind... thanks for your time guys!

guess all the gen1 owners will have to life with broken fenders... cos they won't know I got the moulds to make them @ the cost of making (no profit for me)

[Q_ball]

^ Well put it this way man, ozhonda isnt a medium for ppl to sell things.
Its not what the forums about.
Be thankful that us members can advertise our 2nd hand stuff for free on the net without having to pay a fee.
If we allow for one or two, then theres gonna be a lot of bitchin and moanin as a result by other members, "oh you let sinistr do this but not me...." etc etc.
You said in ur post above that ur not gaining any monetary profits from this, are you sure? so your giving your fenders away to members interested for free are u?
You said yourself that u know its wrong, so dont bother pushin the point man.
Jst be thankful for wat we can do for free, and leave it at that.

[Zdster]

In the end its up to the mods how they apply the rules.

This is incorrect. It is not "up to the mods", it is the site administrators who make those decisions.

I would PM Wyn about this and see what he says - as if there is no profit being made he might be ok with it.

[jimmeh]

This is incorrect. It is not "up to the mods", it is the site administrators who make those decisions.

I would PM Wyn about this and see what he says - as if there is no profit being made he might be ok with it.

This wasnt taking a stab at the mods so no need to get defensive.
all ppl how uphold the law/rules can apply it the way they see fit.

how come some coppers will slug u if they catch u speeding while another copper will give u a free pass.

that is what i meant.

[bennjamin]

yes at the end of the day its the mods discretion that makes this forum work. 99% of the time its not an issue and we put hard hours in - but this is a silly issue.


Here are both of your posts - tell me they arent comemrcial or EOI ? (both of which arent allowed to nromal members on Ozhonda)


http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Today, 01:54 PM This message has been deleted by bennjamin (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=79). Reason: No EOI's or commercial prospects
Replies: 0
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/statusicon/thread.gif FS/EOI: Fibreglass Fenders for gen1 CRXs (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45617)
Views: 6
Posted By SINISTR (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=2340)
FS/EOI: Fibreglass Fenders for gen1 CRXs (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=753720#post753720)

this is a FORSALE by 'EOI' (since the other thread got dumped :eek:)

I have access to make fibreglass fenders for the 83-86 generation1 CRXs.

Current cost is approx $100 + shipping per...

Forum: Civic/CRX (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8) http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Today, 11:57 AM This message has been deleted by bennjamin (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=79). Reason: No EOI's.
Replies: 0
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/images/statusicon/thread.gif EOI: Fibreglass Fenders for GEN1 CRXs (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45608)
Views: 12
Posted By SINISTR (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=2340)
EOI: Fibreglass Fenders for GEN1 CRXs (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=753606#post753606)

hey All,

I have access to fender moulds - which means you can get good quality fibreglass replicas out of them at a fraction of the cost of original plastic parts.

Wandering if any 'other' people...


Basically , you are asking for interest for these parts and if there is , you will make them. HENCE its a EOI post and also commercially aimed. Nothing more to say really lol.

As always - please pm a moderator BEFORE posting. It saves everyones time and hassle :)

[SINISTR]

EOI doesn't mean its a commercial post Benn. A Group Buy isn't a commercial post either but Im sure if I was to start one here it would get deleted just as quick!

Lets make a start at saying I don't make posts like this ofter - if ever - this is the first one, and I also dont make any money on these. $100 is an approximate cost as the costs of materials haven't been added up and it depends on the amount of layers for each fender.

How about a 'commercial post' from the man whos deleting my offering of help to the very few who own a gen1 CRX.

here's an Example:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45099

LOOK WANTED obd2a to obd1 conversion harness...anyone with links/best prices/ etc !? LOOK WANTED obd2a to obd1 conversion harness...anyone with links/best prices/ etc !?

After any hook ups plz !

ben

Yet when I posted a post about BOOMSLANG as I thought it would benefit people - even yourself you deleted it as a commercial post..

Benn... im not going to argue with you over this - i only suggest you guys as mods and admin - maybe rethink what constitutes a 'Commercial post' based on the content and how often someone POSTS such content.

Thanks

[Fr3aKi3]

I think there's been a bit of misunderstanding.

I don't interpret what Benn said as "EOI = Commercial"
It's more like your thread was both an EOI and somewhat commercial.

Personally I see it as an EOI (which isn't allowed) but as for being commercial, maybe it was interpreted that way as the product is "made to order".

Deletion of the Bommslang post? It's still there, or was it deleted and then put back?

[bennjamin]

You are wrong on both accounts SINISTR (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=2340) , as yopu posted a EOI first off with a commercial proposition.
That is , it is asking for interest in a product which you can make more than ONE of. THAT is commercial.
BTW your "boomslang" example didnt make any sense at all. The WTB section has its rule for ASKING for a good or service. That i complied to 100% :)


Since the question has been answered i fail to see any other point to this.
What does everyone else think ?

[Q_ball]

I think ive stated my say already :)

[matt]

i think sinistr makes a good point in that a commercial post should be looked at on the content in each post not just wether there is the potential to sell more than one.
i mean what hes offering is limited to one particular model, a very old one at that of which there is probably not many around anymore, so i doubt he will be making many.
also he offering to make the fenders at his cost to help out fellow crx's not to make money out of it.

to use an example of something that caused a issue recently, its not like he is selling s2k antennaes that can fit heaps of different models, with the potential to sell hundreds, i would consider that a commercial post and should not be allowed.

perhaps you could just put something in a signiture like benn's.

[Q_ball]

I think the main problem here is that when you give ppl an inch, and they want another and another and another.
Why cant you people jst be happy that you are gettin free webspace to sell your items in the first place.
Remember, you do not pay for being a member on OzHonda, you should out of curtosy, respect the forum rules and jst be happy with what you are given!
You'd be paying for a similar service else where.

[SINISTR]

"I have access to fender moulds - which means you can get good quality fibreglass replicas out of them at a fraction of the cost of original plastic parts" how is that a commercial proposition?

I simply have exactly THAT - access to a set of fender moulds. Im borrowing them off a friend which in actual fact costs me a carton of beer (im at a loss) and I estimate the cost of replicas at $100 per fender. Im obviously not going to give them away so thats why I asked for Expression of Interest...if someone wants a set I'll get them made.
IF I had 10 sets of fenders sitting in my garage, and said i have them for sale - sure - bust my arse for a commercial post... but I haven't even got them yet!
How many Gen1 CRX guys are on here? 3 or 4? how many fenders do I expect to make from here? 1,2 sets if that if nill - we are making about 6 sets within the CRX Club for the guys here and I thought i might offer this UNIQUE opportunity to the rest of the guys in Australia... I don't think this is a HUGE commercial production now is it?

As for Boomslang - not making sense?
I posted up a thread with their details, after I purchased my own harness from them. This was to assist the other Honda owners who just MIGHT do a swap and have to figure out harnesses to make it easy for them and buy an already made harness.
How is posting up business details for a company which could 'assist' people in their swaps a commercial post? Beats me - Im sure as hell not selling them nor are they in my posession, nor do I take orders for them and have them shipped, was I getting any money from it? hell no.

Maybe if my post about Boomslang wasn't deleted, some info was added or perhaps a section for such things created - maybe there would be no need for your WTB thread.

Thats what Im talking about! I try and HELP someone - and the enforcement of these rules kicks me in the arse. Rules are made to be bent or broken... you all know this... so why not adjust them to help people out!

[SINISTR]

I think the main problem here is that when you give ppl an inch, and they want another and another and another.
Why cant you people jst be happy that you are gettin free webspace to sell your items in the first place.
Remember, you do not pay for being a member on OzHonda, you should out of curtosy, respect the forum rules and jst be happy with what you are given!
You'd be paying for a similar service else where.

hang on there... this is where you guys get me all wrong.
Free webspace - fair enough I appreciate that but am I making money from it like the 'Traders'?? Far from it mate. Im offering a unique opportunity - THAT is the difference at the cost of my own time.

As for paying for a similar service else where? I can name quiet large number of websites where these 'commercial' post rules don't exist. Everyone is free to sell what ever they want and how ever many they want.
ZCResouce.com; redpepperracing.com; even my own two forums are free and free to post...

[CUL8R]

so what dp u have to gain by allowing to make these up for others here? r u saying ur not gonna make a dollar out of it?

traders pay a % of their profit(something like that) on a sale which goes to ozhonda, are u going to do the same? if u answer yes i can say right now if u were willing to set up as a trader this would be a different story coz they have fees.

[yfin]

If this is 'not for profit' i think that makes a difference as to whether the post is commercial.

But the original post said nothing about you making these for 'cost'.

[SINISTR]

so what dp u have to gain by allowing to make these up for others here? r u saying ur not gonna make a dollar out of it?

traders pay a % of their profit(something like that) on a sale which goes to ozhonda, are u going to do the same? if u answer yes i can say right now if u were willing to set up as a trader this would be a different story coz they have fees.

what do I gain from this? NOTHING! So far its costing me $40 to have the moulds - do I want that money back? Not really as Im getting a set of fenders made as well.

Im offering these because Im a nice guy and these are very hard to get.

[SINISTR]

If this is 'not for profit' i think that makes a difference as to whether the post is commercial.

But the original post said nothing about you making these for 'cost'.

The original EOI post was deleted... but yes - cost of these is exactly what it costs me to have them made + shipping.

in the FS: section there was a cost+postage as well.

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE MONEY on THESE! - thats where this has all gone wrong!

[yfin]

what do I gain from this? NOTHING! So far its costing me $40 to have the moulds - do I want that money back? Not really as Im getting a set of fenders made as well.

Im offering these because Im a nice guy and these are very hard to get.

I think if anyone is essentially selling multiple items for free or at cost they should pm a moderator first - otherwise it looks commercial to everyone. Your post didn't explain the circumstances so of course it looked like a little business you have set up.

It does make things a little complicated though as it is impossible for us to police whether the sale is actually at cost or whether a business profit is being made.

So Sinistr how about you let us mods talk about your circumstances and come back to you? I can't promise anything - i am one of many and this is a democracy.

[bennjamin]

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE MONEY on THESE! - thats where this has all gone wrong!

This is nothing to do with money. Its rules.
This "all went wrong" when you decided to ignore the basic rules and post up a questionable thread.Once the usual results were in you then decided to question the Moderation of this forum for some unknown reason as your argument is not needed.

This all could of been avoided by PM-ing a moderator beforehand.

[SINISTR]

What seems to be questionable to you, is not questionable to me and perhaps others here as well - its purely Your interpretation - because im offering something as a multiple of one im automatically posting up a commercial type sale and should become a trader and that to me is wrong interpretation. I really dont know how else to explain to you there is no commercial nature of any kind in my 'offer' to the very few gen1 crx owners on this forum!

Dont worry about it - I don't care really... and will not be sending you PMs or other mods just because I have a question on HOW i should make a sale so it sticks to your RULES, seem no matter how I go about it I can't convince you of no-wrong doing anyway.. so whats the point?

[bennjamin]

What seems to be questionable to you, is not questionable to me and perhaps others here as well - its purely Your interpretation - because im offering something as a multiple of one im automatically posting up a commercial type sale and should become a trader and that to me is wrong interpretation. I really dont know how else to explain to you there is no commercial nature of any kind in my 'offer' to the very few gen1 crx owners on this forum!

Dont worry about it - I don't care really... and will not be sending you PMs or other mods just because I have a question on HOW i should make a sale so it sticks to your RULES, seem no matter how I go about it I can't convince you of no-wrong doing anyway.. so whats the point?
You have already stated you are NOT going to be convinced of the Terms and conditions - so really , there is no point to this thread :)
Your "offer" COULD of been substantial to the 1st gen owners or whoever , but because of the way you implemented it sadly you are digging yourself a hole...further by creating a thread like this.

Guys n girls READ the terms and conditions once in awhile :)
Pm a moderator IF you think your future post COULD be seen as borderline or even totally against terms and conditions.
The rules are simple ~ as quoted from rule #27


The "Parts for sale" and "Cars for sale" forums are provided purely for private use and no commercial posts will be allowed. A separate "Traders" forum is provided for commercial sellers. Ozhonda reserves the right to remove any posts suspected as being commercial at its discretion without any prior notice to the user.

EVERY single issue like this on ozhonda , seems to of happened because a member could not be bothered to clarify rules ~ they posted up , got the usual treatment by a moderator and then went in defensive mode since they know they are in the wrong. Yet its the moderator which is put in the spotlight :wave:
Im closing for now...if anyone feels the need for further discussion dont forget to either pm myself or another moderator and ask away :)

ben