Diffrence between CVT and ATF oil

[kimo]

I changed mine to ATF oil and when I went to the dealer they told me that I should have changed to CVT oil. I paid $14 for the ATF and the CVT would cost me $93. I changed it at 40K like the manual says but the dealer changes it at 60K.
so what is the diffrence and is there any diffrence in using ATF instead than CVT, and any danger using the ATF oil.

[aaronng]

Honda used to specify ATF for their CVT, until they ran into some issues with the CVT. Then they made new fluid specifically for the CVT. In Australia, I think we still use ATF for the CVT.

I think you can buy Honda CVT fluid for a cheaper price at the parts shop rather than from the dealer.

[kimo]

Will no one sells it only the dealer and it's $$$.
although I changed it at 40K like the Honda manual says the guy told me that he smelt like burn oil, and the dealer changes it at 60K which is really strange. Now I have ATF cooler and will change it every 10k just to be in the safe side.


Honda used to specify ATF for their CVT, until they ran into some issues with the CVT. Then they made new fluid specifically for the CVT. In Australia, I think we still use ATF for the CVT.

I think you can buy Honda CVT fluid for a cheaper price at the parts shop rather than from the dealer.

[aaronx88]

Hi Kimo,

You mean the new CVT fluid cost $93? Damn, this is very expensive and I might grab some from Honda Msia or Spore.

Why is Honda Australia still using ATF when other countries already used CVT fluid for a couple of months now :( The service bulletin did say not to put ATF-Z1 into CVT.

http://www.gillmanauto.com/webfiles/servicenewsjune05.pdf

Aaron

[racinghonda]

Our Jazz had its 40,000kms service last week and the dealership changed the CVT oil without me asking. I did think that it was a bit early but I think they are changing it early as a precaution now?

[vividjazz]

My CVT lost its smoothness around 22,000km. Replaced the fluid immediately and its smoother than it ever was. Hanny's said the specified service interval in the manual is way too long. I most certainly agree but then I also enjoy the optimum performance offered by changing my oil every 5,000km rather than 10,000km.

I look at this way. Whatever the price of CVT fluid its a lot less than replacing the gearbox.

[rollin_high]

yes honda has made a new cvt fluid called ( cvtf ),it has mainly been designed for the new hybrid '06' civic. Yes it is expensive because it hasn't been made in mass production in australia yet, it has to be ordered from japan.This oil has been designed for use in all cvt's but not esential,i would still use the old ATF-Z1 but i would recommend you change it ever 40,000km at the minimum.

[|N|]

u need to pm j.t. for cheaper oil man

[lokets]

Went into Honda dealer shop today (Brisbane, Slacks Creek) and found they have the new CVT fluid. I was quoted $85 for 4L. This is a fair bit more expensive than the regular ATF-Z1 fluid, which is $50 for 4L.

Nevertheless, I am going to use this "new" CVT in my next 120K km major service cycle (as per Jazz manual). My previous replacement was using only ATF-Z1 fluid's (@ 40K & 80K km).

The label on the back of this "new" oil says specifically that this is for CVT, while the label on the regular ATF-Z1 says for "Honda conventional automatic transmission". There you go... you decide which is best.

[SiNH]

So you guys reckon there is a difference between CVTF and ATF? Im asking because I just bought 4L of Penrite ATF MHP and was planning on using this for my Jazz.

I have always used Penrite and trust the brand and the spec sheet for the ATF says it can be used in CVT if engine capacity is less than 1.6L which the Jazz is.

[racinghonda]

^^ Don't you think that it would be best to use a lubricant that was specifically designed for the Honda CVT transmission? They did originally use ATF in there but went through the trouble of developing a lubricant specifically for the CVT transmission. I just don't think it is worth the risk. The CVT isn't a cheap transmission to repair . . .

[Joe kickarse]

It's always best to use the Honda CVTF for warranty reasons. I change mine every 20.000km for my piece of mind.

[aaronng]

So you guys reckon there is a difference between CVTF and ATF? Im asking because I just bought 4L of Penrite ATF MHP and was planning on using this for my Jazz.

I have always used Penrite and trust the brand and the spec sheet for the ATF says it can be used in CVT if engine capacity is less than 1.6L which the Jazz is.

The reason Honda CVT fluid was developed was because there were problems with the CVT gearbox when run using ATF fluid.

BTW, even for a traditional AT box, Honda ATF is the way to go, not aftermarket. Too many friction problems.

[SiNH]

I see I see. My 2005 Jazz isnt under warranty anymore so thats why Im doing the servicing myself.
According to the Penrite website it says it exceeds the Honda ATF-Z1 specification.

Damn thing, I already bought the 4L bottle of Penrite so I think Ill drop that in and see how it goes, if its not shifting properly then Ill dump it and put in the genuine stuff.

I do find it hard to believe that Honda dealers are going to put in $90 of CVTF in servicing when they can use the regular ATF for about $20 for 4L. Unless of course there are complaints but I am in the belief that the dealers are going to do whats best for their pockets.

Pesimist I am ;)

[aaronng]

I see I see. My 2005 Jazz isnt under warranty anymore so thats why Im doing the servicing myself.
According to the Penrite website it says it exceeds the Honda ATF-Z1 specification.

Damn thing, I already bought the 4L bottle of Penrite so I think Ill drop that in and see how it goes, if its not shifting properly then Ill dump it and put in the genuine stuff.

I do find it hard to believe that Honda dealers are going to put in $90 of CVTF in servicing when they can use the regular ATF for about $20 for 4L. Unless of course there are complaints but I am in the belief that the dealers are going to do whats best for their pockets.

Pesimist I am ;)
There were complaints about the CVT when using ATF. Hence the reason for the CVT fluid being available now. That's also the reason why the 2008 Jazz comes in auto and not CVT anymore.

[lokets]

There were complaints about the CVT when using ATF. Hence the reason for the CVT fluid being available now. That's also the reason why the 2008 Jazz comes in auto and not CVT anymore.

Yes, I can confirm that, I've used regular Honda ATF before in my 2003 Jazz CVT before it started to give jerkiness problems. Then I switched to the more expensive CVT-only fluid & that problem went away. I know it is expensive, but do use the genuine, expensive Honda CVTF, because if the CVT gets damaged, it is very expensive to repair. Yes, I agree too that's probably one reason why Honda 2008 Jazz goes the way of regular 5-speed auto boxes.

[Toli]

My CVT lost its smoothness around 22,000km. Replaced the fluid immediately and its smoother than it ever was. Hanny's said the specified service interval in the manual is way too long. I most certainly agree but then I also enjoy the optimum performance offered by changing my oil every 5,000km rather than 10,000km.

I look at this way. Whatever the price of CVT fluid its a lot less than replacing the gearbox.

I had mine changed for about $75 at the 20k service. With all the issues out there I was a bit concerned so for that little bit extra cost will help mitigate the issues with the CVT.

Coming up to 30k now and touch wood, no issues with the CVT.

[kimo]

You have to use CVT oil. I used to use ATF oil and I end up buying new gearbox.