CAI sound question

[lamwaiyin]

i am now considering geting K&N or INJEN. Most of the people think they are quite simliar. i jsut want to know which one is louder?
i don't want to get one which is too loud ...a deep tone is good but not ear drum breaking noise.
thanks~!

[Mr_will]

i am now considering geting K&N or INJEN. Most of the people think they are quite simliar. i jsut want to know which one is louder?
i don't want to get one which is too loud ...a deep tone is good but not ear drum breaking noise.
thanks~!


youre not likely to get anything ear drum breaking from either of those. they will be noticably louder, but its more the change in tone that you will notice, much much deeper on WOT

[stephen8512]

they are very similar the K&N and INJEN. its hard to say which is louder.
at idle, u cannot hear it at all and when driving normally (shifting at <3000rpm), it sounds very very very close to a stock airbox
its only when u give it and put the pedal to the metal that u really hear the CAI.
at WOT, the higher the revs go, the louder the CAI becomes
i floored it near my friends house and he thought it was a rexy LOL

[mugen88]

Normal driving you will not hear much it is only after acceleration after 4000rpm it is noticable. Its not like a exhaust system but gives a nice deep roar in the high revs range.

[lamwaiyin]

o thx guys......
for me this kind of newbie...it is good to have such forum so i can get professional advice from others! hehe

[amato2]

i hav to say though depending on how u setup your system, the CAI can sound a bit farty.....talking from experience...

[badthing]

I just bought Injen CAI and look forward to installing it in the next few weeks.

[coyote]

In my opinion the Injen is too expensive. I have the K&N ful CAI in my 05 Luxury and LOVE the sound! Under load, and at around 4000+RPM, she really howls. Perhaps you need to check out both in the flesh. What area are you in? I'm sure someone would be willing to take you for a spin around the block...

[xtercii]

Injen sounds crazy, you cannot wipe the smile off your face after the first few days of installation...

[stephen8512]

i agree with xtercii but of course i am biased as i have the injen
im sure the K&N is just as good and just as loud. whichever one u go for theyre both awesome

[badthing]

I can't wait.. installing it after the service next week.
Anyone know if wet weather affects the CAI in performance/sound?

[coyote]

I can't wait.. installing it after the service next week.
Anyone know if wet weather affects the CAI in performance/sound?

I've not noticed any lag in performance (with the K&N), however I'm always wary of driving too hard in the wet. Just don't try driving through puddles!

[lamwaiyin]

i am living in melbourne.......parkville...anyone around there? lol

[yfin]

i am now considering geting &N or INJEN. Most of the people think they are quite simliar. i jsut want to know which one is louder?
i don't want to get one which is too loud ...a deep tone is good but not ear drum breaking noise.
thanks~!
I think they are both very loud at wide open throttle - especially high up in the rev range.

Seriously, any of you guys with the K&N or Injen - can you hold a conversation speaking normally within the cabin at WOT? I think not.

[exISeuro]

When my Injen was installed, i had a habit of drowning out my gf when she was nagging or saying things i didnt want to hear :)

Iamwaiyin: i have a 2mb .mpeg from outside of the car.
PM me your email address if you want it.

[Chris_F]

if you're at all worried about noise, go for the comptech icebox. The injen and k&n intakes have a nice sound to them but if you dont want something that becomes intrusive at WOT and higher rpm like others have mention maybe give it a miss.

That being said, most pod intakes on the euro can be damn quiet if you avoid WOT and just drive conservatively, don't think they will be loud ALL the time, but they will be pretty damn loud when your giving it some stick.

[stephen8512]

^ exactly
its quiet as a mouse if cruising normally and conservatively.
and also, do a search on the injen/K&N as this has been covered to death, resurrected, and to death again

[mugeneration]

You can have a perfectly normal conversation under normal driving conditions, but when you give it a bit it can be just loud enough to drown out normal conversation, but its not too loud.

My old man thought i was an idiot playin with the air filter til he heard the sound hehehe.

[xtercii]

if you consider cai too loud, how can you even live with an exhaust...honestly cai is nothing it just makes your car sound better and angrier...
another funny thing, do you guys actually have conversations when you are full giving your car a go? I found when me or my mates thrashing our cars, we somehow stop the conversation automatically..

[Chris_F]

if you consider cai too loud, how can you even live with an exhaust...honestly cai is nothing it just makes your car sound better and angrier...
another funny thing, do you guys actually have conversations when you are full giving your car a go? I found when me or my mates thrashing our cars, we somehow stop the conversation automatically..

on the accord euro at least, the majority of exhaust systems on the market are actually a lot quieter than the K&N/Injen intakes at WOT (particularly in mid to high rpm). Off WOT at anything below 4krpm or so, you won't hear diddly squat.

its true about not holding a conversation if your flogging the car though haha

[kam]

injen sounds similiar to a super roo wr ex

there are some sound clips floating around the net

[aaronng]

No way it sounds the same.... the injen CAI's sound is an induction noise, while the WRX sound is from the exhaust headers setup (purposely done to give that sound.

[yfin]

I found when me or my mates thrashing our cars, we somehow stop the conversation automatically..

Using full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear around town isn't exactly flogging the car. You need to sit inside the cabin of the Euro to see how loud these intakes are - I went for the Icebox for this very reason (as well as being more discrete in the engine bay).

[aaronng]

I'm still waiting on my Apexi power intake... It's going to be an SRI and I'll make an enclosure from aluminium. I wonder if the vacuum pulses from the pod would make the enclosure vibrate and give off a tinny sound.... Going to rivet the enclosure so it is tight, and put rubber edging on all sides that come into contact with the chassis.

[h22a accord]

if you consider cai too loud, how can you even live with an exhaust...honestly cai is nothing it just makes your car sound better and angrier...
another funny thing, do you guys actually have conversations when you are full giving your car a go? I found when me or my mates thrashing our cars, we somehow stop the conversation automatically..


the guy and the girl on tokyo drift have a normal and quite relaxed conversation when they are all drifting in uinsen down the mountain lol.

back on topic though, i agree, with you when the conversation stops when u are WOT as the driver is usually ( or should be ) giving the driving task at hand his full concentration and attention.

[chris_greek]

he guys iv brought a Blitz super power air filter for $40 off my mate...they retail at $170 i heard...are these good like comparing to a k&n or INJEN, iv heard my blitz will sound loud wen i go to fit it. im also buying a cai system from ebay should look and sound great when its all fitted,
by the way what does" WOT" mean..????? somebody explain

[destrukshn]

WOT = Wide Open Throttle.

[twing]

WOT = push the right foot all way down.

[chris_greek]

lol ohhh it all makes sence now

[Omotesando]

I'm still waiting on my Apexi power intake... It's going to be an SRI and I'll make an enclosure from aluminium. I wonder if the vacuum pulses from the pod would make the enclosure vibrate and give off a tinny sound.... Going to rivet the enclosure so it is tight, and put rubber edging on all sides that come into contact with the chassis.


Are you going to order the same APEXi one for the JDM Honda Accord Wagon ? I presume there is no metal pipes whatsoever, only the right size adapter and perhaps a simple brace and nuts?

I'm still trying hard to decide which intake to use. Problem with choosing:

1) Injen CAI - Loss of low torque. Expensive. Too hard to clean if used CAI style. Waste of money used as SRI.

2) K&N Typhoon CAI - similar to Injen. Filter too hard to take out and clean behind bumper. CAI filters gets dirty too quickly. I guess that 'rain cover' could be put to good alternative use, provided the latest typhoon kit with that inverted funnel filter comes with one compatible?

3) Comptech Icebox - that original foam filter wouldn't filter out jack, not to mention lack of surface area compared to a weaved cotton or even weaved stock paper filter. K&N Panel replacement, needs reseal (and going to cost me more money).

4) APEXi filter - can't reclean, need to buy replacement filter. Granted its only $70-75 in Japan plus shipping. Best filter in terms of filtering as well as power in my opinion, except for being slightly too small.

5) K&N filter - can reclean easily. But doesn't filter overly well (still better than a foam filter however). Bigger size available.

6) Simota - doesn't filter that well around the 'gaps' rather than the filter element itself.



I think I'll end up going SRI of some sort, but won't make a heat shield (too much trouble for DYI), but just some kind of cold air intake pipe. The thing is, negative pressure builds up for every length of piping or air box/shield, unless it has positive ram air which cancels it out or even give it more positive pressure. But Ram air or CAI air might make the computer go haywire?

Yet without heatshield (but with more air available) the hotter engine bay's air will lower performance. So I just intend to cancel the heat out with some fresh air, I mean as long as the air being sucked in isn't 60-80 degrees?

So bloody hard to make the final decision :(

[yfin]

Good post Omontesano - not sure if this helps you - but the deciding factor for me was noise. Both SRI and CAI are loud at WOT and with a car like the Euro that needs revs to move along nicely - that is very often.

I ended up going for the icebox - you probably don't get the same power up top - but you don't lose down low as much. People with the icebox vs CAI are getting similar 1/4 mile times (around 15.4-15.5)- so it is not as if the CAIs are noticeably out in front on the strip.

Re the stock Unifilter - I don't think it is a problem if you change your engine oil regularly. I cleaned my air filter regularly at home (every 3000kms or so) and it definately appeared to be trapping particles nicely.

Peekay34 convinced me to try the ITG filters from http://www.fuelsaver.com.au/itg.php

These people also fitted a stencil to my icebox (glued to the lid) so now any panel filter seals perfectly (for $30). The ITG filter cost $150 which isn't cheap but isn't something you need to change down the track. I can't say the ITG filter made any major difference to power over the Unifilter - but now I have the comfort that I am using one of the best filters in the market (triple filtration) and the box is sealed nicely. Even with the ITG filter my Icebox setup costs about the same as the Injen.

[Chris_F]

Omotesando, if you're leaning toward a SRI with no heat shielding, my advice would be to scrap that idea and go with a panel filter set up. Like yfin pointed out the comptech icebox is great value for money and performs very well. And the negatives you mentioned can be easily fixed.

Someone in the states tested a injen CAI and comptech icebox back to back on the same dyno and there was a slight edge to the icebox.

You always hear of CAI's and pods making more power than panel filters, but IMO a lot of the time it's hype generated by the various manafacturers.

My second vote would go to the Apexi filter, but only if you can bothered to have some heat shielding fabricated or to make some yourself. I've also heard these things filter really well. Heat soak is going to be a problem though without the heatshielding so if you can't organise that i think comptech is the way to go (afterall it's a similar design to mugen and they know what they're doing most of the time)

[Pumped]

:D
Injen sounds crazy, you cannot wipe the smile off your face after the first few days of installation...


:p couldnt agree more :o

[BiLL|z0r]

3) Comptech Icebox - that original foam filter wouldn't filter out jack, not to mention lack of surface area compared to a weaved cotton or even weaved stock paper filter. K&N Panel replacement, needs reseal (and going to cost me more money).

I'm interested in this comment. Does the K&N panel filter only require a reseal when in the icebox? Does it fit perfectly in the stock air box?

[yfin]

I'm interested in this comment. Does the K&N panel filter only require a reseal when in the icebox? Does it fit perfectly in the stock air box?

It is only an issue for the icebox lid. If you place some panel filters into the top of the icebox lid you can see in one or two sections a few tiny gaps in the corners (ie milimeters) that air could still flow through unfiltered into the engine. It is minimal to say the least.

That said, it does seem to be a manufacturing issue that varies. When I took my lid to fuelsaver for the stencil to be made (mentioned above) they said the gaps were not as visible compared to Peekay34's icebox lid. So it could either be a batch issue or Comptech have made changes to the lid.

Either way, it doesn't cost much to put some weather strips on the inside of the Icebox lid (or make your own stencil). Even a few layers of gaffa tape stuck to the edges of the Unifilter (the black part) would seal the filter (but I was looking for a solution that was fixed and permanent).

[Omotesando]

If the Icebox is better on the dyno as well as on the drag strip compared with the Injen then it surely sounds promising.

Look, to be honest I'm not really completely convinced that the ITG filter is the best interms of both filtering and power - this quote from the fuelsaver website (which sells the expensive Hi-Clones too) seems to imply that some SMALL dusts are still allowed through in order to give air flow? : "By using various thicknesses of finer or coarser foams, our designers can vary the above factors to achieve the optimum for each application. It has shown the small quantities of dust particles smaller than 10 microns have no significant effect on engine wear, so the materials used in our range of filters have been carefully selected to give good air flow capacity, excellent load-up tolerance, and high efficiency whilst avoiding unnecessary extraction. Where high dust flow rates are possible, we tailor the filters to arrest even the slightest dust."

Anyway Flow vs Filtration are indeed opposites of each other in a sense so you have to give or take either way. That is why I think total surface area of the filter (either with pod, and also with the weaving-wavey design) would be more very important for flow. And with more flow due to a larger surface area, obviously the amount of dirt that comes thru is also higher. So if both filters filtrated the same amount of dust (not in terms of cm^2), obviously I would go for the one with better air flow? I guess in N/A cars as long as there is no pressure drop for that kind of power application, then there is no point in using a better air flow filter though because it just won't suck in anymore. The only exception is when its installed to have RAM air of course?

Look I know ITG are used on some F1 cars but these cars only have a certain kms quota to run compared to road cars? And BMC which is a cotton-gauze type are also used on other F1 cars.

There is an interesting indepent MX-5 owner's test here that I just looked up:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Its interesting. The air flow, filtration and pictures of the various foam, cotton-gauze, fibrous and paper filters tested, etc,.


However, one of the same AMSOIL Two Stage filters tested above which did only average and below the K&N's filtration and even flow wise seems to have come out better here: http://www.oilsandlube.com/dustk&n.htm

Although I would argue the later test is skewed. Why do I say that? Its because with oiled foam filters - if it isn't used for long enough then the initial dust wouldn't have gotten past the initial layer or 2. It takes time and kms for dust to get 'sucked' through the holes within the foam filter to the last barrier - but once it does, the dust that then gets sucked through becomes constant, well until it becomes more clogged. As such, a laboratory testing of the filtration by a foam filter is only buying on time, unless its been sucking for 1000 hours or something.

Whereas with Cotton-Gauze (K&N) or Paper or Fibrous (APEXi) the amount of dust that is sucked through throughout its life time from start to finish should be more constantly predictable. Foam will filter better at the start of the cycle, but should filter less (per cm^2) as soon as the critical level is reached.

That is why I kind of prefer APEXi (fibrous) the best. Good filtration and air flow? Unless we can somehow fit a paper 'pod-filter' which is cheap but good. Steal one from an S2000? :)

[yfin]

If the Icebox is better on the dyno as well as on the drag strip compared with the Injen then it surely sounds promising.

>

I don't think the icebox is better - I just don't think it is noticeably worse on the strip. As for filters - there is some more info on the trifoam itg here

http://www.itgairfilters.com/content2.asp?section=trifoam

I am not in a position to tell you which filter is best. I can see that the ITG is better than the uni filter given the different levels of foam. In any event, I change my engine oil frequently enough to know that the ITG filter is more than good enough. I was going to try and buy the K&N filter when I was in the USA as it is so damn cheap there - I just forgot about it (under $40US).

Damn, i think we are offtopic now.

ps... it will be interesting to see what the local hondatech team come up with in terms of intake for the stage 4. I wonder how/why they believe they have out engineered the other racing manufacturers of existing intakes (injen, k&N, mugen, gruppe M, etc!). A new header and exhaust is one thing but jesus there are so many intakes for the cl9. Why couldn't they just pick an existing intake that already has plenty of r&d behind it - and just tune for that? I guess that is a discussion we can have once it is released.

[as001]

found this on youtube thought i would share
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0KM8UpfJBY&search=tsx

[enkay]

thats the short ram aem one.. its from temple of vtec =D

[curik]

Go get injen, the new version is slightly better than the RD. Sound is definetely addicting and gains are noticeable at mid-high rpms. Try going in a tunnel and WOT, it feels like you are driving a totally different car. Downside? nothing. Loss of low torque isnt noticeable at all, the car is still powerful anyway. Hydrolock? In Australia where it hardly floods? U gotta be kidding. maybe less mileage for lead footing it so often!