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alan
07-05-2004, 02:59 AM
what would be the pros and cons of using a quad throttle body setup?

type one
07-05-2004, 04:18 PM
pros and cons on the street or track???

on the street... they are ILLEGAL...

Mitch M
07-05-2004, 04:19 PM
pros and cons on the street or track???

on the street... they are ILLEGAL...

you serious??!!/!

SIKCVC
07-05-2004, 05:27 PM
they are illegal why... and remember civics are illegal with b18c's but that doesn't stop people... so why are they illegal is there anyway around it? I'm sure there would be since all your origonal comonants are used... providing you use an inclosed induction system where air is drawn from outside the car it would be EPA approved? wouldn't it?

wynode
07-05-2004, 05:41 PM
Why are civic illegal with B18Cs?

madgrk
07-05-2004, 05:43 PM
They shouldnt be, a guy that Dave and I know used to own one. He got it all engineered etc and sold it. Obviously Vicroads must have approved it since the new owner registered it...

SIKCVC
07-05-2004, 05:55 PM
Thats what my point is... b18c's are illegal... until engerneered. Which means upgrading to at least slotted or EG6 breaks from what i understand. Thats their only issue. oh and if its an import it must conform to ausy regulations, ie turned into an ausy engine. Well thats what i was told by the engineer.

I thought maybe a similar cource of action could be taken with quad throttle bodies.

mooshie
07-05-2004, 08:07 PM
Quad throttles could be illegal cos they affect the emissions of the vehicle i suppose and also the trumpets would need to be enclosed for the EPA, anyone confirm or deny? just remember though just about anything can be engineered just might cost a bit of money and time to do it right

McChook
07-05-2004, 08:53 PM
Well you want the throttle bodies enclosed anyway, or else they suck in hot air..... and a power sock is restrictive, so best results call for a cold airbox anyway....

VTEC16
07-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Thats what my point is... b18c's are illegal... until engerneered.

Everything is illegal unless engineered.

mooshie
08-05-2004, 07:16 PM
Back to the point though, what are the pros and cons of the quad throttle set-up? do you lose low end torque but gain high end power? I thought that to get anything worthwhile out of them they need to be used in conjunction with higher compression cams and a higher rev range, if you already have these mods, then the quads can gain you something like another 15%- very impressive....
they also require an aftermarket ecu so i dont know if this 15% is inclusive of that which would make that figure a little less spectacular

TODA AU
09-05-2004, 09:08 AM
When produced & tuned correctly...
The gains in top end power are not so impressive as the massive gains in low end & mid range torque...
Example: 30hp increase in power @ 5000 rpm - B18C / Vtec killer / sprorts injection
Vs B18C / Vtec Killer / Type R intake manifold.
Total power output gain is only approx 10hp.
There are cheap Aussie systems out there...
The are blue & silver in colour & nothing more than cheap shit...
Stay away from these....

SPEEDCORE
09-05-2004, 10:08 AM
There are cheap Aussie systems out there...
The are blue & silver in colour & nothing more than cheap shit...
Stay away from these....

LMFAO!! You forgot to say they regularly appear on EBAY Australia. ;)

TODA AU
09-05-2004, 11:10 AM
Ebay… LOL… True, true…
Maybe because most people would be too embarrassed to try & sell them from a shop... ;)
The biggest problem with the cheap systems is the ability to get the idle down low...
As opposed to what most would think, idling is actually better with multi throttles than it is with a plenum intake system...
That is of course if the parts are of good quality...
The lower total manifold vacuum is the key… ;)

For those who are wondering here’s a brief run down of multi vs. single

Pros of multiple throttles versus Single throttle plenum systems
* Incredible throttle response
* Low end & midrange torque
* Tuneable length & diameters
* Excellent idle with large camshafts
* Ideal injector placement for optimum hard tuning - (TODA)
* Allows ideal head porting (TODA)

Cons of multiple throttles versus Single throttle plenum systems
* Incredible induction noise (I happen to love this sound LOL)
* When open to atmosphere, not exactly emission compliant.
* Difficult for some to tune… ;)
* Not cheap (Assuming quality parts)

b16a_integra
09-05-2004, 02:36 PM
just a quick question, if quad throttles are spose to be illegal, then how are you able to have a nissan pulsar gti-r on the road, as they have them????

TODA AU
09-05-2004, 03:24 PM
It's not that they are illegal for road use in themselves...
As you say, RNN14's & GTR's have them...
It's more the way they are applied is usually the drawback...
For legality, a closed intake system is required with a sealed air box...
This puts quads & a realistic, leagal functionality beyond the budgets of most tyre kickers & day dreamers...

b16a_integra
09-05-2004, 03:26 PM
ok then, so to make them legal, they gots to be in a sealed box, same rule as the pod filters?? they have to be in a sealed box, not just a pod in the open??

TODA AU
09-05-2004, 03:28 PM
Basically… Yes...

bennjamin
09-05-2004, 04:02 PM
Basically… Yes...

Also to add....

I do not know of anyone who would go through either purchasing an new setup or custom fabricating and exsiting setup....put more money into cams , springs , aftermarket ECU etc etc...and ofcourse many hours of tuning - to run a ITB setup on the street WITHOUT filter/induction box setup . . . :roll:
I have heard stories of boys from the states runnign similar setups on all sorts of Hondas etc- then taking it out for a run without the airbox/filter setup on for the roarty induction noise - and ending up suckin a huge lump of oil / dust / grime into the engine and seizing :) Woot ! An expenisve way to die :)

A'PEXi
09-05-2004, 09:22 PM
they produce a hell lot more airflow... i think you will need mods such as cams, full exhaust, and piggyback or replacement computer at least before you start upgrading to quads... i think they are also based more on motorsport cars rather than street driven cars...

mooshie
10-05-2004, 05:08 PM
but for a motor with upgraded valvetrain and cams they will make a fair difference obviously i mean, 30hp at 5000rpm is huge. an airbox or plenum for them would be fairly easy for any fibreglasser to knock up then just run a tube to your standard filter box with a high flow in there. just how much are we talkin with the TODA quads for the full setup and what exactly does this include? (injectors, fuel rail etc.)

TODA AU
10-05-2004, 06:50 PM
just how much are we talkin with the TODA quads for the full setup and what exactly does this include? (injectors, fuel rail etc.)

A complete TODA B16 / B18 Sports injection kit is $3500 shipped
Or $2200 without the throttle bodies... (missing item 5 in picture below)
It Includes the following components pictured...

http://www.todaracing.com.au/assets/injection_lego.gif

Injectors are not included...
Cheers

Adrian

trippy
18-05-2004, 07:48 PM
i have seen 1 of these in on a B18Cr in melbourne, and the engine was in a Civic Coupe, (EM1), the sound coming out of them are the best u will ever get from an induction point of view, can u imagine ur induction sounding louder tehn ur exhaust hehehe.
But unfortunately he didnt get teh chance to put in the rest of his set up before he crashed his car.
Im sure that some of the people from here went to the Auto Salon last year and saw this civic and heard, it was a huge crowd puller when it was put on the dyno and also the won the NA dyno challenge.
I love this system as long as people can set it properly and I have the change to drive the car, it was crazy and I loved it.