Wtfffffffffff Is This

[Mashimaro]

I NEED TO VENT MY ANGER. I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING. IF YOU GUYS SEE WHATS WRONG WITH THIS YOU'L UNDERSTAND.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/sp3rmi3zzz/farout.JPG

[bigjo5]

dude it would help if it shows the whole address lols
cant read the last bit..

[mugeneration]

missing something?

[destrukshn]

it ain't a smooth line?

[Mashimaro]

That Was Dyno Tuned Today And Thats The ****en Result -_-

[mugeneration]

you creased the paper so now itll look stupid if you frame it?

[jdm_kid]

its only showing torque?
and it looks so unstable low n crap ?

[Mashimaro]

and it looks so unstable low n crap ?

yeah something like that. tuner bodged the whole job -_- and then continue to blame it on my car. How is a smooth curve got to do with my car? His the fcuekn tuner its his job to smooth out the dam thing.

Btw it shows both power and torque but other half has the tuner store and i dont wanna advertise that.

I'm venting my anger not becoz its a bodge job but i aint a rich kid. I saved every single penny since the beginin of the year to get my ecu and this is the end result. Im now in debt 350 with a car that needs to be retuned from scratch.

Get this for a joke too. Although you cant read it on my graph it says max power is at 9037rpms but when you look at the ecu it says max rev is set at 8888 so how on earth did i max power at 9037 when rev limiter wont even let me go that far.

And at vtec there should be a power difference but on the graph its nomral bend -_- blahhhhhhhhhhh cars bodged...dont even want to drive it any more.

[jdm_kid]

what car u got ? ...

[Mashimaro]

what car u got ? ...

integra type r dc2

[destrukshn]

i'll say dc2r boosted.
that's a heap of torque!
something along, 220kw plus?
lol.

unless i'm reading the table wrong.
lol.
=/

[philBo]

bad luck tien...shouldve refused to pay them until they got a proper mechanic to fix what you paid for.

[mugeneration]

dept of fair trading...... or a similar type of organisation. There are certain standards to be expected from tuning, and it seems evident that either he has installed things wrong or has bodged it somewhere, perhaps your safety is at risk? Surely the car couldnt rev past its limit?

[Paul1985]

im with mugeneration, i reckon you could pursue this further. It may be possible that this could put your safety at risk

[EKVTIR-T]

wouldnt be pr@#ech would it?????

[Mashimaro]

wouldnt be pr@#ech would it?????

could be anyone.

[Mr_will]

wouldnt be pr@#ech would it?????


dude in case you havent noticed, even though the tuner has obviously ****ed up, this guy is still not publicly bagging him out (ie not revealing his identity), which is something i and im sure plenty of other people here, respect.

one thing this thread DOESNT NEED is n00bs coming along and turning this into a speculation about what happened/who did it etc.

the problem itself is between the owner of the car, and the tuner

[Mashimaro]

as Mr_will will said I'm not out to public bag someones workshop. We live and learn. I just needed to vent out some anger. I still cant get over it coz i waited half a year but owellz.

So since im thinkin straight I've got few question. Isnt the purpose of dyno tuning and after market ecu to smooth out the curves with power gain at the same time? If this is the case am i miss interupting the graph or is it tottally ****ed UP? To me it seems messed and the way the car performing is not what i expected but im not a tuner so i don't know if that graph is right.

[EKVTIR-T]

dude in case you havent noticed, even though the tuner has obviously ****ed up, this guy is still not publicly bagging him out (ie not revealing his identity), which is something i and im sure plenty of other people here, respect.

one thing this thread DOESNT NEED is n00bs coming along and turning this into a speculation about what happened/who did it etc.

the problem itself is between the owner of the car, and the tuner


nOOb???When did YOU join!!!!Chill the f@#$ out,this IS a discussion forum isnt it,dont have to take things so serious and be a hero.....:)

[Mr_will]

nOOb???When did YOU join!!!!Chill the f@#$ out,this IS a discussion forum isnt it,dont have to take things so serious and be a hero.....:)

wow, get angry much?

since you asked... you are a NEWCOMER, and I am NOT, I can confidently say that I have been here longer than you. that really isnt the issue, and even if youd been here 10 years, youd still be a n00b

People like you turn these threads nasty, the guy was talking about his dissapointment with regards to the tune. you were attempting to turn it into a personal attack on who you THOUGHT did it. that is not the purpose of this thread, and in general is not a good idea.

try going through puberty, then coming back :D

if you would like to 'discuss' this further, feel free to pm me, but be a man and leave it out of this thread

[jdm_kid]

shoosh both of yous ... i've been here longer so has Mashimaro.
This thread should be moved into the technical section, as Mashimaro is asking advice / opinions why the graph is not smooth, as it can be a few factors such as the engine itself or the tuner etc.

[supernatural]

but more info on the car would help... :)

[supernatural]

but more info on the car would help... :)

[mugeneration]

for legal reasons he can't name the company. If you really wanna know, PM him. If it was posted up it would be deleted by a Mod so just settle guys, go have an eskimo pie or sumthin. :)

[EKVTIR-T]

A friend of mine had the exact same problem with his b16a at a "certain workshop".Thats the only reason I was curious.....;)

[CUL8R]

honestly the tune doesnt look THAT bad.
it spikes alot - tuner didnt bother to put smoothing on, this arises just from the dyno itself, how well it spins ect, much more detailed then that.
Power past ur ecu rpm - bad calibration, will arise from the factory tacho being off.
the no large increase in power due to high cam(vtec) - this is due to him doing a good job on the crossover rpm, idealy u dont want a sudden jump of power.
Getting an ecu aint all about gaining power, its about gaining drivability, how does it drive on the street? and i am serious, unless u got some stage three toda cams or some hardcore shit u dont want a jump in power due to high cam crossover.
Show us a pic of the AFR, hows about base vs final tune graphs and then i shall make a decision.

[Mashimaro]

honestly the tune doesnt look THAT bad.
it spikes alot - tuner didnt bother to put smoothing on, this arises just from the dyno itself, how well it spins ect, much more detailed then that.
Power past ur ecu rpm - bad calibration, will arise from the factory tacho being off.
the no large increase in power due to high cam(vtec) - this is due to him doing a good job on the crossover rpm, idealy u dont want a sudden jump of power.
Getting an ecu aint all about gaining power, its about gaining drivability, how does it drive on the street? and i am serious, unless u got some stage three toda cams or some hardcore shit u dont want a jump in power due to high cam crossover.
Show us a pic of the AFR, hows about base vs final tune graphs and then i shall make a decision.

First off i thought the point of a tuner is too smooth off the curves? I could be mistaking but i was under that impresssion. Power past ecu rpm? Aint got nothing to do with the tacho. POWER FC is SET AT 8888 thats what its set at you can check by scrolling through the hand controller. Its obvious by readin the dyno sheet that is says max power is XXX@9XXX. I didnt show the rest due to legal reasons. As for the no sudden jump. And yes i am expectin a jump. There should be a slight drop at 7.2rpms as it jump to high cam crross over then a gain. I'm not stating mod but you can assume what you will why im saying this. As for power? well **** that was a total dissapointment. Both my friends dc2r got dyno'd same work shop STOCK ecu both have done, headers, exhaust, intake and thats it. I've done that and more plus a power fc thats meant to fully tune that and i got basically same figures as them.

Driveablitiy wise the idle was set way too low which was fixed by a second tuner inspecting the damage . Honestly speakin car does feel smoother but has way less power then it was before i tuned it. Top end revs drop out for some weird reason and there more and more. I can bitch all day.

[CUL8R]

look theres a setting on the dyno software to smooth curves. have a good look at urs heres wat it woulda looked like if he pushed the button
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/CUL8R/smooth.gifreally it aint bad.


ur friends prob suffer from hesitation on part throttle.u wont coz u got a non stock ecu
dude post up AFR and BASE/FINAL tune plots with the company blacked out with a square so we can see it all, this looking at one plot is very narrow minded.

i know my tuner well and i actually get a chance to sit in the car and speak to him as he works, u are never gonna get a perfect linear power curve like the smoothed pic i showed, but the smoothed pic is a good indication as to if its any good or not.

did ur tuner change vtec crossover? coz looking at it theres two clear distinctive gradient line of power, but i cant see what rpm it represents

[Mashimaro]

I don't have a scanner so i took a picture of the more significant section. Look i know the graph is jumpy because the second opinon tuner has gone through the power fc and told me that the figures that was inputted were all over the place.

I was really expectin 125-135 kws. I've had thiese figures in the past with different ecu (piggy back). Yes i know you cant compare different dynos. I'm just not happy with this at all.

We cant really say much without scanning the dyno sheet for you to have a look at.

Can you please Pm me ur tuner?

Secondly I think i'm going to get craig from revzone to redyno my car. His had yearssssssssssss of experience with power fc and can promise me 120+ figures with a smoother power band prior to adjusting cams.

If anyone has anything against this or have any recommendation on good tuners please pm me. I don't wanna fall for the same trap twice.

In the end result you want a car you're happy with, happy with the driveability etc etc. Car is underperforming for what i've expected but power isnt the main issue either just the top end is rubbish.

Oh i forgot to mention he didnt print out AFR ratio for me nor did he do base/final dyno. He said there was no point since its un tuned ecu -_-

[CUL8R]

PM SENT

the greatest line there was

Yes i know you cant compare different dynos.

i think the key here is to understand that and when making a big purchase such as an ECU is to not have too great of expectations.

i rekn the thing to look at here is base/final and AFR graphs, this is what tuning is all about, making a safer AFR whilst increasing power/torque and responce

[Q_ball]

honestly the tune doesnt look THAT bad.
it spikes alot - tuner didnt bother to put smoothing on, this arises just from the dyno itself, how well it spins ect, much more detailed then that.
Power past ur ecu rpm - bad calibration, will arise from the factory tacho being off.
the no large increase in power due to high cam(vtec) - this is due to him doing a good job on the crossover rpm, idealy u dont want a sudden jump of power.
Getting an ecu aint all about gaining power, its about gaining drivability, how does it drive on the street? and i am serious, unless u got some stage three toda cams or some hardcore shit u dont want a jump in power due to high cam crossover.
Show us a pic of the AFR, hows about base vs final tune graphs and then i shall make a decision.
are you serious man?!
NA power delivery is spose to be linear, hence a smooth power curve!
this one jumps around like its on spd - its not normal or tuned properly by any means.
my turbo graph is smoother than this, and my tune was only an average one!

[Mashimaro]

dyno graph update. only thing you cant see is ont he left hand side which is power.

[StrawberryFace]

My personal advice dude, change your tuner ASAP.

[CUL8R]

because there is a button on the dyno program which smooths the line out more.
i am gonna try and see if my tuner has my original final tune and then smooth curve.

a dyno gets a graph from voltages and junk, these figures do not come perfect so u need to have a line of best fit or somethign to smooth results. when u measure things like current drops over resistors or soemthing why is it that ull take 5 readings then average em? because ur reading will never be perfect unless u choose to spend excerssive money on accuracy. dynos are relativly cheap, 50k, to think they are gonna measure things absolutly perfect would be ignorance
this has dips over prob what i can see maybe 1hp over a 50rpm bracket, think about the scaling here.

[Mashimaro]

because there is a button on the dyno program which smooths the line out more.
i am gonna try and see if my tuner has my original final tune and then smooth curve.

a dyno gets a graph from voltages and junk, these figures do not come perfect so u need to have a line of best fit or somethign to smooth results. when u measure things like current drops over resistors or soemthing why is it that ull take 5 readings then average em? because ur reading will never be perfect unless u choose to spend excerssive money on accuracy. dynos are relativly cheap, 50k, to think they are gonna measure things absolutly perfect would be ignorance
this has dips over prob what i can see maybe 1hp over a 50rpm bracket, think about the scaling here.

dips in the wrong place. vtec is set at 7.2prms. Theres also a dip before 4 rpms that goes thru to 5 rpms for no reason. Uncharacteristic.

[yfin]

POWER FC is SET AT 8888 thats what its set at you can check by scrolling through the hand controller. Its obvious by readin the dyno sheet that is says max power is XXX@9XXX.

Does anyone know if there is margin in the fuel cut? I mean technically, can the ECU really cut fuel and stop revs rising to the exact single RPM - 8888? With the Apexi RSM on the Euro I have seen peak RPM on the RSM show above the 7300 fuel cut (eg a reading of 7420). The RPM reading has a direct wire into the Euro ECU so it should be accurate. I think with momentum at speed you can get the revs to rise beyond the exact cut point quite easily.

[Mashimaro]

Do you think its time to move this to the technical? Think its moved beyond my ranting now.

[panda[cRx]]

Do you think its time to move this to the technical? Think its moved beyond my ranting now.

done focker :thumbsup:

[CUL8R]

ok heres another addition for knowing technicalities with dynometers, people are looking at the results with too much a narrowminded attitude, not considering any important factors.

what mashimaro has given us is a picture of an elbow and asking us to say the girl is ugly. we need to look broader!!! we need to see more than one snipit before u can say this guy cant tune!

http://www.mainlineauto.com.au/products/brochures/HOWACCURATE.PDF

seeing the only thing there that i wouldnt be happy with is the torque hole at about 4500, but i say that assuming my AFR was perfect and i got a decent base/final gain

[CUL8R]

are you sure u dont have crossover at about 4500-5200???
u go out and push it and listen to the engine, check if at 4500-5200 u can hear the vtec solenoid click, then ull prob build oil pressure then high cam will propperly engauge?

at what point is vtec now? the tuner would have to of changed the point for tuning purposes....it does look like itll be at about 5200 rpm

[Mashimaro]

7.2 as stated.

Why on earth would vtec be set at 4.5? We tried settin it at 6 and it was dropping.

After tuning cant hear vtec at all now. I'm onli takin it off the power fc hand controller.

BTW i was told to keep revs down if knock reaches 40 by second tuner. Second gear full hammer its reached 35? Is that getting close to bad?

[CUL8R]

it all depends on ur high cam profile, my h22 had a great tune with crossover at about 4500

im gonna give up and wait so im not the only one arguing a point here, will check back tomoz coz its time to go to bed and this aint worth it

[DC2108]

poor you i would be PISSED !

[tinkerbell]

what gear was the run done in?

how does the car compare/feel/behave on the road?

knock of 35 is OK, and means the tuner kept timing adjsutments 'safe'...

[saxman]

it doesn't look that bad to me... yah, there's a dip in torque at 4kish that's less than ideal, but I've seen much worse.

the jaggedness of the graph could really be something as simple as what the smoothing was set to on the dyno output. A dyno output will never come out super smooth... there's always a certain amount of smoothing done in the software make the output "pretty".

There shouldn't be any jump in power at 7200rpm(which seems awfully high to me to have vtec set to, but that's just me) or wherever vtec is set to engage if the motor is tuned properly. A jump in power at vtec means the car is making less power than it should.

What really need to be done to show the quality of the tune is for you to show a before tuning dyno, the after, and an a/f printout, not a shot of sorta part of one graph.

Also, having a dyno show readings after peak redline isn't that rare... remember, you're spinning a big heavy drum, and accelerating it. It's going to continue to increase in rotational velocity after the clutch is disengaged... this is called physics.

[panda[cRx]]

it all depends on ur high cam profile, my h22 had a great tune with crossover at about 4500


mashi's running toda C's amoungst other things if i remember correctly

[Mashimaro]

what gear was the run done in?

how does the car compare/feel/behave on the road?

knock of 35 is OK, and means the tuner kept timing adjsutments 'safe'...

yeah its a bit useless when i cant show u before and after and also afr i realise now. He never did or gave me any of them.

How does it feel on the road? It feels smooth but feels less power then the stock ecu at the same time at high end power cars dropping out for some reason.

Feels and sounds like there no vtec.

[tinkerbell]

BTW - what "software" was the tuner using? also - has the tuner tuned spec C's before?

if he was just using the hand controller to make adjustments, then there is less adjustability compared to tuning from laptop software...

[Mashimaro]

Please closed thread as its pretty useless without proper information.

[tekling]

hmmz...
was ur tuner asian with bracers
lol

[CUL8R]

it doesn't look that bad to me... yah, there's a dip in torque at 4kish that's less than ideal, but I've seen much worse.

the jaggedness of the graph could really be something as simple as what the smoothing was set to on the dyno output. A dyno output will never come out super smooth... there's always a certain amount of smoothing done in the software make the output "pretty".

There shouldn't be any jump in power at 7200rpm(which seems awfully high to me to have vtec set to, but that's just me) or wherever vtec is set to engage if the motor is tuned properly. A jump in power at vtec means the car is making less power than it should.

What really need to be done to show the quality of the tune is for you to show a before tuning dyno, the after, and an a/f printout, not a shot of sorta part of one graph.

Also, having a dyno show readings after peak redline isn't that rare... remember, you're spinning a big heavy drum, and accelerating it. It's going to continue to increase in rotational velocity after the clutch is disengaged... this is called physics.

thank you saxman! finally someone who actually understands it when commenting!

[chunky]

fkin pic is fked