SAFCs and Cams

[Cold Fusion]

just curious are SAFCs and stuff like that universal? or do i need ones specifically for my enigne? (ive looked around and cant find any info)

and also with cams, im putting in some but if i turbo do i need cams specifically for turbo? because on the crower website there are cams specifically for turbo...and i dont wanna have to buy new ones :S

Thanks for ur help ;)

[crazyEG]

SAFC is universal....so all you need is wiring manual for your model car and your set to install.

[Twincam16]

Cams, depends on the turbo application you want... standard cams should be good for standard 5-8psi boost. If you want to do a larger application and go for more power then dont waste money on cams now, price:kw not worth it if you are going to turbo later on...

[jimmeh]

get a hondata its only $330 about the same price as that SAFC hack but heaps better

[Slow96GSR]

A base unit Hondata is $330 but to get the full kit, installation, and tuning is a lot more. And it depends on which one he gets. Hondata and the AEM EMS are the best with the Greddy E-Manage and chipped ecu’s right behind them and last is the SAFC and VAFC systems. I know there are more but those come to mind right off. As for cams you can get any of them you want as long as you follow the instructions that are on the site and that come with the cams. Some need different springs and retainers and sometimes valves. A few even recommend an aftermarket ECU. What car are you doing this in, Y/M/M?

[Cold Fusion]

...hondata..isnt that like 1.4 grand or something? thats a complate ECU

and i already have brought cams for my car, there crower 403's but after lookin on the crower website i saw they had speciffic turbo cams :S which i dont understand and so i dont kno if my cams will work wiht the turbo setup...does anyone know?

Thanks for ur help guys :)

[Cold Fusion]

correct me if im wrong but isnt a thing such as hondata very exspencive? or is this another thing ur talking about?

also i dont think they make hondate for my car anymore :( are there any other good things? and could i get both SAFC and ecu? or does the ECU do everythign the SAFC does?

Thanks

[Cold Fusion]

"What car are you doing this in, Y/M/M?"

i have a 1990 honda da9 integra wiht a few mods-

Intake
exaughst
just rebuilt engine- with stock components (engine swap)

Soon to be-
Crower 403 cams
Crower retainer and spring Set
Crower Cam Gears
Headers

and down the track i do want to think about turbo...does anyone have any suggestions?

[crazyEG]

b-pham has a turbo kit for sale

[crazyEG]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41519&highlight=turbo+kit

[Cold Fusion]

that WOULD be very good but my car has a B series engine in it (b18a) i WOULD get it though but it wouldnt fit :\

[CUL8R]

if ur gonna go boost then u may aswell get a standalone ecu to begin with, dont waste ur money on the safc then having to sell it off cheap when u wanna go standalone.
usually when u go a turbo build alot of people choose to decomp the motor, so cams,pistons and all should be designed for that application, if u want to do turbo, start saving now, dont touch anything, wait till u get 6-8k and do it all in one hit.
u want to buy headers? why do that when u wont need em once u go turbo?

if u actually are gonna do turbo, think about things carefully so u dont waste ur money.

[Slow96GSR]

6-8k won't get it "all" but it's a good start. It all depends on how much boost you want and how strong you want that motor to be. If you are only going to run 10-12psi then a mild turbo cam will be good and the adjustable gears, then the basics for the intake and fuel, low compression pistons if you might turn up the psi, new bearings and a full stud kit. Then a ECU upgrade like a Greddy, AEM EMS, or Hondata won't hurt! If you are going higher, there are a lot of good write-ups already done... search them out.

Yes the AEM EMS and the Hondata can get into the thousands but how much more in a new motor if you blow it? The AEM EMS is 1200-1500 USD depending on sales and who you get it from. The Hondata starts at $445USD for the base s100 with boost and goes up from there. Hondata makes you buy each little option while the AEM EMS has everything preinstalled. Hondata also hates/hated OBD-II cars and they either had to get an OBD-I ECU and rewire some parts of the car or get a conversion harness. So the total cost of a full Hondata system can run up to $2200USD if you get everything for it and buy a new ECU from them.

Then there is tuning, make sure you have a reputable tuner tune it. It will need to be dyno'd once it's built. I have a friend down there that bought a CAI and a intake manifold and they threw in two dyno sessions, one before the mods and one after. That's like a $200USD freebie he got. People here in the U.S. don't do that! The tuning will make all the difference. Pay for the ECU’s and the tuning you will be sooooo much happier then if you don’t!

Well that's my $.02USD!!!

[Cold Fusion]

for the saving of 6 to 8 grand YEH lol i wanna trbuo soon, not in 5 years time, i dont want to run more than like 8psi anyway so stock internal setup would be fine (cept for the cams)

and i suppose i could just get the stand alone ecu instead of the safc first, but then i may as well get the tubo manifold and not get the headers...but then ill have to wait even longer be4 i can install ym cams and stuff :\

[CUL8R]

modifying a car is not just a matter of buying parts and putting them in, its about research and its about planning. if u plan out what ur gonna do ur gonna save alot of money!
why get a turbo cam and run it na while u wait for turbo? ull lose alot of power and be unhappy.

[Cold Fusion]

the cams i have now are NOT for turbo,
the ones i DONT have
62402T-2 Stage 2 - Turbo/Super Charger Special
Specially designed specifically for forced inductionapplications.
Features short duration, high lift for added cylinder pressure and good bottom end power. Requires kit #84162.

i have
62403-2
Stage 2 - Street/Strip package.
Most popular "all motor" profile.
Requires #84162 kit. 1000 to 8000+ rpm (15-18 hp).
Dyno Results

BUT i might be thinking about going turbo down the track, will the cams I HAVE NOW WHICH ARNT THE TURBO ONES work?

Thanks

[CUL8R]

oooooooooooooooooo
sorry dude my bad, i thought u were gonna buy turbo cams and put them in..sorry mate didnt realise u already had the cams ur talking about
do some research into the cams u have because like someone here has recently also experianced once tuned it made no difference at all coz he wasnt running enough compression to make use of the cams profiles.
ive seen one guy put skunk 2 stage 2 in his h22a and actually lost power so yeah read up about the specs and see if u need to bump the compression to make em usefull.

[Cold Fusion]

thanks mate :)

[saxman]

And it depends on which one he gets. Hondata and the AEM EMS are the best with the Greddy E-Manage and chipped ecu’s right behind them and last is the SAFC and VAFC systems.
I'm gonna disagree with you here...


AEM is quite a bit more capable of a set up... hondata is nothing more than a chipped ecu with a fancy name... it's just as capable as the other chipped ecu set ups because for the most part, it's the exact same thing... the emanage isn't anywhere near being comparable to a chipped ecu... it's almost as worthless as using an afc...



with a turbo, anything short of a chipped ecu is completely unacceptable... may work, but unacceptable

[crx88rb]

get a hondata its only $330 about the same price as that SAFC hack but heaps better

would be nice to get a hondata, but here in perth no one can tune then correctly so if you buy it its a waste of money. SAFCI or II FTW if you are staying n/a. also agree with saxman, if ya going turbo you need all new computer to run it, plus a million other things

[saxman]

would be nice to get a hondata, but here in perth no one can tune then correctly so if you buy it its a waste of money. SAFCI or II FTW if you are staying n/a. also agree with saxman, if ya going turbo you need all new computer to run it, plus a million other things
if no one there can tune a hondata correctly, how is the afc getting tuned?

[crx88rb]

hondata and afc are different. anyone can tune a afc. hondata is more complex and finer tune

[saxman]

either way, to do anything worthwhile on it, you need to get it hooked up to a wideband and such... tuning a chipped ecu with the proper datalogging set up is easier imo than trying to do the afc... Most people with afc's tend to just set 'em to what they think they should be, and go from there... to get anything usefull out of it, it's going to take as much, if not more work.

[Twincam16]

Agreed... also do some research into the best cam profiles/ecu management & turbo setups as a whole package and find out what people with similar setups have learned from their experience. Another way to go would be to find out the parts that people have used, tried and tested in their setups, what does and doesnt work.

Their loss is your gain...

[kyle]

Doesn't matter if your cams are designed for NA. You will still se a gain over a stock car with the same turbo kit*.

*with correct tuning

[crx88rb]

either way, to do anything worthwhile on it, you need to get it hooked up to a wideband and such... tuning a chipped ecu with the proper datalogging set up is easier imo than trying to do the afc... Most people with afc's tend to just set 'em to what they think they should be, and go from there... to get anything usefull out of it, it's going to take as much, if not more work.

once again we have no one here that can tune them as well or as much as they deserve to be.

[CUL8R]

either way, to do anything worthwhile on it, you need to get it hooked up to a wideband and such... tuning a chipped ecu with the proper datalogging set up is easier imo than trying to do the afc... Most people with afc's tend to just set 'em to what they think they should be, and go from there... to get anything usefull out of it, it's going to take as much, if not more work.
ok lets just break this down, what would u say the definition of a standalone ecu is?
an ecu which u can change EVERY setting as desired.
the s300 hondata unit is a standalone unit, sure in theory its a chipped ecu to a point, but it allows u to change everything with real time tuning. the s300 only requires a laptop and ur set. u can then use the lambda tracing tuning option (autotune) and the car will then tune itself, ONLY IF U HAVE A WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR replacing ur secondary factory O2 everything from there can be modified with some sort of confidence.
It can however be put on a dyno with a wideband (which ull need for any sort of decent tune using anything, piggyback/standalone ur choice) tuned, and kept at that.


the common misconception is with the s100 and s200 units, these will require someone with a romulator to burn eeproms to make changes. these come alot cheaper than the s300 but the problem lies with the tuneability as they do require the right software.

CRX88 there WILL be someone in ur state that can tune hondata s100/200 units, just contact james and he will either come up to perth for u or direct u to one of his shops.

[crx88rb]

yeah we had something like this going before with someone and agreed to come if we had enought pplz.....im not 100% on the story for it but we didnt have enought pplz at the time and so it never went ahead... but yeah, im not going a hondata :p im just saying we dont have anyone here to do it for us