Hid

[euro69]

does anyone know what kind/type of HID does the euro lux have????

[EuroAccord13]

The Euro runs H1 HID bulbs with a kelvin rating between 4000-4500 which is pretty much what most OEM are...

Is that what you are looking for or you are after other information?

A search of the forums might help you as well :)

[destrukshn]

the euro luxury uses D2S bulbs.

not H1, H1's are the standard halogen bulbs found in the bas model of euros.

D2S = for projectors
D2R = reflector headlamps.

[EuroAccord13]

Thanks for pointing out the mistake des :)......

[EuroDude]

Are the glass headlight assemblies the same for both the Halogens and HID's?

[euro69]

just after info on them.
after what rating they are...

[my_vtec77]

the euro luxury uses D2S bulbs.

not H1, H1's are the standard halogen bulbs found in the bas model of euros.

D2S = for projectors
D2R = reflector headlamps.

...That's what i was looking for. Thanks Des.:thumbsup: I still couldn't figure out what brand should i go for. But i just wanna spend about $300. There's heaps of HID kits with different prices on ebay. Confusing...:confused:

[clowdz]

I'm pretty sure if you have a Standard Euro (or any other car which uses H1 Bulbs) you must buy a H1 HID Kit. A D2S Bulb will more than likely not fit into the Halogen Projector Socket. A D2S Bulb will only fit the Lux or a Standard Euro with modifications.

Can anyone running HID's in their Standard Euro confirm this? As I'm looking to buy a set my self.. Also anyone that has installed these in their standard Euro, did they run a relay to the battery? If not, any problems?

[destrukshn]

I'm pretty sure if you have a Standard Euro (or any other car which uses H1 Bulbs) you must buy a H1 HID Kit. A D2S Bulb will more than likely not fit into the Halogen Projector Socket. A D2S Bulb will only fit the Lux or a Standard Euro with modifications.

Can anyone running HID's in their Standard Euro confirm this? As I'm looking to buy a set my self.. Also anyone that has installed these in their standard Euro, did they run a relay to the battery? If not, any problems?
yes standard euro uses a normal halogen h1. if you HID's on a standard euro, you have to get a h1 HID kit, and the D2S bulbs WILL NOT fit.
you don't need a relay to your battery, as it uses the power coming from the orignal headlight harness, which goes through a relay already.

[my_vtec77]

Thanks guys :) ... Have a look in this thread, the guy use X-clip to fit HID into housing. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29397.
And what's different between D2S and H1?? The light colour or brightness or something..?? I'm not sure.:o

[destrukshn]

D2S is from factory, they were designed for optimum output and lighting, and have a specific base. Though you can get aftermarket D2S bulbs, they aren't as good as the genuine factory ones;

where as H1 (or any other size bulb) is generic and usually not as good as the ones from factory. aftermarket HID's the colour can vary, depending what colour you want, where as factory ones around usually around the 4300k mark.

in the euro, you will not need a Xclip, i've fitted HID's in euro's before with no problems.
=)

[clowdz]

yes standard euro uses a normal halogen h1. if you HID's on a standard euro, you have to get a h1 HID kit, and the D2S bulbs WILL NOT fit.
you don't need a relay to your battery, as it uses the power coming from the orignal headlight harness, which goes through a relay already.

Awesome, so are you saying there is little or no chance of the HID draining too much voltage from the Car's Electrical System as the power for the original Halogens come directly from the battery? As I know alot of cars which use Halogen Headlights do not have the power coming directly from the battery and when you turn on the HID's there is a brief period where the voltage required to start up the bulb can cause damage to a cars electronics. Also, where do you usually mount the Ballast in Standard Euros?

[EuroDude]

Can you get an engineers certificate to cover aftermarket HID's from getting defected? Or are they illegal, even if you installed headlight washers?

[destrukshn]

Awesome, so are you saying there is little or no chance of the HID draining too much voltage from the Car's Electrical System as the power for the original Halogens come directly from the battery? As I know alot of cars which use Halogen Headlights do not have the power coming directly from the battery and when you turn on the HID's there is a brief period where the voltage required to start up the bulb can cause damage to a cars electronics. Also, where do you usually mount the Ballast in Standard Euros?
no.. even halogens aren't exactly connected to battery.
HID's need decent voltage to actually 'ignite', that's what the ballast is for.
but after ignited, it is said it runs at 35w, and halogens are 55w+
either way, it won't be a large load on your electrical system, it will run fine.

yes there is a brief period that the HID's do take a load, but that's only to ignite it, and if it does overload the system, the fuse will blow first.

where? i forgot where i mounted the ballast.
lol.

[destrukshn]

Can you get an engineers certificate to cover aftermarket HID's from getting defected? Or are they illegal, even if you installed headlight washers?
you also need auto levelling headlights.

eh you have a euro, half of em already have HID's, if the authorties pull you over, it's standard on your euro, half of em don't know.
lol.

[saxman]

If you want to install hid's, do yourself a favor and purchase some hid projectors, and replace the halogen units in the light. Yes, it's more work than buying an H1 kit, but the light output of an oem euro projector with D2S bulbs will be much better than the light output of an H1 hid kit in the euro halogen projectors.

Also, when using an oem hid projector you get the benefit of being able to use oem hid parts. Because H1(or any other hid kit meant to repalce a stock halogen bulb) is illegal in all of the major countries(Aus, Us, uk, japan, most of europe, etc), none of the quality oem manufactures make them. The only companies that do are very low quality chinese and thai manufactures. They don't last nearly as long, don't work as well, etc. It's not just the bulbs either... the ballasts really are an issue with the quality. It's not uncommon for cheap hid kits to need to be replaced every year or two. An oem ballast should outlast the car, and an oem hid bulb should easily last you 3-5 years with normal use.

Also, an oem halogen projector is not designed to focus the light output for an hid bulb. They're designed for a much lower level light output, and can be overworked with too much light. This causes lots of glare. Also, a lot of halogen projectors are designed to allow so light past the shield for sign illuminate, etc. When an hid bulb is used, the extra light from the bulb turns this little bit of light let past into tons of glare.


As for the wiring and such... on a car like the euro that has the option of hids, and uses a relayed wiring harness stock, you're probably fine without using a relayed harness.

While an hid set up normally runs at 35w, during ignition, they pull about 85-90w and output 23,000 v. This does put a lot more strain on your wiring system, and when a relayed set up isn't used, can melt wires and cause serious damage to the light switch. It's not as much an issue of overloading the system as it is the damage done by this sudden increase in power draw.
On a lot of cars, the stock headlight wiring just doesn't provide enough power to reliably ignite the bulbs. Especially with lower quality ballasts, you'll see lots of cars where the lights will come on, flicker and go out, or one will only work sometimes, etc.

Also worth noting, the stock D2S bulbs on the euro are 4100k in color temp.

[clowdz]

Does anyone have any pictures of Standard Euro with HID Head light Cutoffs? This will tell us how much glare is emitted from these Halogen Projectors as I've been told by a few people the luxury and standard euro's use the same projectors, just no auto level + washers. Correct me if I'm wrong though

[aka_NSX]

The only companies that do are very low quality chinese and thai manufactures. They don't last nearly as long, don't work as well, etc. It's not just the bulbs either... the ballasts really are an issue with the quality. It's not uncommon for cheap hid kits to need to be replaced every year or two. An oem ballast should outlast the car, and an oem hid bulb should easily last you 3-5 years with normal use.

I dont think only chinese and thai manufactures, this BellOf HID (http://www.hitechimportlighting.com/bellofhid.htm)is Japanese made, and the quality is very HIGH standard, even more expensive than PIAA, and I have been using this on my car for 2 yrs and never had any problem at all

[saxman]

I dont think only chinese and thai manufactures, this BellOf HID (http://www.hitechimportlighting.com/bellofhid.htm)is Japanese made, and the quality is very HIGH standard, even more expensive than PIAA, and I have been using this on my car for 2 yrs and never had any problem at all
bellof uses matsushita ballasts, which are an oem ballast manufacture. All you're using is an oem ballast, exactly as I suggested ;) To be fair, you're correct, there are a few(very few) hid kit makers that use oem parts, and just rebase a phillips or osram bulb, but you usually have to pay very high prices for them. Also worth looking at is color temp. Most kits are sold in rediculously high color temps. None of the oem manufactures make anything over 6000k(and even those are rare).

I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for them.


Halogen Projectors as I've been told by a few people the luxury and standard euro's use the same projectors
they may be similar but they can't be the same. hid projectors are set up for a D2S bulb, and have focal lengths accordingly. halogens are set up for an H1.

[aka_NSX]

bellof uses matsushita ballasts, which are an oem ballast manufacture. All you're using is an oem ballast, exactly as I suggested ;) To be fair, you're correct, there are a few(very few) hid kit makers that use oem parts, and just rebase a phillips or osram bulb, but you usually have to pay very high prices for them. Also worth looking at is color temp. Most kits are sold in rediculously high color temps. None of the oem manufactures make anything over 6000k(and even those are rare).

I'd be curious to hear how much you paid for them.



actually I paid $950 for my H1 in Japan when I was there, but for my H4 Hi/Lo I paid $1200.

[Omotesando]

The Luxury Euro's standard HID in fact is really glarey, even with the autolevelling.

I keep getting flashes all the time from cars in the opposite direction.

Then tonight, I had another Lux Euro follow behind me, and oh mine - the lights sometimes jump up and point straight at my mirrors.

Seriously, the HID design on the Euro Accord isn't that great. 1st of all too much glare. 2ndly it doesn't look all that good from far away, compared to an Audi or a BMW. And most importantly, the projector is too small and its design doesn't emit a lot of light onto the floor for an HID. Was next to a E46 M3 the other night, I felt like my headlights weren't even on!

[EuroDude]

Yep ive noticed that too, very often I see a very glary blinding car coming the opposite direction - 80% of the time its a Euro Lux, the other 20% are those BMW X5/X8 4WD's.

No other HID car has a glaring issue from my perspective.

[saxman]

actually I paid $950 for my H1 in Japan when I was there, but for my H4 Hi/Lo I paid $1200.
ouch


Seriously, the HID design on the Euro Accord isn't that great. 1st of all too much glare. 2ndly it doesn't look all that good from far away, compared to an Audi or a BMW. And most importantly, the projector is too small and its design doesn't emit a lot of light onto the floor for an HID. Was next to a E46 M3 the other night, I felt like my headlights weren't even on!
it's ironic that you say that, as the euro projectors are actually some of the better ones out there. The glare issue isn't really a result of the projector itself... possibly more somethign to do with the auto leveling or just an improperly aimed headlight(just because it has autoleveling doesn't mean it's aimed right to start with... you'd be surprised how horrible the headlight aiming comes from the factory a lot of the times... it's something that's supposed to be done as part of prep at the dealer, and generally isn't).

The projector really isn't too small... it's actually a little larger than average for an hid projector. It's certainly larger an e46 projector. Also, the light output from a bosch e46 projector is actually less than the euro projector, despite what you may be noticing.

How old are the bulbs in your car? They do dim with time.

[tanalasta]

Any idea how much it would be if I asked the dealer to replace the headlight units on my Euro with the HID unit?

[Atjo]

Any idea how much it would be if I asked the dealer to replace the headlight units on my Euro with the HID unit?

It's gonna be very expensive, it's better to buy it from car wrecker or ebay. I saw it in ebay last week.

[Atjo]

OEM HID on euro luxury is D2S 4300K & made by Phillips. You can change the bulbs using aftermarket bulbs or original from Phillips. With Phillips is way too expensive, they qouted me around $600-$650 each with 6000K is the max. With aftermarket i bought 8000K bulbs for $220 delivered from US (eagle eye brand from www.plasmagarage.com (http://www.plasmagarage.com)). There's a lot of aftermarket brand now and you can get it from $350 but eagle eye is reliable. My friend use it on his euro standard from 03 until now.

[Omotesando]

ouch


it's ironic that you say that, as the euro projectors are actually some of the better ones out there. The glare issue isn't really a result of the projector itself... possibly more somethign to do with the auto leveling or just an improperly aimed headlight(just because it has autoleveling doesn't mean it's aimed right to start with... you'd be surprised how horrible the headlight aiming comes from the factory a lot of the times... it's something that's supposed to be done as part of prep at the dealer, and generally isn't).

The projector really isn't too small... it's actually a little larger than average for an hid projector. It's certainly larger an e46 projector. Also, the light output from a bosch e46 projector is actually less than the euro projector, despite what you may be noticing.

How old are the bulbs in your car? They do dim with time.


Interesting.

The glare issue is there nonetheless. I don't blame the projector for the glare actually of course, it must have more to do with the auto-levelling because quite often you see it bounce up and down from far away, even if that road is quite smooth.

And the light output from the whole system is very low for oem HID equipment. I'll explain to you further down.

I used to sell HID equipment and some of the H1 restrofitted cars looks better from far away, as well as gives out more light. Funnily enough they also give much less glare, even with the lack of auto-leveling and non HID projector.

Anyway most of the people on here who complain about the lack of light output for an HID have just got their new cars or have always noticed it since the beginning. FYI my car is only 14000Kms old, so my HID bulbs are still quite fresh.

Regarding the light output, I have noticed that the BMWs and especially the E46s put their lights 'mostly onto the ground', and not only that - but their light pattern isn't completely 'even' and it has bright spots towards the upper edge of the projected light. When both lights overlap - it produces a very bright patch of more even light onto the ground a bit further infront of the car with a very sharp cutoff but not anywhere else. Most of the light output is concentrated there, just where you need it.

That is the reason why I say the BMWs are better, because it was a deliberate engineering effort (together with cornering adjustable aim lighting) to make it not as even but to have intense light output on a certain usable patch. Also due to this non-even light output reason (together with the HID Shield Cutoff which makes the light undergo defraction) - it looks quite white but with some blue around the edges from far away but is yellow/white when you're closer to the car. Kind of similar to a rainbow or prism theory. Whereas on the Euro Accord, from far away it always looks blue and sometimes purple.

The E46 headlight also has a much bigger border reflective material wrapped around the projector so it reflects most of the disarrayed light back to the floor. That means right around it in a circle, as well as some reflective material still inside the headlight casing. Its also more receded, compared with the Accord's which sticks out. If the E46 projector 'glass' size is smaller than the Euro Accord its entirely possible but overall the whole headlight is bigger than on the Euro. The glass on the E46 is also more rounder I notice when parked next to my friend's car. I guess it makes sense since the concentrated light intensity is higher on a smaller glass.

Perhaps in this sense, the Projector on the Euro Accord is better because the light output is very evenly distributed, but when it is on the Euro it is very obviously not working as well as the Projector is on the E46s or the E90s (different projector). All I'm concerned is with the end result.

The other thing is the 3 series design has Bi-Xenon Projectors as well, which can cater for High beam.

Overall I'm not very happy with the HID on my car. Its actually not as good as the one on the 2006 WRX's HID as well. :o

[saxman]

OEM HID on euro luxury is D2S 4300K & made by Phillips. You can change the bulbs using aftermarket bulbs or original from Phillips. With Phillips is way too expensive, they qouted me around $600-$650 each with 6000K is the max. With aftermarket i bought 8000K bulbs for $220 delivered from US (eagle eye brand from www.plasmagarage.com (http://www.plasmagarage.com)). There's a lot of aftermarket brand now and you can get it from $350 but eagle eye is reliable. My friend use it on his euro standard from 03 until now.
8000k bulbs have significantly less light output. Also, phillips bulbs aren't that expensive... You can get a pair brand new every day for US$75. Aftermarket bulbs tend to be much lower quality and a higher temp bulb will never last nearly as long as an oem temp bulb.


Omotesando...

The e46 projectors do tend to put a lot of the light right in the middle... but this results in really not the best beam width or lighting on the sides. In the middle, it's still really not that great though. The e46 projectors are actually considered one of the lower quality projectors as far as light output goes.

It's always worth mentioning that the e46 came with three different projectors... the bosch e46 singles(which I personally have), the bosch e46 bixenons, and the zkw bixenons. The e46 bixenons really have pretty mediocre output, the e46 singles are ok, better than the bixenons, but neither put out anywhere near the light that the accord projectors do. The zkw projectors are much nicer units, have a clear lens which allows a lot better light output, etc. The zkw projectors are, however, a very rare projector. They were only used on a few cars, with no apparent reason to selection of models.

The e46 projectors are all open projectors... no integrated shrouds... the euro projectors, along with most of the other stanley projectors(neither honda or bmw actually have anything to do with the projectors) are all enclosed, which actually results in more usable light being put on the ground and less stray light.

Also, having the projector set back into the headlight is actually less than ideal... this generally results in less foreground illumination(as parts of the headlight get in the way).


I can't really explain why you're all unhappy with the accord euro projectors, as they're really a very nice unit, and provide above average light output.


as for the 2006 sti projectors... can't say... I don't have any experience with them

[Omotesando]

There is no point is explaining only the theories unfortunately, as I've said before - the Euro's projector gives off even light as does the S2000's. But for some reason as a package it DOESN'T work that well.

The E46 in Australia at least, does give off better 'light in the middle' and actually even to the side of the car, the latter not because of the projector itself but due to the way the projector sits. So this is in contrary to what you said or you believe. I have compared it with my Euro side by side and I'm sure so have others who can tell that the BMW's gives off better light where its needed. Its not a barely discernible difference, it is a significant difference. I find that some of the newer Renaults have better front lighting as well, whereas the Subaru WRX and STI, which both have HIDs, have slightly more light on the floor as well.


I think what is very apparent with the discussion here is that you're only concentrating on the projector design, whereas I try to look at the overall package and the end result.

Also you mentioned : "Also, having the projector set back into the headlight is actually less than ideal... this generally results in less foreground illumination(as parts of the headlight get in the way)."

If you read carefully, I mentioned the projector being receded since this is very important and ideal when it comes to reducing glare outside the normal angles that the lighting should be controlled within. Which unfortunately the Euro also has problems aplenty.

If you study a 3 series BMW to the Euro Accord - I think you'll find that on the Euro all of the light source is coming directly from the projector. Whereas on the 3 series or even the X5s, you'll see that a a small portion of the light is from the reflective based material surrounding the projector itself. This also happens to make the cutoff light less abrupt as well and more natural.


Anyway, I have no doubts if the Euro's Projector is used on aftermarket retrofits, it will be a good investment compared to the E46/Audi TT projector.
Since in this case, the major concern is with the actual projector's performance more than the entire design.

By the way, I'm only heard of the E46's DOT approved projector as well as the European version (which is better from the sounds of it), but your single non bi-xenon one must be rare :)

[saxman]

If you study a 3 series BMW to the Euro Accord - I think you'll find that on the Euro all of the light source is coming directly from the projector. Whereas on the 3 series or even the X5s, you'll see that a a small portion of the light is from the reflective based material surrounding the projector itself. This also happens to make the cutoff light less abrupt as well and more natural.


Anyway, I have no doubts if the Euro's Projector is used on aftermarket retrofits, it will be a good investment compared to the E46/Audi TT projector.
Since in this case, the major concern is with the actual projector's performance more than the entire design.

By the way, I'm only heard of the E46's DOT approved projector as well as the European version (which is better from the sounds of it), but your single non bi-xenon one must be rare :)


The area around the projector is more of a shroud used for aesthetic purposes than something that actually outputs light(much light bmw's angel eyes). If you look at the shroud by itself and the material it's made of, you can see that it's really not there for output.

The harshness of the cutoff is actually a result of the projector lens. The accord euro projectors use a clear lens which results in more color at the cut off, and a sharper cut off... something that during driving can be a bit more of an annoyance to other drivers, not because it causes moer glare, but because there's more flicker while driving. The e46 projectors(which the exception of the zkw projectors, which aren't all the common) use a soft lens, which is quite dimpled for a much softer cut off. Earlier you mentioned the e46's have a fuzzy sides with a very sharp cut off at the middle. This is the result of on odd lens design which is soft, except for a small circle in the middle that is clear. This is only found on the singles(used by the earlier e46 bmw's and the audi tt).

[Atjo]

8000k bulbs have significantly less light output. Also, phillips bulbs aren't that expensive... You can get a pair brand new every day for US$75. Aftermarket bulbs tend to be much lower quality and a higher temp bulb will never last nearly as long as an oem temp bulb.

I was talking about HID D2S replacement bulbs on euro luxury not H1 halogen bulbs on standard euro.

[saxman]

I was talking about HID D2S replacement bulbs on euro luxury not H1 halogen bulbs on standard euro.
there are no oem manufactures that make an 8000k d2s bulb... they're achieved by either making 'em from scratch of lower quality, or taking an oem bulb, and coating it in a filter... both ways cause heat issues with the bulb and lower the life.

Also, an 8000k hid bulb, regardless of manufacturer, is going to put out way less light than a 4300k bulb as a matter of the physics of how the light is emitted and how the color is achieved.

[Atjo]

there are no oem manufactures that make an 8000k d2s bulb... they're achieved by either making 'em from scratch of lower quality, or taking an oem bulb, and coating it in a filter... both ways cause heat issues with the bulb and lower the life.

Also, an 8000k hid bulb, regardless of manufacturer, is going to put out way less light than a 4300k bulb as a matter of the physics of how the light is emitted and how the color is achieved.
If you read my post carefully, i said that the max for OEM Phillips HID bulbs is 6000K. The price is too expensive compare to eagle eye D2S replacement bulbs even with the same 6000K. I know 8000K have less light but everyone has it own preferences.

[saxman]

the phillips utilons(the 6000k bulbs) are a very small number run. It's not a common bulb, and were by no means cheap(usually sell for about $200US).

a 4100k/4300k oem phillips d2s bulb is not an expensive bulb... reading what you posted makes it sound like oem phillips bulbs are much more than they really are. I wouldn't be surprised if someone quoted you $600 for the bulbs, but that's not what they cost.