Best coilovers for purely track CRX (ED9)

[heist]

Hey guys,

just wondering the best coilovers for a purely track CRX.

wont be driven of the streets.

I have read about the tein SS ect and i dont think they meet my demands.

any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[aozora]

Hard as fwok coil-overs :)

TEIN RA series are good... but I don't think they make them anymore and I'm not sure what their replacement range is :( Cusco Zero-2s are ok rates but similar to the HAs and the JIC FLT-A2s... I'd want harder for a track only car :D Unless you're driving on a pos track like Calder or something :p
Don't bother with Flex/SS... the rates are too soft and your car will roll like a fat bitch on track with them.
On track/good surfaces, springs to resist the roll, on crap surfaces like Aus roads, swaybars instead to resist the roll but not too much of both, otherwise you may find it'll have a negative effect.... crap explanation but if it doesn't make sense I'll write more later when I'm not about to have a nap :p

[Kawasaki]

Cusco coilovers are dam good. I'm using zero 2's on my EF atm and are fairly stiff even on the lowest setting. If you are going to only be using it for track get the zero 2 R for an eg6 with pillow ball tops of course.

[spoondc2]

I think Tein RA doesn't have good aborbing ability on the shock and springs are heavy and not "responsive" as the current coilovers available on the market

Not sure about cusco, heard that they are soft too, by increasing spring rate will wreck the handling

KYB is good but doesn't make coilovers for CRX

I am thinking to get zeal since i am very happy about it performances, it will cost over 2k but you'll know it's worth it. If you could afford a Super function then go for it :D

[ekslut]

I think you will have to look at DC2 or EG6 coilovers. The range for EF/ED coilovers is very limited. Just keep in mind though that your car is a lot lighter than the DC2's & EG's so your spring rates wont need to be too high. A lot of the Jap coilovers come with very high spring rates.

I am looking at getting some Zeal Super Functions on my ED6 Civic which is a dedicated track car. They are a excellent coilover and are very light, but as mentioned expencive. I have heard good things about Cusco too. I have used HKS Hypermax before and I liked them. Thought they were very good as a street/track car, but I dunno about a dedicated track car.

I think though, if your building a dedicated track car you will have to look at the top of the lines for anything decent. The lower and cheaper coilovers are usually lacking in functions, specs, and are a bit softer for street use. Tein SS defiently wont be good enough for a track car.

[CUL8R]

ontop of a great coilover setup ull need:


*thick front and rear sways
*front and rear tie bars
*solid front and rear struts
*and poly bushings

sort that out and ull have a great sussy setup

as for good coilovers? buddy club, apexi, bilstein, zeal, HKS could be worth investigating. get something with a HIGH spring rate, im talking 12+ lol

[spoondc2]

Gotta think about the differences between jap and aus road condition too. I think 12-14kg on front and 6-10kg on rear will be enough for a lightweight FF car on the track.

[[ricer]]

ohlins.....?

[spoondc2]

']ohlins.....?

Ohlins, Quantum and Kyb are all very good but it's not popular in aus, ppl love tein coilovers here...

[ONE600]

what tyre are you gona run? you build ur sus to the tyre ur going to run.
buy all the branded parts you want, but dont for get about castor, toe, camber settings.

[heist]

most likely will be the Yokohama A032R tyres

[aozora]

I think Tein RA doesn't have good aborbing ability on the shock and springs are heavy and not "responsive" as the current coilovers available on the market

Not sure about cusco, heard that they are soft too, by increasing spring rate will wreck the handling

KYB is good but doesn't make coilovers for CRX

I am thinking to get zeal since i am very happy about it performances, it will cost over 2k but you'll know it's worth it. If you could afford a Super function then go for it :D

For a proper track car (which are on smooth surfaces so pot holes/abnormal bumps are not a problem anymore), you WANT hard spring rates. The current coil-overs on the market at too soft for a proper track application imo. Most now are below 10kg I believe as the stiffer ones aren't so popular here for obvious reasons.

Increasing spring will wreck handling? Please explain how.



ontop of a great coilover setup ull need:


*thick front and rear sways
*front and rear tie bars
*solid front and rear struts
*and poly bushings

sort that out and ull have a great sussy setup

as for good coilovers? buddy club, apexi, bilstein, zeal, HKS could be worth investigating. get something with a HIGH spring rate, im talking 12+ lol

If you get thick front and rear swaybars with high spring rates, you will see they will have a negative effect, as already the spring is resisting the roll... if you have thick swaybars as well, they will begin to lift the inner wheel which will create loss of traction and pretty much result in a poorly worked out suspension setup...
But brace everything in the chassis and lose as much weight as possible :) Sound deadening too (have fun with that ahha) :p


Gotta think about the differences between jap and aus road condition too. I think 12-14kg on front and 6-10kg on rear will be enough for a lightweight FF car on the track.

Umm this is on track, I think there's a world of difference between Aus tracks and the road... so I'm not sure what you're comparing here? Also didn't you earlier say that high spring rates will wreck handling? So why the 12 to 14kg spring rate recommendation? I hope you're not just saying anything that comes to mind...


what tyre are you gona run? you build ur sus to the tyre ur going to run.
buy all the branded parts you want, but dont for get about castor, toe, camber settings.

Have a good track setup and good slicks... and that's it I thought? I'm not sure how you can "build" a suspension setup to match the tyres? Care to explain for me? :)
And yeah alignment settings are important too so make sure you have all the appropriate bits and pieces to enable proper adjustment... camber and castor are your friends for track, then toe depending on how you like it to react, turn in, exit... etc :p

[heist]

thanks for your imput aozora. trust me it will be light...

i plan on getting CF bonnet, fenders, hatch (with plexiglass) and moonroof :p

im getting some dry ice for that sound deadening ;)

so ZEAL super functions are the go?

[aozora]

No problem :) It's rare seeing dedicated track cars... I hope it helped.

What spring rate are they?
Zeals are ok, haven't heard anything bad about them :D

[heist]

quote:

ZEAL Super Function Coilover
Black and blue with a super lightweight aluminum body and lightweight SWIFT springs. This is the top-of-the-line model amongst the Function Series. The shock's rebound/compression settings are made with the hard-user using semi-slick tires in mind. Circuit spec, aluminum DIV free piston stabilizes rebound/compression levels as well as increases life. Pillow ball mounts included. Spring rates are exclusive.

front Rear
(14 kg/mm / 10 kg/mm)

[aozora]

Sounds good :) Go for it :D

[Paul1985]

go for the zeals :D

i got zero 2's and only drove it once but damn it cornered well (along with a ITR rear sway bar).

These are great coilovers but there are even more expensive ones around such as zeal. Also check ohlins and a few others out.

[spoondc2]

The zeal coilovers comes with X-coils rather than swifts now and it's even better. I really hope that i could afford it :|

[spoondc2]

Yeah i do agree with you that on smooth surfaces so pot holes/abnormal bumps are not a problem anymore but what i mean is kinda refer to the track condition in QLD, it's not as smooth as you think so i will pick a coilover which works better on bumpy road conditions.

What i mean stiffer spring rate will wreck the handling is some coilovers meant to work in it's default spring rates, for example, you won't try stiff spring rate like F20 R16 on Tein SS right? Got a fd who used to have Cusco Zero 1 or 2 or something with default spring rates and he think it's too soft so he try to upgrade to F14 R12. And it makes the car bouncing like a kangeroo.

The more "advance" level of coilover could handle higher spring rates cos it's design for more extreme conditions and the spring rates i mentioned before will be fine and in my opinion i will choose a coilover which could handling bumps and higher spring rates and i think Zeal function X or even super function will do the job. 12-14kg on super function doesn't feel stiff at all, even on bumps.

Sorry to make you confuse and sorry for not explaning it clearly:angel:

[CUL8R]

yeah what aozora said is right. the key to a good track car is finding the right ballance, so if u find any good track setup ED9s u should check out their setups coz the sussy setup is the most important thing to a dedicated track car.
if u cant find one to work off it may cost a few $$$ mix and matching setups to suit ur ride. ive seen cars lower lap times by removing their aftermarket sways so its very important to get the right setup

[bennjamin]

remember your sussy setup can only go so far ~ at the end of the day its only as good as the tyres you are running :)

[ekslut]

Increasing spring will wreck handling? Please explain how.


Have a read of this thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2205&page=8&highlight=whiteline

This is from Whiteline themselves and what they have found with spring rates. Pretty much to sum it up, instead of relying on hard spring rates to stop body roll, you are better off using swaybars to control the body roll. That way you get a bit more compliance with the coilovers and you can acceive more grip.

This is a good example of how to set up your swaybar / spring rates:




Hypothetically.....
If for a given standard tyre, we need a certain amount of roll resistance, let's give it a value of 10 units.
These 10 units of roll resistance can be acheived by using either a spring, a sway bar or a combination of both.
Let's assume that the factory suspension has 7 units of spring roll resistance and 3 units of sway bar roll resistance.

Now, the car is fitted with a semi-slick tyre (more grip), which requires a higher value of (total) roll resistance. Let's assume this to be 14 units.

This can be acheived by either;
Case #1;
spring roll resistance of 11 units + sway bar roll resistance of 3 units = 14 units of total roll resistance

Case #2;
spring roll resistance of 9 units + sway bar roll resistance of 5 units = 14 units of total roll resistance

I think it is very clear which is a better combination.
Let us know if it's still unclear or you do not agree.

Regards,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive.

And tracks are not completly smooth. There are still a lot of imperfections in the surface.

[aozora]

Have a read of this thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2205&page=8&highlight=whiteline

This is from Whiteline themselves and what they have found with spring rates. Pretty much to sum it up, instead of relying on hard spring rates to stop body roll, you are better off using swaybars to control the body roll. That way you get a bit more compliance with the coilovers and you can acceive more grip.

This is a good example of how to set up your swaybar / spring rates:



And tracks are not completly smooth. There are still a lot of imperfections in the surface.

Whiteline's setup with soft springs, hard swaybars is flawed for track... and from experience, I've learnt to take "recommendations" by companies with a grain of salt :)
Whiteline's recommendations are almost unbeatable for daily driven roads but for track... I'd prefer something a bit more stiff personally, especially when you're running semis :p
And yes, with what he's said, what about pitch forward and back? Swaybars only control roll side to side, but not under acceleration and braking... so I obviously disagree to an extent. It's not a major thing but just means you have to be alot smoother with braking, accelerating and turning. Having heaps of nose dive under heavy braking... especially on a high speed track is quite nerving!

I've only been to a few tracks and the surfaces so far are absolutely great... so I don't know where you're going :p Oh wait.. unless it's Calder.. e-lolz. So it also largely depends on the surface you're driving on... preferably one that hasn't been raped by drifters :p And usually they aren't the best tracks in the first place anyway...
There are thousands of tuners who drive on proper well maintained tracks, who use quite high spring rates... do some research, especially on the Tsukuba tuner hot lap battles and find out the rates they're using, and some JGTC cars (might be harder to find though)... even the Touge segment in HV! Even Honda... stock S2000 spring rates aren't exactly soft? Simply put, you can't apply it to all cars/situations. But I would like to see another explanation/point of view :D

[ekslut]

Another quote for you :p This explains why cars like JGTC and other race cars run a higher spring rate.



One reason for running higher rate springs would be to control chassis movement very precisely due to very large aerodynamic down force (F1). This is where the chassis needs to stay within a few “mm” of its position with load changes in the order of 1500kg. Quite simply, aerodynamics in F1 is the driving force; you can get away with a bad suspension if the aero package works well. So racecars that run huge amounts of down-force (to develop they’re grip) require stiff springs. If there is no aero then there really is no need to use springs of such a high stiffness.


What was explained I think it makes sense. There is only so much your tyres can take. Why use the hardest springs you can, when you can use swaybars to do the majority of the job. And while you are correct in saying that you can acheive better handling using high spring rates, I can't see the advatage of using high spring rates over swaybars. I can only see downsides. And I see what you are talking about in the front-back pitch department, but I am not talking about stock springs here.

As an example I am planning on running 10kg at the rear and 6 or 8kg at the front. This is with decent sized swaybars: 22mm front, adjustable 18-22mm rear on a 88 Civic.

This I beleive this is the max spring rates should get on a civic/integra. While this rate is much higher than stock, it isn't overly high compared to what some rates are coming out in Japan. I have seen some coilovers which are coming out with 14kg front 16kg rear, which is what I presume you beleive would be best.

[barefootbonzai]

aozora (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=3474) i hope you're some sort track specialist. You're talking like an expert and fixing up everyones "mistakes".

[bennjamin]

im trusting Whitelines perspective rather than another
"stiff stiff coilver" fanatic lol (jokes aozora)

Guys this has gone plenty off topic , as the original question was relative to Best coilovers for purely track CRX (ED9).

Ive made a new thread in the sussy forum in regards to "stiff vs sway" ~ talk away in there :)
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=796210#post796210

PLEASE reply only if you have any guidence about ED9 coilover setups.
To help anthony , check out the yahoo auctions for older used coilovers for a start ~ or perhaps use newer EG6/DC2R coilovers...

[heist]

thanks ben.....i just get sick of the jap writing after a while, cos i cant read it...lol....

well the plan is if there are none for my car then ill have to go eg6 dc2r with itr rear lower control arms and eg front forks....

the zeal super functions seem the best and they ar emade for the ed9, but they are hella expensive....

just working out some options...

[ONE600]

Have a good track setup and good slicks... and that's it I thought? I'm not sure how you can "build" a suspension setup to match the tyres? Care to explain for me? :)


Thought this is pretty self explained.... the grippier the tyre the stiffer the suspension you need. No point building a stiffass suspension and running shit tyres and visversa, Anywaz regarding ur crx, which spring rates front to rear you want depends on ur driving style.

The tipical FF drivers brake then go back on throttle right away at turn in using the throttle to determine if they want more or less turn in. In this case you would want almost 50/50% front to rear spring rate if not rear stiffer.

However I prefer to brake right into the apex, in doing this I need the car to have a stiffer front spring compared to the rear or I would get too much oversteer on entry.

Remember everything here should be taken in general, you be suprised how different every car is even the same model. We run 2 crx's and I have to say they handle very similar to one another but one has no rear ARB and the other one has a 18mm one.

Besides theres no "best" setup for all tracks. General rule tho.... slower track = softer / faster track = stiffer

[barefootbonzai]

If i was you heist i would listern to the man above ^^^^^^. I would put down money on him, with him in a CRX vs anyone else in a CRX around a circut.

Edit: fixing grammer

[heist]

well the three tracks i will be running on are: Eastern creek, wakefield park and oran park...NSW obviously

[aozora]

Thought this is pretty self explained.... the grippier the tyre the stiffer the suspension you need. No point building a stiffass suspension and running shit tyres and visversa, Anywaz regarding ur crx, which spring rates front to rear you want depends on ur driving style.

Basically good suspension setups would go to waste with crap tyres and good tyres with poor suspension setups like wise?

Nice time for QR btw :)

Oh and I'm sure heist can make up his own mind barefootbonzai... :D

[ONE600]

Basically good suspension setups would go to waste with crap tyres and good tyres with poor suspension setups like wise?

Nice time for QR btw :)

Oh and I'm sure heist can make up his own mind barefootbonzai... :D

indeed good sus is a waste with shit tyres but what I am saying...

if you have very stiff suspension and your just running high performance tyres you will probly get more grip by making the sus softer. i.e not enough load on the outside tyre when cornering.....