60ft times on street tyres

[spetz]

After having driven some Honda's
They seem to have better traction than most other FWD cars.

Now, from discussing this with a few people, most people come down to the conclusion that it is due to the fact that these Honda engines have so little torque.

ie. With a B16A, it is hard to spin the wheels unless you dial in quite a few revs


So, I was wondering if people could tell me what would a Civic, Prelude, Integra do as a 60ft time
Both modded, stock, etc

[Q_ball]

b18b turbo + 213kw atfw + 18" Nankangs = 2.264 60'
(2nd time down the 1/4 :p)

[spetz]

Yeah that 60ft is alright considering you haven't been on the drag strip many times but it's not that great though

What rpm launch and how much wheelspin?

[Q_ball]

^ No launch, normal street driving take off.
Wheel spin...i dunno how you can measure that lol, but the whole of first gear is wheel spin, as well as the mid and hi end of 2nd.

[spetz]

What do you think is a good 60ft time for a FWD car running street tyres?

213kw atw is quite a bit of power so if 2nd isn't too bad with traction and 3rd onwards has traction then you're doing good
But what type of torque does it pull?
And what was the ET like on that run?

[EG5]

EGK20A on DOT street tyres. 205/50/15
12.886sec @106.04mph (12.886sec@106.04mph)
best 60ft time was 1.968

[spetz]

That's a very nice 60ft time especially on 15s!!

But, is that due to car being so light, and having a pro driver?

[ALLMTR]

Why is that good "especially" on 15's?????

1.95 is my best

[ONE600]

My best last night was, 2.067 on Toyo T1rs
Stock b16a1 intake, exhaust, vafc

[Q_ball]

Dang pplz hehe, looks like i got a lot of practicing to do :D

[barefootbonzai]

My best last night was, 2.067 on Toyo T1rs
Stock b16a1 intake, exhaust, vafc

Same nite, both on street tires as well.

EK hatchback b16A2 - 2.145 - 14.480@95mph
EG sedan b18CR - 2.089 - 13.850@100mph

[kayot1k]

barefoot what a show off .
heheh

[barefootbonzai]

lol, just cause you pulling 15's :P

[Teggy-Vtir]

13.540 @ 104mph .. 2.203 60' with 17" yokohama tyres. at 10% tread haha

[G AE82]

The red honda with the B16A did a best of 1.924 60 ft on 14 inch DOT tyres.

[spetz]

Why is that good "especially" on 15's?????

1.95 is my best


Well isn't having smaller wheels worse for traction?
ie. You'd get better 60ft time on 16", 17" etc?

Or am I wrong and in fact having smaller wheels is better for 60ft times as it is easier to spin them?

[Professional]

It depends on the size and what compound of your tyre.


Well isn't having smaller wheels worse for traction?
ie. You'd get better 60ft time on 16", 17" etc?

Or am I wrong and in fact having smaller wheels is better for 60ft times as it is easier to spin them?

[GnJracing]

My understanding is that less wheel (diameter) and more tyre (sidewall) = more traction and more wheel and less tyre = less traction.
I hope you guys can understand my point:p

[sivic]

My understanding is that less wheel (diameter) and more tyre (sidewall) = more traction and more wheel and less tyre = less traction.
I hope you guys can understand my point:p

that is correct

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/snlfarley.jpg

[spetz]

Yeah that was my understanding too
But, at the same time cuz most 15" "performance" tyres are like 195 or 205 50/15 it also means the rolling diameter is quite low so it is like a really short first gear
So, bad for traction?

Not really sure but I could spin my wheels easy with 15s, harder with 17s and fairly easy on 16s
But I run 45 profile on 16s

[GnJracing]

shorter gears = better acceleration!

[sivic]

Not really sure but I could spin my wheels easy with 15s, harder with 17s and fairly easy on 16s
But I run 45 profile on 16s
its piss easy to spin on the 16's cos you have a low tyre profile. harder on 17's cos they are heavier and harder to get going, assuming you're also using 205's on them. low profile tyres are comparitively crap for the drag stip
with 15's you run a larger tyre profile such 50 or 55 or even higher. lower the tyre pressure a bit and you'll be able to launch much harder as the tyre wall can flex a little on take off and therefore not lose traction. then, when you're going you have less rotational mass = better acceleration

[iijjee]

As I understand it it's merely a matter of physics...

Power versus "gear"... "gear" (my non phyics term!) being determined by gear ratio and wheel/tyre diameter (total).

A higher profile tyre is always preferrable down the strip (see any professional drag car) and lower tyre pressures as this allows tyre shape to distort and grip rather than losing traction.

There is obviously an optimum overall wheel diameter for each car/application but in general, as you will see from FWD records in back of ZOOM magazine, 14's and 15's will do better than 17's and 18's...

My old EG B16A did a best at Willowbank of 15.26 on 195/60/14's and a best of 16.00 in 205/45/16's... And as has previously been mentioned, you can feel the difference easily on the street.

Another reason chromies are generally the equivalent of putting a skinny exhaust and 100kg on your car!!!

iijjee

[iijjee]

...but wait ... there's more...

Just thought I'd point out that a larger overall diamter is like starting off on your bicycle in a higher gear... and heavier wheels, as has been mentioned, will also rotate less willingly!!!

...I've also heard that the larger diameter wheels can give you a better mph at the end of the track, but I haven't experienced that. I guess if the engine has the power to drive it and there's no wheelspin, you should be able to cover more metres per engine revolution and therefore, possibly, accelerate more quickly... ???

iijjee

[spetz]

So then whatis the optimum wheel/tyre package on a small yet relatively powerfull FWD car for both traction on launch and cornering?


Also, how are semi slicks for launching? I assume good in the way of tyre to road contact traction but they also use very hard sidewalls which would be bad for traction. So how are they overall?

[dc4t]

do u get out much? :p

[spetz]

How is that relevant to anything?

[sivic]

they're better than regular road tyres.
have a search around the drag racing threads and see what ppl's setups are and see what 60' times they're getting

[terroristone]

1.97 on 13" 205's

[joyride]

would having LSD be a contributing factor to better launch times aswell?

[spetz]

Sivic I didn't mean a tyre just for drag strip
But rather a tyre/wheel size that is good for both track work and launching grip


Joyride, it theoretically should help as it'll spin both wheels rather than just one but I think Honda's from factory spin both anyway?

[joyride]

did anyone who took their car to the strip deflate their tyres to any certain psi? i saw all the guys in the v8's and rotor's do it and check the psi with gauges...

[luzinit]

duy u gangsta, hahah. i did 2.19 on 16/205/45 on toyo tpg, lowering psi helps, i did it to 22psi on the fronts

[GnJracing]

Had my semi-slicks as low as 9psi (cold) and never above 20psi if I do a burnout. Remeber psi goes up as you put heat into them. Wouldn't recommend going that low with regular street tyres though.

[terroristone]

i got best results with 12 psi on the 13's (street tyres $75 each) at calder. 13.345 @103.85

[2MPRSS]

2.380 on 15 inch toyo semi slicks lol 13.3 @111mph

[ginganggooly]

2.10 on 18psi good year eagle f1's.

[joyride]

what do you guys say about using retreads for drag use?

[GnJracing]

I was all for them before I had one delaminate on me at 110kph on the highway. If you look on the side of them usually they are speed limited to a lower speed than regular tyres.

[HRD2BQT]

(1) 14.392 @ 94.95mph wd 2.160 60"
(2) 14.370 @ 95.03mph wd 2.145 60"
(3) 14.320 @ 96.90mph wd 2.159 60"

225/50/16 on 18psi

Those were done on the same day on 3 consecutive passess @ Compak Attak event

Car: CE Lancer w/ 6A12 V6 Mivec :)

[spetz]

Have you taken your DC5R to the track yet?

You would be the perfect person to say whether Honda really have better traction, or it is their lack of torque!

[.::F[L]Y::.]

2.18 60ft time when i had the s2000. Street tyres 18" wheels

[Da1nONLY]

2.611 60ft on 18 inch nangkangs Sports NS II's @ 42 PSi.

[HRD2BQT]

Phil

Sold my DC5R long time ago. As you may already know, I'm in the process of building my next project car.

But having driven a few VTEC cars, I must say that my lancer wheelspinned as well as hopped more than 1.6 and 1.8 VTEC. Maybe its due to the TORQUE.

I launched at 4000RPM on those 14.3 runs.


Have you taken your DC5R to the track yet?

You would be the perfect person to say whether Honda really have better traction, or it is their lack of torque!

[spetz]

Yeah I know you sold the DC5R and got a EK now don't you?

My car wheel spins too, and my B16A Civic friend has heaps of traction, even in the wet
But at the same time, whenever we race my car always launch harder/faster

So I don't know, maybe it is torque?
Though, had a friend with a 1.6 turbo lancer CC and he had heaps of traction as well. 15psi boost and wouldn't spin the wheels

I have seen timeslips of 1.6 MIVEC doing 2.10 60ft time also?

[SINISTR]

so what is the idea behind getting a good 60' time?

is it tyres or driver skill?

in 2003 i was getting 2.6/2.7 60' times on 15s 15.8@141.3km
in 2005 i was getting 2.5 60' times on 17s (only mods was the RS*R extractors and the bodykit) 15.8@142km

and here i read of people getting 2.1 and all sorts of low times and quick 1/4s on ZCs - any ideas how I can get my 60' time down?

im reading up and around 20PSI is good for 17s. can anyone confirm this?

[HRD2BQT]

d idea of getting a good time simply is an indication on how good a driver launch the car but of course tyres also plays an important part as well.

so I say combo of tyres & driver is wat gets u to a quicker 60" :)

I say PRACTICE will get u better 60" :)

[SINISTR]

d idea of getting a good time simply is an indication on how good a driver launch the car but of course tyres also plays an important part as well.

so I say combo of tyres & driver is wat gets u to a quicker 60" :)

I say PRACTICE will get u better 60" :)

should I stop running on 17s tho? and get only the 15s?

[todaek9]

1.91 60ft - 13.292 @ 103mph with RT215 Falken with sus setup and light strip

[DynoDave]

Had my semi-slicks as low as 9psi (cold) and never above 20psi if I do a burnout. Remeber psi goes up as you put heat into them. Wouldn't recommend going that low with regular street tyres though.
Hey I remember someone playing with your tire pressure's last time you where in Sydney and I think it resulted in your PB :p
Regards Dyno Dave

[G AE82]

Hey I remember someone playing with your tire pressure's last time you where in Sydney and I think it resulted in your PB :p
Regards Dyno Dave

Hehe, I'm not even bringing my tire pressure guage to Jamboree, I'm going to let you and that little guage work their magic :D

[DynoDave]

Hehe, I'm not even bringing my tire pressure guage to Jamboree, I'm going to let you and that little guage work their magic :D
OK thats a date:D
Regards Dyno Dave

[B16T]

I'm only new to this forum but my best time has been a 1.89 60"
with 225/50/15's on 12psi.

[joyride]

d idea of getting a good time simply is an indication on how good a driver launch the car but of course tyres also plays an important part as well.
so I say combo of tyres & driver is wat gets u to a quicker 60" :)
I say PRACTICE will get u better 60" :)if you have a slipping clutch, does that affect 60" times too?

[EG5]

if you have a slipping clutch, does that affect 60" times too?

yess indeed , slipping clutch is bad for 60ft time
also suspension set up play some part here too .

[HRD2BQT]

i agree with yonas.