factory shocks + aftermarket springs

[kiddoDC2]

i know that its recommended to use aftermarket shocks with aftermarket springs

but are springs from spoon, h &r and tein stech designed with the factory shocks in mind?

i'm thinking of aftermakert springs + stock shocks to improve handling until i get enough for some konis

i dont really mind a slightly harsh ride as long as the springs dont break off or soemting when i'm driving

[mo]

I know of some people that have had Spoon Progressives on there stock shocks for a few months with no problems.

But I guess it depends on how old your stock shocks are already IMHO!

[bennjamin]

As long as it isnt too much of a drop , and thath the springs are progressive - there shouldnt be too much of a problem at all.

Shock life is terribly shortened , once you lower the car too much , and use super stiff "straight" springs..(like kmac etc) - and the shocks will feck themselves quick.

[A'PEXi]

progessive springs should be fine with standard shocks for a while.

[XXpl0Sive]

I have lowered springs on stock shocks. Waiting for the shocks to die before getting aftermarket ones. Handling improved greatly.

[kiddoDC2]

As long as it isnt too much of a drop , and thath the springs are progressive - there shouldnt be too much of a problem at all.

Shock life is terribly shortened , once you lower the car too much , and use super stiff "straight" springs..(like kmac etc) - and the shocks will feck themselves quick.

when you say too much a drop around how much? 2 inches or more?

[Kit]

i'm thinking of aftermakert springs + stock shocks to improve handling until i get enough for some konis


I wouldnt recommend it

the thing is, changing to aftermarket springs with stock shocks usually doesnt improve the handling, and in most cases makes handling worse.

but if its very close to the stock ride height, it won't degrade your shock life too much.

Chris

[type one]

I had spoon progressives on my stock shocks for about 18 months?? very harsh ride... but i actually though handling wise it was pretty good... of course if you really pushi it you don;t get the right damp (especially on crappy roads) but on flat surfaces its not too much of a problem...

i now have matched spoon shocks... and i haven;t really looked back... plus a good alignment and it will SIGNIFICANTLY improve your handling...

[tanghy]

simple question: how old are the shocks on the car now?

[mo]

simple question: how old are the shocks on the car now?

:nod:

[Kit]

I don't think changing springs will give better handling. It will give you less body roll, and as a result potentially more grip, but in general I dont think it improves handling.

you just gotta remember, body roll, grip and handling are 3 independant things, and just got you got more or less of one of them, it doesn't nessasarily mean the other two are going to be altered in a proportional amount.

Chris

[VTEC16]

body roll, grip and handling are 3 independant things, and just got you got more or less of one of them, it doesn't nessasarily mean the other two are going to be altered in a proportional amount.

Chris

You have contradicted yourself. They are not independant things. Yes they arent proportional - but who said they were?

Reducing body-roll will improve handling.

[joneblaze]

body roll, grip and handling are 3 independant things, and just got you got more or less of one of them, it doesn't nessasarily mean the other two are going to be altered in a proportional amount.

Chris

You have contradicted yourself. They are not independant things. Yes they arent proportional - but who said they were?

Reducing body-roll will improve handling.

I'd have to agree there, from a "butt dyno" point of view. Driving a lowered car, even riding a/m springs with stock shocks feels a hell of alot better - hence better handling (even if pyschological) - than stock suspension in most cars...

[VTEC16]

stiffer springs=less bodyrol=less weight transfer=more grip to the tyres=better handling.

[type one]

body roll, grip and handling are 3 independant things, and just got you got more or less of one of them, it doesn't nessasarily mean the other two are going to be altered in a proportional amount.

Chris

You have contradicted yourself. They are not independant things. Yes they arent proportional - but who said they were?

Reducing body-roll will improve handling.

I'd have to agree there, from a "butt dyno" point of view. Driving a lowered car, even riding a/m springs with stock shocks feels a hell of alot better - hence better handling (even if pyschological) - than stock suspension in most cars...


I agree with the psychological POV..... in my crappy lancer days i cornered slower cos the car felt less stable (due to bodyroll) even after i put in coilovers i cornered slower than i do now... granted i now have an R but point being that the three things aren;t independent... and this can be seen simply from your psychological test hehehe... technically i agree with vtec16 (see above) - the FACT of the matter is when you compress your stock shock with lowered springs... IF you have a GOOD set of springs the feeling can ALMOST be comparable to a BASIC coilover set up. (Shock becomes less progressive and gives more feedback in and out of corners)...

having said that... the life of the shock is GREATLY reduced. So best to go with matched shock and spring. I DISAGREE with coilovers used on a ROAD ONLY basis.

[Kit]

body roll, grip and handling are 3 independant things, and just got you got more or less of one of them, it doesn't nessasarily mean the other two are going to be altered in a proportional amount.

Chris

You have contradicted yourself. They are not independant things. Yes they arent proportional - but who said they were?

Reducing body-roll will improve handling.

No, I haven't contradicted myself at all, less body roll DOES NOT mean better handling.

Less body roll usually increases grip, but it doesnt imply better handling at all.

Grip and Handling are two totally independant things. It is commonly referred to as the same thing, but they are not.

How about you tell me what you think handling is?

its kinda like the statement "it handles like its on rails" is incorrect cos that statement is referring to grip, not handling.

Chris

[Kit]

stiffer springs=less bodyrol=less weight transfer=more grip to the tyres=better handling.

tell me why you think more grip = better handling and I'll explain why it doesnt. :)

while I really am NOT trying to be rude here, one thing that we need to be aware of is that people come on here to ask questions, and WILL make decisions based on recommendations in replys (although quite silly cos anyone can post anything on here). so make sure u know what you are talking about before you make recommendations.

and as always, I am happy to be proved wrong :)

[ginganggooly]

handing is a highly subjective subject. i think many people confuse grip with handing, they are not the same thing.
grip is part of the overall handling equation, but things like adjustability, predictability, steering feel, steering response, overall poise, body control and the like are of equal importance. handling is not something you can easily quantify. measuring grip is a simple matter of collecting some data on lateral g's etc...

[Calvo]

heh i got aftermarket springs on stock shocks, i must say ride is worse, hella bumpy wen u hit just a tiny little bump.
as for handling, i cant really say its improved, but definitely isnt worse....

[Kit]

Well, handling can be said to be a kind of subjective subject, but at the end of the day handling refers specifically to how the car behaves just before, on, and after the car's limit of adhesion.

So, in a nutshell, grip talks about how much "Stickyness" to the road before your car loses traction, handling is talking about everything just before and after that.

factors such as:
- how communicative the car is before it breaks traction
- how it behaves after its broken traction: understeer/oversteer/neutral
- how responsive the car is to driver input after losing traction
all this kind of stuff go into the handling equation.

what makes the ITR, Lotus Elise etc great handling cars? cos they all excel in the above factors.
I remember the my99 WRX was a good example of a car that had huge amounts of grip, but was in fact a very poor handling car. And to an extent it was a poor handler because of its huge levels of grip: once you lost it, you well and truly lost it cos you were going wayyyyy too fast when it broke traction.

so getting back to the original question about aftermarket springs with shocks, I dont think its a good idea, cos the stock shocks are designed for the stock springs, changing the spring rate without changing the damping capability of the shock more often than not won't give better handling.
sure enough it will reduce body roll, and in effect probably increase grip, but handling... who knows?

but having said that, handling probably isn't very important if your car never sees the track, cos really, who drives around on the roads on the limit anyway? so, depending on what you want, it may be an interim solution for you.

[Jim80y]

So, in a nutshell, grip talks about how much "Stickyness" to the road before your car loses traction, handling is talking about everything just before and after that.



Bingo. :thumbsup:

ITR :love: :P