1G CRX/3G Civic - Handling set up

[MoDCoN]

Hey guys, long time no postin...

Just wondering whether its worth making these old things handle? How do the compare with later models with IRS? I love them cos of how lightweight they are... I know there the MUgen Motul Si (thx GT4) and I've been looking at redpepperracing.com.... but I want to know from the people that actually drive them... SNSTR (how do you spell that lol).

Thanks guys!

[Jazzle]

I can tell u that it's got potential!!. As long as you can find the right part.. you can hardly find a car this light nowaday and the driving feel is excellent. none of the modern cars can compare with it (too light). i bet sinistr will tell u the same thing ;)

[SlobberGoat]

Sinistr's GENONE is pretty much kept in cotton wool but he has 2 other possible track-whores in the works. I personally think that they would be more throwable through the corners moreso than the ED's/EF's. But I'll confirm this when I get one myself.

ps: I'm loving your avatar modcon. I have nothing but love for the ED3...(care to send me the original pic?)

[MoDCoN]

Sinistr's GENONE is pretty much kept in cotton wool but he has 2 other possible track-whores in the works. I personally think that they would be more throwable through the corners moreso than the ED's/EF's. But I'll confirm this when I get one myself.

ps: I'm loving your avatar modcon. I have nothing but love for the ED3...(care to send me the original pic?)

Lol.... i already pinched the avatar myself... so don't have the full picture. EDs/EFs prolly my fave gen, although i'm looking at the 3rd gens now too, as a first car.

I'm planning on getting one to set up as a daily driver; with such a light kerb weight you don't need heaps of power- although I wouldn't mind swapping in efi- prolly the brown top ZC. The hard part is finding engines? Or should I be speaking to wreckers?

Cheers

[SINISTR]

hey ModCon.

i'll be honest... GENONE handles like a BOAT compared to my gen2 but thats simply because its got no suspension changes done, its completly stock with Koni Red front shocks and even rides on same damper as stock..

BUT... in saying that these things CAN handle brilliantly when some money is thrown the suspension way.

Being an old skool - non spring over coil front end setup, they don't behave like an ED/EF but can just as well - and as you guys said - weight is on their side.

Thicker and lowered torsion bars on the front, adjustable damper front shocks and lowered rear springs/shocks - couple braces and damn ... those will HANDLE sweetly as!

my friend Adam used to run his little 83 CRX (Im currently the new owner of that car as of wednesday nite)... and that thing is lethal around corners... just like a gokart...

[SINISTR]

definatelly speak to wreckers - plenty of old ZCs around the place. Keep an eye out on the forums, but also try www.strongforhonda.co.nz. The guys there have ZCs as well and from memory you can get one shipped from NZ (JDM ZC) for about 1K including customs/taxes etc (perhaps cheaper).

Altho when buying a 3rd gen civic or 1st gen crx try getting an EFi one... save you quiet a bit on the modification from carby to Efi side.

[MoDCoN]

Were there any efi equipped civics from that gen in aus? I've seen efi crx's but not civics... I'll have a look at strongforhonda and prolly hondwreck as well- anyone dealt with them?
I've found a 87 civic for bout 600, so i think i'll have some left over for handling; the cars currently done about 250000 Ks, so a new engine mightt be in order sometime soonish to meet my expectations :)

Can you help me out with torsion bars... How do they work, where do i get thicker n lower ones?

My plan = stripped down, modded sussy and wider tyres... mmmm

oh and does the ZC swap in easily? I am slightly confused by what can be swapped and what cannot be... I don't think I want to buy a mounting kit for a cheap car, although if I have to I'm happy to convert carby to efi (learning experience!)

[Setanta]

Whiteline used to have an excellent setup for these cars as I recollect. Made them handle on rails.

[MoDCoN]

Whiteline used to have an excellent setup for these cars as I recollect. Made them handle on rails.

really? that great cos i was going to go to them anyway... maybe i should speak to trav... hmmm

[kayot1k]

just as u can make anything fast as long as you have money,
same rules apply. itll handle just as good as long as you have plenty money.
although brand/type of suspension you buy is important also.

which cars handle best in stock form is a different story.

[aznpsuazn]

you will be looking at changing all suspension bushings if you want it to be a thorough job. the labour and parts of this will set you back a lot in addition to the setup itself. something to keep in mind.

[qikteg]

hey ModCon.


Thicker and lowered torsion bars on the front, adjustable damper front shocks and lowered rear springs/shocks - couple braces and damn ... those will HANDLE sweetly as!


where bouts can i get thicker and lowered torsion bars? i'm having the hardest time finding any

[aznpsuazn]

whiteline?

[fat_85_civic]

They can be made to handel very good pretty cheap. il post on monday about it whan i have time,

[SINISTR]

couple of things to answer :)

Some 'imported' civics im sure had an efi engine - otherwise with an efi system in place ZCs are fairly easy to swap - yes.

Torsion bars:

gen1 CRXs as well as Civics used quiet thin torsion bars... *cant remember but - 14mm*
Interga torsion bars are probably the cheapest available - and swap straight in.
Otherwise : www.redpepperracing.com does have some posts on their forums where you can buy thicker torsion bars - some even purely for racing purposes.

[MoDCoN]

just as u can make anything fast as long as you have money,
same rules apply. itll handle just as good as long as you have plenty money.
although brand/type of suspension you buy is important also.

which cars handle best in stock form is a different story.

I understand and respect this, I just think that honda makes good fun little cars that can be slightly improved in certain areas (as honda has done itself with each successive generation, although they have to take into account other factors- safety/economy/what the market wants) and I dont want to be spending mega dollars to make a fun handling car- otherwise I'd just buy the lotus exige in light blue and call it a day. :)
Also honda has done much of the work here already- buy making engines which are easily (almost) transplanted between models.

--> Does anyone know whether the d16a8 engine swaps in? i know the d18a1 does... from the 1st gen teg. But is has less hp, is older etc. fat 85 civic- isnt this what you did? (or u used the old teggy motor...)



you will be looking at changing all suspension bushings if you want it to be a thorough job. the labour and parts of this will set you back a lot in addition to the setup itself. something to keep in mind.

Yeah. I'm looking for a manual for this model to learn more about their sussy (still confused) and would prolly buy one when/if I get the car this week. I'd figure sussy parts included new bushings- something to replace as it got older/used, just like all disposables- oil/filters etc.

[MoDCoN]

couple of things to answer :)

Some 'imported' civics im sure had an efi engine - otherwise with an efi system in place ZCs are fairly easy to swap - yes.

Torsion bars:

gen1 CRXs as well as Civics used quiet thin torsion bars... *cant remember but - 14mm*
Interga torsion bars are probably the cheapest available - and swap straight in.
Otherwise : www.redpepperracing.com does have some posts on their forums where you can buy thicker torsion bars - some even purely for racing purposes.

hmm well i think im looking to start with somethin cheap to work up with... i've not seen many 3rd gens for sale...

[SINISTR]

Fat85Civic swapped a D16A3 (brown top ZC) into his civic... but not sure if his civic was already EFi or not.
How much do you want to spend on a car? maybe hold off a week or two and keep your eye out for a gen1 crx.. every couple of weeks one pops up around the place... :)

[SINISTR]

MINT example of what is available!!! 1986 built with a 1.6 already!

only $3800!!!

http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!cs_content.private_vehicle?vehicle_id=2512982&current_rec=42&used_rec=4&total_rec=57&sort_type=&total_rec=57&sort_type=&make_id=19&model_id=344

[fat_85_civic]

stock t-bars are around 20-21mm and teg ones are actually softer than civic ones.
My civic wasnt EFI but its really not very hard to swap over, all oy uneed to do is mount the pump and use soem rubber hose to join it all up.

To make it handle good quite cheaply all you need to do it lower it a bit, not too much or youll have no sussy travel, this costs abotu $180 as all you need is new rear springs, or you can use cut integra ones for even cheaper.

Some new shocks as the old ones will be stuffed

Weld up the rear swaybar, how to do this can be found on redpepperracing.com

and replace all the bushes, i got mine from america for $110

This is all i have done to my car for my suspension and it hanldes very well.
Im hopeing to get a front strutbrace soon from america but it costs abit in shipping so ill have to save up.

Luke

[julzy_84]

sorry to hijack but what engine's swap straight into a 84' civic? does a d15b4?

thanks and again sorry for the highjack

[MoDCoN]

stock t-bars are around 20-21mm and teg ones are actually softer than civic ones.
My civic wasnt EFI but its really not very hard to swap over, all oy uneed to do is mount the pump and use soem rubber hose to join it all up.

To make it handle good quite cheaply all you need to do it lower it a bit, not too much or youll have no sussy travel, this costs abotu $180 as all you need is new rear springs, or you can use cut integra ones for even cheaper.

Some new shocks as the old ones will be stuffed

Weld up the rear swaybar, how to do this can be found on redpepperracing.com

and replace all the bushes, i got mine from america for $110

This is all i have done to my car for my suspension and it hanldes very well.
Im hopeing to get a front strutbrace soon from america but it costs abit in shipping so ill have to save up.

Luke

let me know when you're planning on shipping stuff, i might be in the market too, making it cheaper for us! :)

[MoDCoN]

Fat85Civic swapped a D16A3 (brown top ZC) into his civic... but not sure if his civic was already EFi or not.
How much do you want to spend on a car? maybe hold off a week or two and keep your eye out for a gen1 crx.. every couple of weeks one pops up around the place... :)

the less the better (more accessible) but a few grand. but if i buy my unrego'd i've got something to work on now, get to rwc then rego. rego will be about 450 so if i but it for 450-500 thats less than a grand. add 300 on fixing up little bits and pieces, $xxx for a new windscreen.... and its still running. than de ricify the interior (knob/wheel/pedals) and it'll be sweet. just looking for a teg donor car- maybe a wreck from hondwreck. hmm

[SINISTR]

stock t-bars are around 20-21mm and teg ones are actually softer than civic ones.
Luke

Luke... are you 'sure' the teg ones are softer than the civic ones? u might be thinking of the civic wagon perhaps which are said to be thicker...

the ones available on redpepper are 24, 27 and 29mm right? 29 being the race use ones.

[j3z3z]

the gen3 civic (2 door hatch) is a great platform and has excelent handling for what little of a car there is, i do recoment you get a efi model aswell and bypass any with powersteering (save the kgs and have better road feel). In terms of gen1 crx i cannot comment as i am yet to ever drive one. But the difference between a gen3 civic to a gen2 crx is huge in the handling department, even tho the gen2rex is heavier the gen3civic chasis and weight dont make up the total handling difference compared to the gen2crx, yet it can still be made a bloody quick car. Also if you are lucky enough to find one with a b series motor swap and brake upgrade i recomend forking out the cash for it as they are monsters. Also a little trick to make it pointy and removing understeer in the tight stuff i recomend running your front tyres 1-1.5 inches wider than the rear

[MoDCoN]

the gen3 civic (2 door hatch) is a great platform and has excelent handling for what little of a car there is, i do recoment you get a efi model aswell and bypass any with powersteering (save the kgs and have better road feel). In terms of gen1 crx i cannot comment as i am yet to ever drive one. But the difference between a gen3 civic to a gen2 crx is huge in the handling department, even tho the gen2rex is heavier the gen3civic chasis and weight dont make up the total handling difference compared to the gen2crx, yet it can still be made a bloody quick car. Also if you are lucky enough to find one with a b series motor swap and brake upgrade i recomend forking out the cash for it as they are monsters. Also a little trick to make it pointy and removing understeer in the tight stuff i recomend running your front tyres 1-1.5 inches wider than the rear

i had always thought about that... is that a universal reccomendation? how will it affect a cars handling? will it make the rear end looser? or just tighten up the front? and wont it also make turning harder? esp in a non power assisted car?

are you saying crx's outhandle civics? i just prefer the practicailty of the larger hatch section...

[j3z3z]

crxs in stock form will out handle a civic in stock form. Although after mods (sussy stripped brakes n shit) on both either could be better just depends how much you want to put in $$$$.
Wider fronts on ff is a universal recomendation for a tighter track/circuit as that is were the drive is coming from it also tends to cause the rear to lighten up a little making the car more nippy/pointy (oversteer). In a car as light as a 1gencrx 3gencivic wider fronts would make turning feel a little harder as in all cars and same as ps an non ps but as the cars are so light you wouldnt notice much even with non ps.
A good ps Example is driving a current large family car falcon/magna/comodore and then driving a 3rd gen civic non ps the civic feels lighter and and easier to steer.
But if your at a fast track circuit (high speed corners) i would recomend even front and rear for high speed stability.

[qikteg]

found off g1teg.org, if you're looking to upgrade your torsion bars, the best to use are 27.5mm

trying to locate some now, but not having an easy time

question: is the wheel base for the g1 crx and gen3 civic identical? and is it the same as the 88-91 (ED) civic?

[fat_85_civic]

for the street 24mm is the best i reacon, and yes teg ones are less stiff, the wagone ones are stiffer, this is what i have.
It is very hard to get a EFi civic in aus as they were never sold so it would have to be an import.

[SINISTR]

CRXs were imports as well - 83-86 models. Some did come with EFi and Carby too. Mainly EFi tho.

surprised to hear teg ones are less stiff than the civic ones. CRX ones must be even less.

[qikteg]

fat85civic

have you lowered your civic by the adjusting nut on the wagon t-bars? andthe verdict in terms of handling/bottoming out etc

[fat_85_civic]

i resplined the t-bars so i didnt have the nut nearly falling off and it is quite abit lower than stock look on redpepperracing for how to do it, it doesnt bottom out too much but on big bumps at speed it will, soon i am going to lower the shock into the hub more so that i have like 2-3 cm more suspension travel.
CRX t-bars should be the same as civic ones i think.

[SINISTR]

thats the ONLY problem with torsion bar suspension - you have to make 'changes' like lowering the strut in the hub to get more travel when the car is too low - but they handle sweet.

if civic and crx bars are thesame then the teg ones have to be thicker...

[fat_85_civic]

they are thicker but their longer too which softens them, wagon ones are stiffer coz their slightly larger diametre but shorter.