View Full Version : Why Not Turbo ??
DannyB
30-09-2003, 01:03 AM
Why would it not be pheasable to turbo my 99 cxi??
Obviously there are more powerful civics out there but i'd just like to keep my car and do it up gradually ... What are your suggestions.
If it's not Pheasable Why?? And if anyone could help with suggestion on what i can do to get a few more ponies it would be muchly appreciated!!
i already have a 2.25inch exhaust with lukey muffler ....would extractors and pod filter help??
Is that the d16y4? Know a guy on another forum running one boosted. Goes well, 100kw@wheels on 8psi with leaking valve seals.
It can be done, for about 5-6k a shop may do a light conversion for u (around 8psi).. Then u can built the bottom end up and push some more air into it for some big numbers.. ppl will say engine swap this, new car that, but if u wanna be unique and try some boost, their is no doubt a way...
ICVCI
30-09-2003, 01:42 AM
yeah breather mods would help, it would sound really fast, also lowering your car plays its part, for that engine dont expect a miracle after all those mods, but if your gonna boost your car, it really depends on ur budget. there are many things to consider...
suggestions:
* [Budget] save your money, weekly, fortnightly whatever
* [if u dont work] ask mum & dad or sell the good shit.
* [if you work] take a loan, knowing you are able to address the amount you are borrowing.
* define exactly wat you are after from your car ie. hobby, cruizer, sleeper etc...
impluse desicions may stuff you up at some stage...
but after all that, a boosted B16A, with big some ass brakes would be nice for street use... and decent suspension etc... but like i said it comes down to CASH MONEY!!! loans are fo suckas... :|
wats ur purpose for your car anyway? just curious :roll:
Setanta
30-09-2003, 08:07 AM
The big killer is insurance as you fall into two new categories: heavily modified (and yes, they'll pick up the fact that you havent done the brakes etc to match the new output) and turbocharged. If you are under 30 then expect to pay far too much, considerably more than you are now.
This is why it's better to sell what you have and for the price of turbocharging etc, get a 118KW VTiR.
There was a turbo'd CXi in one of the Honda mags, looked like it all worked a dream, but if you have to save for the turbo etc then how are you going to save for insurance?
Damn I'm sounding like an old fart :?
Hadean
30-09-2003, 09:20 AM
How much does it cost to engineer a n/a -> turbo setup? Properly? around $6,000 plus? Might as well buy a new car.
Setanta
30-09-2003, 10:04 AM
Thats a good ballpark figure to do it properly. It doesn't really factor in things such as upgraded brakes and suspension - brakes being the top priority.
Hence the "sell and get a VTiR" approach :)
poweredbyhonda
30-09-2003, 01:35 PM
That's right. Spend your money wisely and get a Vti-R. Economical, reliable and insurable. Unless you plan on building the motor and take no short cuts in turbo charging, my suggestion is stay NA.
A.C.S DRAG
30-09-2003, 04:19 PM
Dave wants you to stay na so that he can drag you off at the lights, lol.
nah only joking, if you wanna turbo give us a call, 0419538730. we've done a few turbo hondas ;)
Why sell it and get a VTiR? He said he wanted something fast :P
Insurance is surprisingly cheap when u have some NCB under ur belt. eg i was quoted 1,500 for a turbo EG from justcars on 45% in sydney, male, 20.
DannyB
01-10-2003, 12:07 AM
Hey thanx for ya suggestions people(Tryin to be politically correct)
I do appreciate ya comments cause i know you guys would deffinently know about this shit!
Personally i love turbo but as you guys have said it's prob not the best option for my car ....which i agree with ..... i think that if i did want a super dooper performance car ....(A) I wouldn't be buying a civic
I bought the civic because i love the look, theres just so much you can do with them!!
So yeah i highly doubt i will be goin for a turbo!! Just not needed i guess for my sorta drivin, i was just sorta intreagued by it seeing if it was pheasable!
Thanx heaps guys ...
VTEChnique
01-10-2003, 04:08 PM
man for like $4,000 you can go B16A Swap with some tuning work done that will blow away a turbo CXi.
though having said that, we had a member - Chun Kie - who had 260HP at the wheels from a Turbo D16Y1 SOHC VTEC - but that had been built from the ground up to take this kind of power.
my vote is go the N/A swap to a B16A if you just like the look of the civic.
It wont work because the NA engines are too highly compressed.
NA engines are high revving engines compared to the turbo engines which are high load engines.
Compression ratio in a decent NA car is something like 12:1 to get the power, especially at low rpm.
On a turbo car the compression ratio is very low comparatively, something in the lines of 8:1, when boost is added into the equation then it would still be safe with the load of the engine. We are speaking on pump juice by the way, none of this AV gas or nitro.
The main issue I would be worried about is adding a turbo, wether that be low or high boost is detonation, imagine putting a snail to a engine running 12:1 compression, piiiiiiiiiiiiiiing BOOM!.
You would need to spend some serious money here and getting the head worked, bigger gasket, bore it out bigger and forged internals. You are trying to lower the compression ( thus losing out on bottom end torque ) and the forged internals is to be able to cope with the high load.
Alot of serious money here, not worth it for bang for bucks.
fueltank
20-10-2003, 11:09 AM
Why would it not be pheasable to turbo my 99 cxi??
Obviously there are more powerful civics out there but i'd just like to keep my car and do it up gradually ... What are your suggestions.
If it's not Pheasable Why?? And if anyone could help with suggestion on what i can do to get a few more ponies it would be muchly appreciated!!
i already have a 2.25inch exhaust with lukey muffler ....would extractors and pod filter help??
IMO engine transplant to a more powerful motor or turboing your existing one would be the best way to increase power by a fair bit.
Whats the compression ratio on a 99 CXi?
9.8:1?
A decompression plate can lower it to say 9.5:1 and run relatively low boost to keep the system happy and retain response.
AVO make turbo kits for Civic's.
http://www.avoturbo.com
You might also want to try www.hikariperformance.com.au they sell second hand GReddy turbo kits.
A'PEXi
20-10-2003, 11:52 AM
i'm with fueltank, for a similar amount of money, it would be wiser to put a b16a in... but if you insist on boost... theres a guy selling a avo turbo kit for about 3.6g's on ff forum i think.. bolts straight on.
one more chance
21-10-2003, 01:50 PM
yeh as already been mentioned...but i think the better option is to get a engine transplant in order of b16a, b18c or h22a.
forget boost in a FWD, go NA!!
pornstar
21-10-2003, 04:10 PM
nah, id go the turbo for sure man. The turbo ont he street gives so much more useable tourque man, id rather the turbo cxi than the b16a stock
eknine
21-10-2003, 07:01 PM
IM), in the long run n/a is cheaper to run, expensive to mod(price-performance output) but at least you don't have to deal with rebuilding the turbo , expensive premiums(that if you are going un-insured), etc
n/a is still the way to go, keep it natural:)
fueltank
21-10-2003, 09:31 PM
IM), in the long run n/a is cheaper to run, expensive to mod(price-performance output) but at least you don't have to deal with rebuilding the turbo , expensive premiums(that if you are going un-insured), etc
n/a is still the way to go, keep it natural:)
why would you need to rebuild the turbo?
luzinit
23-10-2003, 11:16 AM
how fast would a cxi turbo'd be? with basically a bolt on turbo kit??
also, when saying a turboed cxi will get beaten by a tuned b16a, what tuning/mods are u referring to?
i'm interested in what's been done and proven in the quest for more power following the NA route for b16a's!
i've got a civic vtir, and it kinda feels slow now.. i've heard about integra vtir's modded with simple things like headers/full exhaust to beat stock ITR's but what about civic vtirs? ??
ALLMTR
23-10-2003, 08:23 PM
Turbos are good if you want to impress your mates with "PFFFT" noises.
B16a's are good for supporting one end of a workbench
wynode
23-10-2003, 09:14 PM
It will take a lot more money to get a b16a to ITR spec, than a B18C.
I wouldn't waste my time with a B16A if I had the choise. I'd go straight for the B18C at LEAST.
Price/HP wise, turbo always has the advantage. Its a simple fact. Once u start forcing air into the motor, wonderful things can happen. A turbo cxi at a mild tune win a trafficlight drag vs vti-r.
AP1 F20c
24-10-2003, 09:48 AM
why would you need to rebuild the turbo?
Wear and tear buddy nothing technical, if you do a read-up on how turbines work and how high their RPMs spin to produce the phenomenon power, you'd understand why it has a very short lifetime when compared to NA tuned cars. Not to mention, the older the turbine is, the less efficient it gets and the higher the boost you run, the faster your internals wear. Unlike compared to NA if you constantly maintain a good service history, it doesn't wear out as quickly as TA cars. Realize how those grey imports Skylines you see around the roads constantly pour our black smoke when they gun it? And compare that to a same generation VTi-R for comparisons sake, you'd understand which is more efficient with a higher durability.
A turbo should last 100,000km no worries if the owner maintinas the car properly, and thats conservative. My cousin had a VL turbo that went 300,000km without the turbo being looked at. Granted, it was shagged well and truly at that point in time, but it did last a fair while
lol, u cant compare the cost to rebuild a turbine, to that of an engine. Depending on the type, u can have them rebuilt for as low as 300, new ones bought for around $1000.
That bacl smoke pouring out the back of skylines isnt because of the oil seals on thier turbo, its cuase the skyline computers are dumb as shit, and are tuned for japanese conditions.
one more chance
24-10-2003, 01:37 PM
lol, u cant compare the cost to rebuild a turbine, to that of an engine. Depending on the type, u can have them rebuilt for as low as 300, new ones bought for around $1000.
That bacl smoke pouring out the back of skylines isnt because of the oil seals on thier turbo, its cuase the skyline computers are dumb as shit, and are tuned for japanese conditions.
skyline turbos are ceramic wheels which aid with spool up, but once boosted, expect to see parts of the wheel being munched up through the turbo....
yup black smoke = running rich :)
easy to have happen, esp. if you go changing exhausts etc, or upping boost, with the standard ECU in place unmodified.
If it was the turbo that was gone, you'd be seeing blue'ish smoke cos of the oil
bennjamin
24-10-2003, 02:48 PM
so WHY DONT get a turbo ?
*wait for it...*
BECAUSE they SUCK !
tetehheheheh....sorry ill shut up now. 8)
fueltank
24-10-2003, 03:50 PM
why would you need to rebuild the turbo?
Wear and tear buddy nothing technical, if you do a read-up on how turbines work and how high their RPMs spin to produce the phenomenon power, you'd understand why it has a very short lifetime when compared to NA tuned cars. Not to mention, the older the turbine is, the less efficient it gets and the higher the boost you run, the faster your internals wear. Unlike compared to NA if you constantly maintain a good service history, it doesn't wear out as quickly as TA cars. Realize how those grey imports Skylines you see around the roads constantly pour our black smoke when they gun it? And compare that to a same generation VTi-R for comparisons sake, you'd understand which is more efficient with a higher durability.
Thanks.
My turbo has done over 90,000kms without a rebuild?
How soon you need a rebuild depends how much boost you run in relation to the turbo's efficiency range. But yes you're correct, they are a wear and tear item over maybe 10 or so years.
The black smoke is the car running rich. Skylines from factory run rich.
If you have blown a turbo seal, the smoke you see should be white.
Stock 33 GTST skyline vs stock VTi-R Integra...if looked after properly they'll both be just as durable as the other.
fueltank
24-10-2003, 03:54 PM
so WHY DONT get a turbo ?
*wait for it...*
BECAUSE they SUCK !
tetehheheheh....sorry ill shut up now. 8)
to each their own.
size the turbo right and you won't even feel a lag at all.
bennjamin
26-10-2003, 09:09 PM
BECAUSE they SUCK !
its a clever/dumb PUN people ! did i stuff that joke up or wat ! :evil:
*storms out with angry face*
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