Euro on LPG ???

[eecchhoo]

Hi all,

What do you think about converting Euro to LPG?
Can it be done? if it can, what is the performance like?

Would like to get input before deciding on anything.

[EuroDude]

I believe virtually any petrol car can be converted. Check the yellow pages and ask the LPG conversion companies if its compatible.

Here's some good info regarding LPG
http://www.mynrma.com.au/carbuying_lpg.asp

And a calculator to find out if its actually cheaper to run on LPG (but u need to log in)
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=101665&catId=100465&tid=100008&p=1&title=Converting+your+car+to+LPG

But as for VTEC engines, you may need to install harder valve seats according to this:
http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217592&EL=3144039


.

[euro77]

there's a talk about the gov't going to give support (i think financial), so might wait around for it.

[eecchhoo]

Yeah, I watched the news just now
The Fed will provide $2000
For WA govn they will provide another $1000 so $3000 in total...Not sure in other states tho.

[stephen8512]

im never going to convert my euro into an LPG sucking machine

[Mr_will]

Hi all,

What do you think about converting Euro to LPG?
Can it be done? if it can, what is the performance like?

Would like to get input before deciding on anything.


i think it would be very silly, and most likely not worth it.
in percentage terms, lpg has increased more in price than petrol
additionally, lpg production infrastructure would not just magically able to cope with the huge increases in demand which are likely to eventuate if noone comes up with someone better than shitty ethanol, so lpg prices will most likely increase too.

and you lose heaps of boot space. whack.

[yfin]

You will lose most of that boot, LPG uses 30% more fuel and is not available everywhere, plus the fact Honda never designed the car to run on LPG. Plus I also see you have the 2006 model so say bye bye to the Honda warranty on most of the engine bay...

This LPG subsidy idea is bs IMO. If the government was serious they would reduce the taxes on fuel.

[Jaso]

So Honda doesn’t recommend any sort of LPG on Euros?

The government announced a $2000 rebate for installation of LPG ($1000 for factory fitted). They advised to check with the manufacturer to see if it voids the warranty. Keep in mind, as yfin said, LPG does actually used more "gas" as so you’ll be filling up more often. I think they said you have to be doing 15-20, 000km + to make it viable.

The government also announced (or encouraged) they would commit to making ethanol more readily available. On that note, can the Euro run of 10% ethanol fuels???

[yfin]

So Honda doesn’t recommend any sort of LPG on Euros?

The government announced a $2000 rebate for installation of LPG ($1000 for factory fitted). They advised to check with the manufacturer to see if it voids the warranty. Keep in mind, as yfin said, LPG does actually used more "gas" as so you’ll be filling up more often. I think they said you have to be doing 15-20, 000km + to make it viable.

The government also announced (or encouraged) they would commit to making ethanol more readily available. On that note, can the Euro run of 10% ethanol fuels???

I havent seen anything official from Honda about the Euro specifically on LPG.

Maybe my comment about warranty was premature but I would have thought hell would freeze over before the Honda warranty would cover a mechanical problem caused by the aftermarket LPG conversion.

And yes you can run the Euro on E10 -there has been an official announcement by Honda Australia that confirms that.

[EuroDude]

On that note, can the Euro run of 10% ethanol fuels???

Yep the fuel lid sticker says 10% Ethanol is ok to use, as with most late model honda's.

[curik]

VTEC yoo! No more Vtec with gas.

[mrwillz]

wyh wud u
u bort a euro
im sure u'd haf the money to pay for petrol

[Peekay34]

wyh wud u
u bort a euro
im sure u'd haf the money to pay for petrol

Sorry can you speak english please...


I was advised that LPG is harder on Valve Seats so this is a consideration especially with Alloy Heads.... I doubt Honda would warranty any motor with LPG as the engine was never designed for this. I guess if you replaced the valve seats you might get away with it. BTW I found with my Mitsubishi Challenger that I used about 1.4 litres of Gas to 1 litre of Petrol...but no matter what it was still cheaper.

[coladuna]

John Howard must be a stupid idiot if he thinks the government rebate on LPG conversion will help many families. How many people would seriously consider putting a freaking gas bottle in their boot, losing a significant part of boot space? What about resale value? Probably wouldn't matter if it's a beaten up Falcon/Commodore, but I highly doubt many people would even consider buying a second-hand Euro that's been converted to run on LPG. It would no doubt have effect on the resale value.
It's ridiculous he came up with a package that only benefits people who are willing to turn their beloved car into a frankenstein-mobile.

I certainly wouldn't convert my WRX to run on LPG and wouldn't do it to Euro if I still had it. If I could no longer afford to fill up the tanks, I'd rather sell the car and downsize.

[Hoyle]

Interesting I was at the local Honda Service Centre today and listened to the service manager discussing this very issue with a customer that asked. Apparently Honda will NOT warranty LPG conversions, the engine is not designed for it and according to him there are no LPG-compatible valve seats, etc. available for any Honda.

[Mr_will]

VTEC yoo! No more Vtec with gas.


you sure? i have no idea, just curious.

[Peekay34]

John Howard must be a stupid idiot if he thinks the government rebate on LPG conversion will help many families. How many people would seriously consider putting a freaking gas bottle in their boot, losing a significant part of boot space? What about resale value? Probably wouldn't matter if it's a beaten up Falcon/Commodore, but I highly doubt many people would even consider buying a second-hand Euro that's been converted to run on LPG. It would no doubt have effect on the resale value.
It's ridiculous he came up with a package that only benefits people who are willing to turn their beloved car into a frankenstein-mobile.

I certainly wouldn't convert my WRX to run on LPG and wouldn't do it to Euro if I still had it. If I could no longer afford to fill up the tanks, I'd rather sell the car and downsize.

This is not a place to put political points of veiw.... But
Just because you would not do does not mean others would not consider it.... Resale if anything would probably improve cause if I was to buy a petrol guzzler or run high K's I would want gas running on it. Yes it is a consideration about loosing boot space but you can't have your cake and eat it to. And this is a question of choice and it is a personal one obviously not one of yours but to thousands of others maybe. Saying your car is turned into a frankenstein-mobile ...huh most of the time you can't even see the conversion. Remember the Goverment does not drive the Price per barrel up of fuel yes we pay gst and excise but remember overseas influences are the cause of the main increases, greedy oil companies and who ever else drives these prices up. Anyway as I said it is a choice thing and for some households it is attractive. What solution would you have.....remove excise and gst ...yes this would help ...but taxes would be increased some where else...no matter who was in Goverment.

[Mr_will]

What solution would you have.....remove excise and gst ...yes this would help ...but taxes would be increased some where else...no matter who was in Goverment.


i agree that this is not really the point of the thread, but your idea that removing the taxes on fuel being pointless is incorrect

fuel excise is a regressive tax, because it hits lower income earners harder than higher income earners (because in % terms, low income earners spend more of their money on fuel. even if two househoulds spend the same amount, one earning $20k spends a lower % on fuel than one earning $100k, the latter of which is unlikely to care about the price)

if the tax was removed from fuel and placed on something else, eg an increase in income tax, it would be 'fairer', because as people earn more income, they pay more tax, and the lower income earners get a bit of a break. im not saying income tax is a perfect system, but its better than the fuel excise

the other thing is that the excise would prove as a very useful 'buffer', in maintaining a more constant fuel price. if international fluctuations were absorbed, by increases/decreases in the amount the government takes, it would be more stable and better for everyone

[fadz]

besides Gas prices are going to soar upto about $1.20 by the time this rush for LPG finishes , so stick to Petrol.

[Mr_will]

John Howard must be a stupid idiot if he thinks the government rebate on LPG conversion will help many families.


sure, i think he's doing it because he just wants to give the money away. considering the australian economy is in its 14th consecutive year of economic growth, unemployment is (relatively) low and standards of living continue to rise, id say john howard knows what he's on about, definately more so than YOU do.




How many people would seriously consider putting a freaking gas bottle in their boot, losing a significant part of boot space?



People who dont need the boot space?



What about resale value? Probably wouldn't matter if it's a beaten up Falcon/Commodore, but I highly doubt many people would even consider buying a second-hand Euro that's been converted to run on LPG. It would no doubt have effect on the resale value.



What about bananas? what about donkeys? How on earth are you able to make statements about how the market will react to second hand lpg converted cars. in the same way as other aftermarket options such as leather, sunroof etc dont add as much to the second hand value as they did to the new value, an lpg conversion will probably only add a small amount to the cost of a second hand car compared to a non lpg converted equivalent, which for many people will pose an attractive option




I certainly wouldn't convert my WRX to run on LPG and wouldn't do it to Euro if I still had it. If I could no longer afford to fill up the tanks, I'd rather sell the car and downsize.

what about if you couldnt afford to downsize because you needed space/towing ability/7 seat capacity or somethign else which required a largish car?

the lpg conversion is obviously not targeted at people like you with wrx's, so you saying this is just stupid

[Jaso]

John Howard must be a stupid idiot if he thinks the government rebate on LPG conversion will help many families. How many people would seriously consider putting a freaking gas bottle in their boot, losing a significant part of boot space? What about resale value? Probably wouldn't matter if it's a beaten up Falcon/Commodore, but I highly doubt many people would even consider buying a second-hand Euro that's been converted to run on LPG. It would no doubt have effect on the resale value.
It's ridiculous he came up with a package that only benefits people who are willing to turn their beloved car into a frankenstein-mobile.

I certainly wouldn't convert my WRX to run on LPG and wouldn't do it to Euro if I still had it. If I could no longer afford to fill up the tanks, I'd rather sell the car and downsize.

As Mr Will said, its not really targeted at Euro owners, and more so owners of relatively high performance sports cars; its targeted more at people who do own
beaten up Falcon/Commodore and people that do alot of driving - thats why theres a $2000 rebate, as people who are feeling the rise in petrol would also need assistance in raising the $2500-$4000 required for a conversion ;) An excellent initiative :D

[Adagio]

Just do your sums and it will surprise you how many years it will take to recoup that lpg conversion expenditure. In addition just imagine what crappy work you will get in this present hysteria for LPG. Wait & watch ethanol may be the way as it has worked well in Brazil.
Adagio

[Jaso]

Yeh, you have to do alot of driving to make a conversion to LPG viable. The problem with ethanol is that more energy goes into making it than energy it produces. If you mandated E10 in Australia, we wouldnt have the capacity to provide for it.

[Tobster]

Bearing in mind also that you also won't get the same fuel economy with ethanol-laced petrol; you might eventually pay a bit less at the pump, but you won't actually go as far.

[Adagio]

A lot of farmers might disagree with you in the long term. One positive spin on all this stuff is that it is making us think ahead, especially the pollies. We can produce a lot of ethanol in a year or two IF the infrastructure is in place to use it. It may lower the price farmers will get for their crops but it could be a very stable market. In addition what is happening to our oil in the Timor Sea is it being pumped to us yet?
Adagio

[Adagio]

Bearing in mind also that you also won't get the same fuel economy with ethanol-laced petrol; you might eventually pay a bit less at the pump, but you won't actually go as far.

Now wouldn't this be a good project for Hondata or someone to do a power chip based on sustaining, at least, the present power and economy:wave: of the 2.4 Litre and incorporating an Ethanol mix???
Adagio

[K24A]

petrol is not gonna be around for long..so get da most of it while u still can..lol

[panda[cRx]]

euro on lpg, the damage the lpg would cause outweighs any savings you may make with petrol prices, or with the $1000 government rebate for that matter

i heard on the radio that vehicles 2001 or newer require approved lpg kits for cars.... i can't see honda approving any lpg kits. putting lpg in a honda is an absolute abortion imo

[aaronng]

I don't get the drive for LPG. It made sense for public transport because those vehicles are run for at least 8-12 hours a day and therefore would produce a lot of CO and pollution if run on petrol or diesel. LPG produces water vapour if burned completely and makes sense for an environmental pollution standpoint. But it does not make sense to use LPG to cut costs or extend petroleum resources. LPG comes from the lighter fraction that sits above petroleum in a deposit. So unless the stockpile of LPG is much larger than that of crude petroleum, it is still an energy source that will run out at the same time as crude.

[Jaso]

Good point aaronng - i think LPG is designed as an instant fix rather than a long term solution.

[Hoyle]

It made sense for public transport because those vehicles are run for at least 8-12 hours a day and therefore would produce a lot of CO and pollution if run on petrol or diesel. LPG produces water vapour if burned completely and makes sense for an environmental pollution standpoint. But it does not make sense to use LPG to cut costs or extend petroleum resources. LPG comes from the lighter fraction that sits above petroleum in a deposit. So unless the stockpile of LPG is much larger than that of crude petroleum, it is still an energy source that will run out at the same time as crude.

Aaronng

LPG does not burn clean. While it has lower CO emissions than petrol, its actually higher than Diesel (although Diesel does have much higher particulate emissions, hence the black smoke from diesel engines). (LPG is carbon + oxygen + hydrogen atoms, where do you think the carbon atoms go?)

There is FAR more reserves in Australia of natural gas than petroleum, enough to meet our energy needs for tens or even hundreds of years (I don't know the exact figures). It will last many times longer than crude oil reserves.

That said, I still think this LPG subsidy is a publicity stunt and will do nothing to reduce fuel costs for the "average" Australian.

[coladuna]

sure, i think he's doing it because he just wants to give the money away. considering the australian economy is in its 14th consecutive year of economic growth, unemployment is (relatively) low and standards of living continue to rise, id say john howard knows what he's on about, definately more so than YOU do.


Just because he did a good job with the economy doesn't mean he's good at every single aspect of running the country. idiot
Here's a blind follower of politicians.



People who dont need the boot space?

Why do you think they have a big car in the first place? think before saying stupid things.



What about bananas? what about donkeys? How on earth are you able to make statements about how the market will react to second hand lpg converted cars. in the same way as other aftermarket options such as leather, sunroof etc dont add as much to the second hand value as they did to the new value, an lpg conversion will probably only add a small amount to the cost of a second hand car compared to a non lpg converted equivalent, which for many people will pose an attractive option


LPG conversion isn't an option. haha
It doesn't "add" to the vehicle. It's an unconventional conversion. You've got to be stupid if you think LPG converted vehicles will attain higher resale value. It's not much different from N/A cars that's had a turbocharger put on it. It voids warranty and people don't like cars that had unconventional work done to it.



what about if you couldnt afford to downsize because you needed space/towing ability/7 seat capacity or somethign else which required at. largish car?


Once again you are saying two things. You say people who don't need boot space will convert to LPG but now you say people who can't afford to downsize because of space issue will convert to LPG. If someone need heaps of room, they would obviously need boot space to go with it. It your requirement for seat capacity increases, your boot space requirement will naturally increase in most cases.



the lpg conversion is obviously not targeted at people like you with wrx's, so you saying this is just stupid

Why not? Why the **** should only the people who struggle financially benefit? I pay my share of tax and I certainly would want to benefit from any government policy that comes about. I could certainly do with some relief at the bowser too. After all, 99% of the time they are struggling because they are lazy twits, had too many kids when they can't even freaking afford them or they are plain dumb. What lacks in this package is equity.

You obviously have a different view from me and that's perfectly fine with me. Just as you said I said stupid things, in my eyes you look stupid. Understood? Excellent. While you are at it, why don't you send a pm to eecchhoo and tell him he's stupid for contemplating about LPG conversion when he drives a $40K+ brand new Euro Luxury? After all, he's the one who's thinking about converting to LPG, so he must look stupid in your eyes too.

[EDIT] Maybe I should also point out that LPG is less fuel efficient, which cuts into the so-called "saving" from converting to LPG

[Jaso]

Just because he did a good job with the economy doesn't mean he's good at every single aspect of running the country. idiot
Here's a blind follower of politicians.

What is bad about the government offering $2000 for LPG conversions...? Its not as if your forced into it or anthing. It also creates more employment/work for those involved in the fitment of LPG systems.


Why do you think they have a big car in the first place? think before saying stupid things. Perhaps because they have a large number of people or large people to carry. How often is your boot packed to capacity annyway???


LPG conversion isn't an option. haha
It doesn't "add" to the vehicle. It's an unconventional conversion. You've got to be stupid if you think LPG converted vehicles will attain higher resale value. It's not much different from N/A cars that's had a turbocharger put on it. It voids warranty and people don't like cars that had unconventional work done to it.

I doubt LPG conversions would really have much effect - theres definatly demand in the used car market for LPG converted cars, buying one that is alrady converted saves people the time and money of doing it themselves.


Why not? Why the **** should only the people who struggle financially benefit? I pay my share of tax and I certainly would want to benefit from any government policy that comes about. I could certainly do with some relief at the bowser too. After all, 99% of the time they are struggling because they are lazy twits, had too many kids when they can't even freaking afford them or they are plain dumb. What lacks in this package is equity.

Or perhaps its becaused theyve been disadvanted, or not had the oppertunity to be educated...having a tax break on petrol is only going to encourage more petrol usage, which is the last thing the goverment wants.


Maybe I should also point out that LPG is less fuel efficient, which cuts into the so-called "saving" from converting to LPG Yeh but $(100) of LPG will still get you further than ($100) of Petrol.

Just my thoughts ;)

[aaronng]

Aaronng

LPG does not burn clean. While it has lower CO emissions than petrol, its actually higher than Diesel (although Diesel does have much higher particulate emissions, hence the black smoke from diesel engines). (LPG is carbon + oxygen + hydrogen atoms, where do you think the carbon atoms go?)

There is FAR more reserves in Australia of natural gas than petroleum, enough to meet our energy needs for tens or even hundreds of years (I don't know the exact figures). It will last many times longer than crude oil reserves.

That said, I still think this LPG subsidy is a publicity stunt and will do nothing to reduce fuel costs for the "average" Australian.
I know, you get CO2 and water vapour. And incomplete combustion gives CO. Anyway, it makes sense to replace public transport that use diesel engines. Will natural gas reserves last that long if say 50% of cars were converted from petrol dependence to LPG dependence?

Edit: Just saw on the news that it is confirmed that converting to LPG doesn't reduce fuel costs when compared to petrol. LOL

[EuroDude]

hms an lpg-converted car exploded recently, possibly a good reason not to convert, especially cheap'n'dodgy conversions :eek:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/01/1062403450322.html?from=storyrhs
(its an old article, but there was a recent one in the news today)

edit- lol u saw it too aaron

[Suntzu]

I cant understand why we dont start switching to CNG or "compressed natural gas"

As some one stated we have shit loads of the stuff. ( of course we are giving it away to the chinese ! Bah)

In germany they use heaps of the stuff. We could have energy independence with it for a long time.

But no...Howard "decides" to offer a token LPG bullshit rebate.

Such brillant thinkers our government. Real forsight and strength of conviction!

[G7G7]

I will not change over a pre-made petrol car that has had extensive R & D for a $2000 gas change. It just doesnt work.

My mate- runs his a small fleet of cars- and has done the exchange from Pertol to gas- ( you still retain petrol).

Now hes taking FORD to court for a factory LPG Lemon car he bought. - though he may not get very far- its the principle.
Definately a short fix-. Extreme inconvienience when (and it will) break down. :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:

[urtwhistle]

all i have to say is forget the cheap crappy carby lpg systems spend the extra get a decent PRINS gas injection system and a decent piggy back ecu. instant 106ron rated fuel = more power. its alll in the tuning ppl. turbo's love lpg and yes they dooo burn cleaner theres no oil, on the down side if u got a motor with crappy heads u get valve seat recession.

[Chris_F]

all i have to say is forget the cheap crappy carby lpg systems spend the extra get a decent PRINS gas injection system and a decent piggy back ecu. instant 106ron rated fuel = more power. its alll in the tuning ppl. turbo's love lpg and yes they dooo burn cleaner theres no oil, on the down side if u got a motor with crappy heads u get valve seat recession.

interesting... still not sure how good running gas would be for the engine?

does the government subsidy cover a gas injection system?

[coladuna]

What is bad about the government offering $2000 for LPG conversions...? Its not as if your forced into it or anthing. It also creates more employment/work for those involved in the fitment of LPG systems.


It's not that it's bad. It doesn't really help a lot of people, does it?
I pay my share of tax and I have a right to complain if I don't benefit from it while others do.



Perhaps because they have a large number of people or large people to carry. How often is your boot packed to capacity annyway???


Another person who doesn't make sense when they say things.
How many people pack their boot space 100% of the time? However, you do need the space from time to time and LPG gas bottle isn't removable on demand, is it? Geez... the way people think...



I doubt LPG conversions would really have much effect - theres definatly demand in the used car market for LPG converted cars, buying one that is alrady converted saves people the time and money of doing it themselves.


I doubt there will be much demand for LPG converted Euros or any other up-market car for that matter. Try Falcon or Commodore next time.



Or perhaps its becaused theyve been disadvanted, or not had the oppertunity to be educated...having a tax break on petrol is only going to encourage more petrol usage, which is the last thing the goverment wants.


Who are you kidding? Australia has one of the best welfare systems in the world which is why the income tax rate is so bloody high. 99% of the time, if you try, there is always a way to be educated in Australia. They only have themselves to blame for their misfortune and I don't sympathise.



Yeh but $(100) of LPG will still get you further than ($100) of Petrol.

Just my thoughts ;)

Well, things are starting to mount against this brilliant subsidy, aren't they?
As people say, LPG price will probably go up rapidly, LPG doesn't last the distance, initial outlay of conversion, warranty issues and the list goes on.
Besides, it's not something that can be easily reversed if you think you made a wrong choice.

[Jaso]

Not every government scheme or grant is going to benefit everyone. If government funding goes to a hospitol are you going to complain just because you dont use that hospitol...?

There is demand for new and used LPG cars weather they are new or used. I know about three guys that run their falcons (Fairmont Ghias {Top of the line} RRP from $52,860 + onroads) on LPG. Someone else I know bought an LPG converted nissan patrol for $70, 000+. (Is $70, 000+ upmarket???)

The bottem line is that the LPG grant is a generous offering designed to help those who beleive they may benefit from a conversion of their vehicle to LPG. Of course its not going to benefit everyone...

[mattsama]

John Howard must be a stupid idiot if he thinks the government rebate on LPG conversion will help many families. How many people would seriously consider putting a freaking gas bottle in their boot, losing a significant part of boot space? What about resale value? Probably wouldn't matter if it's a beaten up Falcon/Commodore, but I highly doubt many people would even consider buying a second-hand Euro that's been converted to run on LPG. It would no doubt have effect on the resale value.
It's ridiculous he came up with a package that only benefits people who are willing to turn their beloved car into a frankenstein-mobile.

I certainly wouldn't convert my WRX to run on LPG and wouldn't do it to Euro if I still had it. If I could no longer afford to fill up the tanks, I'd rather sell the car and downsize.

This is true to a point, most people cannot afford the $3500 up front for a conversion and then wait around for the $2000 rebate.

[yfin]

The bottem line is that the LPG grant is a generous offering designed to help those who beleive they may benefit from a conversion of their vehicle to LPG. Of course its not going to benefit everyone...

True, true. But I can see Coladuna´s point too - why shouldnt he benefit with the cost of running a WRX or us with a Euro? This scheme disproportionately helps people with gas guzzling V8s and SUVs. We should be providing incentives to encourage people to move away from such vehicles.

[Jaso]

Just to stir the pot abit: (Rather contradictory to what im saying):

They say timing is everything. Only a month ago, poor old Special Minister of State Gary Nairn popped into the postbox a letter refusing a request from Labor's Jennie George for the Government's car fleet to be converted to LPG on the grounds that the fuel was not "readily available in all regional and rural areas".

"In addition, mandating the use of LPG fuel for all Australian Government vehicles would be inconsistent with the Australian Government's recent support of the use of ethanol-blended fuels and be contrary to existing industry development initiatives," he said. But then that naughty Prime Minister had to go and ruin that defence by offering motorists $2000 subsidies to convert to LPG as the centrepiece of his energy package on Monday. Rats!

Sprung, Nairn first blamed the advice of his department yesterday, then mused on how quickly things can change in energy policy, to cries of "Since July?" from Labor. "The whole world of energy has changed dramatically, even since July, it has, absolutely," he offered limply.


http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=19323&vf=2

However, just to give you an idea on facotry quoted fuel economy figures...:

WRX - 10.9L/100km (Combined)
Toyota Landcruiser Prado - 13.2L/100km (Combined)
Toyota Landcruiser TD - 11.1L/100km (Combined)
Lexus RX350 (Awesome 203kw V6) - 11.2L/100km (Combined)
Holden Commodore Omega - 10.9L/100km (Combined).

www.carsales.com.au

I dont reckon those SUV's and the Omega are that gas guzzling...considering the size of them.

[yfin]

I was more thinking V8s. Even the new Commodore V8 has a combined figure of 14+ on the front window. Real world figures can also wildly vary so it is not easy to always follow quoted consumption figures. I wonder whether Prado and Rx350 owners could achieve 13.2/11.2 around town...

[Jaso]

I doubt they would, but if you can afford to buy any three of those 4wds I dont think you would be worrying to much about the price of petrol (or diesel).

True the Commodores LS2 V8 is quite thirsty, but it accelerates the commodore to 100 in 5.4 seconds...in auto...which is pretty good considereing you only have to fork out 4*, 000k. Most people who buy V8's (WRX's etc etc) tend be car enthusiasts, which is why they bought the car in the first place. And are aware of additional costs such as higher insurance, premium, or extra fuel use.

Does anyone here run their Euro or any other car on LPG??? If so what do you think of it?

[aaronng]

Those numbers while are the ones quoted from the EPA fuel consumption tests, are not realistic and is usually not achievable in real life conditions. I remember reading a Commodore SS review (VY) and they got 17L/100km in testing on the open road and a bit of city. Wheels took the RX-8 onto the freeway and recorded 13L/100km (if I remember correctly) as well. EPA tests are usually under low load cruising conditions. Real life however include hills, overtaking and traffic lights.

[Nightrider]

A friend visted the United States recently. He commented that many motorists in the USA were (like here) were complining about the cost of fuel.

Petrol is approximately 78c US per litre or $1.00 AUS per litre atm.

Rather then focusing on how to use LESS fuel, in general public sentiment was more focused on how to crank up the oil reserves in Texas again to provide extra supply.

Diversifying fuel types and extending LPG usage is good but not the whole solution. A total reorientation of the value we place on oil and fuel in general is required now.

Thanks for the info whoever posted it on suitability to Honda engines very interesting.

[coladuna]

Not every government scheme or grant is going to benefit everyone. If government funding goes to a hospitol are you going to complain just because you dont use that hospitol...?


Of course it doesn't, but did you know that the current percentage of LPG vehicles on the road account for something like 4% of the total number of cars registered in Australia? Even with the rebate, can't see that number going off the chart or anything. So you think a subsidy that only helps a mere 10% of the population AT BEST is a smart idea? I think not.
BTW, please learn to spell HOSPITAL rather than saying HOSPITOL. it's cracking me up.



There is demand for new and used LPG cars weather they are new or used. I know about three guys that run their falcons (Fairmont Ghias {Top of the line} RRP from $52,860 + onroads) on LPG. Someone else I know bought an LPG converted nissan patrol for $70, 000+. (Is $70, 000+ upmarket???)

That proves there's a high demand, does it? You must know the entire Australian population.



The bottem line is that the LPG grant is a generous offering designed to help those who beleive they may benefit from a conversion of their vehicle to LPG. Of course its not going to benefit everyone...

Sure it's better than doing nothing, but John Howard is desperate because of people complaining of combined effect of interest rate rise, petrol price hike and grocery price. It was a desperate measure to get some points off the voters.

[aaronng]

My friend bought an ex-taxi LPG Falcon. Why? Because it was cheap $5000. Running costs? Same as petrol because of the reduced mileage.

[Chris_F]

^ if thats the case why do the cabbies even bother?

[Jaso]

Because they do enough driving per annum to make an LPG conversion viable.

@ coladuna

To cut the fuel price by 10c/litre it would cost the government 2-3 billion dollars each fiscal year. The idea of the government grant was to encourage diversity in the use of fuels and not a dependance on a single one. (Facts from HOR Question time ;) )

[msnealo]

EPA tests are usually under low load cruising conditions. Real life however include hills, overtaking and traffic lights.


Taken from here
fuel labels (http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/fuellabel/consumers.html)

"The new test cycle simulates an 11 km trip with an average speed of 33.6 km/h. Approximately two thirds of the test time simulates urban-stop-go driving where the average speed is 18.8 km/h with the final third of the test drive time being similar to driving on a highway with the vehicle driven up to over 100km/h"

[yfin]

Taken from here
fuel labels (http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/fuellabel/consumers.html)

"The new test cycle simulates an 11 km trip with an average speed of 33.6 km/h. Approximately two thirds of the test time simulates urban-stop-go driving where the average speed is 18.8 km/h with the final third of the test drive time being similar to driving on a highway with the vehicle driven up to over 100km/h"
So 33% is highway speeds.

I think they should scrap the combined test - having a city test would be far more useful IMO. So many people complain about not achieving the quoted "combined" figure. That is because most of us don't spend 33% of driving on the freeway in top gear. The new V8 commodores must be getting easily 17+ around town to drop down to a 14 combined.

[aaronng]

Taken from here
fuel labels (http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/fuellabel/consumers.html)

"The new test cycle simulates an 11 km trip with an average speed of 33.6 km/h. Approximately two thirds of the test time simulates urban-stop-go driving where the average speed is 18.8 km/h with the final third of the test drive time being similar to driving on a highway with the vehicle driven up to over 100km/h"
It doesn't mention for stop-go driving whether they give it more throttle to reach the speed of travel or if they use as little throttle as possible to get it up to speed. Neither are RPM shift points mentioned. I've driven with light throttle, shifting at 2000rpm and got 9.5L/100km in 80% city, 20% highway. So if you drive in that manner, you can get to the level of the fuel consumption label. Do most people drive like that? I think not. Because I was being overtaken at the lights by grannies driving the 1997 model Camry 2.2L auto. Heck, tiny daewoos, hyundais and even Daihatsu Terios' were quicker than I was. But at least I got better fuel consumption than the Terios (mum's Terios does 13L/100km in the city).

[aaronng]

^ if thats the case why do the cabbies even bother?
You got me there. I have no idea...