[Euro] Brake fluid/pad longevity

[aaronng]

Starting this thread so that people who experience a change in pedal feel can voice their complaints to get help and advice.

[ZEi20T]

i notice there is a HUGE difference between my 03 and my GFs 05 brakes. hers are touchy and very sentive. mine you need to stomp on. i think ill be getting the rotors machined and put new pads all round!

[aaronng]

i notice there is a HUGE difference between my 03 and my GFs 05 brakes. hers are touchy and very sentive. mine you need to stomp on. i think ill be getting the rotors machined and put new pads all round!
You 03 needs new brake fluid. LOL

[REV888]

You 03 needs new brake fluid. LOL

Since we are on the topic of brakes mine make a shoking noise when cold or really hot :( Worse is that when there hot they seem to loose pressure and I feel a pumping sensation.

Going into my dealer this friday. Last time they changed the pads 2 services ago & machined discs wonder what they will do now ?

[curik]

blck cat, how many bottles of brake fluid do you need? Is changing the fluid requires bleeding and all that stuff?

[aaronng]

Since we are on the topic of brakes mine make a shoking noise when cold or really hot :( Worse is that when there hot they seem to loose pressure and I feel a pumping sensation.

Going into my dealer this friday. Last time they changed the pads 2 services ago & machined discs wonder what they will do now ?
Shocking noise? Describe the noise better. Is it a squeal, a screech or a grind?

[aaronng]

blck cat, how many bottles of brake fluid do you need? Is changing the fluid requires bleeding and all that stuff?
Grey car in carpark, you technically need 1. But I found that I used 1.5 bottles when I changed my brake fluid. So always have at least 2 bottles ready. And never leave the bottle open exposed to the moisture in the air.

Read here on how to change brake fluid. http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11867
And yes, you change the fluid by bleeding the lines.

[REV888]

Shocking noise? Describe the noise better. Is it a squeal, a screech or a grind?

When Cold its a squeal when hot its a Screech & the main problem comes its a grind and a pluseating feeling :(.

At 18Km had new pads installed under warrenty & discs machined my honda dealer. (Reason old pads were heating to quick)

[ZEi20T]

You 03 needs new brake fluid. LOL

thanks i was going to do that as well :)

anyone used Motul RBF300? (i think its 300) i used it in my S15 and it was very nice.

EDIT: sorry its RBF600 (DOT5), the 300 is from their engine oil range

[curik]

Grey car in carpark, you technically need 1. But I found that I used 1.5 bottles when I changed my brake fluid. So always have at least 2 bottles ready. And never leave the bottle open exposed to the moisture in the air.

Read here on how to change brake fluid. http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11867
And yes, you change the fluid by bleeding the lines.

Thanks! I am at 15k atm, but my car is 2.5 yrs old, and the manual says brake fluid will be changed at 30mths service. Shall I go with the change?

I'm going with DOT 4. Is it fine? Will I notice any difference? Thanks blck cat!

[aaronng]

thanks i was going to do that as well :)

anyone used Motul RBF300? (i think its 300) i used it in my S15 and it was very nice.

EDIT: sorry its RBF600 (DOT5), the 300 is from their engine oil range
For street use, Honda brake fluid is fine. I hope you mean DOT5.1. DOT5 + DOT4 would gel up in your brake lines.

[aaronng]

Thanks! I am at 15k atm, but my car is 2.5 yrs old, and the manual says brake fluid will be changed at 30mths service. Shall I go with the change?

I'm going with DOT 4. Is it fine? Will I notice any difference? Thanks blck cat!
Are you feeling your brake pedal getting spongey? If you are, then change. Otherwise, just leave it. Honda fluid is DOT4.

[aaronng]

When Cold its a squeal when hot its a Screech & the main problem comes its a grind and a pluseating feeling :(.

At 18Km had new pads installed under warrenty & discs machined my honda dealer. (Reason old pads were heating to quick)
Hmm, not sure unless I feel the grind itself.

[ZEi20T]

the pulsating feeling would be warped rotors. like my car lol

[EuroDude]

erm, shouldnt u use honda brake fluid in the newer honda's?

[ant234]

When Cold its a squeal when hot its a Screech & the main problem comes its a grind and a pluseating feeling :(.


After my 30k service, when cold, it grind and plusate...
this has happened twice only and doesn't happen everytime...

but its ok after 20sec of driving so no idea ;/

[Tosh]

Iain,

Motul RBF600 is DOT 4. DOT 5 doesn't exist.. it's DOT 5.1

Also for the record, I don't see any need to use anything other than Honda fluid in the braking system. If Honda use a DOT 4 (which I imagine they would) then either put the genuine Honda fluid in or get some other good DOT 4 like Motul or ELF.

The Euro isnt really a sports car and I don't believe needs to be treated as such.

[Tosh]

I got my Euro with 17,000km on it and it now has 43,000km and the brakes are still great.

IMHO the braking system on the Euro is exceptionally well balanced for the car. I have on a few occasions given the brakes a hard time (as much as I am willing to on the street) and they have pulled up fine time and time again.

If the brakes have been skimmed once then Honda should check if they can do another skim before they hit minimum thickness, otherwise replace them if they're going to be below minimum. Generally you are allowed to have the rotos skimmed upto 2mm before you hit minimum thickness

[curik]

tosh you havent had a brake oil change yet?

[Tosh]

no I haven't, it hasn't been necessary. The brakes are as good today as the day I got the car. There is still plenty of pad compound left and the rotors are still good as well

[curik]

43000km and still no need to change brake oil? So the dealer didnt change it even though it is stated in the 30000 km/30 mths service?

[aaronng]

Brake fluid man... It's not an oil. :)

[ZEi20T]

Ahh thanks Tosh, i would look at the bottle of Brake Fluid but then id have to go outside lol

if its in the 30k service, i guess mine missed out!

[Slugoid]

Just an advice, don't mix different brake fluids!! So either use the same fluid in the system or make sure you really flush the whole system. If you're lazy like me, use the same fluid, bleed each corner 3-4 times and see if it improves pedal feel. If the fluid is black or grotty, just flush the whole system.

I'm starting to get a spongy feel in brakes of the Euro (03 model) so I guess it's time for me to check the pads and bleed the lines too. I think my brakes have lasted long enough (30,000km) with the way I drive :p

[TypeG]

thanks i was going to do that as well :)

anyone used Motul RBF300? (i think its 300) i used it in my S15 and it was very nice.

EDIT: sorry its RBF600 (DOT5), the 300 is from their engine oil range

I used Motul one while I fitting the spoon mono. It felt great..... maybe the new brake system or the motul or BOTH :cool:

[Tosh]

43000km and still no need to change brake oil? So the dealer didnt change it even though it is stated in the 30000 km/30 mths service?

nope no need at all.. the 30,000km service was done here @ work and checked it and it was still as new and felt no needto change it. Braking performance as I said is as good today as the day I got the car.

[REV888]

Hmm, not sure unless I feel the grind itself.


Well they finally did the right thing aaronng my discs were "faulty" and had hotspot areas says my dealer.

They replaced my two font discs & got a new set of brake pads. Problem has gone ;) at long last!

[aaronng]

Well they finally did the right thing aaronng my discs were "faulty" and had hotspot areas says my dealer.

They replaced my two font discs & got a new set of brake pads. Problem has gone ;) at long last!
Good stuff. At least now we know that the Euro's brake disc/pad combo is as prone as the TSX to leaving deposits and "hotspots"

[ZEi20T]

any idea if the 03 rotors are a different compound to the 04+ rotors?

this will determine if i buy new ones or machine my current ones :)

[aaronng]

any idea if the 03 rotors are a different compound to the 04+ rotors?

this will determine if i buy new ones or machine my current ones :)
03 and 04 rotors are the same. Not sure about 06.

[ZEi20T]

good enough for me!!

i got a set of bendix front pads. hope they should go ok. cheaper than the stockies at $80

[my_vtec77]

i have '05 18 months old euro with auto and done 35k. Do i need to change my brake pads coz when i push brake a bit harder, steering start shaking and i can even feel it on brake pedal too.:thumbdwn:

And last time i drove to wollongong and there's lots of up and down hills. after those hills my brake didnt work properly. i had to push really hard to slow down. That's was scary.. After few hours, it's back to normal though.

when i did 30k service in dealer, they didnt mention anything about brake pads. plz give me some advice..

[ZEi20T]

probably rotors are warped like mine, or they have that build up from the pads left on the rotors making it feel like they are warped.

[my_vtec77]

so nothing wrong with pads??? but how about after driving up and down the hills, brake doesnt work like normal. it takes longer than normal to slow down and i cant even feel it's braking or not. that's too risky. Anyway, thanks for your advice, ZEi20T.

[aaronng]

Brake rotors don't warp unless you splash water on them when they are hot.

You probably have brake deposits on your discs. Drive at the 110km/h speed limit, and when safe, brake as hard as possible down to 20km/h. Then drive back up to 110km/h and cruise for about 20 minutes without touching the brakes at all. This should remove your deposits.

Also, if you notice your brakes not working anymore after a drive in the hills, check your brake fluid. It should be a nice yellow with a slight brown tinge. If it is brown, then it is time to change it.

[ZEi20T]

of course you can warp brake rotors. some people drive straight to 70 (or whatever ks) in traffic and hit the brakes as hard as they can. heating them up too quickly will warp them. also people that ride the brakes will overheat them and warp them. its not all that hard. i did my stock rotors on my S15 in the same way.

[aaronng]

of course you can warp brake rotors. some people drive straight to 70 (or whatever ks) in traffic and hit the brakes as hard as they can. heating them up too quickly will warp them. also people that ride the brakes will overheat them and warp them. its not all that hard. i did my stock rotors on my S15 in the same way.
Overheating the rotors does not warp them. I've tried it. I went on the track, killed my DOT4 brake fluid (turned from yellow to dark brown), glazed my pads, grooved my rotors and made them turn blue all in 1 day. I was braking from 140km/h down to 40km/h. But I didn't use the brakes when my car was stationary (I used a brick). My rotors are not warped and there is no vibration.

[ZEi20T]

that blue colour is cool ay? :)

overheating rotors WILL warp them, like most cast metals - and all metals - they are affected by heat. this is why an engine block will crack if it overheats. i guess if you heat them up evenly then they should be ok.

anyway, the fact that it didnt happen to yours is a good thing. but to be safe, im machining mine before changing the brake linings. that and the fact that the surfaces are also lines

what year is your euro? maybe there WAS a rotor compound change in the years? this might be why some cars had rotors and pads changed under warranty?

[aaronng]

that blue colour is cool ay? :)

overheating rotors WILL warp them, like most cast metals - and all metals - they are affected by heat. this is why an engine block will crack if it overheats. i guess if you heat them up evenly then they should be ok.

anyway, the fact that it didnt happen to yours is a good thing. but to be safe, im machining mine before changing the brake linings. that and the fact that the surfaces are also lines

what year is your euro? maybe there WAS a rotor compound change in the years? this might be why some cars had rotors and pads changed under warranty?
Yup, even heating is the way. The engine block/head can crack because of the coolant lines. On the coolant side, it's 90-100C, on the combustion chamber side, it's probably over 400 C.

My Euro's an 04'. So it's still the original spec without any upgrades to the brake rotor and pad materials.

[my_vtec77]

Brake rotors don't warp unless you splash water on them when they are hot.

You probably have brake deposits on your discs. Drive at the 110km/h speed limit, and when safe, brake as hard as possible down to 20km/h. Then drive back up to 110km/h and cruise for about 20 minutes without touching the brakes at all. This should remove your deposits.

Also, if you notice your brakes not working anymore after a drive in the hills, check your brake fluid. It should be a nice yellow with a slight brown tinge. If it is brown, then it is time to change it.


.....thanks arronng, i'll try it one day. Is the brake fluid for euro normal DOT4 or something special?? I'll check brake fluid today.

[mastcell]

.....thanks arronng, i'll try it one day. Is the brake fluid for euro normal DOT4 or something special?? I'll check brake fluid today.

read your car manual. you will get all the brake fluid specifications there. ;)

[Omotesando]

I think depending on the Rotor's construction and how its been tempered, that sometimes HEAT can warp the rotors. They just don't heat up and cool down evenly even if you do nothing wrong such as splashing them with water or resting on the brakes at the red lights or after tracking.

In fact, some aftermarket rotors crack due to construction methods and it is inevitable related to how heat is dissipated :(

So you could say heat warps the rotors although if being technical, its not the main reason. Its uneven heat. But that heat had to come from somewhere I guess :)

[my_vtec77]

read your car manual. you will get all the brake fluid specifications there. ;)

.. oh.. i forget that. thanks.

[euro77]

.....thanks arronng, i'll try it one day. Is the brake fluid for euro normal DOT4 or something special?? I'll check brake fluid today.

euro comes with DOT4 break fluid

[Suntzu]

Old thread ressurrection warning:

I changed my pad yesterday to endless SS cause they started to get spongy.Low and behold my oem pads were 95%. So its not the pads. I change them anyways, and they are still spongy. The fluid is very BROWN. Im guessing it the fluid? Should I claim a warranty this??

BTW: I have some front OEM pads for sale they are approx 95%. Rears are 60%.

[aaronng]

Of course it's the fluid. It's not covered under warranty. Doesn't cost too much to have it changed out. Under $100 I reckon, or just the cost of the fluid if you have jackstands to DIY.

[Suntzu]

I do have jackstands, but do i need them, can i just pump and bleed from each corner for a bit till it changes color or is that no good?

[aaronng]

If your resevoir fluid is still good you can. If the resevoir fluid is black, try to suck out as much as you can from it and then top it up with fresh fluid. Then start bleeding the brakes at each corner. Start from front driver, front passenger, rear driver and rear passenger. (opposite to the older Hondas)

[Min988]

I've bled brakes on other cars before but none with VSA/TCS/ABS yet, is there anything I need to do extra when changing ie. bleeding the brake fluid in regards to the VSA System that I should be considering?

[aaronng]

Nope, same as any other honda with low pressure ABS. Only difference I've seen is that the service manual says to bleed from front driver, front passenger, rear driver, rear passenger. That is opposite to the older Hondas.

[biee2]

sometimes when i brake and lik run over a little bump or the road isnt that smooth it feels lik the brake pads have lik fallen off.....i dont know why. i can feel it through the pedals...its starts to lik shake and vibrate bad. doesnt happen all the time onli sometimes out of th blue. any one have the same problem??

[aaronng]

sometimes when i brake and lik run over a little bump or the road isnt that smooth it feels lik the brake pads have lik fallen off.....i dont know why. i can feel it through the pedals...its starts to lik shake and vibrate bad. doesnt happen all the time onli sometimes out of th blue. any one have the same problem??

No, that is not a problem. It is your ABS working. I the same effect when braking at speed over bumps.