Brake upgrades

[4000gt]

Ok, i bought a set of ap Racing calipers for a project (not honda). I was misinformed about the rotor size these calipers can support (there was no info on the net, so i had to trust the guy). Anyhow, after i bought the calipers, i had them checked out by a brakes shop and found out these can only take 310mm rotors which would be way too small for my intended purpose. I was hoping for 355.

Anyhow, that's another story, so i have these calipers, 4 pot fronts with 40mm pistons, and 4 pot rear with 25mm pistons. Would these be overkill on a honda? I guess it would kickarse for a track car, but is it excessive for a street car? If so, i may just sell them, otherwise i may consider them for my EJ.

[Zdster]

IMO this would be overkill for the street and maybe even on a track car (maybe not the fronts, but definetly on the rear).

[4000gt]

hmmmm, yeah i was thinking even the smaller piston rear pair would work extremely well for the fronts of a honda, hehe.

[blackdc2]

let me know if you are going to sell the setup

[iamhappy46]

Depends on the bolt to bolt distance and how it offsets the caliper in relation to the hub as to whether it will fit on a Honda.

Have you got a picture or a link to what they look like?

[4000gt]

Depends on the bolt to bolt distance and how it offsets the caliper in relation to the hub as to whether it will fit on a Honda.

Have you got a picture or a link to what they look like?

Mate, those issues would be sorted with the custom caliper adaptors that will be required anyways.... Rarely do you find aftermarket setups that will be bolt on. All the kits out there require adaptor brackets also.....

I will take some pics and post them up sometime soon (monday or tuesday).

blackdc2, i am already thinking about selling them.

[4000gt]

so these are probably overkill on a honda aye???

Note: there was some brake fluid residue on the calipers which caused the paint to bubble and peel...

Anyways, i reckon even the rear calipers would be crazy on the front of any honda bar the nsx.

[jamchen]

guess a 4WD would be more suitable??:P
i've been thinking to upgrade our family's MDX's brakes for a long time...
will they suit 300mm and 305mm rotors?

[4000gt]

Well, they're used on 310mm, but there would be no issues going 300, and 305... I even considered slightly machining them to clear 330, but decided to just go another setup. Let me know if you're interested anyhow.

[iamhappy46]

AP racing make their calipers so that they are a bolt on kit. Otherwise, you yourself could turn around and make spacers to join your existing hub and those calipers with a spacer plate.

The spacer plate would still be required on a Honda as those hub mounting holes to rotor clearance in the caliper, would only allow around a 280mm rotor. Not to mention the hub bolt to hub bolt spacing is not compatable with a Honda hub... Most RWD hubs locate the caliper to hub attachment bolts much further from the centre of the hub to clear larger diameter rotors.

Then there is the issue of having a rotor MADE to suit, as the dimensions would be unique due to caliper offset, the PCD, stud pattern, etc

[4000gt]

Mate, your description is just confusing. Like i said, adaptor brackets will be needed... You also dont necessarily have to have rotors made up specifically for the setup.... something within 20mm either way would work also... so you may be able to use something off the shelf that is compatible with your model of car.

Anyhow, these probably are abit excessive for a honda....

[iamhappy46]

Why not use adaptor brackets to space these calipers out the required distance for your application?

Try finding rotors to suit the Honda stud pattern, PCD and the offset of the rotor so that the actual surface of the rotor sits in the centreline of the caliper, which would allow a brake pad to sit either side of the caliper.

20mm either way would not work when you go to get the brake upgrade engineered.

[4000gt]

Mate, i've had quite a number of brake conversions engineered and i have never had an issue before..... strangest one being commdore calipers and ford rotors on an ae86.... i do know what i am talking about.

The reason it does not suit my application? Just doesn't seem enough to stop a v12 twin turbo supra now, does it? I'm eventually going for Brembo 8 piston with 380mm rotors..... will sit behind my 19x12 FRONT wheels.

[RBS]

These calipers are lug mounted and look like they are made for a specific car as most of the AP Racing calipers i sell are radial mounted(bolt down through the caliper body) and yes brackets would have to be made to fit them.They also look like they don't have dust boots on the pistons which can also cause you grief for road use.

[4000gt]

RBS, they are a special make for US stock cars.... they are lug mounted, and yeah, no dust boots, so there is more cleaning required.... they are RACING brakes after all (and not just by name).

[iamhappy46]

So with these calipers bolted to a US stock car hub, they most likely would have 355mm of clearance. Most people who have done a few brake upgrades consider that before they purchase them ;) However, obviously custom caliper adaptor brackets would enable you to use just about any size rotor you wish...

I doubt that many engineers would pass calipers without dust seals for a street car either...

I have done a few brake upgrades in my time as well :) Anyway, good luck with the TT V12 project...

[4000gt]

engineers are funny people.... you wont find one the same as the next....

Thanks about my project... it's a big dollar, big power slow build.

[RBS]

[QUOTE=4000gt]engineers are funny people.... you wont find one the same as the next....

Your not wrong there (lol)
We done a brake job for a bloke who was told by an engineer was ok and when he went to get it passed by another engineer he wanted extra changes done.

[4000gt]

Here are the part numbers for the calipers. It wont be listed on the site, so dont bother looking there. Be better off emailing ap racing directly.

oh yeah, i have a brand new set of matching pads also.

cp 5751-123 iss.3 front serial number
cp 4781-102 iss1 rear serial number

[Mr_will]

Mate, i've had quite a number of brake conversions engineered and i have never had an issue before..... strangest one being commdore calipers and ford rotors on an ae86.... i do know what i am talking about.

The reason it does not suit my application? Just doesn't seem enough to stop a v12 twin turbo supra now, does it? I'm eventually going for Brembo 8 piston with 380mm rotors..... will sit behind my 19x12 FRONT wheels.



for someone who claims to have had a number of brake conversions engineered, its surprising that you dont know the size of rotor/specs you would be after.

you have bought a 4 piston setup when youre eventually going for 8 piston brembos? in addition to the fact that there are ( obviously) double the number of pistons, the price difference would be very significant, so maybe you needed to get a clearer picture of what you were wanting before you open your wallet.

care to tell us what sort of v12 youre going to be putting in a supra, and more importantly how youre going to make it fit? and how you are fitting 12' wheels on a supra....i say picsorban

[4000gt]

Mate, i knew what i was after, i was just misinformed. I did what anyone would do and checked the part numbers against the AP catalogue.... there was no match.... i figured out it was probably a custom order (which it is...) The guy i bought these from told me they'd accept 355mm. This is true with little modifications. I was after something that was specifically made for at least 355... these were not, but again, can be with little modification (slight machining on the underside outer edges).

Also something to note, these were meant for a smaller conversion..... at that stage, i did not come into possession of my v12, so i figured it would have been more than enough....at the time.

I do understand the price difference between a 4 piston at all corner brake setup versus a 8 front, 4 or 6 rear setup.... to give it a number, around $4k =)... now i may sound abit defensive, but maybe you should get a clearer picture of the complete story before you mouth off...

I think i said earlier i wasnt going to go into detail about my conversion seeing as it isnt a honda and all, but since you asked.....

Here is a link to a pic of my wheels.
http://www.supraforums.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16285&d=1152883677

EDIT: forgot to add i am going widebody (obviously) to accomodate the massive wheels. This will be a one off custom kit made by myself. The guards, front and back, are all being pumped out 110mm. Tyres will be 295/35/19 front, and 345/35/19 rear, which happens to be ferrari enzo oem tyres (Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Scuderia).

I am using a 1GZ-FE found in the late model "Century", toyota's flagship... interesting fact, the japanese royal family is driven around in one of these... it's mainly used by head of states, and big shot businessmen. It has a rated power of 206 kw (underated if anything) and off the chart torque figures. It's all alloy, quad cam, 48 valve, factory forged steel crank and possibly other internals (typical toyota), dual vvti, titanium coated valve train....
Physical dimentions are:
Length 750mm (similar to 2jz)
width 650mm (narrower than 2jz)
height 750mm (slightly taller than 2jz).
Bore vs stroke 81mm x 80.8mm (same bore as b16a)...

Eventually, there may be 12 TB's sitting in my engine bay, and may even possibly go bi turbo....

Anything else?

[Mr_will]

id say like many other people reading this thread, i'll believe it when i see it.

[4000gt]

like it matters to me whether you or anyone else believes it... heck, other people's opinions wont bother me either... that said, there are 2 jza80 supra's currently being prepared for this particular v12 conversion... mine is one, the other belongs to a fellow supra owner from darwin....