[Euro] Apexi Power Intake (was AaronNg's "Secret Weapon" *REVEALED*)

[EuroAccord13]

Muahahahahah...

TEASER SHOTS TIME!!!!!

His Euro's latest mod, as far as I know, he's the only one to have it :D


Ok... It's made in Japan....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A3.jpg


It's shiny... VERY SHINY!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A4.jpg


I'll let Aaron tell you about it when I send it over to him hahahahahaha!!!!

All I can say is... You're PAYING FOR THE QUALITY AND FINISH!!!!

Have fun....

[EuroDude]

Do I smell something Mandrel Bent? :p

[mugen88]

Header??

Could be an exhaust judging by the two different flanges.

[aaronng]

Drool..................... http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7718/droolrh0.gif

[Chris_F]

and the guessing game is on...

only one to have it... exhaust by the looks... hmmmm

[Chris_F]

My guess... Spoon N1 catback?

[SiR JDM]

Straight thro pipe (cat replacement ;) ) hahah *shrugs*?

[Chris_F]

^ wrong... coz there's a bend haha

[panda[cRx]]

idea bunk bed frame?

[NeRV]

is it a vacumm cleaner from japan?

[EuroDude]

its an air intake

[EuroDude]

Apexi Short Ram Intake ;)

http://www.eastwood.mb.ca/catalog_images/AEM_22-425.jpg

[raz05]

looks like sth to do with the exhaust to me

[tRipitaka]

is it a bong.

[JINRAI]

maxim headers ftw

[sodaz]

Looks like an exhaust to me too...

[mugen88]

Could it be a "Feels" N1 or even more special an Amuse exo?

[ZEi20T]

fujitsubo exhaust?

[Chris_F]

def. an exhaust part... not maxim works header, not feels n1 or amuse, nor is it fujitsubo... apparently he's the only one that has this to public (forum) knowledge. and all those items - someone already has :/

my guess is still spoon N1 or something like that... something you've never seen on a CL9 on an aussy forum is my guess...

i wish cat-man would just come clean lol

[JINRAI]

hehe spoon is not drool worthy

[Chris_F]

i drool on my spoons all the time... Im still guessing to what it could be though... just know its none of those others (at least not by what's been said so far)

[BusterSonic12]

HKS silent hi power~!!!! ;) jokes

[dundas]

omg that looks like my antenna

[Q_ball]

is it a bong.
Only Bong would know :)

[BlitZ]

t-wing?

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

hotdog cooker

[Chris_F]

actually... he said it was related to an STD... so maybe it's a penis enlargement device... makes sense it's from Japan (jk)

[misteR_bilzz]

Guessing from your sig. EuroAccord13 its either a DC Sports Headers OR a Custom Magnaflow Single Outlet Race Series???

[EuroAccord13]

Guessing from your sig. EuroAccord13 its either a DC Sports Headers OR a Custom Magnaflow Single Outlet Race Series???


Dude, that item might be with me but it's AaronNg's mod not mine LOL :wave: :D

[Hoyle]

OMG... It's Japanese bubble wrap with a metal pipe to stop it blowing away!

[EuroDude]

Its the 2-1 part of a 4-2-1 header

http://store.clubrsx.com/graphics/00000001/DCS-AHC6016_thumb.jpg

[curik]

No its not a header, it doesnt have the rubber hanger. Most likely an exhaust system. The diameter seems like about 2.5 inch by comparing it to the size of the bubblewrap, so it must be one. Since it is from japan, could it be doraemon?

[Q_ball]

NOS bottle??

[euro77]

it's a bazooka.... it's secret weapon, what else do you think it would be??? LOL

[EuroDude]

ifs its not part of a header, then its a catback exhaust pipe, or the part connecting to the header

http://www.boomplustoys.net/images/mugen/mugen_tsx_exhaust_1.jpg

[EuroAccord13]

Keep Guessing Guys...

Some nice guesses there I read.... Mmmmmm......

Makes me wanna do another TEASER SHOT to reveal a little more clue!! :D :D

*Staring at it now*

[euro77]

any price for correctly guessing what it is? Maybe a first chance to taste it? LOL

[EuroDude]

lol give us another clue ... we know its part of an exhaust.

It cant be an SRI even though you sneaked the pics in a folder called "Apexi SRI" :p

[curik]

give us some more hints or i will headbutt that cat in the chest

[EuroAccord13]

lol give us another clue ... we know its part of an exhaust.

It cant be an SRI even though you sneaked the pics in a folder called "Apexi SRI" :p


Mmmmm... Seems like someone caught my trick....


Teaser Shots?????

[EuroDude]

Mmmmm... Seems like someone caught my trick....
Teaser Shots?????

lol had me there for a second

[xiang]

Comptech trolley pole 2000

[amato2]

is it maybe something to do with a turbo application....maybe its a dump pipe for a euro turbo system.........just a guess

[EuroAccord13]

I've decided to stop posting teaser shots...

Too much and Aaron won't have anything left to say LOL!!

Gotta admit though, lots of GREAT ANSWERS!!!!!

*Goes to pack the stuff back into the box and seal it for delivery*

[aaronng]

Everyones imagination is amazing. I am impressed. :thumbsup:

[Omotesando]

Some kind of air intake?

The flange on the first pic looks like its not exhaust related!

[EuroDude]

is it maybe something to do with a turbo application....maybe its a dump pipe for a euro turbo system.........just a guess

hms a turbo or supercharger part is possible.

but i still think its exhaust/header related :p

[jdm_kid]

its a exhaust piping, if it was a header, it would be more blingly n more stylish and would have the "valueable" look

[Tobster]

It's stainless steel, with a flange which fits the exhaust (no intake has metal flanges that I'm aware of), and nobody has one.

I'm going for Mugen header (possibly full exhaust) -- which comes with a test pipe that slots in place of the cat.

[Chris_F]

mugen header doesnt come with a test pipe, but a full cat. Toda header comes with a test pipe but isn't a buffed polished finish

[Tobster]

My apologies for confusing my headers. :)

I'm still going Mugen...

(Interesting: after all this recent header discussion about flex joints, I just realised the Mugen header doesn't have one!)

[Omotesando]

I still think its Intake related. That flange looks more suitable for an APEXi filter, its the only filter I'm aware of that has that shape of connection.

Although my 2nd guess will be an expensive High-Flow Cat from Japan, although not sure where the bend really fits in. The ones with the spiral honeycombs inside it that cost $600+.

Hmmm.. what a teaser :)

[Chris_F]

My apologies for confusing my headers. :)

I'm still going Mugen...

(Interesting: after all this recent header discussion about flex joints, I just realised the Mugen header doesn't have one!)

haha, easy mistake to make... I found it interesting that the mugen didn't have any either... IMO not a good thing considering the k24 does move around quite a bit. Though i think some joints are flex joints.

[SiReal]

maybe its a roll cage yahooooOO!O!!!

[Omotesando]

Actually, it could be a stainless steel bucket seat for AARONNG's black cat, come to think of it!

[xtercii]

Exotic pole dancing pole…

[Chris_F]

haha, well apparently this mod will make his car 'roar'... so unless the exotic pole dancing pole, steel bucket seat, or roll cage come with a lion or a sound effects module it's unlikely LOL.

and i HIGHLY doubt it's any sort of intake. IMO it's def. an exhaust... just one we've never seen before

[EuroDude]

yep its too hardcore for an intake, four bolts is overkill. Plus there isnt any section to bolt into the throttle body like that.

[Unkie]

It's the Hondata exhaust finally back from overseas!!
:D

[bennjamin]

umm...did anyone look at its location ? lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A4.jpg

[Q_ball]

^ROFL!!
Awww shiet..
Ben let the cat out of the bag :p

[aaronng]

Actually, it could be a stainless steel bucket seat for AARONNG's black cat, come to think of it!
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2041/angrydrivercatop6.jpg


umm...did anyone look at its location ? lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/A4.jpg
Refer to EuroDude's post. :)

[Chris_F]

^lmao

[curik]

he is no longer black since he has stuck the optional white racing strips on it

[Omotesando]

Yeah - actually who was it that kept calling his cat a black one in the first place? :D Did the cat pic change btw?

Anyway, still can't decide what the W.O.M.D. is... upon looking closer the 1st and 2nd pic looks like the same side of the pipe. There could be some secret that could be revealed from the other side :)

[Omotesando]

It's the Hondata exhaust finally back from overseas!!
:D

That's a good one! :D

[EuroAccord13]

I think it's time Aaron show the crowd what the actual mod is LOL!!!!!

All I will say is.... There were some SPOT ON ANSWERS.....

[EuroDude]

Bring it on :thumbsup:

I still think its the 2-1 part of a 4-2-1 header ;)

[DreadAngel]

It must be like a dinosaur's penis cause a whale's penis isn't as big

[aaronng]

Hehe, okok. Actually......... Eurodude got it right at first (I bet it's a guess through the folder name rather than the pics).

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6886/apexirb2.jpg

How is it? 4000rpm @ full throttle has the well-loved vtec sound. Using 1/2 throttle, it sounds like stock up to 5000rpm, just slightly louder (but not noticeably louder). If I didn't tell you about it, you wouldn't realise it even if you were riding in the car.

[DreadAngel]

Wah!!! Dinosaur's Penis, so bling bling!!!

Eurodude is da bomb for pickin' it up even if its by the folder name

[EuroDude]

lol well my first assumption was an intake, then I saw the ApexiSRI folder name ;)

Where does the other side bolt in? Any pics?

[curik]

Stock tubing is used? Quite a nice idea! How much fur did you have to sacrifice to get this?

[BusterSonic12]

i saw it today.... damn loud if full gas + vtec.... jesss,, my comptech icebox feels weak now :(

euroaccord13: thanks for the lower arm brace ;) cheers~!!

[EuroAccord13]

LOL ! I had you all there didn't I Muahahaha...

Stupid me to put it in the Apexi SRI folder LOL!!!!

BusterSonic ---- You're Welcomed, hope the bar arrived intact LOL! Have fun with it too!!!

[Tarks]

its a kebab..
oh w8 its already been revealed, my bad aarroonngg

[corn_flakes]

hopefully if i get a few missing pieces by friday, i'll have something sort of similar when i turn up to the meet....;)

[Suntzu]

Im a bit of a noob with CAI as I havent found one I'd like to install yet and still waiting for Hondata ..ppffft

IS that is a good spot to get cold air?

[yfin]

It is a short ram - excellent for power gains in short spurts - eg on a dyno or a run on the 1/4. Even better than a CAI for peak power gains as the engine has to create less vacuum to suck in the same amount of air.

But in day to day driving it gets too damn hot in that Euro engine bay for this to be a good option. I don't think there is very good airflow in the engine bay to force the hot air out. Just my opinion.

But if I suspect correctly - Aarong knows that and has plans for some sort of shield and piping of cold air to the area.

[Chris_F]

nice aaronng! Had me fooled... and i thought EuroAccord13, was being honest when he said it was put under 'apexi SRI' to fool us... damnit! That flange really through me off though. Bet it sounds a treat :D

[yfin]

Stock tubing is used? Quite a nice idea! How much fur did you have to sacrifice to get this?
That plastic tubing is actually very good! It should pick up less heat than metal tubing.

[EuroDude]

So its considered a HAI then ;) Cut a scoop into the corner of the bonnet :D

So roughly how much was the whole thing?
Plus I imagine the filter is oil based yeah? So it also needs to be in a box for legal reasons.

[yfin]

I saw on acurazine someone fitted a filter directly to the OEM plastic pipe - it was a HUGE pod filter. I tried to find the link but the site is down again.

[aaronng]

It's not good at all for cold air. LOL.
yfin is right, it's only good for artificially inflated dyno numbers (who drives with their bonnet up?).
I'll be making an enclosure for it from aluminium. It'll be a dodgy DIY. There will be 2 versions. One will be a Mi Goreng cardboard enclosure. Will be fun but I don't fancy setting my car on fire. The Mi Goreng enclosure will be used as a template for the sheet aluminium. Lots of rivets and rubber edging to seal it will be used. Dremel and drills are ready to go as well. Now... I just need to find the time.

[aaronng]

nice aaronng! Had me fooled... and i thought EuroAccord13, was being honest when he said it was put under 'apexi SRI' to fool us... damnit! That flange really through me off though. Bet it sounds a treat :D
Yeah, remember when I kept mentioning that low cam on the Euro was very aggressive and high cam was not much more aggressive and so you don't get a vtec kick? Well, I get the vtec induction roar at 4000rpm (low cam). When it passes 6000rpm, it doesn't get much louder. Just a little bit louder.

Power-wise, no difference from the stock airbox without the resonator. Will need my enclosure and piping to the fog light cover to complete this mod.

[EuroAccord13]

Those meeting up on Friday take note of how the SRI actually looks heaps better!!!! Photos don't do justice for that quality unit!


Mi Goreng Box + Apexi SRI = Good Enclosure...

Next up will be EuroAccord13's Teaser shots coming up probably end of this week... ----> Hint: It will be a Hybrid experimental....

[yfin]

It's not good at all for cold air. LOL.
yfin is right, it's only good for artificially inflated dyno numbers (who drives with their bonnet up?).
I'll be making an enclosure for it from aluminium. It'll be a dodgy DIY. There will be 2 versions. One will be a Mi Goreng cardboard enclosure. Will be fun but I don't fancy setting my car on fire. The Mi Goreng enclosure will be used as a template for the sheet aluminium. Lots of rivets and rubber edging to seal it will be used. Dremel and drills are ready to go as well. Now... I just need to find the time.

So basically you are going for Chris_F's intake minus the carbon and the cost aye? :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

So its considered a HAI then ;) Cut a scoop into the corner of the bonnet :D

So roughly how much was the whole thing?
Plus I imagine the filter is oil based yeah? So it also needs to be in a box for legal reasons.
Price was around the $250 mark. Not cheap, but build quality is superb. And that filter is a dry filter. No oil, but I bet the cops would still get me for an exposed pod. Sound-wise.... it's heaps heaps heaps louder than a CAI.

[aaronng]

Stock tubing is used? Quite a nice idea! How much fur did you have to sacrifice to get this?
Had to sacrifice the kitty's head..... Poor kitty. I'll miss you...

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7990/catakewr0.jpg

[aaronng]

So basically you are going for Chris_F's intake minus the carbon and the cost aye? :thumbsup:
Yup! Nothing to lose except time. Will be fun. Hope to get some good pics for the DIY, but it depends as once I start work on it, I don't stop to take pics. LOL

[Chris_F]

Yeah, remember when I kept mentioning that low cam on the Euro was very aggressive and high cam was not much more aggressive and so you don't get a vtec kick? Well, I get the vtec induction roar at 4000rpm (low cam). When it passes 6000rpm, it doesn't get much louder. Just a little bit louder.

Power-wise, no difference from the stock airbox without the resonator. Will need my enclosure and piping to the fog light cover to complete this mod.
hehe yep, you hear it at 4000rpm? Damn! Must be loud... but I bet its gooood loud, I love the sound of pod filters. Interesting that yours was louder than a CAI too. I know my SRI intake is quieter than an Injen CAI, maybe when you heat-shield yours youll cancel out some of the volume too?


So basically you are going for Chris_F's intake minus the carbon and the cost aye? :thumbsup:
haha, I was just thinking that :p

edit: LOL at the cats head SRI

[aaronng]

hehe yep, you hear it at 4000rpm? Damn! Must be loud... but I bet its gooood loud, I love the sound of pod filters. Interesting that yours was louder than a CAI too. I know my SRI intake is quieter than an Injen CAI, maybe when you heat-shield yours youll cancel out some of the volume too?

It should muffle some of it. But aluminium is more flexible than CF, so it would still be loud or actually even change the tone of the induction roar.

[yfin]

It should muffle some of it. But aluminium is more flexible than CF, so it would still be loud or actually even change the tone of the induction roar.
Just thinking out aloud - couldn't you glue some rubbber or foam to the inside dimensions of the box? That would take out some of the sound. An insulated DIY box would be a first - never seen that.

[free2d]

Isnt like HKS SRI?

[curik]

Had to sacrifice the kitty's head..... Poor kitty. I'll miss you...

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7990/catakewr0.jpg


LOL that cracked me up. Now is the time to replace your "blocked filter" signature

[aaronng]

Just thinking out aloud - couldn't you glue some rubbber or foam to the inside dimensions of the box? That would take out some of the sound. An insulated DIY box would be a first - never seen that.
Yeah, it would reduce some of the sound that is passes on through the vibrating edges of the aluminium sheet. But the middle parts of the aluminium will also vibrate and that is where the majority of the noise will pass through. Hmmmmm... insulated DIY box... that's interesting. I might get a sheet of thin rubber from Clark's and give it a whirl.

[yfin]

Yeah, it would reduce some of the sound that is passes on through the vibrating edges of the aluminium sheet. But the middle parts of the aluminium will also vibrate and that is where the majority of the noise will pass through. Hmmmmm... insulated DIY box... that's interesting. I might get a sheet of thin rubber from Clark's and give it a whirl.
Give it a try. It could even make the box cooler with the insulation.

The only posible down side is whether or not rubber would upset the flow of air in the box as it is not a slippery smooth surface. I don't really understand exactly the science of airflow but as you can see in the OEM box there are ripples and strips - they all create resistence. They are carefully placed to maximise torque. In the Icebox the ripples in the top box are removed to focus more on top end power rather than max torque. Bizarre science. So the insulation could help with torque but perhaps not with top end gains.

[zco]

its a sex toy

[Tobster]

I saw on acurazine someone fitted a filter directly to the OEM plastic pipe - it was a HUGE pod filter. I tried to find the link but the site is down again.
I think you may be thinking of this one:

http://www.sca40.com/intake/

[aaronng]

Update: Redid the mounting as I was using only 1 support bracket. I put in the other bracket and repositioned the filter. Now the filter and pipe is very sturdy. But the changed angle gives it a little bend where the rubber piping meet the steel piping. The sound has changed as well. Now, I can hear the intake even at 2500rpm with 1/4 throttle. But, the induction roar is now more of a pulsating sound. Kind of like the offspring of a super loud comptech icebox and a WRX. On the bright side, once it crosses 6000rpm.... DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL........ I need to take a vid to show you guys.

Cliffs: Redid mounting, changed angle. Lowcam sounds like a loud comptech icebox or WRX. Highcam made me cream in my pants.

[EuroDude]

Got any updated pics? :)

[|N|]

Update: Redid the mounting as I was using only 1 support bracket. I put in the other bracket and repositioned the filter. Now the filter and pipe is very sturdy. But the changed angle gives it a little bend where the rubber piping meet the steel piping. The sound has changed as well. Now, I can hear the intake even at 2500rpm with 1/4 throttle. But, the induction roar is now more of a pulsating sound. Kind of like the offspring of a super loud comptech icebox and a WRX. On the bright side, once it crosses 6000rpm.... DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL........ I need to take a vid to show you guys.

Cliffs: Redid mounting, changed angle. Lowcam sounds like a loud comptech icebox or WRX. Highcam made me cream in my pants.

we ll make one this weekend ok ?

compare b and k series

[aaronng]

It still looks the same. I just used the 2nd supplied bracket. The kit didn't come with instructions, so it was a guessing game. I ended up with a leftover bracket, a hose clamp and a screw. LOL

Put that all in and the only difference from the pics above is the hose clamp. You won't notice the bend as it is compensated for by the flexible tube.

[aaronng]

we ll make one this weekend ok ?

compare b and k series
Yup! With EuroAccord13's help, I've found a supplier for the sheet aluminium. The stuff sold at bunnings is too thin and too expensive at $30 a sheet. This place should be selling thicker stuff for a cheaper price. My rubber mallet is ready! All we need is a plank of wood.

[|N|]

Yup! With EuroAccord13's help, I've found a supplier for the sheet aluminium. The stuff sold at bunnings is too thin and too expensive at $30 a sheet. This place should be selling thicker stuff for a cheaper price. My rubber mallet is ready! All we need is a plank of wood.

get me some too

[aaronng]

get me some too
Need to get the mi goreng boxes first! Can't work out how big a sheet we need without making the mi goreng airbox.

[euro77]

find an indo, we are most likely have the box LOL

[sodaz]

Just get any cardboard box. There are much better boxes than Mi Goreng ones, which can be quite flimsy.

You're planning to build a heatshield around the filter so it won't get the hot air from the engine bay? Even with a design like the Gruppe M you'll still get heat from the engine bay because there's no inlet for cold air. Unless there's a way to duct cold air like the comptech icebox horn to a pod filter don't you think there wouldn't be much of a performance gain once the engine bay heats up? And the Euro engine bay heats up FAST.

[yfin]

Even with a design like the Gruppe M you'll still get heat from the engine bay because there's no inlet for cold air. Unless there's a way to duct cold air like the comptech icebox horn to a pod filter don't you think there wouldn't be much of a performance gain once the engine bay heats up?
Not really - look closely at the pic below. Right of the battery and below the pod filter there is now a hole which used to house a pipe feed to the resonator.

So if Aarong boxes up that area and the pod - it will create a vacuum which will draw air mostly from that cavity. As the cavity essentially leads to the front bumper and the vented undercarriage - it is much cooler air than the actual engine bay. Same thing for the Gruppe M - it should be getting the air mostly from the cavity just like the Injen/K&N or the Comptech. Sure you are going to get some heat transferred through the box but it is better than just a pod in the engine bay.


http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6886/apexirb2.jpg

[sodaz]

I see. Got it. :thumbsup:

[Chris_F]

^ yep yfin's got the idea... even after a long stint of hard driving the gruppeM heat shield was cool to the touch (not even warm). It also helps if you make some venting in the foglight cover or remove it altogether. Once air enters the area where the resonator used to be it basically doesn't have anywhere else to go but up through the opening yfin pointed out.

[sodaz]

This is very interesting....

So is a setup like this designed for low-mid range power or just top end power? And in terms of power, how will this/gruppe m compare to something like a full CAI?

[ngupil]

sorry to disapoint u people ..
2 of my friends already had the intake ages ago
sound wise, its bloody awesome!
nice choice aarong :)

[Chris_F]

This is very interesting....

So is a setup like this designed for low-mid range power or just top end power? And in terms of power, how will this/gruppe m compare to something like a full CAI?

Well personally i think a well shielded SRI intake that has a direct passage of cold air comming in is better than a full CAI. Reason being, the longer the pipe and the more bends it has the more vacum force is required to suck air into the engine. Personally i didn't notice a loss of low end torque with the GruppeM, I wonder if Aaronng did with his Apexi... but I'm guessing he didn't.

It'd be interesting to experiment with different intake pipe lengths on a dyno.

One thing i like about the mugen/gruppem/apexi/comptech icebox is that they also keep the stock rubber intake tubing - which is less prone to heatsoak. Which is good if you're drawing in cold air, it'll keep cold... draw in hot air and it'll probably have the opposite affect.

I've thought about intakes far too much :thumbdwn::p

[raz05]

true, i have notice a bit lag at low end after installing the full CAI, well not really lag, juz that the throttle is less responsive

[Chris_F]

yea you have? Have you tried to install it in SRI mode? (can't remember if your intake can be installed in SRI mode) be interesting if that fixed the throttle response problem.

[raz05]

yea, haven't tried the SRI mode yet, I guess it would solve the throttle respone problem as the SRI mode giving a much shorter induction distance, anyway i'm quite happy with the CAI mode at the moment.
But I dun think the open SRI mode would provide as much gain as the CAI mode unless i have some pipe to draw some fresh air directly to the air filter. So i will juz stay with the CAI mode.

[Chris_F]

yea that's fair enough... you could always do what aaronng is going to do and make a custom heat shield, but CAI is a much easier option, unless you loved how it felt in SRI

[EuroDude]

hms doesnt the euro have a variable air intake where it re-routes the air through a shorter passage when needed?

So in theory, an SRI would not be beneficial for the K24. A longer one would be ideal.

[aaronng]

hms doesnt the euro have a variable air intake where it re-routes the air through a shorter passage when needed?

So in theory, an SRI would not be beneficial for the K24. A longer one would be ideal.
Euro has a single intake runner.

A CAI is not THE ideal mod. Each mod supports the engine. Even the best intake in the world that gives the best response and funnels in air at the same temperature as outside will only allow your engine to perform to its potential. If the stock intake without resonator is done well, then you will not get power gains. Anyway, for the Euro, the limiting component is the throttle body and intake valves. Filling up a 600ml cylinder at 6000+rpm is not easy. That's why dynos show a loss of torque above 5500rpm, even for the SCCA TSXs.

[aaronng]

Comparing stock and the Apexi, my butt dyno says they are the same. The throttle response seems to have improved slightly, but it could be my imagination. Power-wise, it's the same.

Heat wise, after driving for 30 minutes, I popped the bonnet and felt the metal pipe. It was coolish. I'd say 20 ºC in a 16 ºC night. But it still sucks in hot air from the engine bay, so the enclosure is priority #1 (and also to stay legal).

Want to know something stupid? My insurance company says that they will cover my intake with no increase in premium. But they will not allow a Cusco strut bar.

[euro77]

what? what is their reason for not allowing strut bar?

[aaronng]

what? what is their reason for not allowing strut bar?
They said that it's a structural component. Then I asked, can I modify the suspension. Their response was "Yes, you can lower your car". GRRR.... they think suspension mods = slamming it.

I'll call again next week and get another dude on the phone.

[euro77]

which insurance? if u're with shannon they probably would have known better :D

[aaronng]

which insurance? if u're with shannon they probably would have known better :D
LOL, Honda insurance. But I get new car replacement for the first 3 years, so I'll stay with them for 1 more year. :p

[yfin]

I think you may be thinking of this one:

http://www.sca40.com/intake/
That is it - pretty good setup as long as you could box it. He doesn't even address the issue of hot air in the engine bay.

[Omotesando]

Nice! That filter and piping is very neat and after you make the insulation box and cold air intake tubing should have better power gains everywhere!

Its funny when you said changing the brackets changed the noise of the filter at various RPMs as well...!

Anyway regarding the construction of the insulation box. I have experimented with a Heat Shield consisting of Vertical shields, and then with or without a Top lid, plus proper cold air plumbing leading from the front bumper hole before. I felt it was better without the top lid, it felt like it could suck in more air at top end and yet throttle response wise, couldnt tell much difference.

I was thinking it is mainly to do with volume of air supplied vs negative pressure within the insulated box, vs heated and cold air. So anyway, it would be good if you play around with it and see which settings suits your car better too!! :)

[aaronng]

When I put the 2nd bracket and hose clamp on, there was an additional bend where the hose met the steel pipe. I guess that robbed some power as yesterday, I took that bracket out and repositioned the filter so that the piping was straight. My butt dyno feels a difference! I couldn't believe that the little bend was enough to cause a difference!

[sodaz]

I'm a bit confused here. I thought the benefits of short ram over cai was better throttle response (boost in low-mid range) because of the shorter piping, but it seems like most SRIs (including the more expensive gruppe m) are really designed for top end power. Can somebody clarify this for me?

[aaronng]

I'm a bit confused here. I thought the benefits of short ram over cai was better throttle response (boost in low-mid range) because of the shorter piping, but it seems like most SRIs (including the more expensive gruppe m) are really designed for top end power. Can somebody clarify this for me?
When you improve breathing, what you are doing is addressing the issues of the stock breathing characteristics. As you know, at low RPM, the intake is not working at maximum capacity. So even if you changed to an SRI or CAI, they would not be working at maximum capacity and perform either the same or worse than the stock intake (which was probably designed to operate at peak efficiency at low to medium RPM). At high RPM, you start to reach the limitations of the stock intake and the additional maximum flowrate capacity of SRI and CAI start to show their benefits. That's why gains are observed at high RPM and not at low RPM.

[sodaz]

Thanks for the explanation Aaron. :thumbsup:

[Omotesando]

When you improve breathing, what you are doing is addressing the issues of the stock breathing characteristics. As you know, at low RPM, the intake is not working at maximum capacity. So even if you changed to an SRI or CAI, they would not be working at maximum capacity and perform either the same or worse than the stock intake (which was probably designed to operate at peak efficiency at low to medium RPM). At high RPM, you start to reach the limitations of the stock intake and the additional maximum flowrate capacity of SRI and CAI start to show their benefits. That's why gains are observed at high RPM and not at low RPM.

Do you know the reason why CAI/SRI's don't work as well compared to stock airboxes, in the low rpms?

It shows up on the dyno too... hmmm...

Someone told me anything with an airbox but with a bit of air volume is better for lower rpm, but didn't offer me a more technical explanation. Very curious! :p

[aaronng]

Do you know the reason why CAI/SRI's don't work as well compared to stock airboxes, in the low rpms?

It shows up on the dyno too... hmmm...

Someone told me anything with an airbox but with a bit of air volume is better for lower rpm, but didn't offer me a more technical explanation. Very curious! :p
Who told you SRI doesn't work well at low RPM compared to stock? :p

At low RPM, the flowrate of air is lower, so with the same cross sectional area, the velocity is lower. If you use a narrower pipe, then the velocity increases. That's why huge CAI piping has losses at low RPM.

[sodaz]

Well personally i think a well shielded SRI intake that has a direct passage of cold air comming in is better than a full CAI. Reason being, the longer the pipe and the more bends it has the more vacum force is required to suck air into the engine. Personally i didn't notice a loss of low end torque with the GruppeM, I wonder if Aaronng did with his Apexi... but I'm guessing he didn't.

It'd be interesting to experiment with different intake pipe lengths on a dyno.

One thing i like about the mugen/gruppem/apexi/comptech icebox is that they also keep the stock rubber intake tubing - which is less prone to heatsoak. Which is good if you're drawing in cold air, it'll keep cold... draw in hot air and it'll probably have the opposite affect.

I've thought about intakes far too much :thumbdwn::p
The gruppem intake seems like a very interesting design. One of the main problems with the Euro is that the engine is very sensitive to heat. Since I installed the icebox I don't have this problem at all anymore. I'm pretty sure the CF shield works very well as a heat insulator, but since there must be some gaps between the heat shield and the car, do you notice the car bogging down slightly after a long drive? Any changes in the throttle response?

[yfin]

The gruppem intake seems like a very interesting design. One of the main problems with the Euro is that the engine is very sensitive to heat. Since I installed the icebox I don't have this problem at all anymore.
I wish the Icebox did that for me - I want my Euro to drive all the time like it is a 4 degree Melbourne morning.

The difference in how the car revs compared to a 30 degree day is very noticeable. I have read some people say "all cars do this" - but the cars I have driven are only slightly different depending on air temp.

[yfin]

Who told you SRI doesn't work well at low RPM compared to stock? :p

At low RPM, the flowrate of air is lower, so with the same cross sectional area, the velocity is lower. If you use a narrower pipe, then the velocity increases. That's why huge CAI piping has losses at low RPM.
The length of CAI piping also has a big part to play.

But in terms of what OMO has said - I have read that some resistence in the intake design (eg the fins in the OEM box) help maximise low end torque but at the sacrifice of peak power. So a simple straight through SRI could quite possibly lose torque down low compared to the OEM box as it is a resistence free design.

Any engineers care to comment?

I have also read that lengthening the airflow's path actually increases torque - but I couldn't find much information on the net that actually justifies that.

[aaronng]

The length of CAI piping also has a big part to play.

But in terms of what OMO has said - I have read that some resistence in the intake design (eg the fins in the OEM box) help maximise low end torque but at the sacrifice of peak power. So a simple straight through SRI could quite possibly lose torque down low compared to the OEM box as it is a resistence free design.

Any engineers care to comment?

I have also read that lengthening the airflow's path actually increases torque - but I couldn't find much information on the net that actually justifies that.
Yeah, both length and diameter affects intake airflow characteristics.

More length at low RPM means at the WOT, the air of low velocity in the tube has to travel through the piping to the throttle body first. As the existing air is sucked in, air from outside the filter is sucked in at a higher velocity. Hmm... how do I explain this.... It's like a train with many carriages. The link between each carriage has a little free play. When accelerating from a standstill or low speed, the engine pulls ahead, widening the gap to the 2nd carriage because of the "flexible" link and then pulling the remaining carriages behind it. Like an accordion effect. But when the train is at high speed, the links are rigid, because of the drag in the carriages behind. So if the engine then increases its speed sharply, all the carriages behind it also increase in speed accordingly and there is no accordion effect observed. I hope my explanation makes sense.

The stock airbox and comptech airbox provide a resevoir for an initial mass of air so that low RPM torque and response is maintained. An SRI is essentially the same length as the stock intake before the airbox. So response and low RPM torque is also maintained. BUT, in real world driving conditions, heated air from the engine bay reduces the density and thus negate most of the gains from the SRI. The CAI doesn't have as bad a heating problem, but the lack of an airbox and the long tubing means there is less response before sufficient intake air velocity is achieved.

With regards to lengthening the airflow's path, did you get that from the dual length intake runners? That's only for the intake manifold though. The effects of intake pulses is not as observable at the intake arm (too far and pulses are not as apparant). Lengthening the intake manifold path doesn't increase torque output. But rather each RPM range has an optimum intake length where the frequency of the intake air pulses match a particular RPM. A short intake is good for high frequency pulses (high RPM), while a long intake is good for lower frequency pulses (low RPM). Using the proper length means maximum potential torque can be realised from the engine in that RPM range.

[yfin]

More length at low RPM means at the WOT, the air of higher velocity has to travel through the piping to the throttle body. The stock airbox and comptech airbox provide a resevoir for this initial mass of air so that low RPM torque and response is maintained. An SRI is essentially the same length as the stock intake before the airbox. So response and low RPM torque is also maintained. BUT, in real world driving conditions, heated air from the engine bay reduces the density and thus negate most of the gains from the SRI. The CAI doesn't have as bad a heating problem, but the lack of an airbox and the long tubing means there is less response before sufficient intake air velocity is achieved.
I wish that was so Aaron. The Comptech Icebox definately loses some low RPM torque - I have done some back to back road testing with the stock lid on and off (both with resonator removed and the horn in place). It is not as much as a full CAI but the losses are there.

I think the design of the intake lid has a part to play as the Comptech lid is completely smooth.

[aaronng]

I wish that was so Aaron. The Comptech Icebox definately loses some low RPM torque - I have done some back to back road testing with the stock lid on and off (both with resonator removed and the horn in place). It is not as much as a full CAI but the losses are there.

I think the design of the intake lid has a part to play as the Comptech lid is completely smooth.
It's odd though. Most owners at tsx.acurazine.com reported the same or more torque at lower RPM. But then again, it could be imaginary power from the mod (or any mod).

Well, the air in the stock airbox would be more turbulent than in the Icebox. So it could be the additional turbulence causing better mixing and thus less of a local pressure drop at the intake arm opening in the case of the stock airbox. If there is a large enough pressure drop with the icebox, then it would be like the case of the CAI, which experiences quite a vacuum when at low RPM and thus a loss of low end power.

I've been testing low RPM response with the new intake, but because of the electronic throttle, I sometimes get a 0.5 second lag which is random (less likely to occur if I let the RPM be on the downward swing before I go WOT). I'll have to rely on a dyno instead anyway since my butt dyno is a moody bugger.

[yfin]

It's odd though. Most owners at tsx.acurazine.com reported the same or more torque at lower RPM. But then again, it could be imaginary power from the mod (or any mod).
I agree - no one seems to notice but it is there if you do back to back lid tests. Take a look at the Comptech dyno. See the torque chart:

link (http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dyno/tsx_icebox.pdf#search=%22comptech%20icebox%22)

Between 1700rpm and 2000rpm there is a torque loss of about 2-3%. There is a loss of power as well in that range but so minute it could be a dyno run variance. So pretty much the only weakness in the Icebox is 1700-2000.

These are fairly low revs so you mostly notice the loss if, say, you are in a high gear such as 4th cruising along at a relatively low speed (can't remember the exact speed - maybe 40 or 50kph and then you give it WOT). But you really need to do back to back testing with the lid on and off to notice the difference.

I am quite excited about all the ECU options becoming available as the torque increases even at a low 1500-2000rpm look fantastic. More important to me than peak gains.

[jonolee]

*blinks*
english plz, which is better hehe

[Chris_F]

The gruppem intake seems like a very interesting design. One of the main problems with the Euro is that the engine is very sensitive to heat. Since I installed the icebox I don't have this problem at all anymore. I'm pretty sure the CF shield works very well as a heat insulator, but since there must be some gaps between the heat shield and the car, do you notice the car bogging down slightly after a long drive? Any changes in the throttle response?

Well I've driven for periods of more than 2 hours in the past, some city driving, some highway driving, then some more spirited driving through the mountain twisties, and out of interest when i stop i always feel the heat shield out of interest. And even after a couple of hours of this sort of driving it feels basically the same temperature as it was when i started the journey, if anything it's a few degree warmer, but it's really not that noticeable. And I've never noticed the car bog down after a long drive at all, maybe on an incredibly hot day, but even with the stock airbox that happens, like others have pointed out the euros are really sensitive to changes in temperature (for better or worse). Also about the gaps between the heat shield and the car... I should go out and take some macro shots... the heat shield is designed within milimetres of all the surrounding objects in the space it occupies. There are a couple of small gaps, but it's amazing how tight a fit it is, and with the foglight cover removed there would be more than enough cold air entering the chamber to keep air temps down. Also i think the advantage of having a shorter length intake tubing and the pod filter as close as possible to the throttle body (whilst maintaining the stock rubber intake tubing) is more of a benifit for high rpm power than having a filter on the end of a longer metal tubing. Yes INJEN and K&N designs have access to limitless cold air, but the metal piping of those intakes does heat up which must affect intake temperatures even slightly (nore more or less than the gaps in the gruppeM box) and the longer tubing as aaronng pointed out would also act as a further restriction. Suck some water through a really long straw, then suck some through a shorter one, youll feel the difference (its a similar affect as far as i know)

Cliffs: no noticeable drop in throttle response after hard driving for extended periods, gruppeM intake has very few gaps, CAI designs would be more restrictive due to the longer intake tubing, the metal material they use would possibly transfer heat (probably not much more or less than the gaps in the gruppeM box).

[Chris_F]

Don't want to make my above post any longer (people probably won't read it as it is lol).

But there's been some intresting discussion about intakes in this thread as there always seems to be when it comes to intake designs haha.

Personally i think aaronng's got the right idea by making a well shielded SRI - should get the best of both worlds.

And yfin, good point about the ecu!

With a well tuned and more aggressive fuel map (and 40+ degree cam duration), the gains to low rpm torque that the stock airbox lid provides may become obselete and more of a restriction than anything, especially with a lower vtec point.

Can't wait to see some euro's with the reflash or EFI euro1 ecu, and the gains they are able to achieve with different setups.

[sodaz]

This is a very good discussion guys!

And thanks for the detailed analysis Chris. I'd love to see some macro shots of the gruppem. It's no doubt a very well designed product.

I think an ideal intake should have the following characteristics imo:

1. Good throttle response (low-mid RPMs) similar to stock box
2. Good access to cold air (no bogging down after engine bay heats up)
3. Good noise at WOT, but stock sounding when driving slow
4. Smoother acceleration throughout rev range
5. Noticable power gains

[Omotesando]

Who told you SRI doesn't work well at low RPM compared to stock? :p

At low RPM, the flowrate of air is lower, so with the same cross sectional area, the velocity is lower. If you use a narrower pipe, then the velocity increases. That's why huge CAI piping has losses at low RPM.


Sorry took me a bit of time to reply.

Anyway CAI is generally fairly bad for low-rpm power and throttle response, that's a given. As for Short Ram Intake, I actually 'used' this configuration previously mostly due to the same reasoning as you have, yet still noticed slight lag at lower rpm. I think most people I talked to find some small lags even using SRI and pod filter compared with stock airbox and filter. Obviously high RPM is much better.

I agree wholeheartedly that the diameter of the pipe can wreak havoc with the Intake Air's Velocity at Low RPM (when negative vacuum pressure is relatively unexhibited compared to Higher Air Volume Intake at Higher RPM). Just as more Aggressive Cams on both Intake and Exhaust side actually doesn't get more power sometimes, as air velocity going through the engine becomes affected negatively.

Or the Throttle Body size might affects power at diff RPMs.

EDIT: Or the Exhaust diameter is too large so the venturi 'gas extraction velocity' effect or whatever you call it means low rpm power is lost with larger diameter exhausts. This is the real explanation that debuncts the common false-belief that back-pressure in exhaust system is needed for low-rpm power, btw.


I don't think most SRI's or even CAI's have bigger or much bigger piping diameter though that's the thing. I just don't understand why low RPM power can be robbed if my SRI piping diameter is the same (in fact, I used completely stock piping actually).

Although I just remember that people having Asthma is adviced to breathe through a paper bag instead to relieve their symptoms. Perhaps this could be related to low rpm power somewhat?

I've also heard that Panel Filters in general straighten airflow so it is probably better for low RPM application, whereas in high RPM perhaps the extra volume of air from a pod filter will be more beneficial? Also the APEXi Filter funnel cone design means the airflow into the piping is straightened as well despite the pod design so that has to be a great thing.

As for Comptech Icebox vs Stock Airbox, I don't know if its relevant but some people say that air flow is actually more turbulent if the piping is too smooth, due to air drag at the edges. I've heard same thing with Aerodynamics on a car's paint being too smooth and actually inducing drag. So perhaps the Comptech being smoother might be relevant?

As for the Heat Shield being warm or not and thus affecting intake air temp, I think since the heat from the engine builds up on one side of the heat shield, but then it needs to transfer to the intake air on the other side via Radiant heating only, as long as the air on the intake side isn't stagnant, which it never is, then the amount of heat transferred through the 'shield' to the intake air that the engine breathes in must be very minimal. That is EVEN if the heat shield is hot. I mean I don't think there's so much difference between a well insulated, clark rubber layered or carbon fibre shield versus a heat absorbing aluminium one, to be honest! Its not exactly direct heat transfer... :O

[aaronng]

I don't think most SRI's or even CAI's have bigger or much bigger piping diameter though that's the thing. I just don't understand why low RPM power can be robbed if my SRI piping diameter is the same (in fact, I used completely stock piping actually).
In my opinion, SRIs maintain the same low rpm power by design, but lose power instead because of the heated air that the engine is being fed with. The CAI on the other hand is a longer straight tube compared to the stock airbox thus having air flow at lower velocities take longer to accelerate to relieve the intake manifold vacuum.



Although I just remember that people having Asthma is adviced to breathe through a paper bag instead to relieve their symptoms. Perhaps this could be related to low rpm power somewhat?
I think that's for people who are hyperventilating.

[aaronng]

As for Comptech Icebox vs Stock Airbox, I don't know if its relevant but some people say that air flow is actually more turbulent if the piping is too smooth, due to air drag at the edges. I've heard same thing with Aerodynamics on a car's paint being too smooth and actually inducing drag. So perhaps the Comptech being smoother might be relevant?

Once the air is turbulent, it's turbulent. The differences of the inner surface smoothness is too insignificant to affect turbulent airflow. When in the turbulent region, you will need to use baffles to cause an increase in turbulence or significantly increase the air velocity to enhance the effect of the surface smoothness.

[Omotesando]

:(
Once the air is turbulent, it's turbulent. The differences of the inner surface smoothness is too insignificant to affect turbulent airflow. When in the turbulent region, you will need to use baffles to cause an increase in turbulence or significantly increase the air velocity to enhance the effect of the surface smoothness.

I wouldn't conclude that the 'inner surface smoothness is too insignificant' to affect turbulent airflow. If the outer area inside the pipe has air that doesn't want to flow in the right direction, it will create resistance and pressure for the rest of the air flow as it has nowhere to go. The middle of the pipe also has a significantly smaller diameter.

An exhaust system that has a punctured hole on the 'surface' loses a lot of horsepower because the gas extraction is disturbed.

Mandrel Bends are better than Press Bends in the system because air disturbance nearer the pipe's outside at the bends is minimised.


As for SRI configuration and losing low down torque - in most cases you're right that it has to do with heated air from the engine. However in my case I was using a fully enclosed heat shield with cold air feed pipes. It still lost some low rpm power. What you said also doesn't explain for the fact that Comptech Icebox loses slight low rpm power as well - since that is well covered from engine bay heat :) May be we need to consult one of those F1 engineers during the next Melbourne GP!

[EuroAccord13]

Opps another Teaser Shot...

Aaron's Secret 10HP Closed Heat Shield Version 2.1.1


Heeheeheeheee..


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/EuroAccord13/ApexiSRI/MugShot.jpg

[enkay]

"Post RESPONSIBLY or the Moddie Stick will be on you :)" hahahha =P jokes

[aaronng]

Whoa..... thread resurrection........ I even missed Omotesando's reply!

[aaronng]

An update on my intake: http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53595

[cdjhitman]

dats a nice peice of engineering aaron youve done with your intake lol. i just got a question though why didnt you get a CAI instead of a SRI. because what you've done is directing cold air into ur SRI. also for us who love our fog lights, is it still possible to have a SRI or CAI with our fog lights without hindering its performance potential?

[aaronng]

I chose SRI because many people have CAI. And I wanted the Apexi filter material as it is a dry filter.

You don't need to sacrifice your foglight for CAI or SRI. Routing air from the bumper is optional for CAI. For SRI, it's a good idea so that you don't duck in hot air from the engine bay.