Why not to cut springs

[SiReal]

Have a read of this taken from a US forum. Not entirely descriptive on the mechanics behind why the spring lost it but still sh1t does happen.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77378

Not sure if you need a login or not.

[Slow96GSR]

Have you ever seen a spring? At each end it comes back around and touches the previous coil. This makes a full loop and a way to keep it on the platform and from literally unscrewing out. When you cut the spring you give it an "escape" path to where it could slide out and then make that corner lower and cause a malfunction. That caused the accident. But cutting your spring is a good way to void warranties and maybe even your insurance.

As you can see the loop back allows the platform to have a place to rest. Cutting the spring takes that away and will allow the spring to slide out and unscrew. Say it's the front pass corner, that corner fails, your front end hits the ground at 75mph and you go in to on coming traffic. What do you think happens from there? What do you think will happen if you live?

http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/Performance2/EDELBROCKSTRUT.JPG

[SiReal]

yep, hehe check out my DIY. Thanks for explaning the reasons. I actually wanted to know why that happened.

What about cutting dead coils then?

[DreadAngel]

TKO... That all I've got to say...

[Slow96GSR]

I would never cut anything on a suspension part, better to find an aftermarket part that fits your needs. Is your life or someone elses worth 200-500 bucks. People need to just save and spend the money to do it right.

His accident was caused by spring failure. It came out of its place and the front end dropped. Had he done it right he would still have that beautiful car!!

[SiReal]

I would never cut anything on a suspension part, better to find an aftermarket part that fits your needs. Is your life or someone elses worth 200-500 bucks. People need to just save and spend the money to do it right.

Agreed :thumbsup:

[mrwillz]

wata a wreck

[iamhappy46]

Cut springs retain the original spring rate(kg/mm or Lbs/in, etc) so when the car is lowered, it makes it very bouncy as the springs are so soft. I seen cars with cut springs hit their front bumper on the ground when braking!

Proper lowered springs have a stiffer spring rate to make it hanlde better and stop the thing from bottoming out on the shocks as well. Bottom your shocks out too many times and you will know about it.

[spetz]

wow me and a friend angle grinded his stock springs
Rides really good and no problems so far but that is scary :(

Car looks tough as though! :)

[ACTI0NMAN-1]

others can learn from his mistake. props for him admitting fault and posting to advise others to avoid his mistake

[DreadAngel]

others can learn from his mistake. props for him admitting fault and posting to advise others to avoid his mistake

Amen!

[turbo convert]

i have been in lots of cars with cut springs and lets just say this your car will still be bouncing 1km down the rd after his a slight deviation in the road,
very bad idea

[egSi]

i have no sympathy.

serves himself right.

DONT DO IT KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edw-R]

No good. Never do it mate.

[JasonGilholme]

I'm with trav. Serves him right for doin it, especially when he knew he shouldn't have.

I wouldn't ride in a mates car that had cut springs either. Most of the time the passengers die and the driver lives....

[BlitZ]

what the relavence of the thread... it doesnt even tell u why he crashed...?

can someone explain to me why he crashed?

and what has cut springs got anything to do with it, ( flat like OEM as he said in the thread and captive)..

[SiReal]

what the relavence of the thread... it doesnt even tell u why he crashed...?

can someone explain to me why he crashed?

and what has cut springs got anything to do with it, ( flat like OEM as he said in the thread and captive)..

Not sure if your tone of msg is cynical or not, but i'll presume not...

Relevance of this thread? hehe.... well, if you probably took the time ot read ALL the posts and the link, then you would understand that this guy crashed cos he cut his springs. this is an example of waht may happen. This is not so much a mechanics course but rather an awareness thread. that is all.

I hope that through this thread ppl will become more educated in their modifications and won't be stupid in how they do it.

And if you read what slow96GSR has said, u might get a bit of an insight. :)

@ everyone - the owner of the car has taken full responsibility so there is no need to bag him.

[BlitZ]

hehehee not being cynical....



Ive removed a single dead coil from a set of ITR springs..

My springs sit perfectly flat.. and also captive.. (if i didnt tell u, you wont even know they were cut)

Have yet to ever experiece a problem..

If you can, explain to me how this could effect my handling?


Honestly i dont think anyone could explain how this could effect my handling if done right...
:thumbsup:

[sivic]

springs are designed to have a certain stiffness (usually determined by thickness) to match a certain number of coils. ie: less coils need a thicker spring. start removing coils and you lose stiffness in the spring. you cant change the thickness of a spring so therefore you cant compensate for lost coils, so therefore theres no real way of chopping springs right
its not just a matter of whether or not it will stay in place.

[BlitZ]

springs are designed to have a certain stiffness (usually determined by thickness) to match a certain number of coils. ie: less coils need a thicker spring. start removing coils and you lose stiffness in the spring. you cant change the thickness of a spring so therefore you cant compensate for lost coils, so therefore theres no real way of chopping springs right
its not just a matter of whether or not it will stay in place.

Actually i think you are wrong there...
The more coils u chop off the harder the spring.



Most(not all) spring manufacturer's cut coils off to get custom spring rate... they just recap the end...

[iamhappy46]

On a progressive rate spring, you can cut off 'dead' springs but the reduced height and non linear progression would stuff your shocks absorbers very quickly. So blitz, you theory does have some merit but the reduced height and less srpings trying to control the cars weight does cause the car to become more bouncy and thus destroying shock absorbers.

On linear rate springs, cutting off coils is plain stupid. It lowers the car and stuffs the valves in the shocks, making cornering a lot less safe and the driver normally ends up trying to take corners at speeds they once could and then end up punching a hole in the scenery.

Also, cut springs are more likely to sag over time as the angle grinder introduces HEAT!

Spring manufacturers do cut the coil to a specific length before they are 'wound', they are then treated to stop thin/soft spots and then powder coated.

Lets just say there is a reason spring manufacturers exist. If your too dodgey to care about buying proper springs, then I just hope you never crash into anyone and cop the @ss reaming from the Police if you kill/seriously injure anyone.

[BlitZ]

On a progressive rate spring, you can cut off 'dead' springs but the reduced height and non linear progression would stuff your shocks absorbers very quickly. So blitz, you theory does have some merit but the reduced height and less srpings trying to control the cars weight does cause the car to become more bouncy and thus destroying shock absorbers.

On linear rate springs, cutting off coils is plain stupid. It lowers the car and stuffs the valves in the shocks, making cornering a lot less safe and the driver normally ends up trying to take corners at speeds they once could and then end up punching a hole in the scenery.

Also, cut springs are more likely to sag over time as the angle grinder introduces HEAT!

Spring manufacturers do cut the coil to a specific length before they are 'wound', they are then treated to stop thin/soft spots and then powder coated.

Lets just say there is a reason spring manufacturers exist. If your too dodgey to care about buying proper springs, then I just hope you never crash into anyone and cop the @ss reaming from the Police if you kill/seriously injure anyone.

Perfect..well said. :thumbsup:

Cutting springs isnt the end of the world provided that it still sits perfectly in the cup and is captive...

[fatboyz39]

i got chopped my springs. I track my car and havn't had any probs with it.

[vtec_jet]

LOLL ^^ success story ^^

[Limbo]

my friend cut his springs, they use to pop out when they went over speed humps too fast. Then he tells me hes hould of brought new springs.

but he still kept them going for over a year. I guess it depends on how much your chopping but seeing springs are not that expensive i dun see the use

[nobbs]

ive known people who have lowered springs and then cut a coil off to make it slightly lower...its still rides just as if they hadnt chopped them....i know this still doesnt make it right, but yeh thats my 2c hahaha
ive been through the "chopped springs" stage back when i was 17, in school with no job and on my red p's, im glad it was only short (im on coilovers nowadays and i dont think ill ever turn back) and nothing bad happened, but yeh in all honesty spend that extra bit of money to do it right and ur car and ur friends will love u for it

[BlitZ]

LOLL ^^ success story ^^

hahah yeah... works for me too..

1:16x around wakie (EM1).. with single rear coil cut off and jsut konis..on street tyres

[sivic]

Actually i think you are wrong there...
The more coils u chop off the harder the spring.


haha really? you think removing coils will make a spring harder?
look at it this way. every bit of the spring provides some resistance to compression. remove a coil of it and you lose some resistance, thus losing stiffness. when you remove coils off a spring the remaining coils dont magically increase their spring rate lol.
sometimes a spring may appear to become stiffer but all thats happened is the remaining coils have been put under greater load and compressed far more than usual, but all the while the spring rate of each individual coil has remained the same.

all in all its a crap idea IMO

[a.hay]

just my input.. doing anything that may compromise the safety of ANYONE, just to save a few bucks is in my opinion a bad move.

Its not that im saying if you cut your spings you will have an accident, just that driving is already a very dangerous practice, you just have to turn on the news... and by doing something like this your just increasing the risk.
Companies pour endless dollars into R&D, so why challenge that? - their products are the way they are for a reason.

on the off chance that something MAY happen, I would never be able to live with myself knowing I hurt someone else, be it a passenger, another driver or even a pedestrian just to save a little cash. The guy in the above example was lucky considering how much worse things could have turned out.

Im not here to tell you what to do, or say what your doing is bad, you make your own decisions, its just my opinion - cars can be replaced, lives cant. a life is worth so much more that the cost of a set of springs...

[sivic]

amen to that

[BlitZ]

haha really? you think removing coils will make a spring harder?
look at it this way. every bit of the spring provides some resistance to compression. remove a coil of it and you lose some resistance, thus losing stiffness. when you remove coils off a spring the remaining coils dont magically increase their spring rate lol.
sometimes a spring may appear to become stiffer but all thats happened is the remaining coils have been put under greater load and compressed far more than usual, but all the while the spring rate of each individual coil has remained the same.

all in all its a crap idea IMO



sometimes i wonder why i even bother..:zip: ...

say you have 2 springs.. one with 50 coils and one with 25 coils..

each coil takes 10lbs to compress flat...

you apply a load of 5lbs (say it compresses it 5 mm)

50 coil set will compress 50 x 5mm
25 coil set will compress 25 x5mm

therefore more coils will provide more movement and harder springs rate
btw i hope you know springs rate is measured in lbs/inch or kg/mm etc etc

[sivic]

i know how spring rate is measured.
theres a difference between a stiffer spring and a spring which has been compressed to a point where it wont compress any further.
while properly designed, unchopped springs will allow a level of compression for preload, and then also having room for further compression, a chopped spring doesnt have the travel to accomodate for both. the preload on the spring will expend most of the spring's ability to compress further properly handle compression strokes during driving. this in turn causes large problems on the rebound stroke as the lack of preload allows the spring to move on its perch. basically it will bottom out far easier when rebounding. so i guess chopping springs is fine for the fully sick lowered look but for actual practical use is crap.
in any case i cant see how cutting springs can be justified. only reason is to save money. and frankly if you cant afford to do something of this nature properly dont do it at all.

[Slow96GSR]

... In any case i cant see how cutting springs can be justified. only reason is to save money. and frankly if you cant afford to do something of this nature properly dont do it at all.

I agree 100%! It doesn't even save money. In the long run, maybe short run depending on things, there will be damage to the spring and the car. Also this takes time. The same time it takes to swap out to the right spring. Basically doing the same job twice if you are just cutting them for a temporary drop. Then the cost to have someone cut them for you if you can't. So see you could end up spending more, especially if you have to fix the car because the cut springs failed or you crashed the car.

[fatboyz39]

sometimes i wonder why i even bother..:zip: ...

say you have 2 springs.. one with 50 coils and one with 25 coils..

each coil takes 10lbs to compress flat...

you apply a load of 5lbs (say it compresses it 5 mm)

50 coil set will compress 50 x 5mm
25 coil set will compress 25 x5mm

therefore more coils will provide more movement and harder springs rate
btw i hope you know springs rate is measured in lbs/inch or kg/mm etc etc..
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: i got 600lb springs in the rear and there's only 4-5coils

[iamhappy46]

EASY LANGUAGE:
cut springs = insurance null & void = big debts for you, as you will be paying for whoever/whatever you smash into

[vtec_jet]

if u cant afford coilovers, and ur springs arent low enough do wat i did . . compress them . .

chopping wuld jus be stoopid imo . .

[a.hay]

i always thought... the spring rate wasnt determined by the number of coils, rather the tension that each coil holds or the force taken to compress that spring (the kg/mm thing..) so therefore less or more coils may not detrmine the spring rate... and under enough weight the spring will compress to a maximum point... not determined by the number of coils but the tension of those coils... ie "spring rate" or force taken to compress that spring...
soooo.....if you cut a coil of a spring... your not changing the spring rate of the the coils as such... just removing a coil which will reduce the amount of force needed to compress the spring... but not because the spring rate "becomes" harder but because there is "less" spring... if ya know what i mean?
anyway... correct me if im wrong but i thought thats how it worked...

[Slow96GSR]

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/springs_calcs.htm There you go guys, calculate away!!

[BlitZ]

i always thought... the spring rate wasnt determined by the number of coils, rather the tension that each coil holds or the force taken to compress that spring (the kg/mm thing..) so therefore less or more coils may not detrmine the spring rate... and under enough weight the spring will compress to a maximum point... not determined by the number of coils but the tension of those coils... ie "spring rate" or force taken to compress that spring...
soooo.....if you cut a coil of a spring... your not changing the spring rate of the the coils as such... just removing a coil which will reduce the amount of force needed to compress the spring... but not because the spring rate "becomes" harder but because there is "less" spring... if ya know what i mean?
anyway... correct me if im wrong but i thought thats how it worked...


I think you are thinking in terms of a single coil rate...
you have to think the sping as a collection of coils...


a coil compresses to bear weight then it locks at a position, the exact same weight applied to that coil will then be transferred to the next... so the more coils the more times it will compress

--------------------------------------------------------------
Check SlowGSR's Link...:thumbsup:

Contributing factors to spring rates are:
W = Diameter of the spring wire in inches
N = Number of active coils (number of coils that are free to move + 1/2 coil)
D = Diameter of the coils measured to the center of the wire, in inches