Y we wont ever get the CTR/New Coupe

[**Ghost**]

I was talking to a honda trader/agent woteva u want call him ages ago and just last week as well

. Basically he goes in December this year, Honda was really looking into the Civic Coupe Si frmo US to importing into Australia as a "mild sport" addition to the range to appeal to younger ppl....

Honda has apparently rearranged its range structure, but screwed itself up the ass for being uncompetitive in price due to thier want to promtoe "high technologY"

as the range goes... the JAZZ was meant to replace the civic as the small car, whilst the civic has been "upgraded" to ..... half family car status, partially to comepnsate for the Euro Accord's high price.

at first the jazz VTIS and CIvic VI was meant to excite and intice the young generaton.... sadly it doesnt.... ANd Honda are experiencing veryyyyyyyyy bad sales figures apparently... around 5 times less than toyota or something. THUS they started to look at importing a 2 door coupe or HB...

Basically the idea was rejected, with the main culprit of the rejection being...........................(wait for it)........ the EK4 and EM1 our most (arguably) beloved babies...

The EK4/EM1 sport civics apparently never sold. Thinking about that point wihtout any EXACT figures... i suppoes so... i can get by a whole day without seeing ONE on the road (in melbourne at least), cant say that for EG civics... neway Those 2 cars, the "performance civics" supposedly failed royally due to the price and the look

First The Ek4, being aroudn 35k on the raod back then, wasnt competitive with other performance cars on the raod during release. Main competitor? SUbies WRx. the rationale is that neone who forks 35k back then for a HB, is a revhead... and revheads can almost get a suby and some other impressive cars for that dosh ... (Do u guys agree with this generalisation? i kindaaaaa do). And it didnt appeal to the middle aged person either... cos effectively they were paying 35k for a car that looked pretty much exactly like a CXi/GLi from afar... To these ppl "who cares about performance" when its "still a civic"

Then the Em1 came out cos the Ek4 was failing so miserably. THe EM1 was meant to fix this as it had a unique and "better" shape... i tend to agree here with their reasoning. WHY the EM1 never sold was apparently due to the "still a civic" image... :cry:

So come the 7th Gen, they decided there was not enough of a "performance" crowd for the civic to make importing a 2 door variant worthwhile... to them, mums are still buying their cars, and so are dads... the kids can buy a teg if they can, or a VTI-S jazz if they cant... sure we'd buy a CTR over a DC5 ,but would the majority of ppl? probably not...

Lastly, its seen as too late now to save the civic... as by the time everything and importing and spare parts, and education of their technicians can take place... the Gen 8 would be due...

ah wellllll

[VTEC16]

I agree with you for most of your points. Its a pitty that they wont sell the R versions - but we have to recognise that we, the enthusiasts are a very small minority in the new car market.


ANd Honda are experiencing veryyyyyyyyy bad sales figures apparently... around 5 times less than toyota or something.

I dont think Honda even tries to compete with toyota in terms of sales figures. Toy-boat-a sells more cars than anyone else in australia.

[MKI4EVA]

you should pic up the latest ed of EVO mag..........theres a good test between

CTR, cooperS, Focus ST170, Clio182 and pug 206 gti 180.

im suprised at what they said about the CTR's steering response.

[SPEEDCORE]

Well they have reverted back to a 1.5 Vtec in the upcomming CTR.

The excuses for the EP3 not comming out was more geared towards sharing the K20.

Would be good to see the 1.5 CTR come out.......... but like I have said in another thread........ if they killing the DC5R then I highly doubt that the CTR will ever land here.

EK4 and EM1 was the death of performance civics in Australia. Honda might talk economics with reguard to sales of "performance" civics and integras not being profitable, but we look at a company like Alfa Romeo and they bring out a $65k hatchback, sure they don't sell well but at least you can get it. Look at the clio Sport, I'm very fond of this car, price is not too bad either.

Honda Australia's problem is that they overprice their cars. I mean seriously, consider a DC5R and still have to pay for Air-con......... what a freakin' joke. If they released a performance civic in the high $20k or just over $30k, and lower the civics mums buy to low to middle $20K, Toyota australia would stop smiling with their sales performance of Corolla.

[[[d a n n y]]]

not killing the dc5R just changine name...

anywayz the ITR will not b able to match the CTR...

lighter body with the same engine...

hm...

i would rather take the CTR it looks better too

[Jus-10]

I was looking at sales figures for March the other day, and BMW sold more 3-series than Honda did Jazz!

I can't remember the exact figures, but Honda only sold around 500 Jazzs for the month.

P.S. I love my Jazz.....and hopefully the new 1.5 CTR engine will fit in my baby?!

[SPEEDCORE]

P.S. I love my Jazz.....and hopefully the new 1.5 CTR engine will fit in my baby?!

Man just K20 the god damn thing! Dynamite Fit style! ;)

DANNY: Dude there is speculation that it will not have stuff like recaros, bodykit, etc etc. Personally I like the current DC5R the facelifted one looks a bit funny............. might grow on me.

[[[d a n n y]]]

P.S. I love my Jazz.....and hopefully the new 1.5 CTR engine will fit in my baby?!

Man just K20 the god damn thing! Dynamite Fit style! ;)

DANNY: Dude there is speculation that it will not have stuff like recaros, bodykit, etc etc. Personally I like the current DC5R the facelifted one looks a bit funny............. might grow on me.

hm..no recaro's...

what the. :?

i saw in the mag..speed or motor..about the new CTR

it looked like it had all the goods...but this was in pommy land.

[**Ghost**]

u cant really compare Alfas selling 65K hatches and Audi A3s with Em1 and EK4s... Alfas/Audi have the prestige, the interior and the looks... my ek4, as much as i love it lokos too much like a CXi, and the interior... man its pretty average.. .


Corolla sportivo is a indication of getting the "hot hatch" of a range right... i mean its gota factory kit and the alloys... and 140kw (maybe its not as good as ek4, but for the armchair experts who read motor mag before htey buy a car its important)...

And hava look at the SP23 Maz 3... ... might be as ugly as crap... but at least the factory made a effort to differentiate it... like bigger alloys, etc.. .

EK4 v Cxi difference = spoiler + sticker + a small exhaust thats silver topped... i'm not going to count the alloys frankly cos i dont think they look too special...

of course its not about looks, for me i'd get my ek4 even if looked exactly like a cxi... but for the mass market its very important

[**Ghost**]

btw does neone know when 8th gen civics are coming out? it shouldnt be too long cos the range has been out for a good 4 yrs already hasnt it? and they had a "facelift" (IMHO it looks uglier)... and that usually indicates they wanna push the remaining stock out with small mods...

[weezer]

I've been told New CTR is now eligible for low volume import, since the 3 door isnt sold in Austraila. A Melbourne Importer actually has one, and just waiting for crash test data from England so they can compliance it. They're looking at about $35k but the car is almost brand new

Don't know how true this is. But thats what i have been told

[**Ghost**]

yeh i know it can be imported, ill be the first to get one if so (neone want to buy an ek4? :D )

the mitsu lancer MIVEC is also coming out... it was in motor magazine, so i uspposed thats confirmed... 125kw... not bad

dayam... lookatit in perspective... Honda ppl used to shate all over the mitsus... this generation... they ahve to rely on the old schoolers to uphold the tradition... ur not going newhere with a civic VI admit it

[CTR Coupe]

Yes the CTR can be brought in but no workshop does the compliance so to import them u have to crash 4 of them to be able to do ADR compliance. Mcchook was talking about this before I’m too lazy to look up the thread. It would cost 100,000 plus to import just one of them. Setup would cost probably around 200,000 plus the car 50,000.

I have a video from the UK reviewing the new CTR and basically it's faster than everything else in its class (apart from ford focus RS but that’s turbo and its only 200bhp the civic is 197bhp) the only thing that they bag is the steering response but that’s the price you pay for power steering. It looks bloody nice but it wont make it to Australia as a ADR compliance any time soon as its built in the UK so not many will be in Japan for importing and this will keep the price too high for import.

[SPEEDCORE]

u cant really compare Alfas selling 65K hatches and Audi A3s with Em1 and EK4s... Alfas/Audi have the prestige, the interior and the looks... my ek4, as much as i love it lokos too much like a CXi, and the interior... man its pretty average.. .


Yes you can........... when the build quality was better in the EK4 than the current alfa HBs. Granted the actual materials are probably not as exotic, alfa has always used full grain italian leather. Fit and finish is what I am trying to aim my focus at.

Italian cars have always been notorious for shit fit and finish, Ferrari's up until 10 or so years ago where absolute junk in fit and finish, but nobody cared because of that sweet sound when you wrung its neck.

[**Ghost**]

ah iknwo wot u meannow... no idont mean compare in terms of quality... but for the mass market... ppl will fork out 65 k for a audi A3 EVEN IF if it was shit... over a good qulaity EK4... prestige... thats y honda shouldnt be trying to up its prices with models that look exactly like the base model with internal modifications (i'm not complaining but this the market we talking about not enthusiasts)...

If honda wanted to boost up its prices for a "hot hatch" it needed to distinguish it on the outside from the base model to suit the mass market. I mean just look at the differences right now between a Corolla Ascent vs Sportivo, REnault Clio vs the Sport... Maz 3 v SP23... they are all quite different. Whereas with the Eks we got some small alloys, a sticker, and a small rear spoiler...

I'm sure ppl dont mind spending 35k on a hot hatch, but MOST of them would want others to know its THE HOT ONE, not the cxi/gli... honda screwed up royally on that

[Jus-10]

Man if that dude can sell an EP3R for $35k then that is a friggen bargain!

They retail for just over 16,000 pounds in the UK which is closer to AUD$40,000....you sure that guy hasn't been using himself as the crash test dummy or something?

And yes, the EP3R rocks.....look at who is winning the British Touring Car Championship....

[SPEEDCORE]

ah iknwo wot u meannow... no idont mean compare in terms of quality... but for the mass market... ppl will fork out 65 k for a audi A3 EVEN IF if it was shit... over a good qulaity EK4... prestige... thats y honda shouldnt be trying to up its prices with models that look exactly like the base model with internal modifications (i'm not complaining but this the market we talking about not enthusiasts)...

If honda wanted to boost up its prices for a "hot hatch" it needed to distinguish it on the outside from the base model to suit the mass market. I mean just look at the differences right now between a Corolla Ascent vs Sportivo, REnault Clio vs the Sport... Maz 3 v SP23... they are all quite different. Whereas with the Eks we got some small alloys, a sticker, and a small rear spoiler...

I'm sure ppl dont mind spending 35k on a hot hatch, but MOST of them would want others to know its THE HOT ONE, not the cxi/gli... honda screwed up royally on that

LOL we misunderstood each other.............. dude I agree 100% with you on that one. And its funny now that you mention that, because my G/F didn't want to take the Vti-R sticker off and when I questioned her why it was because she wanted people to know it wasn't a base model cause it looks virtually identical.

[**Ghost**]

:D

Seriously tho, and i put this to all of yas as a matter of curiousity.... would any of yous who own EK4s buy it again NEW ? 35,000 on the road,

for gods sake, no matter how tite the money was i'd be getting a base model teg over that, or even demo model VTIRs etc etc.

hahahhaa i dont know y i'm bagging my favorite car... i guess i'm just a bit peeved cos honda made a marketing mistake and we are paying for it with no 2 door HBs, Coupes, Si's, CTR for the 7th Gen...

[SPEEDCORE]

I had this same conversation with the G/F and her mom. I think we settled on not unless we had the house paid off.

BTW her mum is looking at buying a S2000, 2nd hand of course. ;)

[SiR]

Though I agree with a lot of the things that's been said, but what I'd like to add is that you guys are effectively comparing an 8 year old car (EK4 HB) to a car that was released late last year/early this year (Mazda 3). The Corolla Sportivo is also very new as well. I would like to think that marketing strategies have changed since the EK4 was first released, which is why Mazda and Toyota are so keen to differentiate the top of the range models with their lesser counterparts. Perhaps this is just the new direction car manufacturers are heading to make their cars more appealing?

Having said all this, it's a shame Honda isn't having another go at getting things right.

Just my opinion. :)

[**Ghost**]

not realllllyyy in my opinion a $35k hatch should have SOME good features... regardless of the era it was in... a b16A2 just doesnt cut it...

even though its a good engine in neone's definition... it doesnt by itself justify enough performance for the price tag in a bog standard body shell...

ah well, so does neone knwo when the 8th generation is coming out? ideas?

[SIKCVC]

What ever happend to the 2ltr Release of the SiR... it was braught out as a concept (and made stupid! power from what i read, something like 160kwts) Was that only ever gonna be a concept or did they intend on releasing it as the new CTR. Looked HORN. Best of everything.

[Setanta]

Honda Australia has always been totally ****ed in the head when it comes to marketing and creating their Civic line-up

Top of the range Civic:

1G - 1200 RS: We didn't get it.
2G - 1300 S: We didn't get it.
3G - 1600 Si: We didn't get it.
4G - 1600 SiR: We didn't get it.
5G - 1600 SiR: We didn't get it.
6G - CTR: We didn't get it.
7G - UK CTR and USDM Si : We didn't get it.

This has always been the pattern.

Best selling Honda is currently the CR-V - this is where Honda is focussing along with the Euro Accord. The rest is just fillers.

Honda's in this country are grossly over-priced compared to other countrys, their support is next to useless and their service centers rate with Holden and Ford ones in ineptitude.

I will not pay a fortune for a "H" badge on a ****ed up ugly P.O.S. that is the Jazz or Civic. They are gross under-performers, lacking in power and badly overweight. Did I mention that they are ****ing ugly?

I always feel that Honda Australia has the approach of "here's a watered down 'performance' hatch - you will like it even if you do know we are bending you over, lubing you up and inserting a 10 foot pole up your ass when we tell you it's a performance car and worth you taking out a small mortgage for a plastic piece of crap".

I've said it before, this is my last Honda - bang for buck, Honda has ****ed themselves royally with their policy (hello DC5 "Type R" - type "R" my ass) and couldn't give a shit about a consumer niche. then they wonder why it won't sell.

[Setanta]

BTW - 7G USDM "Si" is 160bhp. WTF????? 160 bhp is what the Civics were putting out in the '80s. Reality check Honda - 160bhp is no longer a "hot hatch".

[McChook]

Honda Australia have been ****ed for years, you know that Pete.
They have no idea, never have, never will

And someone is importing EP3Rs from next year.... $45K used and complied on your doorstep anywhere in Australia - that will shove it right up the dickhead's asses

Hondat Australia used to deny the fact that there were hot versions that we didn;t get - They still refute EB civic Si - We imported one years ago, and they said they didn;t exist.... In fact, they denied, back in the day, that their were any VTEC civics in the world - that was 1994. The internet has altered their stories

[SIKCVC]

hahaha are you serious... before 94 they denied there was any VTec civics... hahaha. Well now I know how far it goes when you say you have an import and they wont even listen to what you have to say. I accidently let that slip on the phone once (knowing full well the part was the same) i had to ring up 10 mins later with a different voice just to ask if they had it.

[SIKCVC]

When i rang up I said it was a ZC DOHC non-Vtec 1.6 Import... he said they dont deal with imports. SO i said the parts the same, its out of a D16a/8 DOHC Non-Vtec 1.6, then the guy Denied that Honda australia releaced a DOHC 1.6 non-vtec Into the EG models. Thats when i had to ring back later on.

[**Ghost**]

HAHAHHA i doubt they do it on purpose... maybe its just cos trhe regular joe who works at honda has no ****ing idea

[Jus-10]

I think your car is phucked too Setanta :P

As much as Honda Oz p*sses us all off with all their bullsh&t shinanigans, it sorta of makes what we all do all the more satisfying because we end up with something unique that we have put a lot of time in to whether it be researching or whatever.

OK so that isn't the way most people want to go about things, but I know I enjoy the challenge of finding sh*t for my car from Japan or wherever no matter how small and insignificant it may be...and I know I did it without the assistance of Honda Oz!

And it's true, people working at Honda have no idea at all. My dad called up the Parts Division at Kingswood Honda to get a set of 2004 Civic side indicators (the clear ones) - the d*ckhead said that they only come in orange and that you can only get aftermarket ones...all the pr*ck had to do was look in the friggen showroom and he would have seen a brand new Civic with "aftermarket" clears on the side...

And yes, they have refused to support the import scene, or any non-AUDM parts whether you have the part number or not. They do however admit that both Nissan and Toyota will do it for their cars....Not much f*cking use to me now is it!?

Maybe I should start working towards becoming CEO or some sh*t of Honda Oz so I can fix things up for us

J

[Setanta]

I think your car is phucked too Setanta :P

LOL - check my sig - mine is a JDM import, not an Aussie spec Civic ;) That excludes it - in fact, it has everything the VTiR had - well, except intrusion bars in the doors and bumper, not to mention airbags - it did get ABS as an option though. The difference? Mine was built in '90, a long time before the VTiRs.

JDM spec = good, Au spec = poor relative.