Civic Si vs Swift GTi

[Scandrew]

Just wondering between these two. Which would be faster?

[MKI4EVA]

Lock in a)Si eddy!

[Chi]

can i use a life line?

*calls bren up*

[bennjamin]

its all " power to weight ratio " laaaa.....


and....Im going to Ask the audience opinion thanks , Eddie.

A) Teh Si never loose !
B) Teh GTi never loose !
C) Purple monkey dishwasher !
or
D) Teh Gsi rides on shoes !

[BlacKEGPedroew]

you reffering to the GTI turbo?

[Scandrew]

Stock civic, stock GTi.

[SIKCVC]

Well I've always wanted to drag one side by side, but I've never been out run by any. Why dont you get someone with them and line up against them. The Si SHOULD win, the GTi's have a manufactures claim of 0-100 in 9 secs. but then again so do lancers and I'm yet to have one beet me :P

[Scandrew]

Hehehe, ahh ok.

I don't know anyone with a GTi or a Si. I'm planning to buy one of these cars.. just deciding on which.

GTi, is swaying me because it's cheaper and runs on less petrol (considering petrol prices nowadays).

Si sways me because it looks more modern and has better build quality.

Their power-to-weight ratios are pretty close. So if they're basically have the same set of balls I might spend a bit extra to get the Si.

[**Ghost**]

GTI 3rd gear is amazingly strong, thats its good piont IMHO...

Civic Si though, looks better (as u said), as plenty more aftermarket suport if ur planning to mod, and if u suddenly get teh urge, u'll have pelenty more options for engine swaps/enhancements

Long term Civic Si

[Scandrew]

Main thing I'm looking for is that it's reasonably cheap to run.

Do the Civic Si's have any common problems? How is drivability? Is it ready to up and go a bit when I give it a squirt?

[**Ghost**]

i test drove a civic Si sedan... the damn thing looked hot but had 170000 on the clock... it went pretty alright... response is good as well, one down shift puts u with a fair bit of grunt when u need iti n a hurry

that beign said, the Si is fairly nimble in the handlign department beign ligthweight and short wheelbase... .... what else.... well its a honda mate, hondas are fking unbreakable unless u mod the engine, and i mean internally not just bolt ons...

fidn a Si Sedan (hatches are rare), with reasonable Kms, driven by someone sensible and it should be all good...

[Chi]

well hodna engines will be better quality than suzuki thats for sure...

Of course they got squirt, actually more like a super soaker pump :P

But then, Its you , ITs not me, its a suzuki

[bennjamin]

"common" problems for a 2nd hand Si are....

*Distributor/fuel system would no doubt need rebuild/replace
*gearbox maybe in need of overhaul
*body wise....as most Si's are rare , old and no doubt been in a accident
*valves in need of adjustment etc

Really..the above are the same u woudl encounter in a car of the same age....and mroe problems on any other car type too :)

*BTW these have been my only problems ...in the Two Si's that i have owned.*

REMEMBER ! Give it a warm up...then after the oil has worked its way thru - it should be fine ! Rev ur heart out !

[ML]

i raced a friends gti and he kept up with me. but my car is a sedan
dont get a gti but they are so bloady ugly if its not a turbo they are a bit of a chicks car
just my opinyon thoe.

[ts0nda]

from 2 races agaist 2 different GTI's with I/H/E mods. both were beaten. One by about one car, and the other was left for dust. go SI power but not for long hehe ;)

[MR-VTEC]

go the si. honda power.

[MKI4EVA]

GTI 3rd gear is amazingly strong, thats its good piont IMHO...



yeh?..........i would have thought that 3rd gear above is its weak point.

i've raced both and could easily pull in the Gti where as the Si pulled away up top from me.

but i have no idea what mods each had.

[Setanta]

I've pulled a nose ahead using a mate's Si. Reversed the situation and got the GTi's door handles ahead of the Si. Changed to a different driver, same result.

Truthfully, it's pretty much anyone's game, but the GTi was more fun to drive - it had more spirit than the Si in terms of wanting to come out of the hole. The GTi was a bit more unstable at speed though.

If I had my choices, I'd get the GTi and whack on the turbo kit for it :) Those little beasts are mean :) Really tough motor, the gearbox doesn't feel as tight as the Si's though and I dunno about the 3rd gear comment, it did feel like you could leave it there forever though.

[Jus-10]

The Swift is a good car and there is plenty of potential for it. You can use the 1.6 litre block from the Baleno or Vitara and bolt the twin cam head to it.....it's a relatively easy mod as there are kits available for it.

The biggest mechanical let-down with the GTi is the gearbox....it is so weak and the single biggest problem...

Also, they are like tin-cans...yeah they are pretty fast but they are a death trap

Go for the Si if you can find one...it will be well worth the find

[SIKCVC]

Man Si's sound so rare now... i remember back 2 years ago people couldn't give them away there was that many... what happened?

The only problem i've had with my Si was the sensors blew and had do have injectors cleaned out, other then that running awseme.

[Civ_97]

just go the civic. u get the honda reliability and a hell of a lot better lookin car. while im not sure what the petrol consumption is like between the 2, the civic should still be really good

[MR-VTEC]

yeah i say go the si in terms of looks, after market support, potential and credibility. go the honda.

[Jai-VTi]

isn't this kinda a silly topic in a civic forum?

:P

[MR-VTEC]

whys dat. hes just simply asking what people reckon and considering he is asking about a specific honda model where else to ask but here?

[Mitch M]

GTi is a winner ;)

my mate has one and it flogged my sedan ... well not by fk all except up hills, those things chop up hills!!!

yeh they are 1.3L but they are so damn light!!! VERY underated car IMO

wouldn't be too much between an Si hatch and a Swift Gti but i would still lock in GTi ...

and i love my Si and would love to over rate it :D but unfortunately ... with my experiences ...

a well running GTi [which is pretty hard to come across these days because they all thrashed] will win ;)

[b13nx]

Ok looks like you guys need an outside opinion :D

With similar drivers and both mechanically A1 cars, I think the Si would nudge ahead.

[egSi]

gtis suck get the Si for sure

[Weq]

VTi would own both!!

[Civ_97]

not stock. my stock EK GLi beat a stock EG VTi Sedan. i havnt had the chance to race a swift yet though

[CTR Coupe]

I hope your posting the same thing on a GTI swift forum to get the other side of the story. Never driven either of these cars. Was in a gen2 CRX (with 4 people in it) and chopped one (same engine as EG SI). At the end of the day it’s up to you. The Honda is probably going to have a bit more resale value as they are becoming a rare car. Plus its a Honda :D
At the end of the day it’s what is for sale at the time and how good the deal is.

Both of these cars can become extremely mean beasts.
(I just think that the EG is a better looking car than the swift but that is just personal preferance)

[Scandrew]

Any more opinions?

Setanta, what do you mean it was more fun to drive? was the GTi more rev-happy? Does it feel like it pulls better?

[egSi]

hey man i own a Si with intake cat back and ive drivin a swift gti with full exhaust and some lumpy cams and an intake and id prolly get beaten if i was in my car... but the gearbox is like a exel gearbox, i swear there is a metre between 1st and 2nd and the thing was fukn scary at 100plus!

the gearbox and handling at hugh speed would be the downfall of the gti.
the Si seems to be able to handle it the gti doesnt

just my 2cents tho ;)

[vti-2]

I've said this before in another thread here...

It's all speculation until you take it to the track and run both cars down the quarter. The quarter mile doesn't lie.

This may sound harsh, but it's pointless debating which car would be faster on the internet. Someone is bound to say the Civic is 3 cars lengths quicker whereas someone else will swear black and blue the Swift is quicker. What does that prove? Nothing.

I really don't see the point of the topic going any longer than it already has...

[Scandrew]

I was not asking for a debate. I was asking for some opinions.

So far, plenty of the information has been great. Especially the opinions where actual users have had experiences with both cars.

The original thread was to just gain an understanding of both cars performances in comparison to each other not to boast on which car is quicker or not.

[Setanta]

Was in a gen2 CRX (with 4 people in it) and chopped one (same engine as EG SI).

?????? Aus spec ????

[Setanta]

Scandrew:

Fun factor: When I was in the Si, it felt flat in the revs - but I'm used to driving a B16A powered EF so any non-VTEC feels that way... except the GTi. It revved cleanly and seemed to continually make power. Now I don't drive ZC/D16 powered cars as a habit, so plenty may disagree with me, but of the two, the Si didn't feel as fast, nor, as I've already mentioned, was it as quick - again in my experience, others may/will disagree.

The Suzuki was great until it was really moving at excessive speed, then it felt unstable. Not uncontrollable and I understand a good suspension kit improves this, but it got my nerves up and the adrenaline pumping as it wasn't my car. By comparison, the Si felt stable to the point I took it (a bit more than the Si). I know my SiR doesn't feel like that until 180km/h with road-duty suspension on it - higher I don't know as I'm speed-limited to 180 as it's a JDM spec car. I can assume the Si is the same although I prolly have better sway bars on the SiR.

In terms of driving, the Suzi was more fun and would kill hills in 4th that I have to gear back in in the SiR. I didn't run the Si on the hills, but they build more power lower down so I guess they'd be as good as the GTi - maybe.

Safety: If you are hit by a truck or a SUV, you're not going to really walk away in either car. Personally, I doubt Civics are that safe in the early-mid '90s period, not until the EK/EM run anyway. The Suzy is prolly as safe (read: not very).

Looks: The EG is a nice looking car (just not as nice as an EF ;) ), it can be made to look better with a suspension drop and 16 inch wheels. The GTi is the same, but I'll give the Si the edge over the GTi - just.

Reliability: Pretty good for each. I've heard horror stories about both the GTi and the Si and very positive stuff too - expect the Si to last a bit longer in terms of motor longevity and the fact that most GTis will have been revved hard in their lifetime. The Si may have less rattles inside.... maybe - most hatches develop them including Hondas..

Parts: Both are post 90's cars - dont expect parts to be cheap for either, although Honda Aust are a pack of thieves and can go f*ck themselves - I get my parts from NZ and they are cheaper than their Aust equivilent. EF9 parts are cheaper than their ED6 equivilent - go figure [/end rant against Honda Au].

My choice? I've had Hondas in my driveway and driven them for nearly 18 years. I think they are a great car, but vastly over-rated. Their bonuses are good resale and general reliability. But if I had your choice, I'd go the Suzi. Not just any Suzi, but an import AWD Cultus - then do it up like Jamie Bezzina's "ITSMAD" :) Hell - I'd even go the FWD Aus sec with the AVO turbo kit on it.

Click below for what can be done:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~crawfy/itsmad.html

As others have pointed out however, the chance of finding a good condition GTi is going to be impossible - they were a cult car (and left the Hondas for dead in terms of popularity) in the 90s, following on the tradition of RX3s, TA22 Celicas and Datto 1600s. Hmmm - just thinking about it, I'd take any on that list over a Civic - other than my SiR that is ;) I've come to the conclusion that this is my last Honda - there's just so many better (cost/performance based) platforms and while I will be keeping the SiR and restoring it, I'll be moving away from Hondas in general a maker that actually gives a shit about a performance-based, low entry vehicle.

Long answer really and totally my perspective. Hopefully it's a bit more helpful than the responses of some "Hondah fanbois" which are brief, one-sided and useless. Some rants here and a little bit of disillusionment with Honda, but there may be one or two useful ideas.

Best bet? Take one of each for a run and make your own decision, don't be swayed by others - they wont be driving the car - you will. Make sure it's what you want :)

Hope this helps
Cheers
Pete

[Setanta]

Quick note: The GTi has the appeal of a modded 1st gen Civic - that has a lot to do with why I'd take it over an EG :)

[vti-2]

I was not asking for a debate. I was asking for some opinions.

So far, plenty of the information has been great. Especially the opinions where actual users have had experiences with both cars.

The original thread was to just gain an understanding of both cars performances in comparison to each other not to boast on which car is quicker or not.

As long as this doesn't go off topic. :)

[[twins]vtec]

the gti actualli feels realli fast.....i guess due to it weighing
i remember it was 880kg
has 8000 redline too which i personalli like.....
and apparently it does 8.6 sec 0-100km/h
which isnt bad..
bad thing is no power steering......

[geo41e]

ok..l shluodn't be posting this coz this is when i nearly crashed my car..but anyway

l raced a gti swift off the line..and i wus pulling away from him 1st..and 2nd and 3rd...so yeha...then blah blah blah..
but then again..thats my car..si engine with headers intake and muffler..stock piping...thats it.....anyways

[egSi]

ok..l shluodn't be posting this coz this is when i nearly crashed my car..but anyway

l raced a gti swift off the line..and i wus pulling away from him 1st..and 2nd and 3rd...so yeha...then blah blah blah..
but then again..thats my car..si engine with headers intake and muffler..stock piping...thats it.....anyways

Si's are cool

[MrJDMCivic]

i had a gti and my brother had a civic gl twincarb, both where side by side all the way up till 130k. then i raced a crx si (zc) and it pulled 8 cars on me, considering that my car had only 65000k on it, it was 2 years old at the time and also went very hard, but not as hard as a honda.

[Lex_EG93]

i had the same problem. i was planning to get a swift but then i chose the si. personaly i think the si is quicker because of its power in the low revs.

my mate had an gti and we had a quater mile run and my si won. and just to make it fair we switched cars (i was driving his gti, he was driving my si) and he beat me with my car...

i must admit it is fun driving the swift but it is scary when ur in high speeds...
with my si im alsways flying and i feel more safe because of its stability..

the only thing that put me off about the si when i bought it was that if i do want to get technical and start modding, ie cams an stuff, it is expensive for d series parts...

hope that helps! :)

[T-onedc2]

My brother used to have a Gti, they feel quick but would probably just get beaten by an Si or Vti. The big difference is the build quality, comfort and room, Gti is very plasticy and cheap, gearbox is weak and stupidly expensive to repair (easy $2500), Civic wins hands down in my book.
Oh and It kills it in the looks department too.

[SiR JDM]

it was 2 years old

so is this thread :p

Not a fan of the swifts at all. Civic in my books winds hands down in all aspects ive experienced.

[mugeneration]

Power to weight keeps them about equal. Personally I prefer the civic. More space, more style. Plus just about everyone you see driving a swift is a toss.

[CRXer]

Most of what Setanta wrote sounds fairly accurate.

I've owned a GTi(stock for a couple of years),a D16a8(Si) CRX & a B18C CRX,both Gen 2's.

i always wondered why my CRX's never felt as zippy as the GTi,I still reckon I could give my B18C trouble with the GTi of the mark if I didnt fully launch the B18C.Cant do that round the city much,would have grannies waving their walking sticks at me for miles around.So the GTi was a lot more fun zipping through traffic.

As for the D16 it never felt as fun unless it was kept up high in the revs,so getting off the mark was rather uninspireing.

That all said,I broke 2 GTi gearboxes,they handle like a bucket of shite compared to the CRX (i imagine the civic would handle quite similar to the CRX) & the wheel hop was astonishing in the dry.

I still look back fondly on my GTi,mad little engine the G13B,i spoke to suzi engineers once who said it would live at well above its redline all day,everyday.Its a pity the surrounding package didnt compare to my Hondas.

[CRXer]

Power to weight keeps them about equal. Personally I prefer the civic. More space, more style. Plus just about everyone you see driving a swift is a toss.

I'm glad u said just about everyone

[bennjamin]

back from the dead and back to death it goes.

Closed.