Quad throttle

[daniel b16a]

Hey guys....if i would like to get quad throttles on my b16a....wat mods do i need? juz ecu or do i have to do internal mods? how much wud they cost and will i make power?

[Slow96GSR]

Local price, or close to: http://www.tweakit.net/shop/index.php?cPath=57_49_32&ad=googleadwords.efithrottlebodies

Ok reading: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=417663&page=1

Some more reading: http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57710

More reading: http://www.jdmcivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36718

IMO if you want them you'll need a ECU, fuel system upgrade, and a good tuner. I see no reason for new internals although that helps. All it does is take the place of the stock intake system. Not much more than that. As for power I don't know as we never use them here at this altitude as NA motors suck here and are a waste of time. I was reading and people said they got about a 50-70% increase but I doubt it's that high, but I can't say for sure. After Google and Yahoo searches I found those sites but nothing that great.

[todaek9]

Alot of money, alot of time and alot of noise....hehehehe...

[wuism]

no need ITB's lahhh...

VTEC TURBBOOOO!!!! more power....

[marcus]

but its fast if instal in ur car

[ekslut]

Hey guys....if i would like to get quad throttles on my b16a....wat mods do i need? juz ecu or do i have to do internal mods? how much wud they cost and will i make power?

First off why do you want quad throttle's? For street use I would not reccomend it. They are loud, so it will attract a lot of cop attention. You would better off with a good throttle body & intake manifold on the street.

You will defiently need a new ecu, and a good one too, coz they are apparently hard to tune. So factor in extra money for the extra tunig time.
To take proper advantage of the quads you will need internal work. But they will work with stock internals (dont know how well though). Overall it will not increase your max power by a lot, but it will give you a large increase in mid range.

[panda[cRx]]

First off why do you want quad throttle's? For street use I would not reccomend it. They are loud, so it will attract a lot of cop attention. You would better off with a good throttle body & intake manifold on the street.

You will defiently need a new ecu, and a good one too, coz they are apparently hard to tune. So factor in extra money for the extra tunig time.
To take proper advantage of the quads you will need internal work. But they will work with stock internals (dont know how well though). Overall it will not increase your max power by a lot, but it will give you a large increase in mid range.

trev pretty much got it in one :thumbsup:

[Limbo]

people only go quad throttle when they are chasing max power, and staying NA. There are more cost effective ways to make power, i.e cams, p&p, increase displacement.

I had quad throttles on a 20v (they come stock) and it didn't even run them independent. I needed an aftermarket ECu and hours of tuning just to get alittle more power. it was loud, sounded great, but was hard to idle.
For the gain you gonna get its nominal compared with the price, unless you want it for the rice factor of having little filters ontop of your quad throttles

[daniel b16a]

oh okies...i though you would get massive power gain..im currently going to purchase an apexi power fc first....then thinking either to go na or so on...hmmm might juz do cams and p&p...
WUISM : TURBO...once u got ur k20a in ur eg...then yeah turbo for sure la!

[spardikis]

i'll probably get some quads in the near future, along with another set of cams - most probably a stage 2 set and 4-1's over 4-2-1's. my engine is tuned for a more mid range power band maxing at 110kw. I guess im just currious to see how they run, and to have a unique set up. cant wait! I expect alot more top end power which is where i play anyway...

[TODA AU]

Hey guys....if i would like to get quad throttles on my b16a....wat mods do i need? juz ecu or do i have to do internal mods? how much wud they cost and will i make power?

Minimum requirement:
ECU / Clear the fire wall (move a few things)

Usual practice:
Built race engine / fuel system / ECU / Ceared fire wall / custom airbox etc
Cylinder head porting is different.

Power output charateristic,
Example: A B16A making 220hp @ the flywheel @ 8600rpm using Type R intake manifold & throttle.
With no other changes, the quads will deliver approx an extra 30hp @ 5500rpm
However Peak power will only increase by approx 10hp.
This trend holds true with most engines.
Retuning is obviously required.

On a std engine, the gains would obviously be less.
& In my opinion, you'd be wasting your money fitting quads to a std engine.
Size of throttles makes a difference also.
This is rpm & capacity dependant. (avoid going too big)

[iamhappy46]

^^ Agreed.
4x 45mm throttle bodies can potentially flow the same amount of air as a single 90mm throttle body. Obviously, you would need camshafts/head work to be drawing in THAT much air flow. However, having shorter induction pipes change the resonant air frequency of the intake system, to promote more cylinder fill at hi rpm. If you were to have longer trumpets or fit a larger plenum with close to 4" piping to a larger single air filter in the factory location, it would make it more street friendly.

The Power FC would have troubly controlling ITB's and you wanted any sort of street driveability out of the engine, I would be fitting a MoTec ECU...

I agree that fitting ITB's on a otherwise standard engine is a waste of ca$h, it would have similiar gains to fitting a 80+mm TB on a stock motor.

[daniel b16a]

hmm so a better and cheaper option for stock b16a motor is a type r intake manifold? b16b or b18cr?
TODA AU: can u gime the link u had for all the options of modifying a b16a NA....i cant seem the find the link...thanks..

[TODA AU]

Without a cam change, there is little to be gained.
Infact, a Type R intake & throttle added to a std B16A will net a loss of approx 4hp with no other changes.
You can tune the power back into it, but again without a cam change it's a pretty much worthless mod.
Perhaps this will put quads into more perspective as to how they're not such a good idea on a near std engine.
Honda's do respond well to modification, but they are very sensitive to combination. Everything works togther. If one part of the system isn't right, you'll have issues.

[daniel b16a]

nice...so if i juz wanna do a head mod for b16a....wat cams should i go max? jun 2? i dont intend to touch the pistons part....then if i hav jun 2 would type r intake be good? also u got the link on the budgets u posted on modifyin b series?

[TODA AU]

You're going off topic.
The other answers you're after are no & no.

[ekslut]

have a read through this thread toda au has put together:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19495

This should answer you questions on how to setup your engine right.

[EG5]

The Power FC would have troubly controlling ITB's and you wanted any sort of street driveability out of the engine, I would be fitting a MoTec ECU...


I think you are wrong there , I have a customer using power FC + TWM itb , no problem at all , infact we are going to run our own itbs with power fc soon

[Non Vtec]

I've seen a few cars running ITB's with a Power FC, although something better would give better gains over the Power FC..
I'm running a Hondata to run my quads on my drag car... It idles at 800-900rpm with big cams.... if you got an air box kit that you can buy with most quads you'd probably see more power gains and be able to run a filter for the street easier..

[barefootbonzai]

I'm wanting to run ITB's with hondata S100. Is this advisable?

[iamhappy46]

OK, I stand corrected. I am basing that on Nissan experience... Honda MAP sensors are so much easier with ITB's :)

However, the Motec ECU makes it a lot easier.

[daniel b16a]

but if u get itbs u at least need to change cams or it wud be totally useless rite?

[iamhappy46]

Worthless with factory camshafts, the factory manifold flows well enough for the stock cams.

[aaronng]

^^ where would you find a Honda 90mm throttle body though? The largest B series throttle body was on the b18cr at 62mm...

[barefootbonzai]

^^ where would you find a Honda 90mm throttle body though? The largest B series throttle body was on the b18cr at 62mm...

no doubt there would be custom ones avalible. spoon make 70mm for a starters.

[iamhappy46]

^^ where would you find a Honda 90mm throttle body though? The largest B series throttle body was on the b18cr at 62mm...

Exactly, where would you find a 90mm Honda throttle body. If you have a N/A Honda in need of a 90mm throttle body, then you may as well fit ITB's :thumbsup:

I seriously doubt the factory B series inlet runners could be bored out to 45mm to make a 90mm throttle body worthwhile.

[aaronng]

no doubt there would be custom ones avalible. spoon make 70mm for a starters.
Spoon's 70mm throttle body is 70mm at the mouth. The butterfly is only 62mm. The real throttle body measurement is at the butterfly.

[Weq]

s2000 is 65mm.

[aaronng]

s2000 is 65mm.
B series man.... B series.

[Klayemore]

Does any1 have quad throttles on here for street use?

[CUL8R]

skunk2 make up to 70mm
i got 68mm

[Limbo]

Does any1 have quad throttles on here for street use?

i did but not anymore, car wasn't quick enough, and then needed a rebuild. So i sold it.

[EG5]

i did but not anymore, car wasn't quick enough, and then needed a rebuild. So i sold it.

What itb did you run before ? what ecu?

[todaek9]

hm...with ITB is not quick, hmm...mind telling me what sort of power you are pulling?

[Limbo]

ITB was stock, they run stock ITB on the 20v corollas, was imported of course. Ran a wolf 3d. v3.11 (it was a while ago), made 95kw at the wheels. Got an old dyno sheet somewhere

What i did was open up each on so that you could run a small pod ontop of each throttle. Sounded great though.

[aaronng]

skunk2 make up to 70mm
i got 68mm
:thumbsup:

[mr173]

I have a quad throttle in my EK4 civic Vit-R for long time, I have been installed 6 years ago, removed for few years due to feel too noise and reinstall back 1 years ago as I missing the racing feel again!!

it is a 4 x 45m OER quad throttle ITB with Microtech ECU
http://cartronicjapan.com/oer.htm
The ITB is very noisy if rev. above 5k, so I always keep it low unless want some fun and sure no cops around. soon I will make a cold air induction and airbox using piper X product for the ITB to reduce the noise so hope I can rev. it more on the street. http://www.pipercross.net/competition_carb_600_airbox.asp
But ITB give very strong racing feel, response and power, they are Excellent on the track.
I make 110kw on wheels, B16A with spoon cam, valve train, piston, megun header and spoon street exhaust.

[michael_antoi]

wow, havent been busted by the cops yet.

got any pics of the setup?

[daniel b16a]

megun header? new brand? wat pistons u using? nicee niceee

[mr173]

have once very close to busted, as I full throttle to rush for a traffic light that turning to red. I have full throttle all the way to redline (which is extremely noise), a cop suddently shows up stopped me, have opened my bonnet, lucky may be that cop don't know much about the engine (I have a pair of piper X grey colour filter shocks on the throttle, so not too outstanding) or may be he give me a chance. I didn't get charge.

I have the spoon's high comp pistons, oh and also a 3.9Kg B16A TODA flywheel (the earlier verson of TODA B16A flywheels that I install 7 years ago, at that time TODA flywheel is only 3.9KG but it was too light, so after a while they change to 4.1KG)

I don't have a pic. of the engine, may be take one in the weekend.

[daniel b16a]

giv us ur list of mods mr173...everythin u done to engine...how much power?

[weezer]

mr173 was your car in hot 4s about 5 years ago?

[mr173]

mm.. ok... AUDM B16A with:

Intake:
OER quad throttle
Exhaust:
Mugen 4-1 header, local high flow cat, Spoon street muffer
Engine:
Spoon valve, Spoon spring, Spoon cam, Spoon cam pulley, Spoon piston, Spoon thiner gasket, Microtech ECU
Cooling:
Mugen thermo stat. Samco pipe, fluline alumium radiator
Drivetrain:
Toda flywheel, HD clutch

110kw on wheel, dyno at crydon motorsport few months ago (the engine now have some over heat problem due to once out of engine oil, at the time of dyno still no fix yet,so I think it can be better if I have rebuild the engine)

[grumpy rooster]

Quad throttle bodies are a waste of money unless you have reached the limits of the standard manifold and TB or you need more bottom and midrange punch for circuit racing. The money could be better used on headwork and the bottom end. Multi throttles would be one of the last mods to be done (if required as above).

[panda[cRx]]

who did the tuning? how reliable have you found it to be with daily driving?

[grumpy rooster]

I'd prefer not to say who did the tuning. But that person will never tune a car of mine again. But there would be no problem with running them on a daily driver provided they are set up properly (ie linkages) and tuned correctly. They "should" make it a nicer car to drive.

They will help especially when you have fairly big cams. With one throttle per cylinder they tend to smooth out the lumpiness at idle. But they are loud.

[panda[cRx]]

just asking coz i've seen 2nd hand OER quads dirt cheap around the place and have found it very tempting... even if only for a 2nd project

[mr173]

Weezer!! yes, my car was the black one in Hot 4 about 6 years ago!! Oct. 2000 issue of Hot 4, 6 years ago. Wow.. you are as old as me!!! haha.

Panda!! mm.. is that reliable for daily driving? my answer, is no!!! I agreed that Quad Throttle should be the last mod. for N/A, if you mainly on the street, for me now I would rather to spend the quad. throttle money for bigger displacement like 1.8 or B20+.

Grumpy Rooster! But back in to 1999, B16A don't have that much mod. option compared to now, at my mod. stage it was the last mod., I either go for expensive turbo (at that time turbo to B16A is a news, only japanese TopFuel can do it, all other turbo mod. available in OZ are for single cam honda only) I didn't heard anyone famous honda port and polish at that time. The only further mod. is go for 1.8 Kit from Spoon (bottom end) or quad throttle.
At that time no B20, no hondata, no ozhonda, no Toda cam, Toda header, (at that time Toda is still a new name, It still developing it's B16A flywheels, I have it's old version too light 3.9Kg flywheel in my car, no Toda sport injection system yet, so the ONLY quad throttle system for B16A is OER the old school brand name for AE86 years) and absolutly NO american parts for B16A, the state only have single cam, no no no... no Rocket cam, no type R parts (type R just launch), no JDM. ricer this term. Not like now, at that time mugen, spoon and Vision for Honda mod. is the only God! so quard throttle is the last mod. for me at that time!
=) yes I'm old!! haha

Now I just planning for my another major engine upgrade project after 6 years to my last mod. Now my plans is go to Dart B20+ tall block with 2.15L displacement B series engine rebuild, the only engine mod. part that I can keep is the quad. throttle. all cam, valve, spring, piston, ECU have to gone.

so I see quad. throttle is the ultimate intake system for N/A at that time. but untill now it's still the ultimate for N/A, notthing better than it in terms of enigne power and response, it give your car's racing feeling that is no other mod. can give. It is not comfortable for street but It has it's value, not waste of money!

[Perry]

[quote=mr173]Weezer!! yes, my car was the black one in Hot 4 about 6 years ago!! Oct. 2000 issue of Hot 4, 6 years ago. Wow.. you are as old as me!!! haha.

i just remmeber is ur ek the one featured with a few other ek's back then a white 1 i think, total was like 3 ek's with different mods yeah

[phantom_civic]

a red one, black n a white one i think/

[xtercii]

Weezer!! yes, my car was the black one in Hot 4 about 6 years ago!! Oct. 2000 issue of Hot 4, 6 years ago. Wow.. you are as old as me!!! haha.




I remeber your car too, I still have that hot4s issue. You car was done by Roger at Hybrid Vision right?

[Perry]

i really want to see ur car in real life loved those 3 ek's back then and still do, i remmeber see the white at mac uni a whille ago

[daniel b16a]

any pics?
any u guys done ITBS?

[mr173]

I have pic. in my computer now, but when I try to click the picture insert, it requesting a URL:// .....???

Can I direct upload?

[iamhappy46]

upload your pics to the Gallery, which is in the menu bar at the top of this page :) You can link the url from there or get somebody else to do it for you

[daniel b16a]

got pics yeT?

[mr173]

Thank You guys! Sorry for the waiting as I'm a bit busy recently!
Here is the pic. the OER quad throttle was covered by piper X dual socks filter
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/Honda_Civic_013.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/Honda_Civic_012.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/Honda_Civic_011.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/medium/prev25.jpg
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/Honda_Civic_016.jpg

[daniel b16a]

nicee....looks good...how much power u got now? list mods?

[AsH_]

im interested 2...
how much did you spend on the mods???

[Perry]

nice pics dude

[bennjamin]

nice pix. How much did the battery set u back ? and is it deep cycle ? Does it perform ok ?

[barefootbonzai]

Courtesy of JDMYard

http://users.tpg.com.au/duydang/car/yeah.jpg

[NeRV]

hot damn duy! i wanna hear this thing

[destrukshn]

Courtesy of JDMYard

http://users.tpg.com.au/duydang/car/yeah.jpg
buddy, that is sex.
lol.

[ALLMTR996]

Courtesy of JDMYard

http://users.tpg.com.au/duydang/car/yeah.jpg
Is this the car Dyno Dave worked on today up there in sunny QLD.
ALLMTR996

[JDM_type_R]

OOOUF wat a gangsta.. who needs a K20 !!

[daniel b16a]

****k thats nice....got videos?

[barefootbonzai]

Is this the car Dyno Dave worked on today up there in sunny QLD.
ALLMTR996

Yeah mate, i'll be back out there today after work.

[riceball]

this car is teh sex

[jooboo]

oooo damn thats sex *****! *drewlz*

[barefootbonzai]

you guys are poofs. but that's y we hang out together, lol.

[fatboyz39]

damn man.... finally getting tuned aye? hehhee


they look AWESOME DUDE, better still have them when i come back up there :P

[spardikis]

thats what i like to see:) hopin for the same on the gsi-R, but all in good time!

[nigs]

Nice bloody work D.
Sounds ****en AWESOME! Will someone be making vid's of this beast in action?

[Edgeauto]

http://www.edgeautomotive.com.au/Download.html
Check out the link to see/hear the ITBs we made from a 20v toyota.

[ALLMTR996]

Yeah mate, i'll be back out there today after work.
I spoke to Dave again today he said that everyone is very happy with there results and you said the car now drives like its STD.
ALLMTR996