Corrective action for understeer

[TKO]

What to do to correct under steer?
When you realise you got in too quick for a corner, your car is under steering and heading straight into the barrier. Your foot is still on the gas at that moment. (Car is EG5, so no ABS available)
What to do next to correct it so than you will not crash straight ahead and not spin around and be able to keep going without stopping?

[bungsai]

Imho presented with this situation, i would prbably just brake and try and ride it out...

If you do not have abs you can some what imitate it, by releasing the brakes someone when you wheels lock up, then getting straight back onto the brakes. If you slam the steering wheel full lock and accelerate you may be lucky enough to pull your car out of the understeer as it is fwd, but this may in turn induce oversteer.

If you do not what to smash the engine whatever you could pull the handbrake, this would probably get the back to kick out a bit.

All in all dude, most understeer accidents do not end up with a guy heading straight into a barrier, rather the car just seems not to want to turn as much as you want, albeit still turning, sort of like in the video below,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKfhxsc2iYs

you can try throwing the weight of the car back onto the front of the car, hence unweighting the rear end, and thus encouraging oversteer...

all i can think of right now...

[Kandy]

tap the brake with your left foot while your right foot is still on the accelerator, this will transfer some of the weight of the vehicle to the front.
(don't try this if you haven't practised it somewhere safer-ish, as it could do worse things to your brake/rear wheels and/or create oversteer)

depending on where you are and on the corner, the speed and how commited you've gotten into the turn, i would probably try less pressure on the accelerator

[yourfather]

....... transferring more weight to the front won't necessarily fix the problem.

pulling the handbrake might help you out.

I know how to do it in a rwd car, but honestly, havent driven my FWD in a situation where I"ve had issues with understeer causing me to slide across a lane completely.

[JasonGilholme]

Transfer of what usually helps but depending on the car you really need to get alot of wait on the front again.

Never tried the hand brake but it could help.

[e240]

"tap the brake with your left foot while your right foot is still on the accelerator, this will transfer some of the weight of the vehicle to the front."

Don't do that, you're already panicking and will probably lock the fronts, making everything worse.

And don't "Slam the steering into a full lock", you'll just get yourself into a pendulum and eventually spin out.

Just keep pointing the car in the direction you want to go and floor the accelerator, and hope for the best...

[destrukshn]

but the more your floor the accelerator the more you understeer.

try feathering the throttle.

[JasonGilholme]

Yeh. DON'T floor the accelelrator whatever you do. You will just get more wheelspin and continue to understeer.

[TKO]

Just keep pointing the car in the direction you want to go and floor the accelerator, and hope for the best...

That will definitely carry me to the barrier as the car clearly will not make the cornor as it is already.

[e240]

That will definitely carry me to the barrier as the car clearly will not make the cornor as it is already.

I disagree, at least you have a chance of pulling out and continuing.

You could brake (only if you're confident of stopping before hitting the barrier - whether or not you have ABS), but most likely you'll be panicking and slam on the brakes....eeeeekkkkkkkk...BANG

You could back off - More likely to induce a lift off oversteer...

To continue accelerating doesn't sound logical, but you need to get over the survival instinct and get the car to continue pulling away from the slide.

Forget Handbrake, Left foot braking and other exotics...Its all talk bullshit...if you've never practise them, you're likely to make the situation worse...Keep it Simple.

[destrukshn]

like i said, feather the throttle, if you can control your throttle, you can probably get out of it.

[yourfather]

throttle control ftw

[bungsai]

That will definitely carry me to the barrier as the car clearly will not make the cornor as it is already.

the idea is not that you accelerate, but that the front wheels pull you out of the situation you are in.

[yourfather]

I disagree, at least you have a chance of pulling out and continuing.

You could brake (only if you're confident of stopping before hitting the barrier - whether or not you have ABS), but most likely you'll be panicking and slam on the brakes....eeeeekkkkkkkk...BANG

You could back off - More likely to induce a lift off oversteer...

To continue accelerating doesn't sound logical, but you need to get over the survival instinct and get the car to continue pulling away from the slide.

Forget Handbrake, Left foot braking and other exotics...Its all talk bullshit...if you've never practise them, you're likely to make the situation worse...Keep it Simple.

Good advice

[JasonGilholme]

the idea is not that you accelerate, but that the front wheels pull you out of the situation you are in.

But they can only do that if you have grip/traction. To gain some grip/traction you need to transfer some extra weight onto them via braking/lifting off the throttle slightly.

Careful though because, too much of a sudden weight change can turn you into an oversteer situation.

[|N|]

in situation like this.. if u brake .. ur rear may flick out.. which could be worst... depending on the speed u going... and how sharpe is the turn... .

IMO best thing to do it throttle control.....slowly ease out on throttle (no sudden movement pls) and wait till front tyres regain traction....

and i strongly do not advice left foot brake in situation like this... this is not the right way to use left foot brake... could result in nightmare....

so if it was for me.. throttle control is the key

[twing]

I went to murcotts driving and had a practice on this.
Don't turn too much on steering. The more turn the less grip.

also did a lift - oversteer... had a bit of dorifto :P
That happens when car goes too fast into corner and the gas pedal was released suddenly. It won't go oversteer if you give a gentle push on the brake pedal after you released the gas pedal.

Maybe better off know you and your car limit.. before committed in a high speed corner.

And also.. practice in GT4 helps :D

[aaronng]

There is understeer, and there is overspeed. There is a difference. Understeer is when you are exceeding the grip of your front tyres but your momentum is still within the limit of your tyre grip. Overspeeding on the other hand is when your car's forward momentum is exceeding the grip of the tyres that are trying to turn the car.

Overspeeding causes understeer in most cars, even RWD ones. In this case, you are describing overspeeding. The only way to correct it is to slow down or somehow get your nose pointed in the same direction as the road and try to pull yourself out (ala FF butt dragging) but without using the handbrake (since that will cause a 99% chance of your tail hitting the barrier).

I've had overspeed situations when on wakefield, and no amount of throttle control will get you through. All you can do is hang on to the brakes and hope your car's momentum reduces enough so that it can turn. For a 1400kg car overspeeding by 20km/h, it took about 1.5-2 seconds just to reduce enough speed before I could turn.

If you use the brakes in the corner, be careful and apply just enough of brake, otherwise the weight shift would cost you to swap ends. Always apply brakes before the corner.

The moral is, don't overspeed when you can see that there is a barrier in front of you. Otherwise, you might get the Darwin Award.

[string]

Agree'd with the above. Brakes are the answer. If you're going too fast, you don't get half-way through then realise, you'll be realising right at the start when you can't turn in.

Try it in the wet one time... Come in a little too fast, turn, and watch your front end stay straight. You hang on the brakes until you've slowed down enough that your front-end grips and you turn-in. Simple.

There is no one-answer to thses types of question. The best way is to know how the car reacts to each situation and apply it calmly to your current situation. You have to be going pretty damn fast around a corner to get some lift-off oversteer (to the point of a spin), and you'll definately not be going that fast on the street unless you have some seriously shitty rear tyres.

On the otherhand, if you are just understeering, in most cases, you let off the throttle and turn more. Brakes are usually never needed as it's not a "snap" understeer, there is a smooth transition from grip to understeer which you can pickup much quicker.

[j3z3z]

just go to an advanced driving school to learn or take a drive on the putty http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83DY4gnN14

[roar]

just two points...

if understeering (not overspeeding) another thing to do is to release some steering angle then reapply more gently...

if you are overspeeding and you feel nothing you do is gonna save your car...just slam on the brakes...
its better hitting a barrier at 70km/h than 100km/h
who cares about the car in the end, its just a car

[destrukshn]

just two points...

if understeering (not overspeeding) another thing to do is to release some steering angle then reapply more gently...

if you are overspeeding and you feel nothing you do is gonna save your car...just slam on the brakes...
its better hitting a barrier at 70km/h than 100km/h
who cares about the car in the end, its just a car
lol, it's not that, it's that this could save your life, not about the car.
lol.

[string]

just two points...

if understeering (not overspeeding) another thing to do is to release some steering angle then reapply more gently...

if you are overspeeding and you feel nothing you do is gonna save your car...just slam on the brakes...
its better hitting a barrier at 70km/h than 100km/h
who cares about the car in the end, its just a car
Releasing steering angle, then reapplying is going to do nothing at all for your speed (which is the factor of why you are losing front end grip). The only thing it will do is widen your turn angle even more, which, when understeering, is the last thing you want, other than to be hit by a mack truck from the other side of the road.

You are only right, if you have turned the wheel so much so quickly that you understeered due to impossible rates of turn-in. In this case you are stupid in the first place and deserve to plough off the road.

As I said earlier, if you are under-steering, you simply turn more, and/or apply less power.

[aaronng]

Releasing steering angle, then reapplying is going to do nothing at all for your speed (which is the factor of why you are losing front end grip). The only thing it will do is widen your turn angle even more, which, when understeering, is the last thing you want, other than to be hit by a mack truck from the other side of the road.

You are only right, if you have turned the wheel so much so quickly that you understeered due to impossible rates of turn-in. In this case you are stupid in the first place and deserve to plough off the road.

As I said earlier, if you are under-steering, you simply turn more, and/or apply less power.
He mentioned for understeering, not overspeeding. :)

[krogoth]

just go to an advanced driving school to learn or take a drive on the putty http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83DY4gnN14

advanced driving school is the best idea so far

we can only give so much advice

u need to practice in controlled situations with a pro next to u

i dont think ur gona remeber wat u read on OH wen u oversteer next

but, id say, use the brakes, until the sideways momentum is lost, then accellerate swiftly to get car back into right direction

and if its a manual, do the braking in a low gear

like if u oversteer wile doing 70, keep it in gear 3, gear 4 or 5 is asking for more trouble

and good advice with the no left foot brake and no handrake, as mentioned keep it simple

[string]

He mentioned for understeering, not overspeeding. :)
Just because speed is a factor of "overspeeding" doesn't mean it isn't a factor of understeering. Re-read what I said again please.

[aaronng]

Just because speed is a factor of "overspeeding" doesn't mean it isn't a factor of understeering. Re-read what I said again please.
roar's advice to reducing steering angle and reapplying works for understeering where you have exceeded the slip angle of the tyres and hence have no more front grip because you are turning the wheel too much. When you reduce the tyre angle to below that of the limit, you regain grip while still having the wheel off-center.

It does not work for overspeeding where the reduction in tyre angle is not enough to regain grip on the road. Even with a very minor turn angle of the steering wheel, the tyres are not gripping the road.

Your advice of turning more to pull yourself out only works if the tyres still have grip on the road with that amount of steering angle.

Edited for typos and my sad reading skills

[string]

I definately did not suggest more power

[aaronng]

I definately did not suggest more power
My mistake. I read less power as more power. I am like Tim from Home Improvement. LOL

[string]

Haha it's late :)

It's a silly question really. If over-speed is out of the question, then we must be in steady-state cornering (since we've taken turn-in out of the equation). Now usually, people are going a constant speed here, so any under-steer present isn't corrected here, rather, with changing entry speed.

I think when most people say "under-steer", it means under-steer caused by excessive corner entry speed. Understeering in general most people just turn the wheel more to compensate, because, it works (to a point, which should never be reached if you maintain reasonable entry speeds).

I suppose the other option is people in constant radius turns deciding they want to increase speed, of which part of the solution will certainly be, decrease speed.

I think the bottom line is that any situation that you expect, you can describe to someone how to react. But for something unexpected, you can't. It's purely experience and knowledge.

[aaronng]

Haha it's late :)

It's a silly question really. If over-speed is out of the question, then we must be in steady-state cornering (since we've taken turn-in out of the equation). Now usually, people are going a constant speed here, so any under-steer present isn't corrected here, rather, with changing entry speed.

I think when most people say "under-steer", it means under-steer caused by excessive corner entry speed. Understeering in general most people just turn the wheel more to compensate, because, it works (to a point, at which, that point should never be reached if you maintain reasonable entry speeds).
I'm going by my track experience. If I turned the wheel too much, the car would slide and VSA turned on. If I was smooth with turning and turned just enough, the car would just follow the line. Granted, my car is as heavy as a cow.

[string]

I'm going by my track experience. If I turned the wheel too much, the car would slide and VSA turned on. If I was smooth with turning and turned just enough, the car would just follow the line. Granted, my car is as heavy as a cow.
There are far too many situations to apply one's solution to another; I really don't think much more needs to be said on this topic other than go take a drivers course. It is highly unlikely that anything said here will change the OP's natural reaction to a situation, so the best option is to change that natural reaction.

When you say your car would slide, what happened to turn-angle as you turned the wheel more? Are you saying that the more you turned the wheel, the less the car turned? This is certainly going to be true when you're on the limit of the tyres, but I definately don't think the OP was asking that. Again, there's so many situations at hand, that no one post could ever describe the correct course of action.

In my car, especially without power-steering, it's very easy to feel the front tyres slipping, and for situations where the tyres aren't on the limit, turning more has worked fine. But for situations where you were allready on the limit (or near), i've found that you just need to shed as much speed as you can, and try to get weigh over the fronts while maintaining good enough balance not to upset the rear. The only concequence then is the loss of turn radius; moral: don't drive hard on the very edge of a road.

Advanced Driver Course, stat!

/end thread :D

[aaronng]

When you say your car would slide, what happened to turn-angle as you turned the wheel more? Are you saying that the more you turned the wheel, the less the car turned? This is certainly going to be true when you're on the limit of the tyres, but I definately don't think the OP was asking that. Again, there's so many situations at hand, that no one post could ever describe the correct course of action.
Yup, the car ploughed straight ahead.



In my car, especially without power-steering, it's very easy to feel the front tyres slipping, and for situations where the tyres aren't on the limit, turning more has worked fine. But for situations where you were allready on the limit (or near), i've found that you just need to shed as much speed as you can, and try to get weigh over the fronts while maintaining good enough balance not to upset the rear. The only concequence then is the loss of turn radius; moral: don't drive hard on the very edge of a road.

Advanced Driver Course, stat!

/end thread :D
Agree 100%