ideal charge pipe design

[saxman]

So talking to a guy in the uk that I've been helping to set up a turbo kit, and we've been discussing lately ideal charge pipes. I've tried making carbon only pipes, but it's VERY difficult to do correctly. So, that leaves a few options...

those cheap aluminum pipes on ebay....
pro: very light weight, cheap, easy to cut, etc
cons: horrible heat insulation, very easy to deform(did a turbo for a guy in the uk, and when we tightened the clamps on the charge pipes, it actually bent the pipe and caused a boost leak)

steel u bends meant for exhaust...
pro: pretty cheap, readily available, better heat insulation than the aluminum pipes, easy to weld to, very strong
cons: heavy as hell... 30-40lbs in charge pipes alone, hard to cut

rubber lines...
pros: kinda pretty, easy to cut
cons: harder to splice together, don't always flow as well, can collapse under vacuum, etc




so I got to think of what could probably be the best charge pipes on a budget... something that's not too expensive, easy to cut to fit, no deformation, very high heat insulation, etc

so came up with this idea...

take the really thin aluminum pipes, and wrap them in a layer of basalt. Basalt is offered in fiberous forms, just like fiberglass/carbon/kevlar, but has WAY better heat insulation properties. Could be set with some good epoxy resin. You get a light weight charge pipe, with vastly superior heat insulation then anything else readily available, for a pretty reasonable price.

[JasonGilholme]

Sounds good man. :thumbsup:

And for the ricers out there...it could be finished nicely to be painted etc??

[saxman]

It'd be just as paintable as fiberglass when prepped correctly, but this is a functional mod first and aesthetic second... although woven basalt does resemble carbon fiber

[JasonGilholme]

cool. Sounds like you got a good product on your hands there. ;)

[saxman]

at this point, I'm just curious to hear other peoples opinions. It does certainly seem to solve a lot of issues though.

[JasonGilholme]

I'm totally noob when it comes to the workings of fibres etc but would you be able to wrap it with kevlar/CF as well? What do you think the price difference/results would be??

[saxman]

yes, you could... wouldn't require any extra effort. carbon and/or kevlar doesn't offer the same thermal insulation than basalt does(although still not to bad). Carbon carries a slightly higher weight and costs about 2-3 times that of the basalt.

[BRU51N]

those cheap aluminum pipes on ebay....
pro: very light weight, cheap, easy to cut, etc
cons: horrible heat insulation, very easy to deform(did a turbo for a guy in the uk, and when we tightened the clamps on the charge pipes, it actually bent the pipe and caused a boost leak)



how thin was the aluminium pipe? its the first ive heard of it.

you could try aluminium, and heat wrapping them to keep the temp in the pipe.

or silicon pipes like they use on wrx's

[saxman]

it was pretty thin... some ebay special.. was nice and light weight though.

The concept here is the same as heat wrapping, but in a much more permanent manner and using the insulator as a reinforcement, so lighter metal pipes can be used.


Those silicon pipes just don't do it for me. Too hard to modify for a diy type set up.

[superR]

would alluminium with an external ceramic coating do it?
this is what i have been think of doin to my alluminum cooler pipes.

[saxman]

yes, ceramic coating does the same thing... it's not a structural element though, so you have to use a heavier pipe, and I'd be curious to see the difference in price.

Other nice part is I can wrap the pipes in basalt myself... I can't do the ceramic coating.

[poid]

interesting idea saxman, i'll have to look into it a bit more cos i've not seen any mention of basalt wrapping before and i do like the idea of not having to send stuff away to be coated

[saxman]

it's still not going to be the easiest way to do... the sleeve of basalt gets slipped over the tube, then wetter out with resin, just like a fiberglass part. It's not a dry wrap like a normal header wrap.

[BRU51N]

when i recently went to ask around for a new screamer pipe to be made for my other car, afew of the metal fabricator shops recommended steam pipe.. they mentioned it was extremely strong and fairly light, and the structure of it look very solid.

maybe look more into steam pipes.. not sure what theyre made of.. ive held a small pipe, it was fairly light and was told it was less prone to cracks.

[poid]

steam pipe is commonly used for manifolds and dump pipes etc, but there's no real point of using it for charge piping as there arent the same heat or load issues.