K20a Aus spec or Jdm H22A type S

[fatboyz39]

What do u guys think would be a better conversion between the two?

h22a 220hp Type S (jdm spec) - 6k
k20a2 200hp (aus spec) - 12k

These are the rough price for both. Note: engine would be going into a EG civic

I 've seen both h22a and k20a do mid 13's pass. Is it worth the extra 6k for the k20a?

Which one would u chose?

[tRipitaka]

if you think about it..

k20 will have much more future support as it just came out..

whereas the h22 has come and gone..

but depends what you're after.. if you're happy with the h22, and the support it has.. then go for it..


if i had the extra money, i'd personally go for the k

[d15z1SUX]

is that just the price of the half cut not including labour? coz if it was damnnnn k20 12k not including labour would be heaps?!!?!!?

[jimmeh]

you can get the k20 intalled for 12k
supply and fit

[[[d a n n y]]]

h22a Cuts are around 2.5K-3K depending on what it is
but id say go for the K20

[aaronng]

One advantage of the K over the H is fuel consumption.

[fatboyz39]

those prices includes parts and engine. Labour is done in the backyard :) so thats free

[d15z1SUX]

hmm so who do i believe? fatboyz39 or jimmeh?

[barefootbonzai]

Value for money H22.
Baller status k20a!!! hahaha.

But seriesly, performance wise stock for stock it would be fairly even.

[jimmeh]

those prices includes parts and engine. Labour is done in the backyard :) so thats free

drive in and drive out 12k

[Limbo]

mate how long are you gonna keep the car?
for the price of the k20a, you could do a h22 with turbo.

That is certainly faster than the k20a ;)

Also replacement parts are cheaper. And more readily available

I don't think there is gonna be much difference in fuel consumption though.

[qstoria]

the k20 is a better motor all around. thats why it costs more. simple as that

[jdmlvn]

What do u guys think would be a better conversion between the two?

h22a 220hp Type S (jdm spec) - 6k
k20a2 200hp (aus spec) - 12k

These are the rough price for both. Note: engine would be going into a EG civic

I 've seen both h22a and k20a do mid 13's pass. Is it worth the extra 6k for the k20a?

Which one would u chose?
i agree that the k20a2 is a more modern engine.
but i would have to say, go with the h22a. it has 30nm more torque over the k20a.
in the modifying path, u will get more out of a 2.2l then a 2.0l

0.02

[fatboyz39]

hmmm so hard to decide ....

Might just get both and slap it in each car lol

[mtaing]

if your going down the all motor path, get the h22a. there is no replacement for displacement!!

[panda[cRx]]

h22a.... then u can gimme the money you would have saved

[WhiteAP1]

Check out www.modproject.com.au
Hes droped a h22a into a dc2. Jun also offer alot of aftermarket support for the engine.

[preludacris]

h22a without a thought .

6k is simply too big a difference in price. h22a is stronger anwyz .. :S prolly harder to get aftermarket kw out of tho. but an eg with a type S h22a would flyyyyyyy

[Sir_vtec]

personally i'd go with a k20a. if both were equal in power but fuel consumption was better in a k20a then that.

like most said already. the k20a is new and def will prob have more after market support then the h22a.

[spetz]

Personally K wins hands down
But there is a 6K price difference which is a lot to consider
I am sure an H22A with mild mods will still hammer in an EG
More so with 6K worth of mods it will be much much quicker than a K

But if you have BIG plans in the future, K would be the winner. And it is lighter too

[yourfather]

turbo h22a for 12 k driveaway.

stained undies - free

[riceball]

Badhbt had a JDM h22a swap in his dc2. From what i heard, he couldn't be anymore happier with his k20a conversion. It really depends what you're after.

My mates h22a got 300kms out of a full tank, My k20a gets 500kms.

[barefootbonzai]

I'm getting bloody 350 out of a tank with fuc-ked tunned b18.

bao would have got more if he tunned it properly as well.

It's really down to the $$$. Like if i had the money, K for sure, but unfortunitly i've spent the extra 6k on ricing, lol.

[Zilli]

whereas fuel economy is very important, i hardly think the conversion is going to be done to ensure great fuel economy, if that was the case why would he even swap.

Mate the H22A is a heavier motor, as such will alter the handling characteristics of the car, espcially one that is so light to start with. A lot of people on Honda-Tech have done this, might be worthwile checking that site out.

but a ballsy motor like the H22 would hammer straight line, then the K20 has a 6 speed

hehehe

decisions decisions

[IN73GZ]

u can get an aus spec k20 for like $8k

[xtercii]

h22a is stronger anwyz ..


What makes you say that? any proof?

[mj3610]

H22A is defenately the better option IMO. 6k is a big difference. i think i saw a type S H22A halfcut on tradingpost for $4500 2 weeks ago. correct me if im wrong but the type S h22a is 240hp, 20 more than the normal h22a.

[DynoDave]

Interesting H vs K I how many of you people have first hand experience with comparing these engines side by side ? and not quoting what a sales broucher tells you.I have a soft spot for both of these engines but if I had the money I would go K but not 2lt.
Regards Dyno Dave

[JohnnyVtec]

[QUOTE=fatboyz39]What do u guys think would be a better conversion between the two?

h22a 220hp Type S (jdm spec) - 6k
k20a2 200hp (aus spec) - 12k

Fatboy,

Have a look at some of my mate Dave Hickmans work. Look at his car and he's pulling "300" True WHP out of his H22. If you want to win, Go the H...
Too much stuff still being trial and error with the K series for them to have the necessary 1 up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/honda-acura-69mm-throttle-body-intake-combo-b16a-gsr_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33558QQihZ009QQitem Z190035100259QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Cheers,

[mtaing]

i emailed JUN a few months back and theyre lookin for about 4k and abit to ship down a piston and conrod kit. for the h22a, note they are high comp pistons aswell.

[yourfather]

K24a Ftmfw

[Non Vtec]

if you go k20.. then get a good header and hondata with a good tune on a K20a2 you'll make 200-220whp on a JDM K20A you'll make 220-235whp..

Or go the H22 and get a b-series gbox conversion kit and run a B-series box for better ratios. remove the balancing shafts to help reduce the weight and away you go..

Future mods as far as $$$ for HP goes you'll buy better stuff for the K-series than the H22 on a factory K20a2 block you can make around 250whp with very little effort.. and with a streetable set-up you can produce around the 270-280whp with new rods and pistons..

Issues with K-series conversions and reliability include big end bearings, chain tensioner failure(in early models), some gbox issues in early models, some oil pump issues in early models aswell.. but late 2002 onwards have had most of the issues fixed..

[Kenshin3180]

My previous car was an EH sedan with H22a from an SI Lude

Now I have an EJ8 with a JDM Integra R K20a

And overall my biggest reason I would have the 'K' over the 'H' is the gearbox. Shorter ratios, 6 speed and LSD.

[weezer]

I'd go H22 with H2B conversion ;)

[fatboyz39]

My previous car was an EH sedan with H22a from an SI Lude

Now I have an EJ8 with a JDM Integra R K20a

And overall my biggest reason I would have the 'K' over the 'H' is the gearbox. Shorter ratios, 6 speed and LSD.

h22a from a Si lude is completely different to a h22a type S. Type S gearbox has different gearing(shorter) 5peed gearbox with LSD and the ATTS.

Did you get a chanve to run you eh seden with the h22a down the quater?

[fatboyz39]

u can get an aus spec k20 for like $8k


8k is expensive for aus spec k20. You need to factor in that you CAN'T use the aus spec ECU, driveshafts.

[fatboyz39]

Or go the H22 and get a b-series gbox conversion kit and run a B-series box for better ratios. remove the balancing shafts to help reduce the weight and away you go..




B-series gearbox?? interesting. Is that possbile?

[Non Vtec]

there are kits avaliable for the B-series and D series box's onto the H and F-series motors... There is a post hidden somewhere on Honda-tech about the H2B kits and bisimoto racing do the d-series adapters as used in the Sohc 9sec all motor Honda insight..

As for the parts for a K20A conversion.. the AUS spec driveshafts should bolt straight into the car hub-diff.. the JDM spec will fit the 98 spec ITR hubs.. The ECU is abit of an issue but there are alot of JDM ecu's available..

[yourfather]

i dont think driveshafts are compatible.

[CUL8R]

the h22 is a beast and the k20 is well engineered.
h22 will have more torque, k20 will have more rpm.
h22 will have more displacement, k20 will have more support.

with a lot of money u can get a high reving, high comp, 2.4l h22(or h24a hehe) ANIMAL of a engine.

if i were u i would source a audm stock h22a, crack it open and build it up with some quality gear. personally i think the type s h22 is over rated, its just some higher domed pistons running higher comp, for the money saved u could make it more performance orientated. u dont need to go hardcore but h22 = 3k say 4k installed, where k20 was 12, so theres 8k for standalone ecu, lsd and some engine work.

[mj3610]

h22 = 3k say 4k installed, where k20 was 12, so theres 8k for standalone ecu, lsd and some engine work.
i called around for a week and found the cheapest h22a halfcut for 3k (was abit dodgy, didnt know how many ks it had) and the cheapest installer quoted me $2400.

[CUL8R]

sorry my bad, my car comes with a h22 stock so i have never really investigated it.

[preludacris]

What makes you say that? any proof?


go look at the power figures mate. h22a got more torque. thats what i mean by "stronger"

wouldnt the k20 sit further forward in the engine bay than the h22a?

[yourfather]

2jz Ftw

[fatboyz39]

thanks for everyones input so far....

but i probably lean towards the h22a.. a cheaper option:)

[GnJracing]

As me and my brother were weighing up the same question about a year and a half ago I'd like to share my thoughts. Everyone is probably thinking I'd go K20 but if I had to do it again I would probably go with the H22.

The H22 is MUCH cheaper alternative to the K and it also has good aftermarket support. The thing is the JDM H22 can make very similar power/torque figures to the JDM K20 without many mods at all.

As for the conversion go for a JDM K20 half cut... otherwise forget about it. I wouldn't want to fathom the trouble installing an Aussie K20 as the ECU can't be installed with Hondata (as far as I know) and the gearbox would be below par let alone the diveshaft issues!

Build a tough H22 Civic!:thumbsup:

[honda_b_blastn]

Jdm k20a's go far around 5000-7000, Now type S H22a's...i see alot people writing around 2-3K,being a rare package as it is id love to see anyone find one at that price range,jdm H22a with the M2A4 box yes 2000-3000.

fatboyz39- h22a EG times--my pb was 13.8 @101mile with a 2.1 60ft. standard P13 with cheap intake and 2.5 inch cat back.I did a huge write-up 1.5 years ago on this:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13733&highlight=h22a+civic

Bang for Buck id go H2B swap..;)

Also here is alink to alot of info on the H2B swap..:)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1638988

[CHU85]

yeah i'm with paul here (honda_b_blastn).
Bang for buck u can't go past the cheaper conversion and the availability of parts and prices. Yeah K20a is awesome and watnot, but is it worth the extra 6k?
Went for a spin in a eg hatch with the h22a, (honda_b_blastn's old setup) and damn it flies. So much torque in every gear.
end of the day, its how much $$$$ and experience you have.

[MR-VTEC]

yeah, you wanna lay out the approx costs of a h2b swap though.......

$799 US Dollars for the H2B kit + shipping = approx $1200-$1300 AUS landed
$300-$600 for aluminium flywheel
$1000-$1800 for b series box with lsd
$1000-$2000 for h series engine

- other things to factor in, mounts, alternator problems, balance shaft problems, the amount of work to get it to work properly if your not doin it yourself costs big $$$. its not a straight swap as lots of people may think, even quartersports says to be prepared to drop the motor in and out a few times before you will get it all to fit right....

also have you seen the hood clearance issues this kit leaves you with?

so in the end i dont personally think it is the 'best' bang for buck option in this case.....

[mj3610]

Jdm k20a's go far around 5000-7000, Now type S H22a's...i see alot people writing around 2-3K,being a rare package as it is id love to see anyone find one at that price range,jdm H22a with the M2A4 box yes 2000-3000.


they're all just pulling prices outta their asses, i called around for so long and found a good H22a type S frontcut for $4500, and a normal japspec H22a for $3000 and as i said that was really dodgy, other places had h22a halfcuts for around the 4k mark. and the chepaest installer i found quoted me $2400 drive in and out in 2 weeks, he would do all the custom mounts etc u just need to get the halfcut to him along with ur car.
so all up ur looking at 6k for H22a conversion, thats with stock clutch etc, 8k for H22a type S, and god knows how much for a K20a...

EDIT*
the prices i quoted were for a conversion for a CD5 accord, if anything its more for a civic as i'd imagine more work has to be done..

[barefootbonzai]

you guys crack me up. the orginal poster had the prices pretty much spot on and that's with install done by them at home, the extra costs are just parts needed to make it all work. so they are the only 2 prices we should be discussing.

there's no point in discussing any other prices, cause that's got nothing to do with it, because different people can get things for different rates.

For example the guy above is saying it would cost him 6k for a h22 conversion in his accord. I'm pretty sure if i had an accord it would cost me half that, so no point arguing on prices.

[mj3610]

For example the guy above is saying it would cost him 6k for a h22 conversion in his accord. I'm pretty sure if i had an accord it would cost me half that, so no point arguing on prices.
good for u :)
i'd still go for the H22a type S anyday...

[MR-VTEC]

you guys crack me up. the orginal poster had the prices pretty much spot on and that's with install done by them at home, the extra costs are just parts needed to make it all work. so they are the only 2 prices we should be discussing.

there's no point in discussing any other prices, cause that's got nothing to do with it, because different people can get things for different rates.

For example the guy above is saying it would cost him 6k for a h22 conversion in his accord. I'm pretty sure if i had an accord it would cost me half that, so no point arguing on prices.

gotta agree man, so true. give me $5k and i'll put a h series in your accord :D

[honda_b_blastn]

:thumbsup:
they're all just pulling prices outta their asses, i called around for so long and found a good H22a type S frontcut for $4500, and a normal japspec H22a for $3000 and as i said that was really dodgy, other places had h22a halfcuts for around the 4k mark. and the chepaest installer i found quoted me $2400 drive in and out in 2 weeks, he would do all the custom mounts etc u just need to get the halfcut to him along with ur car.
so all up ur looking at 6k for H22a conversion, thats with stock clutch etc, 8k for H22a type S, and god knows how much for a K20a...

EDIT*
the prices i quoted were for a conversion for a CD5 accord, if anything its more for a civic as i'd imagine more work has to be done..

did you read through my write up on a previous swap i have done?? check my end costing figures champ for the H swap into a civic chassis. As for the price i posted for the K20 package that is what i payed for my K20 package..If anyone is pulling shit of there ass it certainly is/will be you champ after been reamed with those prices you have been given:thumbsup:

Yes barefoot everyone gets different prices.

The starter of this thread has already contacted me outlining a price he has been given on a type s set up,which is very good:thumbsup: ..

[honda_b_blastn]

;)
yeah, you wanna lay out the approx costs of a h2b swap though.......

$799 US Dollars for the H2B kit + shipping = approx $1200-$1300 AUS landed
$300-$600 for aluminium flywheel
$1000-$1800 for b series box with lsd
$1000-$2000 for h series engine

- other things to factor in, mounts, alternator problems, balance shaft problems, the amount of work to get it to work properly if your not doin it yourself costs big $$$. its not a straight swap as lots of people may think, even quartersports says to be prepared to drop the motor in and out a few times before you will get it all to fit right....

also have you seen the hood clearance issues this kit leaves you with?

so in the end i dont personally think it is the 'best' bang for buck option in this case.....


ahh whats a swap without mods Richard;) no fun:thumbdwn:

[BADHBT]

Ive had both H22 Type S and A jdm k20
both engine had similar mods , header, intake, full exhaust, hondata/kpro
the k20 responded well with these mods compared to the h22 altho the h22 had great topend the in its class

in my opinion h22 and boost it just to be unique
but thats just me

[MR-VTEC]

;)


ahh whats a swap without mods Richard;) no fun:thumbdwn:

lol, true true, hurry up and get your nugget on the road;)

[mj3610]

:thumbsup:

did you read through my write up on a previous swap i have done?? check my end costing figures champ for the H swap into a civic chassis. As for the price i posted for the K20 package that is what i payed for my K20 package..If anyone is pulling shit of there ass it certainly is/will be you champ after been reamed with those prices you have been given:thumbsup:

Yes barefoot everyone gets different prices.

The starter of this thread has already contacted me outlining a price he has been given on a type s set up,which is very good:thumbsup: ..


i called around and done my research and put up the prices, not like some people that are just guessing how much it'll be, everyone gets diff prices but at the end of the day if u and me both call the same place we'll get the same price unless one of us knows someone there or u know somewhere better to call...

[fatboyz39]

back from the dead. We have choosn our setup. Write-up will be up soon.

[hinezz]

no doubt k20 FTW...cnt go wrong..

[riceball]

d series turbo ftw!!!

[barefootbonzai]

d series turbo ftw!!!

i'm glad you made the right choice jimmy. you can't go wrong with d-series turBO!

[Klayemore]

You should focus on finishing mine :p

[BlitZ]

i thought it was a city turbo motor...

[.::F[L]Y::.]

who said one D series turbo? one at the front and one at the back LOL

double D series twin turbo lol

[bal]

assuming that you have the money for either K or H and your just considering weather the price difference is worth it.

if the torque of the 2.2 is what attracts you to the h22a

have u considered k24a?

[Benson]

We have considered both. K-series is too costly for what we want. H22a in our opinion will get us far with the amount of money we have. Keep posted for our ALLMOTOR development

[bennjamin]

do it and keep us all posted :)

[aaronng]

assuming that you have the money for either K or H and your just considering weather the price difference is worth it.

if the torque of the 2.2 is what attracts you to the h22a

have u considered k24a?

No point going for a k24a unless you are spending money on the block. It revs lower than a h22a and makes similar torque. The only advantage is fuel consumption or if you need a late-year engine in a recent year chassis.

[bal]

thats true.

what does a h22 rev to? not to famila with them.

with a bit of work to the block and aftermarket ecu 8000-8600rpm should be possible for a k24a. no?

[WPN.22R]

revs easily to 8000rpm

H series are the BOMB!!

[aaronng]

thats true.

what does a h22 rev to? not to famila with them.

with a bit of work to the block and aftermarket ecu 8000-8600rpm should be possible for a k24a. no?

With a 99mm stroke? I think it would need resleeving every 100,000km.

[fatboyz39]

revs easily to 8000rpm

H series are the BOMB!!


All the way bro.

[barefootbonzai]

oh can't wait jimmy! i should have my turbo d-series done by then, so make sure you come and so we can race.

[ginganggooly]

With a 99mm stroke? I think it would need resleeving every 100,000km.

Are the harmonics that bad?

I've been told a few times that the weak link in the package is the valvetrain, and that the bottom end is good for 8k all day, every day...

[grumpy rooster]

Our H22A goes to 8k every gear change. It loves it. :cool:

You've made the right choice.

[aaronng]

Are the harmonics that bad?

I've been told a few times that the weak link in the package is the valvetrain, and that the bottom end is good for 8k all day, every day...

It's not the harmonics. It's the piston speed of 99mm stroke going at 8500rpm. That exceeds most Ferraris. The k24a doesn't have low friction liners like the other high revving engines, it's just a cast iron liner. To compare, an S2000's F20C at 9000rpm is pushing 4965 ft/min. A JDM k20A at 8400rpm does 4746 ft/min. A k24a at only 8000rpm is doing 5196 ft/min. You push it to 8500rpm, it's 5512 ft/min. That is much higher than an F20C, which was designed to live at high rpm since it has a ladder brace and a proper high RPM oil pump. Coupled with a long stroke with gives more side loading on the liners because of the short rods, the liners are going to be taking quite a bit of punishment.

The valvetrain has to be uprated, that is the first thing you should do if your k24a is going to be living at even 7000rpm for long durations. Easy way is to get k20a2 springs and swap them in.

[bal]

with upgraded valvetrain (lets say JDM k20a) and upgraded conrods and rod bolts still using the stock pistons etc in the k24a will this help the motor handle the higher revs?

[aaronng]

with upgraded valvetrain (lets say JDM k20a) and upgraded conrods and rod bolts still using the stock pistons etc in the k24a will this help the motor handle the higher revs?
Your rods/pistons won't disco dance in the block, the valves won't float, but it still doesn't solve the high piston speed at 8400rpm :) If you are changing the rods, you can destroke instead (Prototype Racing in the US had a k24a running at 2.3L). Not sure which crank they used, could have been an f23's, but I think I'm mistaken as the bore-to-bore distances for both engines should be different.

[BADHBT]

from experience
I’ve had both engines jdm h22 type s and a jdm k20a
I wouldn’t do an aus h22 unless your planning to open it up and build it.

h22 was heavy for my dc2, had to order stiffer rated springs for the front and a few other upgrades mainly to the front of the car to balance the cars characteristics, also its a taller motor so the pan sits quiet low, be cautious about the headers

but if i were you i would stock up on 2 min noodles and get your self a jdm k20

[bal]

Your rods/pistons won't disco dance in the block, the valves won't float, but it still doesn't solve the high piston speed at 8400rpm :) If you are changing the rods, you can destroke instead (Prototype Racing in the US had a k24a running at 2.3L). Not sure which crank they used, could have been an f23's, but I think I'm mistaken as the bore-to-bore distances for both engines should be different.

wow ok thats interesting i was under the impression that the rod and bolts would allow the 2.4 to rev much higher without being unsafe to the engine.

im currently getting a k24 put into my EG and the ECU that im getting unfortuatly does not have a rev limiter :( which means im going to have to be very careful when driving hard. what would you suggest i keep my rpm to?

by the way sorry for hi-jacking the thread

[EG5]

wow ok thats interesting i was under the impression that the rod and bolts would allow the 2.4 to rev much higher without being unsafe to the engine.

im currently getting a k24 put into my EG and the ECU that im getting unfortuatly does not have a rev limiter :( which means im going to have to be very careful when driving hard. what would you suggest i keep my rpm to?

by the way sorry for hi-jacking the thread

7500 rpm

dude run hondata kpro ecu for your K swap :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

Yup, even for the TSX race car in the SCCA Touring Car championship which has aftermarket internals and cams, they limit the rev to 7800rpm for reliability.

[pkn-xtc]

Your rods/pistons won't disco dance in the block, the valves won't float, but it still doesn't solve the high piston speed at 8400rpm :) If you are changing the rods, you can destroke instead (Prototype Racing in the US had a k24a running at 2.3L). Not sure which crank they used, could have been an f23's, but I think I'm mistaken as the bore-to-bore distances for both engines should be different.
You're right, a K24 running a '04 S2K crank (with a deckplate or custom rods) will destroke it to 2.3L. It will produce lower piston speeds and a good rod/stroke ratio that will let you rev the crap out of it. Bore to bore distances should be the same for both motors, RSRs drift S2K is stroked using a K24 crank, and H22 pistons and rods to produce a 2.4L.

[bal]

7500 rpm

dude run hondata kpro ecu for your K swap :thumbsup:

im running a mugen ECU which was recomended by my mechanic and sed to be as good as the kpro.

what are the advantages of the kpro?
have you had any experence with the mugen ECU.?

my friend has one in his k-swap and it seems to be really good, just no rev limiter

[aaronng]

im running a mugen ECU which was recomended by my mechanic and sed to be as good as the kpro.

what are the advantages of the kpro?
have you had any experence with the mugen ECU.?

my friend has one in his k-swap and it seems to be really good, just no rev limiter

Mugen ECU is just an ECU with different fuel, ignition, VTC mapping, vtec point and rev limiter. But you can't alter anything on it. The K-pro is programmable using software and a laptop. You can tune it when you change your mods, unlike the Mugen ECU which is fixed.

[EG5]

im running a mugen ECU which was recomended by my mechanic and sed to be as good as the kpro.

what are the advantages of the kpro?
have you had any experence with the mugen ECU.?

my friend has one in his k-swap and it seems to be really good, just no rev limiter

Mugen n1 ecu have rev limiter around 9000 rpm

[fatboyz39]

wow so much love for K....Where is the love for H?

This setup will be poors man K series swap.

[2_and]

I used to drive eg h22 type-S, i must say that engine was mean, but the only down side is the gear ratio which is 4.2.. now have sold the car and current owner ran it with result 13.2 1/4 mile ..
i would say h22-s with better gear ratio would be better than stock audm k series, but i still prefer k, you will get more power at the end ..

[barefootbonzai]

yeah they are planning to get rid of that ratio problem ;)

[fatboyz39]

yeah they are planning to get rid of that ratio problem ;)

lol quiet you. Yes its gonna have a special gearbox.

[barefootbonzai]

lol quiet you. Yes its gonna have a special gearbox.

hahah that's right, they are getting that super special D-series Turbo BOX!

[mr_vtec]

muhahahahahahahha lol i like that jimmy a special boxxx

[EL_DC5]

what engine is this Toda is talking about

Race engine - Improved production car / drag
TODA 2.4L crate engine (As used in ASM car)
Includes quad throttles / dry sump / exhaust manifold / Tuning data for Motec M800
300hp – guaranteed

[EL_DC5]

The au K20Z has more power than the K20a

[Benson]

what engine is this Toda is talking about

Race engine - Improved production car / drag
TODA 2.4L crate engine (As used in ASM car)
Includes quad throttles / dry sump / exhaust manifold / Tuning data for Motec M800
300hp – guaranteed

Impressive parts there. LOL. Is it gonig to make the 300hp atw or at the flywheel?

Be very careful of crate motors.

[WhoKnowz]

I used to drive eg h22 type-S, i must say that engine was mean, but the only down side is the gear ratio which is 4.2.. now have sold the car and current owner ran it with result 13.2 1/4 mile ..
i would say h22-s with better gear ratio would be better than stock audm k series, but i still prefer k, you will get more power at the end ..

with the gear ratios... you can pick up the mFactory 4.64 or the 5.2 Final drive for the H-series... that should fix the problem. Its pretty popular is the US. :D

H-series all the way!!

[grumpy rooster]

A H22A box with a 4.7 final drive and 22" slick is a good combination to run 115mph at 8,000rpm in 4th. :)

[fatboyz39]

with the gear ratios... you can pick up the mFactory 4.64 or the 5.2 Final drive for the H-series... that should fix the problem. Its pretty popular is the US. :D

H-series all the way!!

That fixes the gearing problem, but the shafts sits in a crap position.

[grumpy rooster]

Thats if you use Hasport mounts. Make your own and position the engine where it should be. You may need to do a little surgery under the car and to the firewall at the bottom though. ;)

[fatboyz39]

Thats if you use Hasport mounts. Make your own and position the engine where it should be. You may need to do a little surgery under the car and to the firewall at the bottom though. ;)

True, but you can also correct it by using some other gearbox ;);)

[grumpy rooster]

True as well.

I knew what you were saying. ;)

[Jarkz]

Go the H22a.... 13.2 @ 112 (wheel spinning) with only a cat-back (standard headers) and CAI. Not far off what K's are doing...

[riceball]

Go the H22a.... 13.2 @ 112 (wheel spinning) with only a cat-back (standard headers) and CAI. Not far off what K's are doing...

:thumbsup: Impressive. Are you using stock mounts? what tyres?

[Jarkz]

HCP Engineering Engine mounts & A/C bracket, Hasport rear trans mount.

Tyres are badly worn Falken Ziex's 205/50/16's.

[barefootbonzai]

very nice.

[Benson]

fark 112MPH thats massive. Im pretty sure its not a stock engine

[040501912]

I would say. stick to the k20a... more stuff its being developed compare to h22a.

h22a is getting older.. its been arround for awhile. while the new generations gonna take over it.

well from what i knew off. mate of mine back in indo had a H22a turbo fully built engine for drag on an eg hatch.. hardly touch 10 sec on 1/4 mile due to traction.. always on lows 11..

and still drive able on street. not so bad. but only at nightime :p lol!!

well dats some idea...

[EG5]

well from what i knew off. mate of mine back in indo had a H22a turbo fully built engine for drag on an eg hatch.. hardly touch 10 sec on 1/4 mile due to traction.. always on lows 11..



Which track did he race this h22a turbo eg drag car ? Sentul ?
Havent heard of any 11 sec FWD Hondas from Indo yet.
From what I know Sigma Speed B series powered EG drag car ran some low 12s and thats about it.

[SHW.70Y]

what engine is this Toda is talking about

Race engine - Improved production car / drag
TODA 2.4L crate engine (As used in ASM car)
Includes quad throttles / dry sump / exhaust manifold / Tuning data for Motec M800
300hp – guaranteed

the ASM car is a s2000 track car so im guessing it a F20C crate motor.

[040501912]

Which track did he race this h22a turbo eg drag car ? Sentul ?
Havent heard of any 11 sec FWD Hondas from Indo yet.
From what I know Sigma Speed B series powered EG drag car ran some low 12s and thats about it.

it was the black eg h22a
i think it was speedZ or something lah .. =X

[Bob san]

i'd say go the H22A. will cost less and you have a spare 6g. then you can either turbo it or strengthen the motor with JUN goodies and the upgrade the ecu too.

i personally have seen a few H22As inside old accords and civics. they are a lethal combination. sure the k20a is nice but only if u have the funds for it.

[Hyper_Performance]

K20A - Good power, good gearing, but costly
B16/18 - Less power, good gearing, cost effective
H22A - Good power, bad gearing, cost effective

The solution? H2B i.e H22A with B16/18 transmission. K-Power and acceleration at a fraction of the cost ;)

[cristian]

ask marc...he's had both type S h22a and a K20 put in his car...

[riceball]

ask marc...he's had both type S h22a and a K20 put in his car...


from experience
I’ve had both engines jdm h22 type s and a jdm k20a
I wouldn’t do an aus h22 unless your planning to open it up and build it.

h22 was heavy for my dc2, had to order stiffer rated springs for the front and a few other upgrades mainly to the front of the car to balance the cars characteristics, also its a taller motor so the pan sits quiet low, be cautious about the headers

but if i were you i would stock up on 2 min noodles and get your self a jdm k20

:thumbsup:

[cristian]

ooh my bad

[hinezz]

i woudnt buy anything else apart from a k-motor, tho its cost alot more, its worth the investment.

Kseries ftw!

[ZeForce]

K20A - Good power, good gearing, but costly
B16/18 - Less power, good gearing, cost effective
H22A - Good power, bad gearing, cost effective

The solution? H2B i.e H22A with B16/18 transmission. K-Power and acceleration at a fraction of the cost ;)

What you said got me thinking, so I thought I would play around with the idea on excel.... I wanted to see the data graphically and I found it quite interesting so thought I would share

Using dynos from http://www.importreview.com/dyno.html I tried to find near stock H22a, K20a JDM Type R and B18cR dynos which IMO best reflected the engines claimed flywheel figures.

So assuming ~20% drivetrain loss

=> 220hp TypeR K20a = ~175whp
=> 200hp H22a = ~160whp
=> 190hp B18cR = ~150whp

Note: These are US dynos so readings are high

http://a262.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/65/l_2217f6883f30f645aed8285475988f65.jpg

Nothing surprising here, pretty much what you would expect.

However, whats more interesting is when you graph each of the engine's torque curves factoring in gear ratios....

http://a549.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/111/l_5449f78fdbee8c113cf31a270a70dc24.jpg

The 6sp gearbox of the K20a clearly gives it an advantage

And since you mentioned H2B, here is H22a /w ITR gear ratios....

http://a493.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/79/l_150d1df6107288e80c40e7836d1cba3c.jpg

Definitely a big improvement, basically the more area under those curves the better the cars acceleration will be...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Benson]

Awesome post. Love the comparison.

[fatboyz39]

that H22a only 200hp. JDM type S has 220HP.

[grumpy rooster]

If the idea is to achieve the best possible 1/4 mile times then you really need to work back from what rpm your peak power is and hence what rpm you want to cross the finish line at. Then what gear you want (ie 4th or 5th) and then look at tyre size. Once you know all of that then you can look at gearbox ratios and final drive ratio.

There's no point going for a combination that lands you halfway through a gear over the line nowhere near peak power. Your just losing time. Its the total combination, not just a bunch of ratios. One combo is not best for all situations.

[Hyper_Performance]

Yup, absolutely spot on. The best situation is to usually hit your ET right at the end of 4th Gear, so you would want to change your gearing to suit this. Of course, what gearing you go for though all depends on your setup.

This is the main advantage of using a B-Series tranny over an H or K i.e Gearing Options ;)

[ZeForce]

If the idea is to achieve the best possible 1/4 mile times then you really need to work back from what rpm your peak power is and hence what rpm you want to cross the finish line at. Then what gear you want (ie 4th or 5th) and then look at tyre size. Once you know all of that then you can look at gearbox ratios and final drive ratio.

There's no point going for a combination that lands you halfway through a gear over the line nowhere near peak power. Your just losing time. Its the total combination, not just a bunch of ratios. One combo is not best for all situations.


Yup, absolutely spot on. The best situation is to usually hit your ET right at the end of 4th Gear, so you would want to change your gearing to suit this. Of course, what gearing you go for though all depends on your setup.

This is the main advantage of using a B-Series tranny over an H or K i.e Gearing Options ;)

I do agree, however that doesnt really apply for street applications where the first 3 gears are for accelerating, while 4th and 5th are used for cruising.

[Hyper_Performance]

Thats why a B-Series tranny is also good, as you can have a close ratio 1/2/3/4 for acceleration, and keep the stock 5th for low-rpm driving.

[EG5]

interesting TB + intake manifold design for h22a from Wilson manifold http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/titanmotorsports_1958_284805483

[hinezz]

fark thats nice man ^^

[fatboyz39]

WOW nice manifold. very interesting design.

[ALLMTR]

If you can source a H2B kit for a reasonable price, you couldnt go past a H22

[HRD2BQT]

d@mn with the TB pointing more of like towards the corner firewall....that'd be a little painful to design intake for that kit ... built in NOS tap/port is a bonus :)

[myztery]

for the k20a who does it and where plz just what iv been looking for drive in, drive out for 12k

[rayb3na_]

its funny when people bring up the h22a will alter your weight distrubution therefore alter ur handling but have u not noticed u pretty much do that anyway when u strip out the back? it evens affects with a stock motor maybe not as big but its still there.. so stripping out all the interior like fatboyz car would weight at the front really be a problem?

[fatboyz39]

If you have a B series engine equip into EG/DC/EK you can't go wrong with a H2B kit. Even a stock JDM h22a (not type S) with the bolt ons will runs 12's.

[fatboyz39]

update....never got to do the H2B swap as the H22a type S motor ran the ATTS and no one makes a adaptor plate for it.

[trism]

that sucks.

what about for a circuit car rather than a drag car?

k20/h22/boosted b motor?

[doggys_fan]

can u use the h2 on the h22 type s

[midnitebluevtec]

What do u guys think would be a better conversion between the two?

h22a 220hp Type S (jdm spec) - 6k
k20a2 200hp (aus spec) - 12k

These are the rough price for both. Note: engine would be going into a EG civic

I 've seen both h22a and k20a do mid 13's pass. Is it worth the extra 6k for the k20a?

Which one would u chose?

With all honesty if you want a dragger go with the h22a. With the k20a idea, i personally dont advise it because of the fact its way to pricy, ur paying 12 grand for the engine then you probablly have 2 do some customising i.e mounts. However beware with the h22a conversion, as it only is used for drag racing, cornering isnt the best due to the weight of the engine and differential. If you want a fast and reliable daily engine swap go for the b18a from the integra type r DC2's, these engines are great and offer a large variety of aftermarket parts. Hope this helps!!

[JDM.Power]

With all honesty if you want a dragger go with the h22a. With the k20a idea, i personally dont advise it because of the fact its way to pricy, ur paying 12 grand for the engine then you probablly have 2 do some customising i.e mounts. However beware with the h22a conversion, as it only is used for drag racing, cornering isnt the best due to the weight of the engine and differential. If you want a fast and reliable daily engine swap go for the b18a from the integra type r DC2's, these engines are great and offer a large variety of aftermarket parts. Hope this helps!!

yr of 2006...

[STiR]

I think the K20 set up will be lighter than the H set up? I may be wrong...

If that's the case, go K

[reedyek4]

Ive been always advised k20 over h22. lighter engine and better fuel economy give better overall "performance" and driveability as it were..but best to weigh up the price diference...as you are not talking about 1k here...

[45SET]

Ive been always advised k20 over h22. lighter engine and better fuel economy give better overall "performance" and driveability as it were..but best to weigh up the price diference...as you are not talking about 1k here...

Good advise...

You've been better 3 years ago...

[reedyek4]

Good advise...

You've been better 3 years ago...

i dint know honda had an engine called a k20 3 years ago :D

[STiR]

K20 is old... since 2002? DC5 type R.... that's 7 years mate

[reedyek4]

K20 is old... since 2002? DC5 type R.... that's 7 years mate

i meant my personally...i dint kno anything about hondas 2 years ago let alone three

[fatboyz39]

Old thread...... hmmm wank factor K series. Dollar value H22a.

[13bt]

Bang for buck... H22A + 4.64 FD