Problems with wiring eg b16a.

[kraftycuts]

Problems with conversion.

details are as follows.

-civic eg si 92
-ek b16a2 conversion
-obd1 to obd2 conversion harness

So what happened, well i tried to start the engine today and the thing just won't turn over... i narrowed it down to the injector plugs, now this is whats puzzling me. Ok there are 2 holes on the plugs [the first is power and the second earth] when i tested it with a light pen the first showed that there was power [ignition on] but when the ignition is off it shows that it is also earthed. whilst the second hole has no response what so ever... so now, has anyone had this type of problem and what do you suggest i do.

Could it be the ecu? or the harness itself? or the conversion harness?

argh this is so fustrating.

thanks
royce

[ECU-MAN]

are you using a ECU from a AUDM car

if so it has an immobilizer in it that wont let it start your car.

[kraftycuts]

yeah i'm using an audm ecu ... so how do i tackle this problem?

[ECU-MAN]

what is the ECU code number

[BlitZ]

i dont think ek have immbolisers on there ECU.. only 99-00 model AUDM ITR tegs have it..


I presume you are using an eg vti/sir engine harness? Else your std harness..

Wack on your std computer.. you should be able to start the car with it, if its ecu related

[kraftycuts]

i followed the diy for immo removal... that has solved the injector problems.
the car still won't kick over ... so now i am wondering do i need the alternator up and running for the engine to start?

the alternator is plugged in but the belt is not on yet...

[|N|]

buy my eg6 ecu ... obd1
LD

[kraftycuts]

thanks for the offer INI but i'm looking to try and fix the problem before spending $280 on your ecu...

so does any body have any other ideas on what the problem could be... I have done a compression test and all cylinders seems to be fine. i have taken apart my dizzy and it looks pretty good as well. Im kinda lost now.

thanks
royce

[CRXer]

Are u sure u fixed the injector prob,how did u determine they are working?

Is fuel pump priming?

Have u done a code check?

[kraftycuts]

well i used an light plug on the injectors and it flashed so thats how i figured that out.

How do you check if the fuel pump is priming. I know there is fuel getting to the block cause when i remove the spark plugs i can smell the fuel on the head and also when i did the compression test there were air fuel mixture being sprayed out.

Code check.... hmm i haven't done that yet.. will try on tuesday... is there anything else that i can do to check or try?

thanks

[barefootbonzai]

sounds strange. so your engine cranks but it just doesn't start?

[CRXer]

Ok,sounds like injectors work.

Put your head under the back of the car near fuel tank,when someone turns on ignition u will hear the pump prime for 2 secs.

If above ok,u know your getting fuel,u reckon u got compression,all thats left is air & spark.

IACV is hooked up? or at least throttle cable hooked up?so it can get some air.

Code check first,then check spark, at least that will narrow it down a bit more.

[BlitZ]

Is your car cranking ? i dont get it?

If its not cranking.. the first thing to do is to get it to crank..
you dont need antyhing for it to crank.. no fuel or spark needed..

Once that is soughted (maybe it is?)
Makle sure u got fuel...
Remove you spark plugs and crank the car abit first... this should give it some pre start oil pressure..

once done... put your nose on the plug hole and smell for petrol...
If not go to your back seat and listen for the fuel pump churning...

Once fuel is soughted check for spark...
Rip out one spark plug wire.. attach a spark plug at the end and place it need a rock cover nut..
Get mate to crank it.. you should see spark..

Once confirmed you will have starter, fuel and ignition.. then it should start..

Else.... im buggered..


Free to correct anything i say.. after all im a backyard mechanic... but all this has worked for me in the past and will just be the basic.. Further trouble shooting can be had once you figure what is missing..

[CRXer]

Injectors wont be flashing if its not cranking...........or am i misreading all this as well?

[fatboyz39]

Check the signal wire from the starter motor. I had this proble when i did this conversion.

It should crank over without fuel and sparks and etc.

Look back a few pages, there was a guy having similar problem. I've outline how to fix the problem in that thread.

[ECU-MAN]

are you getting spark.

do a spark test. if your ICM is not firing. the dizzy might not be getting power.

[kraftycuts]

well ok.... here is the low down on what i have done so far...

first - fuel pump is priming...
second - head compression tested good
third - spark present with lead and spark plug test

just to clarify... the car is cranking, but the engine won't start.

so to sum it up i got fuel, air, and spark.

The engine has been sitting there for months now... could there be a blockage somewhere... [i have done a full service all fluids and filters has been changed and a new belt thrown in for good measure]

[ECU-MAN]

change the spark plugs

when you say new belt do you mean timing belt

please check the ECU for fault codes

[kraftycuts]

Is your car cranking ? i dont get it?

If its not cranking.. the first thing to do is to get it to crank..
you dont need antyhing for it to crank.. no fuel or spark needed..

Once that is soughted (maybe it is?)
Makle sure u got fuel...
Remove you spark plugs and crank the car abit first... this should give it some pre start oil pressure..

once done... put your nose on the plug hole and smell for petrol...
If not go to your back seat and listen for the fuel pump churning...

Once fuel is soughted check for spark...
Rip out one spark plug wire.. attach a spark plug at the end and place it need a rock cover nut..
Get mate to crank it.. you should see spark..

Once confirmed you will have starter, fuel and ignition.. then it should start..

Else.... im buggered..


Free to correct anything i say.. after all im a backyard mechanic... but all this has worked for me in the past and will just be the basic.. Further trouble shooting can be had once you figure what is missing..

hey blitz ... thanks for the advise... have tried all of the above with no luck.

[kraftycuts]

Check the signal wire from the starter motor. I had this proble when i did this conversion.

It should crank over without fuel and sparks and etc.

Look back a few pages, there was a guy having similar problem. I've outline how to fix the problem in that thread.

i'll have a look into it .. thanks

[kraftycuts]

change the spark plugs

when you say new belt do you mean timming belt

please check the ECU for fault codes


yeah new timing belt and new plugs has been thrown in.

i'll check for the fault codes first thing on tuesday... hopefully not too many will pop up.

[michael_antoi]

timing could be off

did u install the belt urself?

[kraftycuts]

the belt was done by a mechanic at the shop. how can you tell if the timing is off... and would that cause damage to my engine?

[fatboyz39]

timing could be off

did u install the belt urself?

that could be the problem.

It could damage your engine if you keep on cranking :(. Get the timing all checked.

[michael_antoi]

it could damage your engine if he installe the timing belt wrongly.

if u can, get the mechy to check the timing.

[[[d a n n y]]]

is the shop open 2mrw?

[barefootbonzai]

just a long shoot, are your leads in the correct order?

[siksivic]

this sounds similar to a problem my mechanics had when they did my b16 install into my eg .. The car cranked, sparked but no ignition.. We found that the car kept blowing the relay fuse to the fuel pump... check for that... I am mechanic or anything just remember that they said that they had a bit of trouble with the relay fuse blowing...

[kraftycuts]

just a long shoot, are your leads in the correct order?

not sure... but i'll have a look into it. whats the correct order? just to make sure.

[kraftycuts]

this sounds similar to a problem my mechanics had when they did my b16 install into my eg .. The car cranked, sparked but no ignition.. We found that the car kept blowing the relay fuse to the fuel pump... check for that... I am mechanic or anything just remember that they said that they had a bit of trouble with the relay fuse blowing...


cool thanks for the heads up man... i'll look into it.

[ECU-MAN]

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/lead-order.jpg



if your valve timming is way wrong the engine would not start and damage would of been done on the 1st crank.

when your turn on the ignition does the engine light come on and go out.

[kraftycuts]

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/lead-order.jpg



if your valve timming is way wrong the engine would not start and damage would of been done on the 1st crank.

when your turn on the ignition does the engine light come on and go out.

awesome thanks for the pic man... so 1 is for chamber 1 which is the one closest to the passenger side right?!?
oh and why the yellow circle man?

[barefootbonzai]

1 is the furtherest from the dizzy. Just engnore the circle, it's probably from another thread. Hope this solves your problem.

[CRXer]

will also be a letter c in a circle on the top of the dizzy cap(u can just see it in the pic above plug number 1)
This confirms lead number 1 position,then clockwise 1-3-4-2.

[ECU-MAN]

1 is the furtherest from the dizzy. Just engnore the circle, it's probably from another thread. Hope this solves your problem.

thanks dude


exactly right

[kraftycuts]

thanks man....

[BlitZ]

well i guess you are making progress..

If you are sure everyhitng is there.. ie, fuel, spark, crank..

There its proabably sometiming issue which i am sure you already know..

Check as what everyone else has said ..

I would do it in this order:

Visual only check Spark plug firing order...

then
timing belt as if this is off you could end up with bent valves..

To do so.. jsut remove rocket cover...
Set to it TDC... ie. 2 up arrows to the top and the indicators (or slit) on the cam gears facing each other..

then get under the car and make sure your crank pulley's red line is align with that triangular prism on the lower timing belt cover..

Then if its all correct..

Go for the Dizzy...

[kraftycuts]

well i guess you are making progress..

If you are sure everyhitng is there.. ie, fuel, spark, crank..

There its proabably sometiming issue which i am sure you already know..

Check as what everyone else has said ..

I would do it in this order:

Visual only check Spark plug firing order...

then
timing belt as if this is off you could end up with bent valves..

To do so.. jsut remove rocket cover...
Set to it TDC... ie. 2 up arrows to the top and the indicators (or slit) on the cam gears facing each other..

then get under the car and make sure your crank pulley's red line is align with that triangular prism on the lower timing belt cover..

Then if its all correct..

Go for the Dizzy...

i'll definately check the belt tomorrow... kind of worried now.. hope there's no problems with bent valves and such...

royce:(

[kraftycuts]

just want some opinions... i'm thinking of removing the power steering from my si... should i keep it or should i dump it???

[ECU-MAN]

sorry blitz but thats wrong info


if the cams are set to TDC and the crank is set to the red mark then the valve timing is out

the cams set to TDC and the crank must be set to the white mark which is TDC not the red 16deg timing mark.

Iv seen lots of timing belts set with the red mark mistaken for TDC and the engine will still run ( like shit ) but you wouldnt bend valves.

[ECU-MAN]

just want some opinions... i'm thinking of removing the power steering from my si... should i keep it or should i dump it???

keep it

[kraftycuts]

keep it


hahaha nice and simple... ok

[BlitZ]

sorry blitz but thats wrong info


if the cams are set to TDC and the crank is set to the red mark then the valve timing is out

the cams set to TDC and the crank must be set to the white mark which is TDC not the red 16deg timing mark.

Iv seen lots of timing belts set with the red mark mistaken for TDC and the engine will still run ( like shit ) but you wouldnt bend valves.

good call..
I am not sure anymore than...
I always thought there was 3 marking and the red one being the middle one.. and the 2 outter white ones being the thresholds..
But what i noticed is that.. when i set to to red line and TDC... then i tighten the tensioner the maarking slightly moves off .. does that sound correct?

[BlitZ]

just want some opinions... i'm thinking of removing the power steering from my si... should i keep it or should i dump it???

Keep it there if u are thinking about ever selling it.. Else its a waste of room

[kraftycuts]

just a long shoot, are your leads in the correct order?

hahaha... guess what guys... the above was the problem... mechanic labelled the leads incorrectly and didn't plug it in the right way....

WOOT WOOT !!!!! the engine starts... well at least all the other stuff i have done made some sort of reassurance that my car is in good working order apart from code 14.

Now problem... code check came up with Number 14. iacv. Danny took it apart and gave it a good clean, but still threw the same code. What should i do?

note: [d a n n y] helped me heaps on the conversion. but he may claim to be king, (which he's not) but i'll give him a little credit.;)

thanks again guys

[[[d a n n y]]]

get out of here.. lol

[barefootbonzai]

That makes me king your books mate :P

I'm onto like my 15'th conversion and that happens to me when it's late at night ;)

[CRXer]

Pull the plug off the IACV & see if there is 12V on the yellow/black pin with ignition on.
Then test if other pin(colour?,black/blue i think) is continuous back to ecu pin A9 on OBD1,A12 on OBD2.

A quick test is pull the A plug on ecu off turn ign on & ground the IACV wire on & off, & see if u can hear the IACV click each time u ground it.

[kraftycuts]

Pull the plug off the IACV & see if there is 12V on the yellow/black pin with ignition on.
Then test if other pin(colour?,black/blue i think) is continuous back to ecu pin A9 on OBD1,A12 on OBD2.

A quick test is pull the A plug on ecu off turn ign on & ground the IACV wire on & off, & see if u can hear the IACV click each time u ground it.
ok i'll try that... hmmm... if it doesn't click does that mean i'll need a new iacv?
and if it clicks does that mean it works...

thanks

[CRXer]

click=:D
no click=:(

[kraftycuts]

click=:D
no click=:(

lol thanks

[ECU-MAN]

dont forget to get the ECU code for me

[kraftycuts]

oh yeah i had a look at the outside case of the ecu... and there was no code or barcode/sticker... where else to look?

[CRXer]

oh yeah i had a look at the outside case of the ecu... and there was no code or barcode/sticker... where else to look?

should be another sticker on top of the connector block(thing the plugs go into),u might have to remove the lid to see it properly.

Unless u guys are talking bout the software revision number? Can u get this info off the barcode or do u have to read it off the ROM?

[kraftycuts]

err... not sure man... i'll open it up and see if i can get a model number.

[ECU-MAN]

take a photo of it

[kraftycuts]

no probs. will do it tomorrow

[kraftycuts]

hey dudes... got more probs with the car...

k the eg threw an engine code 23... which is the knock sensor... this was done in the morning ... after i drove it to hanny's to get a check up... the engine light was on but after i attached the wires to pull the code up again the light just kept on without throwing codes?

i notice that when i turn the ignition switch on theres a poping sound from behind the cluster or near the fuses, is this normal?

ok second problem... when i drive the eg cold the car seems to work fine... but after the temp gauge starts working (theres a lag in the gauge needle rising) the engine light turns on and the car lags like hell. when i press the accelerator and let go to change gears the revs rises a few hundred then drops???

ok the above is what i have noticed so far... i know its alot to ask but has anyone come across this?

p.s. what does a knock sensor do... i know it detects knocking in the engine but whats knocking? <<< noob question

[bennjamin]

primary o2 heater might be the fault

[CRXer]

Knock is the resonance in the pistons,rods,bearings that is caused by your fuel igniting by something other than the spark plug.Examples would be intake air too hot ,sharp egdes on piston reliefs gettin hot,carbon deposits gettin hot,etc & igniting the fuel seperately to the spark.The meeting of the multiple explosions in the bore causes the resonance & u get that metal "knock" sound.ECU detects knock it retards the timing.

Did u use shielded wire on the knock sensor feed to the ecu out of interest?

Sounds like u might have got your ECT sender(to cluster guage) & your ECT sensor(to ECU) mixed up.

The sender gives a lower reading at normal operating temp than the sensor & the ECU would be making fuel compensations cos it thinks the motor is running hotter than it actually is.Would also explain the delay on the temp guage operation cos the sensor comes down from a much higher reading than the sender.Could also explain the pop behind the cluster cos your guage is tryin to go lower than its meant to.

Thats my uneducated 2cents+GST anyway,I'll send ya an invoice.

[kraftycuts]

ok so whats an ECT and where is it located?

how do i know for sure if it's reversed... ?

thanks
royce

[CRXer]

ECT= Engine Coolant Temperature.

ECT SENSOR= tells the ecu the temp. 2 wires attached,usually a red/white & a green/blue.Make sure red/white continuous back to ecu.

ECT SENDER= tells the cluster guage the temp. 1 wire attached,usually a yellow/green.Make sure continuous back to cluster temp guage.

Both of these are side by side,screwed into the block below the dizzy/vtec spool valve area.

Who wired it all up? tell them to check these arent reversed,simple thing to eliminate first before lookin elsewhere,could be a combo of other things.

How was the wiring done? ie are u runnin obd2 ecu,what engine harness did u use,are u using the stock car harness with extra wires?

[kraftycuts]

ok ... the engine harness is from the b16a2, i'm currently using the original harness (firewall ) from the si. with a conversion harness to the ecu.

well as for who wired it up ... it was danny ... for the most part and then i took over and hooked up the rest.

the above looks to be correct. could there be anything else? or should i go to good performance in yennora and get them to figure it out, i would rather save my money and do this on my own thougn!

[barefootbonzai]

Have you wired up your knock sensor yet?

[kraftycuts]

Have you wired up your knock sensor yet?

yeah i have actually... at least i think i have... it's a two wire plug above the oil filter right...?

[barefootbonzai]

what did you actually do? Of course the engine harness is gonna be connected to the knock sensor. But did you wire it from the engine harness to ecu? BTW it's a single wire from the knock sensor.

[kraftycuts]

hahahah ... wasn't me mang... some other dude helped me out... not gonna mention names

[civicboy]

hahahah ... wasn't me mang... some other dude helped me out... not gonna mention namesdat dude sux then! :thumbdwn:

[barefootbonzai]

should be simple man, since you using all stock wiring. 30 min max to work out whats wrong and fix it, by someone who knows.