Good 60ft + shit MPH = good ET??? WHY? [Archive]

zco

12-10-2006, 12:08 AM

when i ran a shitter 60ft, my mph was higher, because i had higher psi in tyres. the higher psi makes it harder to launch (shit 60ft), then once you're on the roll, for hte next 380metres, your car will have less drag coz you got higher psi in tyres. hence ! the better mph

my theory is.. if you can master a sick ass launch on high psi, your ET will be hektikk with a sick ass mph.

BlitZ

12-10-2006, 11:36 AM

hmzsz... i was running 20psi and got 2.3 60ft @ 159kmph
18 psi and got 2.2 60ft @ 151kmph

the lower 60ft time worked out alot better

Newcivic

12-10-2006, 12:11 PM

every 0.1 off your 60ft equates to about 0.2 off your et

luzinit

12-10-2006, 08:19 PM

every 0.1 off your 60ft equates to about 0.2 off your et

that's only true if u maintain ur mph, and if u drop psi, ur mph wont be as high.

basically everything zco said summed it up

ALLMTR

12-10-2006, 11:15 PM

When you load the motor with a good launch, you lose MPH. It's unavoidable.

xtercii

12-10-2006, 11:38 PM

When you load the motor with a good launch, you lose MPH. It's unavoidable.

can you please explain?

zco

13-10-2006, 01:07 AM

When you load the motor with a good launch, you lose MPH. It's unavoidable.

untrue..not always the case. i have made 2 diff launches. same mph diff 60ft times.

if you get your 60ft time lower, then obviously, your mph at that instant will be faster, but for the remaining 380metres, your mph will gradually become lower... it all comes back down to psi in tyres

grumpy rooster

13-10-2006, 09:05 AM

untrue..not always the case. i have made 2 diff launches. same mph diff 60ft times.

if you get your 60ft time lower, then obviously, your mph at that instant will be faster, but for the remaining 380metres, your mph will gradually become lower... it all comes back down to psi in tyres

That couldn't be more incorrect. It has absolutely nothing to do with tyre pressures. Its all about traction off the line, leading to better 60' times and then mph at the finish line. Tyre pressures may influence your traction but it is not because of tyre pressures your mph will change.

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 09:21 AM

This is exactly what i am saying, its a weird debate..

Zico.. look at your slips man: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52395

your 2nd shitty run had a higher mp/h than your best run (ET 14.8)
were u running the same tyre pressure?

zco

13-10-2006, 10:40 AM

That couldn't be more incorrect. It has absolutely nothing to do with tyre pressures. Its all about traction off the line, leading to better 60' times and then mph at the finish line. Tyre pressures may influence your traction but it is not because of tyre pressures your mph will change.

so you're saying, if you dont launch, taking off slowly, at 5psi on tyres, you can get a higher mph than on 40psi ? i dont think so.

no. i was runninng diff psi on tyres. that is why my 60ft time was better (coz i lowered it) and getting a lower mph.

you gotta factor in the way you drive for the runs. i drove the same way, and launched the same on the last 2 runs. so if you compare the last 2 runs, then what i sed is correct. if you look at your time slips,(keeping in mind you drove/launched the same way on those runs) you will see that what im saying is true.

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 11:26 AM

that is the only logical explanation

barefootbonzai

13-10-2006, 11:29 AM

This ones for the String fans, lol.

So in general, as your 60" time gets better, this is increasing your acceleration. Hence your total time will go down with your mph.

Acceleration:
a = (vf - vo)/t

a - acceleration
vf - final velocity
vo - original velocity
t - time

So for the drag strip:

A (the lower your 60ft time the larger this number) = mph/et

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 11:35 AM

This ones for the String fans, lol.

So in general, as your 60" time gets better, this is increasing your acceleration. Hence your total time will go down with your mph.

dont get it..

if i accelerate quicker wouldn't my top speed also be higher.. and not lower?

that unless my acceleration was determined from an initial speed at the 60ft time and not ZERO

barefootbonzai

13-10-2006, 11:44 AM

lol yeah, doesn't make sense now that i think about it, but the formula does show that if your acceleration increases how the other too are affected.

barefootbonzai

13-10-2006, 11:56 AM

100mph / 13.5 ET = 7.4
98mph / 13.0 ET = 7.5 (better 60 foot)

DynoDave

13-10-2006, 12:00 PM

Why does it everytime i land a good 60ft my MPH suffers...

The shitter my 60ft the better my MPH...

Does it sound weird.. or am i driving strangly..

I have notice this on other peoples runs too.:thumbsup:
Welcome to the technical side of drag racing.
Regards Dyno Dave

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 01:09 PM

Welcome to the technical side of drag racing.
Regards Dyno Dave

should have just stayed on the track...
kinda addictive

Da1nONLY

13-10-2006, 01:41 PM

yummy

13-10-2006, 02:14 PM

Hmmmz..
i tend to think of it like logically....
quicker 60ft = end of line sooner... therefore car dont have to accelerate that much to reach the end...
60ft (time it takes from start to the end of the first 18m)...

yeah.. i reckon if you get a crappy launch, car takes longer to reach the end. therefore you have more time to gain speed..

fatboyz39

13-10-2006, 03:05 PM

blitz my way of explanation was kinda right lol.

I just didn't involve the equations and maths into it.

Just get your 60ft down then worry about the rest later.

barefootbonzai

13-10-2006, 04:06 PM

now if you did maths b at school and rearranged the equation. we get something useful.

ET = mph/A(lower 60ft = bigger A).

man being technical is gay, just wanna make String proud, ahahahahahahahah

zco

13-10-2006, 04:40 PM

hqhah lol at the tech info.. damn e-mechanics haha

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 04:42 PM

blitz my way of explanation was kinda right lol.

I just didn't involve the equations and maths into it.

Just get your 60ft down then worry about the rest later.

I know just being a tyre kicker...

not sure if i should stay on 18psi and get a better 60" or increase it and practice on 20psi and get a high MPH..

zco

13-10-2006, 05:02 PM

thats the thing, i told you to leave it on 20, and practice on that, get a sick ass 60ft time, if its too hard, then that is when you start to lower your psi. haha

BlitZ

13-10-2006, 05:18 PM

thats the thing, i told you to leave it on 20, and practice on that, get a sick ass 60ft time, if its too hard, then that is when you start to lower your psi. haha

i only got 3 passes.. eheh
My first pass on 18psi got me the lowest time :thumbsup:

fatboyz39

13-10-2006, 06:15 PM

always next week!;)

phantom_civic

13-10-2006, 06:49 PM

next month...
come on
i need 2 save up for some things

zco

13-10-2006, 07:22 PM

i only got 3 passes.. eheh
My first pass on 18psi got me the lowest time :thumbsup:

I STARTED on 23psi, and coudlnt get better than a 2.301. changed it to 22psi and 60ft dropped to 2.225. hektik lol

wanna go in about 2 weeks time ? gotta fix the damn clutch and pressure plate.. and then install the mounts.. car is gonna get paid of next week. w00t !

ALLMTR

14-10-2006, 12:23 PM

zco

14-10-2006, 12:33 PM

Cool, thanx for the info. I'm new at this and always looking to learn

you cant be serious ? lol. i've read numoerous post by you, and it seems like you know what you're tlaking aobut.. doesnt seem like you're NEW at this.. haha pulling my leg ??;)

grumpy rooster

14-10-2006, 02:50 PM

I'm with ALLMTR. I have no idea how you still maintain tyre pressures is the absolute solution to mph and 60' time relationships.

zco

14-10-2006, 04:39 PM

notorious_ahmie

14-10-2006, 05:00 PM

it appears, for high powered cars - tyre pressures wouldnt play a big deal

but for such small cars with no power like blitz and myself, i have experiemnted, and it does make a diff in mph. not only myself, but other users such as .:F[L]Y:. and luzinit aswell

it made a diff for me!

runnin 32 psi on my wheels..take off didnt get to much traction..2nd gear was losing traction still throughout the rev range and then in 3rd gear it felt like the car wasnt stickin so i had to back off and change to 4th..

now wen we put it down to 28 psi for me i got better traction off take off..and didnt lost out on traction and felt stable..then again..this thread is about 60ft lol..i did a 2.2 with 32psi..and 2.044 with 28 psi and still gained more mph..although i did back off on the 1st run for a lil bit

.::F[L]Y::.

14-10-2006, 07:00 PM

i might as well join in. If you want a good 60ft then u drop the tyre pressure but it will effect your final ET. Due to more drag or resistence. I keep my tyre pressure at 20psi for the whole night and just worked at trying to improve the launch. It sorta helped as i got a beater pb.

guess it just comes down to practice, the more you go the better you will get. Unless your a pro driver or just talented and can do sick ass 60ft's first go.

notorious_ahmie

14-10-2006, 07:19 PM

Y::.']i might as well join in. If you want a good 60ft then u drop the tyre pressure but it will effect your final ET. Due to more drag or resistence. I keep my tyre pressure at 20psi for the whole night and just worked at trying to improve the launch. It sorta helped as i got a beater pb.

guess it just comes down to practice, the more you go the better you will get. Unless your a pro driver or just talented and can do sick ass 60ft's first go.

*cough cough* me :P nah jks jks

zco

14-10-2006, 08:28 PM

haha ahmie. your 60ft time is good if you compare to our Front wheel underpowered cars. if you compare it to rwd high powered cars, you're still a noob hehe

luzinit

15-10-2006, 05:32 PM

grumpy rooster

15-10-2006, 05:44 PM

this is starting to get all too confusing hahahaha

all i know is that tyre pressures do affect your time in some way. it is along the same lines as to why some people run thinner wheels at the back for FF drag cars, less resistance. now if you lower ur tyre pressure, there is a larger contact area with the strip, so i would guess this results in increased resistance and slower time, but better traction for launching. thats my opinion, im only a noob so if i am wrong, dont make me look silly. haha

They actually run skinny cross ply tyres so that the car will go straight and not want to "wobble" or fishtail at high speed. Running slicks at one end and radial tyres at the other on a car is a recipe for a high speed crash. The skinny tyres do offer slightly less resistance as well.

GnJracing

15-10-2006, 07:40 PM

I thought I'd join in the discussion also...

Tyre pressures aside you'll find Chuck (ALLMTR) is right. After I bought the car off him and put the b16a in it we ran consistent high 13.5's @ 103 on yokhama advans.
Now when we changed to the stickier bfgoodrich's we got consistent low 13.4's @ 101mph and we could never get the mph back with those tyres given the better 60 foots they provided.

.::F[L]Y::.

15-10-2006, 08:15 PM

yep def easier to get good 60ft with RWD cars.

luzinit

15-10-2006, 09:12 PM

When you load the motor with a good launch, you lose MPH. It's unavoidable.

Hey Chuck, can you or someone who participates regulary in the drag scene explain why this is so? Like why is it unavoidable??

ALLMTR

17-10-2006, 09:42 PM

I can't really explain it, I've just accepted it. Smarter men than I have argued this ad nausium without coming to an outcome.

I've just learned to accept it. People go on about running 100mph and 14 sec times claiming that with a perfect/gearing it would run 13 flat (which is true). The problem is that with a perfect launch it would load the motor and only run 98mph (for example)

grumpy rooster

17-10-2006, 10:09 PM

Chuck is correct. But a good estimate of times can be based on the mph. On a "perfect" run a car will run:

13.0 @ 100mph
12.0 @ 110mph
11.0 @ 120mph
10.0 @ 130mph
9.5 @ 140mph
9.0 @ 150mph

These perfect run figures are what a well set up V8 would run. A turbo car or FWD car will run a higher mph for the same time as a NA RWD.

luzinit

17-10-2006, 11:32 PM

thanks for the info, but still the question remains unanswered.. i guess i'll just have to accept hey? :rolleyes:

Weq

19-10-2006, 10:06 AM

Whoa a whole lot of posts about an irrelevant subject....... the only numbers that mean anything are your ET and reaction time they win the race mph/kph are in the nice to know category but don't mean anything to the outcome of the race....like who won. Mph/kph can be a useful tuning tool but that's about it. It's who got there first. I wouldn't be worried about my Mph with a reaction time like yours ... get a practice tree and start practicing or at least leave on the last yellow waiting for the green is a loosing proposition every time.

This is very untrue.

Drag racing is a breakdown of your slip. Improving one area has effects on every other area.

OT:
Nice discussion guys...

grumpy rooster

20-10-2006, 08:28 AM

Claymore.

What Weq posted is 100% correct. As you are. You are both correct.

Weq

20-10-2006, 10:08 AM

Weg this is very untrue........ tell me when a higher mph ever beat a lower ET and or reaction time??? Never happened. MPH is a tuning tool only, change the mph and not the ET and you still lose to the guy with the quicker ET and reaction time EVERY TIME. It's not how fast you are going at the end it's who gets there first. You show your ignorance about the subject of drag racing with posts like yours.

Ignorance. U assume too much for ur own good. Go read my post again, slap urself, and do us all a favour and press ALT+F4.

zco

21-10-2006, 01:14 AM

The sport is Drag RACING the object is to WIN not compare timing slips. MPH means nothing other than a tuning tool unless you are not there to WIN increasing your MPH means squat, nothing, zip, nzdda, zilch. The one who gets there first WINS the one with the fastest speed can brag to his buddies how fast he was BUT he still LOST.

some ppl build drag cars to break records. they dont give a shit about winning or losing to hte person next to em. not everyone wants to "win the race"

xtercii

21-10-2006, 08:26 AM

some ppl build drag cars to break records. they dont give a shit about winning or losing to hte person next to em. not everyone wants to "win the race"

this is very true tho, most of ppl at the drags are there run their best time or breaking records.

.::F[L]Y::.

21-10-2006, 08:34 AM

yep, most ppl dont go there to get a good reaction time. They go there to get a good ET. Which brings us back to the original question. The thread has sorta gone off topic imo.

zco

21-10-2006, 10:00 AM

question has been asnswered. time to end hte thread.

BlitZ

21-10-2006, 10:01 AM

horses for courses..
and maybe thailand is different to australia.

the cars u race aren't on par with one another... i was lined up with WRX, 180 etc etc.. and i only had a civic, they could have launched on 3rd gear and beat me...

And I personally aint too proud if i beat the car next to me and to have a slower slip.. so embarassing:o

BlitZ

21-10-2006, 10:06 AM

Answered...

It could be a mystery and up to debate..

there is no conclusion.. we just have to learn to accept it..

It will be on "Extraordinary" tv series in about 5 years time..

Thread closed.. OT

fatboyz39

21-10-2006, 05:27 PM

were not hardcore drag racers. Were just going out there to have fun and chase times.

zco

21-10-2006, 06:17 PM

Why would you not want to improve your reaction times??? What records are they trying to break if they are not there to win??

they are trying to break WORLD RECORDS. or even PERSONAL BEST TIMES . they are there to win , BUT i stated that not everyone WANTS TO WIN THE RACE
. they just want to beat themselves & records.

BlitZ

21-10-2006, 07:20 PM

Blitz if you go to the strip on a RACE DAY not test and tune nights even in Australian you will be paired against similar timed cars and if you put 14.5 for your dial in and the other guy is a 14.00 car you will get a .5 second head start, your green light will come on before his so back to winning you can win if you practice.

exactly.. so if u beat him with a handicap who won.....

Its not about beating him as he already has a handicap.. its about ET's..

I cant believe you still cant grasp that concept

BlitZ

21-10-2006, 07:22 PM

Blitz you need to study up a little bit. Even if you have a 14.00 civic and you are lined up against a 13.00 WRX if you cut a good reaction time of .520 or
.530 and the WRX driver does a shitty reaction time of 1.6 guess what if you run your normal 14.00 and he runs his normal 13.00 you just WON

and am i suppose to use my Hazards to signal my WIN haahha..:thumbsup:they obvious cant go off the ET.

zco

21-10-2006, 09:21 PM

ZCO what world records are they trying to break??

maybe ppl go to break fastest FWD NA/turbo, fastest RWD NA, fastest NA on street tyres. WAT EVER RECORDS THere are to break, ppl want to break it.

they obviously dont give a FOCK about R/T as they want the perfect launch as possible. so they take their time launching. WHY DO YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BEAT THE GUY NEXT TO YOU. THERE PPL DONT GIVE A FCUK. SO YOU CANT SAY THAT THE PURPOSE IS TO WIN

OMFG.. THIS IS SO ****IGN STUPOID

ADDED: IF they wanted to see who wanted to win in a RACE, they'd just race on teh streets. using traffic lights. go off that. no point spending 45bux and waiting 45minutes in between each run to see who wins.

ppl want to go and see their ET's and 60ft times on official printed slips

barefootbonzai

22-10-2006, 01:14 AM

funni stuff.

fatboyz39

22-10-2006, 10:04 AM

Thread should be locked..this has GONE way off topic!.

Im with zco/blitz on that too. Were not there to race "other car", going there for times.

.::F[L]Y::.

22-10-2006, 10:50 AM

Racing NOT to win is like "Boinking" wearing a condum... it's OK but it's not the "REAL THING". What the f#3k does what country you are racing in have to do with times?? If you have a shitty reaction time of 1.60 you are effectively giving the other guy a ONE SECOND HEAD START it's like waiting for two MORE EXTRA LIGHTS to go off before you start. Why would you not want to improve your reaction times??? What records are they trying to break if they are not there to win??

LOL so your telling me you would be happy to get over the line first but have a slower ET than the guy you were racing with??
When it comes down to the actual drag strip sometimes crossing the line first doesnt mean sh#t. If its on the street then yeh it would cus there is a no time slips to compare. :thumbsup:

phantom_civic

22-10-2006, 11:08 AM

maybe ppl go to break fastest FWD NA/turbo, fastest RWD NA, fastest NA on street tyres. WAT EVER RECORDS THere are to break, ppl want to break it.

they obviously dont give a FOCK about R/T as they want the perfect launch as possible. so they take their time launching. WHY DO YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BEAT THE GUY NEXT TO YOU. THERE PPL DONT GIVE A FCUK. SO YOU CANT SAY THAT THE PURPOSE IS TO WIN

OMFG.. THIS IS SO ****IGN STUPOID

ADDED: IF they wanted to see who wanted to win in a RACE, they'd just race on teh streets. using traffic lights. go off that. no point spending 45bux and waiting 45minutes in between each run to see who wins.

ppl want to go and see their ET's and 60ft times on official printed slips

Go zicO!!!

:thumbsup:
Its for your own personal enjoyment.

GnJracing

22-10-2006, 07:04 PM

Back to the topic of mph.. from my perspective it is a means to help you win in a DIAL-YOUR-OWN system. You see I race some quick VW's that run quicker et than us (high 11's to very low twelves) but have lower mph (107 to our 112). This means that even though they are quicker, we are chasing them in the top end and when its the first to cross the finish line without going under your dial in it is very important because you can control the race to an extent (because you can go faster but they can't). But saying that ET is king.

Now to the off topic of breaking records/getting pb's as apposed to winning races through reaction times. it all comes down to what you want to achieve. If it's a test n tune my brother and I sure as hell don't care who we are racing or try to cut a really good light to win.. we are trying to get pb's and push the limits of the car. But when we enter a competition round it is a different story. Qualifying is the best time to break a record or get a pb because the track is well prepped and it doesn't matter if you win or lose. However in eliminations the pb's can definately come another day and reaction times are the priority. There are others (like Online and their CRX) that would rather get a pb in this situation and if I was looking to break a major record I'd be doing the same... but since I'm not in a position to do so the best I can do is win so that's what I try to do.

Each to their own but both sides have their own valid arguments:thumbsup:

ginganggooly

31-10-2006, 02:25 PM

"ppl want to go and see their LOOSING ET's and 60ft times on official printed slips". Yea sure people want to go to a RACE track and loose???? That is what is so stupid.

It depends on your aim at the track. I know that i usually end up against an 11 second v8 or rotary. It'd be pretty pointless for me to try and get over the line in front of them.

Similarly, when you go to a track day, you don't engage in panel to panel racing in your street car, it's more about trying to get the quickest time you can.

So- for those of us without the means to run a dedicated race car, we're going to race the clock, and forget about the person in the next staging lane...

bennjamin

31-10-2006, 04:41 PM

id say all people who go for the first time to an official 1/4 , go to run for fun :)
And , they inadvertably will try to "race" at the drop of the green lightl. Its called adrenelin pumping...dosent matter what car you are up agaisnt lol.

R/T dosent matter at all. MY last run , i left ir 2.5 seconds before i crossed the beams and still caught up to the skyline in the other lane :)