Turbo B18c Perth

[Egsickvic]

Hello

me want to put a turbo kit on b18c but worried bout blow up. Mate has one tuned on 8psi and went 235whp He put it up to 12psi with bleed valve been running at this over 2yrs 55000kms now untuned. He been lucky I hope mine does same. anybody else have turbo on b18c in eg. and anybody now someone to fit/tune in perth Perth is in WA which is western australia

tankyou

[Beastcivic]

Engrish?

[Waggy]

^Give him a go mate.

Egsickvic - Your friend has been very lucky going that long untuned, I would suspect a sleeve crack sooner or later. A stock B18C (I'm assuming your aren't talking about an R) - would be more than capable of handling 8-10psi on a safe tune.

Depending on the turbo etc., it should net you upwards of 220hp.

[Beastcivic]

Egsickvic - Your friend has been very lucky going that long untuned, I would suspect a sleeve crack sooner or later. A stock B18C (I'm assuming your aren't talking about an R) - would be more than capable of handling 8-10psi on a safe tune.

Why do you say he would crack a sleeve sooner or later? I'm sure he has some type of management already, and 12psi isn't a big jump. It Cannot survive without being tuned, therefore if it has lasted 55000km's already, then Im pretty sure it's tune is sort-of fine. He probably has a boost dependant fuel reg on it and the extra psi of boost added some extra fuel, thats the only reason it would have lasted this long as there is no way possible that his ringlands are still intact @ 12psi without extra fuel. And most aftermarket ecu's have the timing already retarted at extra psi, so Im thinking the only reason it stayed alive was the aftermarket boost dependent reg, and the aftermarket ecu retarded timing at more boost.

[yourfather]

i speak the good english big mac.

Get it tuned.

Ask around, tuning is crucial

[civicCXI]

try xspeed or racetorque engineering in wangara. they should be able to give u advice and tune ur car

[SINISTR]

there is also Cypher Industries in OConnor and Ovaboost in Malaga

[Waggy]

Why do you say he would crack a sleeve sooner or later? I'm sure he has some type of management already, and 12psi isn't a big jump. It Cannot survive without being tuned, therefore if it has lasted 55000km's already, then Im pretty sure it's tune is sort-of fine. He probably has a boost dependant fuel reg on it and the extra psi of boost added some extra fuel, thats the only reason it would have lasted this long as there is no way possible that his ringlands are still intact @ 12psi without extra fuel. And most aftermarket ecu's have the timing already retarted at extra psi, so Im thinking the only reason it stayed alive was the aftermarket boost dependent reg, and the aftermarket ecu retarded timing at more boost.

Tuning is absolutely critical to ANY setup, let alone a boosted one! There are too many variables surrounding what could happen to that engine - whether it was running rich to avoid detonation or not. Without tuning - it will die. A cracked sleeve is purely one of the many things that could happen.

[Beastcivic]

Tuning is absolutely critical to ANY setup, let alone a boosted one! There are too many variables surrounding what could happen to that engine - whether it was running rich to avoid detonation or not. Without tuning - it will die. A cracked sleeve is purely one of the many things that could happen.


The point that he has ran his motor for over 2 years untuned, proves the fact that it has a pretty good tune anyway. It would never have lasted on 12psi without a tune. As I said before, the boost dependant reg would have compensated for the extra psi of boost, that is assuming he has one, I could be totally wrong. Care to add anymore info egsickvic.

[Egsickvic]

The point that he has ran his motor for over 2 years untuned, proves the fact that it has a pretty good tune anyway. It would never have lasted on 12psi without a tune. As I said before, the boost dependant reg would have compensated for the extra psi of boost, that is assuming he has one, I could be totally wrong. Care to add anymore info egsickvic.

Seem you are on ball He rang tuner and he said that he has a boostdependant regulator on it SARd and confirms what you said. I will run one aswell incase of spike so i get more fuel. that why it lasted.

[Beastcivic]

Seem you are on ball He rang tuner and he said that he has a boostdependant regulator on it SARd and confirms what you said. I will run one aswell incase of spike so i get more fuel. that why it lasted.

Actually mate, You should pretty much get it on the dyno just to check afr's and timing. But what the hell, if its lasted 2years, Rock On

[chee]

guys, bleed valves are shit. they spike. get an ecu and mate it with a ebc if you want to be able to control boost.

In regards to workshops,

Xspeed (built that silver dc2)
Cypher (built many tough hondas)
Speedworks (many tough cars)

[saxman]

he is REDICULOUSLY lucky if he's managed 12 psi for 2 years on an fmu


That's a set up that's just begging for catastrophic failure.

Understand that for his one case of it working, there are hundreds of motors that have blown using the same idea.

[daniel b16a]

try xspeed or cypher...they got good histories with vtec turbo and what not with honda's...

[Beastcivic]

he is REDICULOUSLY lucky if he's managed 12 psi for 2 years on an fmu


That's a set up that's just begging for catastrophic failure.

Understand that for his one case of it working, there are hundreds of motors that have blown using the same idea.

Dude, he didn't say he has an fmu. I know you guys in america don't use adjustable boost dependant fuel pressure reg's, but here in Australia we do aswell as proper engine management. All that Sard does is adjust the fuel pressure up at a 1:1 ratio. And he said his mate has an ecu, Probably microtech which comes with the avo kit, not sure though. He got it tuned to 8psi then raised it to 12psi.

[shecomb]

If that's the case then the Microtech will compensate via the fuel tables. If an aftermarket ECU is tuned - boost levels DO NOT MATTER. You can run 4psi or 14psi, the computer will increase the fuel as required. The only constraint in my example is the ability of the components to deliver the capacity of fuel.

[saxman]

If that's the case then the Microtech will compensate via the fuel tables. If an aftermarket ECU is tuned - boost levels DO NOT MATTER. You can run 4psi or 14psi, the computer will increase the fuel as required. The only constraint in my example is the ability of the components to deliver the capacity of fuel.
not necessarily... if the ecu was only tuned to 4 psi, then it's not goign to compensate for 14... if it was tuned for a higher boost level than it was ran at, then yes, upping can be ok.

[HondaLva]

so bleed valves arent that good so EBC is the way to go....wat about a external wastegate....is that another option? I ask as i hav a VTi-R Integra w/ a 35R and a Tial 38mm gate being built atm on standard internals.....is it likely that i will encounter the same 'boost spikes'??

[FastFwd]

egsikvic....ive pretty much finished my project on my b16a2. took me since jan this yr to get it right after alot of Stress and pain and an empty wallet after my blown motor. TUNE IS CRITICAL.....trust me. and if you need any help i will be happy to assist. i installed the turbo kit with basic knowledge and alot of help from forums. after the blown motor i did the right thing, forged rebuild and i took apart pretty much my hole car to fix everything from an interior light to a stearing rack boot. and i did it all myself and im nothing special when it comes to motors but alot of help with forums and people who know people i finished the whole thing.

I got my tune from Speedworks, i was originally planning to go Overboost because ive heard alot of good things come from there but the new management at speedworks is really good. Also the new tuner who ive come close to know over the last couple months.

i got 220whp on 7psi with my b16a2. i was extremely happy...anyways send me a private message im glade to help you in what ever you need...i also have made a Turbo installation handbook for b series motors. which shows everything with pictures.

[chee]

FastFwd, im guessing you referring to Sean?

[FastFwd]

Yeh dude....good bloke

[chee]

Yeah Seans great!

I rate the wok highly.

[sub11z]

fastfwd: did u do anything to the heads? what piston and rods did you use in ur conversion?

very good set up

[shecomb]

not necessarily... if the ecu was only tuned to 4 psi, then it's not goign to compensate for 14... if it was tuned for a higher boost level than it was ran at, then yes, upping can be ok.

ECUs are tuned for a given air/fuel mixture per RPM increment. the level of boost doesnt matter, if the car has more air at 4000rpm then the computer will match more fuel to keep the same stoich. only really need to d a safety check with a boost run for top end to make sure it doesnt lean to ensure the fuel components can supply the required amounts.

[Beastcivic]

ECUs are tuned for a given air/fuel mixture per RPM increment. the level of boost doesnt matter, if the car has more air at 4000rpm then the computer will match more fuel to keep the same stoich. only really need to d a safety check with a boost run for top end to make sure it doesnt lean to ensure the fuel components can supply the required amounts.

Think about this, If you have tuned with boost at 15psi at 5000rpm and you add more boost @ 5000rpm, then the computer is going to throw the same amount of fuel in but there is more air(cause of the increased boost) and you go leaner. The opposite happens if you decrease boost, you go richer.

[saxman]

ECUs are tuned for a given air/fuel mixture per RPM increment. the level of boost doesnt matter, if the car has more air at 4000rpm then the computer will match more fuel to keep the same stoich. only really need to d a safety check with a boost run for top end to make sure it doesnt lean to ensure the fuel components can supply the required amounts.
This would be accurate for a motor that uses a mass air flow sensor set up... but we're talking about hondas that do not. On a map based system, fuel is determined by referencing the RPM and the map sensor pressure reading, which is a direct measurement of either the vacuum or boost in the intake manifold. There is a difference between 4 psi at 5000 rpm and 14 psi at 5000 rpm, and the computer determines this based on the pressure reading, not just the mass air flow.


Think about this, If you have tuned with boost at 15psi at 5000rpm and you add more boost @ 5000rpm, then the computer is going to throw the same amount of fuel in but there is more air(cause of the increased boost) and you go leaner. The opposite happens if you decrease boost, you go richer.
what he said is accurate for a motor running a mass air flow sensor. Basically the tuning is done in such a way that rpm and the flow of air coming into the motor determine fueling. In this case, the specific rpm isn't as important, as it's the overall airflow that's measured, something achieved by a combination of air volume, pressure, velocity, etc.

On a b18c, it's a completely irrelevant point.

[Beastcivic]

This would be accurate for a motor that uses a mass air flow sensor set up... but we're talking about hondas that do not. On a map based system, fuel is determined by referencing the RPM and the map sensor pressure reading, which is a direct measurement of either the vacuum or boost in the intake manifold. There is a difference between 4 psi at 5000 rpm and 14 psi at 5000 rpm, and the computer determines this based on the pressure reading, not just the mass air flow.


Well In my case what I said is completely accurate for me, cause when I tune my microtech, I tune @ rpm and map. I tuned to 21psi. Then I decreased the boost to 10psi for the street and I ran alot richer. So if what I said wasn't accurate then why did my afr change?

[saxman]

improper tuning of the lower boost values... If you tuned to 21 psi, then during that tuning, you had to have tuned for 10 psi.

For reference, here's a fuel table for a honda in uberdata
http://home.mn.rr.com/keebler65/honda/images/boostmap1.jpg

notice the top row that's grey... this gives map reading, be it in/hg on the left side for vacuum, or psi on the right for boost.

When a higher psi reading is given, it just selects the value from a column further to the right. If you're only going up to 10 psi, it's just going to select fuel values from the 10 psi column(or extrapolate from values on each side as there isn't a column for every single value).

If, after lowering the boost, you're getting a very rich condition, your columns that 10 psi is referencing from are not tuned correctly.

[FastFwd]

fastfwd: did u do anything to the heads? what piston and rods did you use in ur conversion?

very good set up

I've done minor head work, ajustable cam gears, and after the rebuild because i blew the stock setup i did forged pistons, rods, and crank. and i got some minor block work done.

I used JRE pistons i think they were called.
Scat rods
and i forgot the name of the crank. i got the boxes at home if you need the brands.

[shecomb]

I was refering to a complete aftermarket ECU and not Uberdata or Chrome or some crap. All i know is my car was fully tuned off boost and then i did a few on boost power runs to adjust ignition timing to extract additional power where available.

Have to admit there's not much "Honda" left in the engine management of my car

[saxman]

if you're still using a map sensor based set up, the concept is exactly the same. I could have chosen a fuel map from any of the programs, and it'd be more or less the same thing, I just happen to have an uberdata map handy.

Uberdata, like hondata and such, is just a software that makes the oem ecu completely adjustable. You just don't have to buy completely new hardware like your "complete aftermarket ECU". It still does the same thing, besides an option here or there.