Turbo Characteristics

[Blue]

Hi There Peops!

I have just become the proud owner of a certain turbo car...

I wont tell you its not a Honda- (anways)

I just wanted to inform you guys of what I have found as yet.

Cold night- Runs lean-

Warm day runs stoich-

(I know its meant to do this)

But at times I get no reading from my A/F gauge at all.

Whats on there...

Oh and BTW have you guys ever suffered the problem where your Turbo Timer takes way too long to turn off... I know even with my $1000 car alarm there is no way in hell I am walking away until its turned off and quiet(very protective owner)

Youre thoughts guys...

[TECBOY]

i hav no interest in this thread

[saxman]

wideband or narrowband o2 sensor?

[Mr_will]

wideband or narrowband o2 sensor?


wouldnt he be unable to get stoich reading if he had a narrowband?

[destrukshn]

i'd say narrowband.

[saxman]

wouldnt he be unable to get stoich reading if he had a narrowband?
a narrowband will basically either say "hi, I'm rich" "hi, I'm stoich" or "hi, I'm lean"


the issue with them is that you have to cover such a large a/f range with such a low voltage resolution, so the sensor is pretty much useless for giving out readings like this.

[Mr_will]

a narrowband will basically either say "hi, I'm rich" "hi, I'm stoich" or "hi, I'm lean"


the issue with them is that you have to cover such a large a/f range with such a low voltage resolution, so the sensor is pretty much useless for giving out readings like this.


narrow band sensors can only be ON, or OFF, and cant give an inbetween reading ie stoich. they either read rich or lean

[CUL8R]

buy yourself a good wideband and ull get an accurate a/f ratio

[CUL8R]

hes been whoring alot lately


hey blue....also been thinkin too, i got myself a PLX M300 wideband and know a guy who got his AEM wideband for simple on road tuning, if i could show u his a/f ratio it is a perfectly flat line its fantastic!

its a great investment if u have an aftermarket ecu

[Blue]

Yeah-

I have an aftermarket PC but I am planning to upgrade once a used macdaddy Motec LT8 or something really good comes along.

Have you guys got any prefernece to ECU' brands???


So you guys are pretty much saying that a decent "WIDEBAND SENSOR" (AEM) will do the trick... if so where to shop is the next question...

Ah stuff it- My car is going to be in the shop for the next 2 months anyway- Ill get it fitted then.

Get myself 160 atw... no more getting smashed by ladies at the lights in there over riced buzzboxes.:cool: (I do not condone street racing):o

[saxman]

narrow band sensors can only be ON, or OFF, and cant give an inbetween reading ie stoich. they either read rich or lean

a narrowband sensor runs on a 0-1v voltage signal to represent a large range. There's still a certain amount of variation of voltage from the signal. It's not just either on or off.

hondata has a nice graph showing the output voltage relative to a/f
http://www.hondata.com/images/techfjowbo2.gif

[saxman]

also, www.wbo2.com sells some nice wideband units

[CUL8R]

the plx m300 is a great unit
for something like hondata u can plug it in and use lambda tracing to adjust a/f ratios to suit.
cannot think of a better purchase ive made, gives me readout of A/f in the car and yeah just so simple.....read up on some and ull soon see ull want one too

[Mr_will]

a narrowband sensor runs on a 0-1v voltage signal to represent a large range. There's still a certain amount of variation of voltage from the signal. It's not just either on or off.

hondata has a nice graph showing the output voltage relative to a/f
http://www.hondata.com/images/techfjowbo2.gif

indeed it appears you are right. i stand corrected

[shecomb]

I would suggest getting a preferred tuner for your car and asking them for their ECU recommendation. Nothing worse than having a computer that a tuner is not familiar with or doesn't recommend.

[Blue]

Thanks Guys for all your help, hope others learnt something too.

[silver_screen]

dude.. the narrowband sensor on ur graph shows, on or off... doesnt show variance

[poid]

if it was on/off, there would be a straight line at 1v and a straight line at 0v. Clearly that isnt the case, and if it were then those little wanky A/F gauges that hook up to narrowband sensors wouldnt have those wonderful light shows either.

[saxman]

dude.. the narrowband sensor on ur graph shows, on or off... doesnt show variance


off that graph, what is the a/f output for .95v? .9v? .5v? .15v? .1v? etc

There's a difference in values for all of these, so it's clearly not on/off, it's just very poor resolution, which makes it pretty much useless.

[Blue]

So at the end of this should I be buying the unit mentioned earlier or not-

The fact is I have the guage installed in my trim already- so theres no going back-

I just want to know if I am running lean or not-thats the underlying purpose of these guages.

rich- not good stoich- good...

boost time... hoorah!

BTW- does anyone now of that BOV they use in FF1- the one that makes that cool sound...(multistage) I am planning a change in sound- atmo BOV is cool but illegal, and my next setup is bigger so I am told I will hear the damn thing operating anyway... so Its time to get legal but keep a cool swoosh sound.

[saxman]

a narrowband o2 sensor will NOT tell you if you're running in a safe condition though. There's so little resolution, it can't tell you the difference between an a/f of 12:1(safely rich) versus 13:1(too lean for a turbo motor, but still richer than stoich).

I'll tell you the same thing for either one, and one condition can/will blow your motor and the other is where it should be.

The only way to be able to safely tell if you're at the correct a/f is with a properly set up wideband o2 sensor.

[spardikis]

it's just very poor resolution, which makes it pretty much useless.

so so true. I wouldnt touch an a/f meter with out a good 'value/variance reading device' aka - o2 sensor.

[fatboyz39]

get your Air to fuel check out before giving a good beating.

WHat ECU are you running?

[Blue]

Stcok with a chip,

wanting to rum top of range motec soon though as the new motor will be a very psycho setup.

give people an eyeful too.

Hey Jimmy was that johns car at Autosalon???

[fatboyz39]

Stcok with a chip,

wanting to rum top of range motec soon though as the new motor will be a very psycho setup.



Get it onto a Dyno and check the air/fuel. I wouldn't trust those chips aye.

Why do you need a motec? IMO For your setup a motec will be useless, unless yours a race car then just go for any full aftermarket ECU i.e Microtech, adpatonic.

Talk to you tuner what ecu he recommends and etc.

It'll be gay to see a blown untune motor, have seen a few done this already.

And that air/fuel gauge, chuck that in the bin. Don't follow its only good for rice.

[BALIW]

Yeah-

I have an aftermarket PC but I am planning to upgrade once a used macdaddy Motec LT8 or something really good comes along.

Have you guys got any prefernece to ECU' brands???


So you guys are pretty much saying that a decent "WIDEBAND SENSOR" (AEM) will do the trick... if so where to shop is the next question...

Ah stuff it- My car is going to be in the shop for the next 2 months anyway- Ill get it fitted then.

Get myself 160 atw... no more getting smashed by ladies at the lights in there over riced buzzboxes.:cool: (I do not condone street racing):o



Bro,

If ur going to run a better ECu dont go for any piggyback ecu u wont get the power u want, its very limited.

Nways u want the LT10S just contact me. Thats the latest Microtech


Baliw

[Blue]

Dude- really after a motec when the engine goes in, heard bad stories with microtech,

Haltranics good too.

[silver_screen]

im runnin a LT10s in my rx7.. not a problem in the world dude :) awesome comp capable of many things :)

[Blue]

Thats good,

Just with the Swifts - I have heard bad stories, plus theres not too many good microtech tuners round my parts.

It all comes down to the tuner IMO.

really after a M4 or similiar.

[fatboyz39]

im using microtech in my swift, no probs at all.

I know a good tuner for microtech, pm me.

[Blue]

hey dude- what were you doing at coffs???

So whats up how come you were driving your brothers red car???

and is that white DC5 yours???

Oh yeah- and with the microtech- ill pay for haltech or motech rather cus what other experience marshy has had- microtechs a good ecu- but my choice is out of those 2 brands cus of their rep and tunability.

[shecomb]

hey dude- what were you doing at coffs???

So whats up how come you were driving your brothers red car???

and is that white DC5 yours???

Oh yeah- and with the microtech- ill pay for haltech or motech rather cus what other experience marshy has had- microtechs a good ecu- but my choice is out of those 2 brands cus of their rep and tunability.

There is a huge difference between haltech and MoTeC.. If you happy to pay then go fo the motec hands down

[Blue]

Yeah - have you triued both ecu's (both say top of range - current) in identical cars on the same day side by side- if not no way I can accept that comment-

Motec is good and so is Haltech- it does differ, only very slightly.

But if you knwo more please elaborate.

[shecomb]

Just look at the tuning parameters in each system.. MoTeC will have alot more adjustable points for better idle, timing, fueling etc. That's why its more expensive.

Haltech dont have alot of tunability in coldstart and idle so are not as easy to tune on high modded engines that need precise mixtures for smooth operation.

[Blue]

So in your honest opinion you reckon theyre better.

Thats good cause I really need a motec now then:p

Nah- I always knew they were a better unit but you can never get mechanics to really explain in Lamens terms how good or why- theyre always so "oh it depends on this and that" its just crap... the more you pay the more you get as simple as that - and all the way I have built my car I have noticed when I go cheap - it ends up costing me more in time and money.

and especially I get stressed cuase shit doesnt work !!!:thumbdwn:

[shecomb]

Find a good tuner and talk with them about your setup. 9 out of 10 times mechanics just get someone in to tune cars so find the "tuner" and talk with them. They will have their preferred ECUs and listen to what they advise.

Better for them to be tuning a car with an ECU their familiar with - saves everyone time and money!

[kid_dynamite]

Better for them to be tuning a car with an ECU their familiar with - saves everyone time and money!

That's the most important recommendation.

Not worth forking out for a Motec if you can't find a tuner for it!

And remember, every ECU/piggyback has it's proponents and critics.

[Blue]

True that,

But I know for my tuning needs I will go to a Motec "jedi master"

I am just doing my research now,


and if anybody reading these pages has a motec ecu - and you want to sell- hit me up yO!