For Sale vouches. Overkill

[Weq]

Guys re: this thread - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54670

If i vouch for something, I dont want to waste my time. This item is almost $10k worth of motor, more expensive then half the honda's on this bored. Now no one is going to buy something like this unless they beleive the sellers claims. Vounches from experienced members give claims instant validation and appeal. I do not want to be contacts b 20 different potential buyers who need validation. DynoDave also validated the price and contents of the sale. This is not some n00b bumping a post, its someone in the industry who can validate a sellers claims, and also provided information on the costs.

Its not like its a swaybar, or some mugen sticker, descretion should be used in these situations. So many unknowns exist, and a sellers word means very little. There have been MANY, and i mean MANY dishonest sellers on ozhonda. Plenty of people selling turbo kits/motors/custom parts who overstate or exgagerte details for there own gain.

[Q_ball]

A valid point u make their Jon,
Maybe a rewording of the FS posting conditions is in order for such big sales.

edit: In sayin that tho, do you feel it necessary to implement this into the sales for cars as well?
Currently vouches of n e kind are removed, unless theyre from the seller.

Or do you feel this should only be applied for the Parts for sale forum, and not the Cars for sale?

[sassy_fit_vtit]

i guess thats y before u buy u have to inspect your goods, I mean even if it were interstate, im sure that everyone knows someone from a different state to do a favour.. i agree that there are alot op people that are dishonest but OH isnt liable because we purchase at our own risk because it is over the net

[quangsta]

even then vouches are only worth so much either way if i was gonna spend 10k i aint gonna buy it on vouches nor would a vouche makeme wonna buy it more or less..also due to that fact that any friend of the seller can come on and say yerr this is so and so...no offense to u weq just saying... :)

[xtercii]

I think Weq makes an excellent point here, when you fork out large amount of money, you do want to know as much info as possible. Especially when you are dealing with a complete stranger, having someone experienced to vouch for that person it’s a good way to establish that initial trust.

However I do think vouches can be abused, in this case the buyer has to judge for themselves, I mean it’s not too hard to find out who’s been on this forum for ages and who’s got a bit of knowledge and credential.

[zco]

im with quangsta.. BUT then having read xtercii's post, this line sorta got me "you do want to know as mcuh info as possible" so i guess its stilll alrite that ppl can vouch.. gives the potential buyers "more" piece of mind

this vouching thing.. it does get overused, and abused by some of the seller's friend. i, for one, know that i have done it in the past myself. just vouched for the seller coz i knew them, and trying to help them sell their shiznitt.
kinda hard to decided whether "vouching" should be acceptable or not

[Weq]

i agree there has to be a limit. true. The above post is a special case for a few reasons:

* An engine cannot be pulled down and inspected for authenticate information.

* Engine components are all different and whether or not the engine has been put together correctly cannot be asertained through a pre-buy inspection. These are complex machines, defaintly, not all made equal. I know another engine for sale atm that i wouldnt trust in my sisters shitbox, the seller has been originally lied too and is now propergating the lie.

* Heads are only as good as the builders. Esp honda's. DynoDave heads are nothing to sneeze at and his validation/verification of costs are essential IMO. He doesnt really answer emails, espically from n00bs. Time is money.

Of course it is always buyer beware, but if i or other expereinced members wish to put our reputation on the line to back a sale, i feel we should be able too. I do consider myself well versed in the area of D-series and if u knew my background u would agree.

Vounching for the sake of vouching is not on.

As for where this can apply Cars and Specialitaly parts imo. U dont vouch for a mugen sticker, or a brand name part. The brand/reputation vouches for itself. U can vouch for a unusual component and whather it works as the seller is advertising.

[Mr_will]

this is all well and good, and i completely agree that vouching is desirable from the point of view that it can help less experienced buyers avoid being ripped off, but the problem is, who gets to decide who is worthy of vouching?

weq: you say you are experienced with d series, i have no reason to doubt it, but at the end of the day, there also isnt much evidence to support it, other than posts on this forum. im not having a go at you im just making the point

it is the buyers job to ensure that someone who knows what their doing inspects anything they intend to buy, whether it is themselves, or whether they pay a mechanic to do it.

vouching can easily turn argumentative with so many n00bs around, and at least atm the mods are keeping the fs threads clean by deleting annoying posts.

[xtercii]

maybe we can make no vouching for newcomers hehe...

[kraiye]

at first i thought vouching was good... it's up to the buyer to decide wether they will take it on board.
for example if dynodave vouches for something i'd listen but if someone like xtercii vouches for something it wouldnt mean anything to me simply because i dont know who he is, what he does or his background & experience with hondas (not a personal attack just an example cause i havnt seen u around :) )

but then i thought if someone is really interested they can just pm the seller if there's anyone to vouch for it and the potential buyer can then ask the voucher if they want. in a way i guess this also helps single out real potential buyers from the 'window shoppers'.
i think it should be up to the seller to check with the voucher first thats its ok to refer the buyer to them.

[xtercii]

You’ve just hurt my heart and destroyed my self-esteem. It’s utterly devastating and disheartening.
kidding.
The bottom line is vouching can only be used as a guideline, in the end you have to judge yourself.

[JasonGilholme]

You’ve just hurt my heart and destroyed my self-esteem. It’s utterly devastating and disheartening.
kidding.
The bottom line is vouching can only be used as a guideline, in the end you have to judge yourself.

I believe vouchin should be allowed and its totally up to the buyer to investigate the product as well as the history/reputation of the person who is vouching.

[Q_ball]

who gets to decide who is worthy of vouching?

This will be regulated by the Mods in charge of the FS section.

I personally agree that such items being sold (eg the example at hand) is eligable for a few vouches from members such as DynoDave and yourself Weq.

The only problem is, how do noobs know that yor're creditted in that field?
Theres no way for them to know or be able to guage that from readin the forums.
To them, you're jst another regular member.

DynoDave can be an exception, everyone knows the name, like a god in the tuning world.
As for you Weq, because ur arent as well known as Dave, to the normal member, ur jst another member on the forum.
Only the ppl that personally know you or know what you've been through relating to cars can vouch that you know what you're talking about.

It's hard trying to establish who can vouch and who can't as you will get the "normal" member that will argue that theyre experienced in the area cause theyve rebuilt their motor etc etc.
Mods dont know everyones background on the forums so this i near impossible to enforce fairly without having a million and 1 whingers if their vouch gets deleted.

[JasonGilholme]

Keep it simple.

The last thing you want is people complaining because you deleted their post about vouching.

I think everyone should be able to vouch, leave it up to the buyer to make assumptions/do research about the authenticity of the vouch.

You can't spoon feed everyone damnit.

[Q_ball]

Keep it simple.

The last thing you want is people complaining because you deleted their post about vouching.

I think everyone should be able to vouch, leave it up to the buyer to make assumptions/do research about the authenticity of the vouch.

Maybe its a good idea to make some sort of shortlist, of members that CAN vouch based on their knowledge and experience.
I feel that this could be implemented and left up to the discretion of the Mods and some of the members on the list.
Not sure about this part yet, but we could then display this shortlist at the top of the FS forum so that members can see that these ppl dont talk shit and do know what theyre on about.

How do you guys feel about that?

With regards to everyone being able to vouch, that will never happen as we've had a million spammers hit up the vouching at one stage...which is clearly spam. Thats why vouching has been removed completely.

[JasonGilholme]

Why don't the mods just let any one vouch but post a list of forumers that are knowledgable and possible what field they know alot about (ICE, sussy, engine, paint etc)

Otherwise someone with descent knowledge will get their post deleted which won't help the buyer at all.

just remember that people have brains and can do research as well.

[Weq]

U can put limits on vouching. Everyone is making great points about experience/knowledge. I know it will be hard to implement, but i think its a worthy exercise.

Rep points can also be used to assertain vouching

Just look at TV, always having celibrtys vouch for products. Also referred to as testimonials. Its a proven method of selling products.

To stop spam we need some vouching guidelines i suppose.

* Vouching has to refer to a particluar part of the product
* Vouching has to refer to a buyers claim about a product
* Vouching for price siting certain experience
* No vouching for standard of the shelf products. Unless excotic or rare.
* No vouching for sellers. This is not the point i am trying to make. This is upto the buyer to check 'references'.


Any more idea's?
These guidelines should cut down 90% of the spam. the rest of the 10% the mods can pickup?

[JasonGilholme]

* No vouching for standard off the shelf products.
* No vouching for sellers.

WTF?!?! most products people buy are off the shelf!
How are people meant to know what people think of a seller if theres no vouching


Ozhonda is really starting to dissappoint me. Too many rules that don't help the users!

[Q_ball]

WTF?!?! most products people buy are off the shelf!
How are people meant to know what people think of a seller if theres no vouching

Majority of sales will work in the same manner as they do now if the above is enforced.
Straight items off the shelf (e.g strut bar, coilovers, turbine) will not be allowed to be vouched for by members x, y and z as this information can be researched by the potential buyer.
Only unique sales like a completely built engine etc will be allowed to be vouched for.


People can find out information about a seller by looking at their trader rating.
The more points you have there, the more sales, experience and trust that seller will have within the community.

[CUL8R]

thing is also lately ive made atleast 4 more sales with no trader notification, simply coz people are lazy, wtf is with that? its a 1 min thing and they cbf.

as for the vouching maybe introducing somthing like u must have a minimum of 300pq points or something, those people have been on the forum long enough to contribute and probably have seen the seller around on the forums.

or u could introduce an invite only into the vouching ability, only specialists in fields can vouch for those products, eg. dyno dave, ecus/tuning/engines.....weq..engine builds.....proecu...ecus/tuning....ecuman.....EVERYTHIN lol and the list goes on

[bennjamin]

I see no point to "vouching" ~ its simpyl not needed.

The rules are easy - reply ONLY if interested OR if you can help out with discussion ( IE post up pictures or backup info)

Use the reputation to your own discretion and do some research yourself :)

[kraiye]

agreed, vouching brings too many complications to the equation.
let the buyer do the research and ask if theres anyone to vouch for it if they like.

[chicken8]

i vouch for ur point

[ek4-guy]

lol your vouching posts get deleted so you start a new thread suposedly about vouching.

I notice you just had to vouch for the the item in this thread, is this thread to vouch for the item or talk about vouching. I supose its served its purpose everyone knows who vouches for the item now sneaky but good :thumbsup:

[Weq]

lol your vouching posts get deleted so you start a new thread suposedly about vouching.

I notice you just had to vouch for the the item in this thread, is this thread to vouch for the item or talk about vouching. I supose its served its purpose everyone knows who vouches for the item now sneaky but good :thumbsup:

Dont even try to sound smart. Of course the above thread prompted me to post this. I am using this forum as it should, site dicusssion. I did not contaminate the opening thread.

Ben: dont even try to comment on selling and ethics. U are a serial offender. Behind peoples backs... sigh.

[bennjamin]

Ben: dont even try to comment on selling and ethics. U are a serial offender. Behind peoples backs... sigh.

Dont drag me into this mate. No offence aimed at you at all ~ but please quote me or tell me what i have done wrong. Pm me dude...or since you feel its such a serial offence , type it up here. THIS is a point which is itching you , and Im itching to know what the problem is ???

[Mr_will]

Ben: dont even try to comment on selling and ethics. U are a serial offender. Behind peoples backs... sigh.



hmm...his trade rating = 55, yours = 5. who are we going to believe?

[bennjamin]

hmm...his trade rating = 55, yours = 5. who are we going to believe?
I dont want to be part of another bitch session here. Lets leave it to pm ok.
If people have problems with anyone on this site , simply get bother to PM the person ? :wave:

[wynode]

I've had a read through this thread and the mods have also discussed it and vouches will not be going ahead as it is just too much trouble trying to draw up rules as to who can vouch, how much etc. Mods have enough work on their hands let alone having to deal with 'vouches'.

If a buyer is interested he/she will have to do their own research. Otherwise the thread ends up being full of vouches and ulreated replies.

[hondar]

the best way not to get rip off

educate yourself.

there is no fool proof system in the world.

if we rely on a system to back us up, it will bound to fail you.

simple rule of thumb

if it is too good to be true, then it is likely too good to be true.

sorry just stumble upon the thread. :D

[yourfather]

sound advice that.

i made my own mistakes, with my wheels, etc.

but education is something that takes time.

[ALLMTR996]

Guys re: this thread - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54670

If i vouch for something, I dont want to waste my time. This item is almost $10k worth of motor, more expensive then half the honda's on this bored. Now no one is going to buy something like this unless they beleive the sellers claims. Vounches from experienced members give claims instant validation and appeal. I do not want to be contacts b 20 different potential buyers who need validation. DynoDave also validated the price and contents of the sale. This is not some n00b bumping a post, its someone in the industry who can validate a sellers claims, and also provided information on the costs.

Its not like its a swaybar, or some mugen sticker, descretion should be used in these situations. So many unknowns exist, and a sellers word means very little. There have been MANY, and i mean MANY dishonest sellers on ozhonda. Plenty of people selling turbo kits/motors/custom parts who overstate or exgagerte details for there own gain.
Because Dyno Daves comment was deleted that is why he has gone from this site again, he was very pissed off as he was not bumping the sale just confirming the true value as he had supplied the customer with goods and services during his build.And was just giving an idea on what it would cost to build a setup like the one beastcivic had forsale.
ALLMTR996

[Q_ball]

It doesnt matter now,
Its been decided that who ever posts up a vouch, no matter who they are, their post will be deleted if found.
Vouches are only allowed by the seller, and even that is limited to one per day.

[bennjamin]

It doesnt matter now,
Its been decided that who ever posts up a vouch, no matter who they are, their post will be deleted if found.
Vouches are only allowed by the seller, and even that is limited to one per day.

Correct. Confirmed yonks ago :)

Take a read thru our terms and conditions and stickies located on every forum , or even PM a moderator for any ideas or problems.
The rules are there in plain english , reasons why anyone here ( new or old) gets frustrated at this site is beyound me. You break rules , they get enforced :)

Closed.