92 INTEGRA LS Random engine cutout.

[remi1au]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum.
I've just purchased a 92 Integra LS and am having a bit of a problem with random engine cut-outs.
Some times they might happen 5 times in one day or night, and other times none for 2 or 3 days.
Typically I would just be driving along and suddenly the orange engine management light will come on, followed a split second later by the engine cutting out and all the dash lights coming on (oil, alternator etc).
I coast to a stop and usually the engine will restart with a couple of attempts, other times it takes a few minutes of cranking.
Quite often after restarting it will cut out again a couple of km's later.
Restarting a hot engine is never a problem ( at petrol stations etc.), and cold starting is always excellent.
This does not seem to be related to the ambient temperature as it can happen on hot days or on cool nights.
I did search this forum and found an article about resoldering the "Main PGMFI Relay"

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796

which does sound similar.
Do you think it is likely that this is my problem or should I be looking elsewhere ?
Also, does anyone know good honest Honda specialist mechanic in Perth, preferably south of the river ?

[Edgeauto]

If the engine light is coming on it should be logging codes.It sounds more like ignition to me.

[remi1au]

No, It doesn't seem to log any codes.. ie no flashing of the orange engine light....

[Edgeauto]

being 92 it's OBD1 right?so you shorted out the 2 pin connector next to thr ecu or is it OBD0 and has a flashing light on the ECU?

[remi1au]

say what ! .... say that again in english.
I havn't shorted out anything....

[Edgeauto]

(92-93 Integra)To check for codes you will have to bridge the pins in a 2 pin connector which will be blue or grey in colour near the ECU. (89-91 Integra)Pull the carpet back and look at the flashing light on the ECU.

[bennjamin]

The problem is ignition related ~

check main relay (fuel+ignition) - located under the drivers side
check distributor internals ~ possible ignition coil or igniter unit faulty/need replacement
check spark plugs and spark plug leads
check fuel filter
check fuel !

[Mr_will]

+rep to you for searching first.

i say resolder your main relay and get back to us, if there are further problems the post above hits the nail square on the head as to further places to look

whatever you do, dont be stupid enough to buy a brand new relay from the stealership like i did! theyre stupidly expensive

[spardikis]

eletrical ignition imo, check engine codes for specifics yo!

[Edgeauto]

If the engine light is coming on it's more than likely to be an ignition output code so either igniter or related components.

[remi1au]

Thanks guys.... one thing I didn't point out, despite the cars age it has only done 168000 kms (I'm pretty sure that is genuine).
Is it common to have distributor probs at such low kms ?
Also I am going to need more comprehensive instructions for checking these "ECU" codes, is there a site or a previous post I can look at ?
Thanks guys.

[INTEGGRA]

just sell it an by mine...thats a better idea

[Rasputin]

Here's a link to a DIY (thank god for those) for an ECU check on a civic, hopefully this gives you a better idea.
Good luck.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8218

[string]

Sounds like main fuel relay. Ignition problems..... riiiight....

It's a dead givaway that it's the main fuel relay with the delay before the engine cuts out. The CEL comes on when the fuel relay kicks the bucket, however the entire fuel system is still presurised, so injector pulses still inject fuel, even though the fuel pump is off. When fuel pressure finally dries up, you'll stall; giving you the alternator light and the no oil pressure light.

[spardikis]

sounds on the money to me...

[vtegra]

ive had the same problem, where it cut out when ever it wanted.
it was the distributor, so mayb check urs out.

[remi1au]

Sounds like main fuel relay. Ignition problems..... riiiight....

When you say main fuel relay do you mean the PGMFI relay as per my original post ?

[SKREMN]

i have got a spare main relay for the da9

[Mr_will]

Sounds like main fuel relay. Ignition problems..... riiiight....

When you say main fuel relay do you mean the PGMFI relay as per my original post ?


yes that is what he means.

[vtegra]

y r u guys so sure that its a fuel relay, like what hes sayin that it will cut out when he is driving normally. ive had that same problem n had to replace the whole distributor.
honestly just go to ur mechanic n find out from him, it may be an electrical problem..

[string]

For the engine to cut out, you need to either stop fuel or spark. Compression take's care of itself, and we'll assume that the ECU is fine, so timing is also fine (4 requirements for engine operation).

An ignition coil or ignitor going out doesn't usually give you a second chance, let alone 5 chances per night. If it was a faulty crank position sensor (or any of the 3) then you won't be starting again.

From his initial post, he says that the CEL comes on, then the engine stalls.

If his coil or ignitor were dead, they don't trigger a CEL, they simply just stop sparking. The main fuel relay turning off DOES trigger the CEL. Many DA owners, including myself have experienced it while driving, not just upon starting.

Don't take it to a mechanic until you test a working main fuel relay. Just because a mechanic says that your distributor was ****ed and replaces it, doesn't mean it was really the problem. Which is why mechanically inclinded friends (or selves) are far better for finding the problem, and keeping the wallet heavy.

[remi1au]

Thanks for the spirited and prompt responses guys.... I intend trying the soldering of the PGMFI relay this weekend, (starting from the cheapest option first) I will keep you posted on what happens.

Thanks again.

[CRXer]

Why dont u try an even cheaper repair diagnosis,like lots of people above have posted(one person even put in a good link) & do a code check on the ecu???

Sometimes wonder where u get your info from sometimes string.....

The igniter is set up to trigger a CEL,the ecu does monitor the status of the ignition output signal(what do u think a code 15 is?),but,depending on how the ignitor fails(what state the control chip or transistor end up in,ie locked on or off) it will not always(usually doesnt) trigger the CEL.

Ignitor doesnt always just fail totally,theres been lots of reports of people restarting,misfiring,etc from ignitor probs.

U can restart a car with a bad CKP sensor,but it will most likely go into limp mode.

The main relay DOESNT always set a CEL.

The ecu doesnt read the pump relay output signal,nor does it read the status of the contacts of the pump relay component of the main relay.So if that relay fails or the associated solder joints go dry,then no CEL.

If the ignition relay component of the main relay goes down ,then sure,with no power to the ecu,injectors & IACV, the CEL is gonna be shining bright.

Main relay failure while driving is a rare occurence as well,as the elec contacts dont like to be broken once they are made & the solder joints,once the pins,PCB & solder are at a stable temperature,will usually settle into place & the current flow across the bad joint wont want to stop ,by nature.
The failure usually occurs when the contacts are cooling down & the dry joint in the solder compounds as the components are cooling at different rates.

However,your right it can happen while driving,just more not than often.

[integrity]

correct ... check the main relays ... if all are good my best advice would be to go to honda or a auto electrician ... they can feed a cable to your ECU and itll tell them exactly which circuit/cable etc is failing ... if its not electronic theyll let you know right away ...
costs roughly 150 bux to do it ... but its worth it if thats whats happening

[remi1au]

Thanx CRXer... does this code check have to be done imediately after an engine cutout event ? ie on the side of the road.
Or does the fault code remain in the ECU even after a restart?
Still got to find the ECU first... not sure if I'm obd0 ro obd1....

[CRXer]

Good chance the car is OBD1,so go with the ECU check posted above.

The ecu is located where your passenger would rest there feet against the fire wall(Im fairly sure for an LS),pull back the carpet & u will see a cover plate,if there is a little hole through the centre of the cover plate,then the car is OBD0 & u need to read the codes from the LED that will flash thru this hole,instead of reading the check engine light on the cluster.

If OBD0-simply turn key to ignition(position 2) & see if the LED flashes thru the hole.

If OBD1-short out SCS connector(as shown in that thread),turn key to ignition & watch check engine light on cluster for flashes.

Reset ECU after.

[vtegra]

string... well it was the distributor and it made all those signs as these problems, and it use to do it bout 6 times a day as well. i ended up takin it to an auto elect. i just dont think its the problems ur saying.

[string]

Obviously there is going to be symptons which belong to multiple causes, all i'm saying is try the main fuel relay first. $10 vs $250+ for a distributor, I know which one i'll choose...

[Edgeauto]

Never heard of the main relay bringing on the engine light before. To bad ur not in adelaide i've got a spare distribotor about the place somewhere.

[vtegra]

thankyouuuu, some1 is backing me up

[remi1au]

ive had the same problem, where it cut out when ever it wanted.
it was the distributor, so mayb check urs out.

When you say "it was the distributor", what specifically in the distributor was the problem ?... igniter, coil ?

[remi1au]

Ok guys... I have'nt resoldered my main relay yet, perhaps I dont need to.
I uncovered my ECU (established that I am obd0), switched ignition to on and the ECU is flashing code 15, ie one long flash folled by 5 short flashes.
This is apparently "Ignition Output Signal", not being familiar with ignition systems in general, what is this likely to be pointing to ? Or could it still be many things including the main relay ?

[Edgeauto]

Proberly igniter(ICM)Make sure all the teminals inside the distributor are tight and clean.Also check and see what brand it is, if it is a OKI is probably stuffed.

[remi1au]

Thanks Edgeauto, I'll do that.
Have spoken over the phone to an auto electrician, he said it was more likely the coil ($450 plus labour... ouch), but maybe he was just going for maximum payout...
The car is definately getting harder to start after an "episode"...dont know if this means anything...

[Edgeauto]

Could be a coil but doesn't normally bring the engine light on. To check the coil yourself, measure the resistance, between the 2 little terminals there should be about 1.2ohms and between a small terminal and the big 1(where it contacts with the cap) there should be about 10-12Kohms.BTW genuine coils aren't even that much.

[CRXer]

If it is the ignitor & u keep driving it & the ignitor fails in the "ON" position,u will more than likely melt the coil as well as it remains charged with the ignition key left on.

so moral is,get fixed asap.

[remi1au]

Taking it to an auto electrician on monday.... basicaly just picked the closest one to me, hope they are not ripoff merchants....

[vtegra]

na they shouldnt realy charge u that much to replace a distributor, but get him to test it out n he will b able to see if sumthin fails in it, but its too hard to find out which bit of it is the problem sometimes, so if it stuffed up, get him to replace it.

[remi1au]

na they shouldnt realy charge u that much to replace a distributor, but get him to test it out n he will b able to see if sumthin fails in it, but its too hard to find out which bit of it is the problem sometimes, so if it stuffed up, get him to replace it.

We will see, rang local Honda dealer and they quoted me about $180 for new coil and $150 for new igniter, so I think my sparky was a bit off the mark when he thought a Honda coil was about $400.
Car has been with him all day today and typicaly it has not cut out once !

[vtegra]

yeh that happened to me as well, what he needs to do is test it with his things whatever it is. to see if its not up to its standards,

[remi1au]

The car is back fom the sparky.... so far so good (touch wood).
He had the car for 4 days and replaced both the coil and the ignigter ?
Total damage $335... if the car is fixed, it is money well spent.
Fingers crossed hey...