Intercooler question

[Zdster]

So I was browsing through ebay and came across his civic for sale - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-honda-civic-hatchback-type-r-turbo_W0QQitemZ200038378474QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6256 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. It is boosted which is cool, but it appears that the entire front support/reinforcement has been cut out to fit the intercooler. I cant imagine that this is:

Legal
Be healthy for the car (increase chassis twist etc)What is everyone elses thoughts? Also, if it were ever to be in a head on accident what would happen? The intercooler just push out of the way? Destroy the engine?

[saxman]

I don't know about legality issues, but I can offer this for your other half of the question...

for the del sol, the jdm and european vehicles do not have the front bumper bar. The del sol here in the states, however, does. The cars that don't have it don't show any significant issues with chassis twist, etc, and it obviously wasn't a huge enough deal to the car for honda to deem it necessary.

With that said, I'd much rather leave in in place and use an intercooler that's better suited to the frontal area already available.



on a side note, anyone that puts SSAutochrome turbo parts on their car should be consider completely stupid regarding all things automotive, and should be avoided as a source of how to do things...

in other words, avoid anything they've done to that car

[Slow96GSR]

Yes the actual part he cut into is just the bumper. The radiator support is the chassis support for the front end. There is nothing structurally unsound there except for when you smash in that front end. It's something easy to replace as it is held on with 4 bolts. Just get a good I.C. that fits the way it should. Beside unless the bumper has a hole up that high the top half of that I.C. is doing nothing!!

[chunky]

ive seen numerous cars driving around like this but never seen them booked

[poid]

i wouldnt cut the bumper support, its a great excuse for an insurance company not to pay if you damage the front of the car as well as the cops booking you if they realise what you've done.

[Weq]

No need to run an overrized intercooler. cutting the bumper support is not only illegal, but stupid and a waste of time. It totally ****s up all the impact zones and u can say 'writeoff' to even the smallest of frontend collisions.

I run a small cooler, and even with a GT2871R at 20psi, the IAT dont rise much or heat soak.

[Zdster]

Makes you wonder why they actually went to the extent of cutting the bumper. Is it just so that you can show off a big front mount?


Yes the actual part he cut into is just the bumper. The radiator support is the chassis support for the front end. There is nothing structurally unsound there except for when you smash in that front end.

Very interesting.

I have been reading about intercoolers (as I am a relative novice at both this and FI) and have another question. What is the purpose of the radiator if you install an intercooler? Arnt they both essentially doing the same thing (cooling incoming air and flowing it into the cylinders)?

[destrukshn]

er.. becuase the radiator is for your coolant?

[Zdster]

er.. becuase the radiator is for your coolant?

But isnt the (compressed) air in the intercooler system achieving a similar effect as the coolant/fluid (ie reducing the block and/or cylinder temperature as it is cooler)?

[saxman]

But isnt the (compressed) air in the intercooler system achieving a similar effect as the coolant/fluid (ie reducing the block and/or cylinder temperature as it is cooler)?
not really... all an intercooler is doing is trying to reduce the temp of the air from it being heated by the turbo.

Air goes into the turbo, and the intercooler brings the temp down a bit closer to where it started(still hotter than it started though).

It does this to allow a denser charger and to reduce intake temperatures to reduce detonation, not to cool the motor.


Think of it this way... the air going into the motor on an n/a vehicle is cooler than on a turbo after the intercooler, and you still need a radiator on an n/a car

[Zdster]

not really... all an intercooler is doing is trying to reduce the temp of the air from it being heated by the turbo.

Air goes into the turbo, and the intercooler brings the temp down a bit closer to where it started(still hotter than it started though).

It does this to allow a denser charger and to reduce intake temperatures to reduce detonation, not to cool the motor.


Think of it this way... the air going into the motor on an n/a vehicle is cooler than on a turbo after the intercooler, and you still need a radiator on an n/a car

Oh now I get it (I think). You have two seperate systems then:

You have the intercooler whose air is cooled from the extra heat added in the compression within the turbo; and
You have the radiator where coolant is used to reduce extra heat created by the block/cylindersSo if both the intercooler and the radiator are trying to reduce heat, couldnt you add extra plumbing to the intercooler to somehow replace the role of the radiator and cool the block at the same time? or is the air temperature of the intercooled air still much higher than radiator coolant?

[poid]

The intake air is much cooler than the coolant flowing through the engine. You dont want the coolant flowing around the intercooler because it would increase the heat in the intercooler and reduce its effectiveness in cooling the intake air (in fact it would prolly become an interheater and heat the intake charge).

You want to keep the two cooling systems separate, because they are removing heat from two different mediums operating at very different temperatures.

[saxman]

as poid said... basically they're very different cooling systems for very different purposes. Water isn't the best means of cooling charge air, and air isn't the best means of cooling the coolant.

[Zdster]

Thanks guys. Finally got through my thick head :D. Plus pq points all around.

One last thing though. Would having such a large intercooler in the front (like in the first link) effect the amount of cold air that would reach the radiator and if so how dramatically would it alter engine performance?

[poid]

in theory it will have an effect, but in reality unless you are making a LOT of power (and therefore generating a lot of heat) its not going to cause any issues. The intercooler works by allowing airflow so most of the air will still get through and wont be too much warmer.

[superR]

my cooler is pretty damn big and i managed to fit it with some "customised" brackets with out cutting the bar accross the front and or the bumper bar.