Skid around corner.

[^__^ SM ^__^]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to test the Euro's VSA and took a right corner at 60km/h+ tonight (no traffic was around), the tyre lost traction and made a screeching noise. I didn't lose control but understeered.

My question is does this sort of driving damage the drivetrain/chasis in anyway?

Thank you in advance.

[EuroDude]

Well not really unless there was alot of force entering the drivetrain or chassis, for instance if you hit the curb whilst skidding.

But if it was just a small screech, there shouldnt really be anything to worry about. The euro's chassis is actually very stable, and honda drivetrains are amongst the best in the world.

Just ask for a wheel alignment when you get new tyres ;)

[Muzz]

if there was no impact with curbing or anything (your tyre lost traction nothing else) u got nothing at all to worry about. Dont worry about an alignment, slight understeering definatly wont change the alignment. your drivetrain will also be completly fine.

[Muzz]

your car can handle this abuse no probs, its tough!

[Slugoid]

Did you feel the body roll and huge weight transfer?? :p

I use to do that all the time when the Euro was my only car. Only thing that would damage is your tyres. Don't think drivetrain will suffer much unless you're ripping front doughies when exiting the corner, haha!

[^__^ SM ^__^]

Thanks very much for your reassurance. Feel much better now. :)

[aaronng]

Be careful that you don't go into oncoming traffic around the corner. The street is not a safe place to do this. It's better if you could use a large open air carpark.

btw... Did you experience snap-oversteer when VSA activated?

[^__^ SM ^__^]

Hi Aaron. No oversteer. I was actually too freaked out when it screeched to remember. I won't be doing that again.

[EuroDude]

You dont have the stock Dunlop SP2050 tyres on the car do you?

ergh they were so crap, dodgy grip and not confident in the wet.
Ive upgraded to 17" yoko C-Drives, quite an improvement...

[tanalasta]

*grins* you took a right hand corner at only 60km/h???

If you have driven your car for a while and know it's limits, then I should add the following pointers:
1. FWD cars naturally understeer.
2. VSA only detects wheel slip in Australian models on the front wheels. Hence if you take a sharp corner and your rear tyres lose traction slightly around the corner, that's normal.
3. Please don't hit a curb doing this (or hit something period) as then it could damage your chasis/suspension/wheels. Best place to try this sort of driving is on a track.
4. I have 17" Bridgestone REO40's which are slightly better than the 16" dunlop OEM's.
5. The Euro has one of the better lateral grip and cornering chasis's on a non-sport orientated vehicle. It won't corner like a Porsche but it corners better than most.
6. Once you REALLY know what you're doing, turn off VSA. VSA also limits the accelleration gain on the pedal during a corner. Once you learn how to judge a corner and optimise your entry/exit speeds (or really accelerate around a corner), you'll take it faster that way.
7. Don't ever do it in the wet unless you're on a track or you don't mind paying the excess on your insurance policy. ;)

It's heaps of fun taking corners at fast speeds near your car's limit within common sense constraints. But know what you're doing first ... too many young hoons out there who misjudge and cause damage or danger to others/themselves.

And remember at $300 each, tyres ain't cheap.

[xiang]

i got the back end out once..
took a slight corner rather quick, then half way through the corner i let go of the accelerator and the back slipped out.

youtube can teach you so much.

[Muzz]

yeah that good ol' lift off oversteer:thumbsup:

[xiang]

i got scared.. and wee'd a little.

KIDDINGGGGGGGGGGG...

[^__^ SM ^__^]

hmmm... i guess i wont be trying anymore until i get rid of those 2050Ms :p

[Suntzu]

MY 05 euro is VERY stable. I have had the VSA correct a few slides very effectively.

In a recent wheels handling olympics test the Euro was ranked very high for lateral stability and WAY better than the Liberty GT AWD on the skidpan.

I think cause the car is so refined you can miss how good it handles.

Ive got 18x7 on my car so its very grippy. However it can get very nasty in the wet if you get silly as the understeer will bite you on the arse if you get too quick through a roundabout.

[6MT]

Talking about understeer at roundabout, I experience this every time I go around (a particular) double lane round about when the road is wet.

One wet morning I drove to this round about with speed only around 30km/hr. Surprisingly, my euro understeered heavily at mid bend and snap to a sudden oversteer :o (not sure if the VSA lighted up at this point). Luckily, there was no other car next to me in this double lane roundabout, as I have taken both :(

My query is if this is normal, have you guys experienced this before? Or is it just my car? If it is, should I replace tyres or adjust alignment do u think?

As I never experience this in my other car (stock prelude with shity tyres) during similar driving & condition

[EuroDude]

Similar thing happened to me in the rain, but I had worn tyres. Havent had a problem with unworn tyres. VSA 'snapped' the car back into the proper direction :thumbsup:

[6MT]

Yeah, noticed cars behind me took a good long distance after this happened :p

I find VSA respond is too snappy, and a bit embarrassing as this understeer happens at a low speed (to a car known for its good handling) …:o
any suggestion on what mod or adjustment to best minimize this? is it rear sway bar?

[aaronng]

Talking about understeer at roundabout, I experience this every time I go around (a particular) double lane round about when the road is wet.
Can't beat physics. Even with VSA.



One wet morning I drove to this round about with speed only around 30km/hr. Surprisingly, my euro understeered heavily at mid bend and snap to a sudden oversteer :o (not sure if the VSA lighted up at this point). Luckily, there was no other car next to me in this double lane roundabout, as I have taken both :(
I have experienced that as well. VSA uses the ABS system to engage the brakes, so when it does work, the brakes will be braking at almost full force for that split second. Plus, you have all your weight at the front of the car during braking because of weight transfer, so any change will cause the light rear to swing around.



My query is if this is normal, have you guys experienced this before? Or is it just my car? If it is, should I replace tyres or adjust alignment do u think?

As I never experience this in my other car (stock prelude with shity tyres) during similar driving & condition
That's because your prelude doesn't have VSA. I just turn my VSA off all the time. More predictable for me.

[6MT]

Thanks Aaronng for your info :thumbsup:
next time I try to off my VSA while driving intown (& wet) & see how it goes :)

[aaronng]

Thanks Aaronng for your info :thumbsup:
next time I try to off my VSA while driving intown (& wet) & see how it goes :)

30km/h is too fast for a wet roundabout (depending on the size too). Without VSA, you'd just plough straight and hit your wheel on the kerb. So brake more. 30km/h is too fast for the tyres you have. What tyres btw?

[6MT]

very normal tyre i’m afraid …goodyear eagle LS…w/ stock size :(
not too sure exact radius of the roundabout, but it’s a double lane round about so it’s got quite a big radius

and it’s kinda sloping down at the outer edge of the round about, so this doesn’t help cornering either….

Btw, I always use engine break during mid-corner, this makes front tyres slower and promote understeer I suppose? :p

I heard it’s best to brake approaching a corner, u mean it’s ok to break more during corner when realised we’re carrying too much speed?

[badthing]

That's because your prelude doesn't have VSA. I just turn my VSA off all the time. More predictable for me.

I do the same as I don't like surprises. Do you have VSA off in the wet as well?

[aaronng]

very normal tyre i’m afraid …goodyear eagle LS…w/ stock size :(
not too sure exact radius of the roundabout, but it’s a double lane round about so it’s got quite a big radius

and it’s kinda sloping down at the outer edge of the round about, so this doesn’t help cornering either….

Btw, I always use engine break during mid-corner, this makes front tyres slower and promote understeer I suppose? :p

I heard it’s best to brake approaching a corner, u mean it’s ok to break more during corner when realised we’re carrying too much speed?
Get better tyres. Bridgestone RE001 adrenalins are pretty reasonably priced.

You are understeering because you are overspeeding into the roundabout. It may be only 30km/h, but that is still to quick for your tyres. Brake before the corner, or trail brake if you like.

[aaronng]

I do the same as I don't like surprises. Do you have VSA off in the wet as well?

Off all the time. But you have to get used to using your accelerator more and not just keep it at one position through the corner.

[6MT]

Get better tyres. Bridgestone RE001 adrenalins are pretty reasonably priced

Ok, will look into it when it's time for tyre replacement,
mean time I'll just be more gentle with the gas :) ... Thanks

[tron07]

Talking about understeer at roundabout, I experience this every time I go around (a particular) double lane round about when the road is wet.

One wet morning I drove to this round about with speed only around 30km/hr. Surprisingly, my euro understeered heavily at mid bend and snap to a sudden oversteer :o (not sure if the VSA lighted up at this point). Luckily, there was no other car next to me in this double lane roundabout, as I have taken both :(

My query is if this is normal, have you guys experienced this before? Or is it just my car? If it is, should I replace tyres or adjust alignment do u think?

As I never experience this in my other car (stock prelude with shity tyres) during similar driving & condition


How are the condition of your tires, the front vs the back tires?

[tron07]

Watch this...
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care...artire-change/

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85011

[hooyn]

this may happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tZlCx9VYkI

[6MT]

How are the condition of your tires, the front vs the back tires?

my front and back tyres are equally good ...almost like new

[EUR003act]

*grins* you took a right hand corner at only 60km/h???

If you have driven your car for a while and know it's limits, then I should add the following pointers:
1. FWD cars naturally understeer.
2. VSA only detects wheel slip in Australian models on the front wheels. Hence if you take a sharp corner and your rear tyres lose traction slightly around the corner, that's normal.
3. Please don't hit a curb doing this (or hit something period) as then it could damage your chasis/suspension/wheels. Best place to try this sort of driving is on a track.
4. I have 17" Bridgestone REO40's which are slightly better than the 16" dunlop OEM's.
5. The Euro has one of the better lateral grip and cornering chasis's on a non-sport orientated vehicle. It won't corner like a Porsche but it corners better than most.
6. Once you REALLY know what you're doing, turn off VSA. VSA also limits the accelleration gain on the pedal during a corner. Once you learn how to judge a corner and optimise your entry/exit speeds (or really accelerate around a corner), you'll take it faster that way.
7. Don't ever do it in the wet unless you're on a track or you don't mind paying the excess on your insurance policy. ;)

It's heaps of fun taking corners at fast speeds near your car's limit within common sense constraints. But know what you're doing first ... too many young hoons out there who misjudge and cause damage or danger to others/themselves.

And remember at $300 each, tyres ain't cheap.

honda doesnt have different VSA models for different countries..? all honda VSA is made up of 4x wheel hall effect sensors (the same sensors that are used to detect wheel speed for 4ch ABS), steering sensor, and yaw rate sensor...

[aaronng]

Accord Euro has only front 2 wheel sensors, this was back in 2004. They might have put 4 wheel sensors in 2006, but I have no idea if they did or not.

[EUR003act]

Accord Euro has only front 2 wheel sensors, this was back in 2004. They might have put 4 wheel sensors in 2006, but I have no idea if they did or not.

its four channel ABS tho... therefore, they need sensors in all four wheels...

[aaronng]

its four channel ABS tho... therefore, they need sensors in all four wheels...

There was some tech paper on the Accord, comparing the differences between the TSX and the European Accord, and this was found to be one of the differences. Doesn't the ABS sensor detect only wheel lock-up? Does it actually measure wheel rpm?

[FAT VTI]

Yea, i had to test the limitations of my cd5.

I test it before i do any modifications which could influence the cars movement.
e.g. I tested it before changing my stock suspension to tein coilovers, the difference is brilliant haha. The car had a bit of body roll, but far easier to handle than stock suspension.
i also tested before replacing my brake pads, I went round the corner, and tried to see if i could get the car to slide out a little before and after i changed the pads (without locking up abs). It was in an industrial area, in the early hours. I do not endorse this activity at all, however I do feel people should know the limitations of their car, it will help you when driving in shitty conditions. I have friends with corollas who think wet roads have no affect on them turning corners and hitting the accelerator as much as they can.
I know ppl will get on here and start abusing me for trying this on the roads, but it was in a good area, far from any cars or people.

[Bo0o0ost]

Have done this but in a turn at about 60ks,
Understeered a touch and traction control kicked up but apart from that your drivetrain or chassis will not experience problems later on for a menuver like that

[EUR003act]

There was some tech paper on the Accord, comparing the differences between the TSX and the European Accord, and this was found to be one of the differences. Doesn't the ABS sensor detect only wheel lock-up? Does it actually measure wheel rpm?

the only way i can think that the ABS would use would be a hall effect sensor (magnet on the shaft/wheel that spins past a coil giving an electric pulse per rotation).... im not aware of other methods of detecting wheel lock? know you got me second guessing myself lol ill try find out :)

[Omotesando]

I find that in the dry, the VSA doesn't really kick in until its highly provoked. I've had instances where I'm understeering during a corner (accelerator off, or after apex, powering on again), and the Euro has understeered too much to be dangerous enough, but without activating the VSA.

In the wet, it doesn't take as much to activate the VSA! Its definitely better than human reflexes.