WOE is me, whiteline swaybar and ripped subframe

[mimps]

was getting worried for the last few weeks, with funny noises from the rear
read a few threads last night and figured it's probably the waybar hitting the lca....

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3360&stc=1&d=1163381723

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3361&stc=1&d=1163381723

sorry don't know how to attach files...

sway bar hitting exhaust because right subframe has been ripped out.
soooo SAAADDD!!!!!!!

[ekhybrid]

damn thats bad luck
wat size was your sway bar?

[mimps]

whiteline 22mm?? it's one up from stock
i've never tracked it, this is my daily driver.

[xtercii]

you didn't use any reinforcement?

[Perry]

thats what I was thinking aswell dont think he did

[Mr_will]

lol stock mounting brackets ftw.

what did you do with the mounting plates that came with your swaybar?

they attach to the lca bolt, and 2 points on the subframe to avoid things like this :)

[mimps]

Until yesterday (after reading in forum) I had no idea there was such a problem.

I didn't instal it, had it done at a shop.

[Perry]

at the whiteline shop?

[bennjamin]

Its bad luck BUT it makes sense. Honda designed the subframe with the STOCK size swaybar in mind...anything thicker will prematurely tear it out.

Speak to the guys at www.whiteline.com.au and see if there is anything they can do.

[ginganggooly]

did you buy the swaybars as new from whiteline?
or used?

the new ones all bundle with the mounting brackets afaik.

I had subframe tearout with my swaybar about 4 years ago, but that was apparently before whiteline knew about the weakness... i remember i was the first car to run around with their swaybar/tiebar combo.
if you bought it new from whiteline, deffinately contact them and see if they'll help you out with repairs.

[mimps]

I had it done all new from whiteline dealer
I'll be heading down to see them tomorrow
will keep you guys posted.
off to work now.

thanks for the info.

[Zdster]

As everyone else has stated, it should have come with a mounting bracket like this:
http://undergroundimports.com.au/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1010010%7E10.JPG

It sits right where the tearout occured. I would take the car back and demand they pay the costs to fix it as you are now up for an entire new rear subframe (which isnt cheap) plus welding the new piece in.

[A.G.System]

i had the same problem with my old CXI EK1.

22mm bar ripped right through. AND that WAS using the whiteline supplied bracket.

There was a thread on here a while ago that was about a heavy duty swaybar support that you may be able to attach and then weld the sub frame too for reinforcement. Just make sure that you use a GOOD welder otherwise they will create more bad than good.

Other thing to remember is to use GOOD bolts and washers.

The ones that come with the whiteline aren't exactly heavy duty and will tear out or rattle free VERY quickly.

[mrwillz]

wow even wif a reincforcement braket huh

[Mr_will]

Other thing to remember is to use GOOD bolts and washers.

The ones that come with the whiteline aren't exactly heavy duty and will tear out or rattle free VERY quickly.


i would rather break the bolts than the subframe, how about you?

[barefootbonzai]

shit you wouldn't think that it would actually happen so easily. I feel much better now about wasting a shit load on an ASR Reinforcement.

[muhhan]

Let me get this straight. If you use a lower tie bar with the reinforced bracket from Whiteline all will be good?

All this talk about subframe tearing has got me paranoid now!

[A.G.System]

wow even wif a reincforcement braket huh

Yeah the whiteline bracket that they gave me cracked on the LCA bolt and had a little play in it.

Basically if you have a choice between a solid bracket or something that is tack welded together with plates and posts. ALWAYS go the solid bracket. It may weigh a little more but its just something else that wont break.

As for the bolts rattling out THAT was the reason the sub frame tore as bad as it did on my car. The loose bolt acted like a hacksaw and cut into the bolt hole and caused the crack to worsen.

Also the non nyloc nuts are just asking for trouble. even just replacing the nuts with nyloc ones gives you a little more piece of mind.

[Limbo]

Woo i guess putting silicone on the end of my bolts to stopp them coming loose was not just me being paranoid!

I better check on mine also now.

[bennjamin]

ive already brought up the idea of WHY some companies use LESS than OEM strength replacement bolts on MORE than OEM pressure parts(ie the stress a larger swaybar puts on a standard subframe etc)....its asking for trouble ( i have broken 1 bolt and tore out old subframe too)

but tis to no avail. for piece of mind Its best to spend up big and get one of those ASR kits or just leave it stock lol

[egSi]

'heavy duty in the house'

[bennjamin]

'heavy duty in the house'

dont accept any less than +10 tensile strenght when it comes to sussy bolts , people :thumbsup:

[gelo]

ASR ftw

[bigjo5]

reminder to readers that the reinforcement kit is not 100% to protect ur subfram from ripping apart, so beaware

[Chi]

dont accept any less than +10 tensile strenght when it comes to sussy bolts , people :thumbsup:


lol.

I agree with ben on this from experience

God damn bolt snapped inside the hole (god damn wyn)

[ian]

and this time when you get the sway bar put back on, make sure it's the right way round (otherwise it will definitely rattle and hit your exhaust pipe).

i've experienced this with my ex civic vtir coupe.

[mimps]

NEWS!!!
the shop has agreed to repair the subframe tear out at no cost.:thumbsup:

The kit did not come with the heavy duty bracket and brace as standard,
and they were unaware of the problem (hence the stock bracket was used)
I'm going to order the ASR brace.

my car feels like sloppy p00 without the swaybar

BY THE WAY, the whiteline swaybar was only 18mm!!!
(stock is 16mm)

[bennjamin]

good to hear. I had a 18mm "upgrade" bar from whiteline (using hte stock mounts too) and it tore out the U clip...luckily not the subframe.

[Zdster]

Glad they are fixing it for you.

I am surprised hearing that even the 18mm can do that much damage. With the U clips did they also supply reinforcement from the back as well?

[jdm_kid]

how much was the damage ?

[destrukshn]

how much is the asr re-o kit?

[jdm_kid]

how much is the asr re-o kit?

abouut $250 excluding shipping from the states, ask Yonas, he will know :)

[Zdster]

abouut $250 excluding shipping from the states, ask Yonas, he will know :)

If you are talking without the/a sway and in US dollars then you are getting close.

[jdm_kid]

If you are talking without the/a sway and in US dollars then you are getting close.

$179.99 US --> $243.23 AU (ASR Subframe Reinforcement Brace, EG civic)

[Zdster]

$179.99 US --> $243.23 AU (ASR Subframe Reinforcement Brace, EG civic)

Thanks for correcting me - you are right. Was thinking of something else.

[A.G.System]

What this basically balls down to is that Whiteline NEEDS to have a look et their mounting on these bars and maybe do a re design.

Always said if there was a flat plate on the back side of the bolts that was like a giant washer with 2 holes that line up with the mounting holes to give that little bit of extra support it would mean that the bolts couldn't chew the actual metal of the sub frame.

We wait and see what Whiteline do as this is getting to become far to common a problem.

[Limbo]

i would never have though the sub-frame was so weak that it would tear under a 18mm swaybar.

My old corolla had a 18mm rear sway and it just used the original mounts and it was fine for years until i sold it.

So where do i get these extra rear support from?

Anyone got a pic of one on so i know what it looks like?

[A.G.System]

yeah hondas and corollas have a different way the swaybar works.

there was a thread here a while ago should be able to track one down with a quick search.

[iced]

damn.
this has been some problem with the EK.
its poor that honda used mounts on the subframe.

ive got a mirage (auspec no rear sway factory). My v2 whiteline mounting bracket for rear swaybar is same as the Cyborg. it bolts to the rear chassis rails on both sides. nothing mounts to the subframe. the first version whiteline like the civic one was shit. Whiteline didnt know of the chassis mounting and supplied a kit that required holes drilled into the centre region of the subframe (where the civic EKs is free from any reinforcement the Mirage still has metal).
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picturedsf0105oi.jpg

i think the current version of the Civic EK rear swaybar can come with the heavy duty mounting plate as well as a tie bar which makes it more rigid distributes the load better. its really stupid though how the stock mounting is so close to the edge.

if you can definately go the ASR kit. you need to strengthen the f**k out of it to hold the abuse of hard cornering.
not sure how the shop is going to fix it but will be as strong as the original sheet metal (:eek:)

i hope it all works out well

[kayot1k]

lol at subframe

[zco]

$179.99 US --> $243.23 AU (ASR Subframe Reinforcement Brace, EG civic)

then ad 45.00US for shipping and you haev yourself over 300+

[ekslut]

how much is the asr re-o kit?

Mine cost me $258us delivered to aus which was about $350au at the time (about a year & a bit ago)

[TEGNO1]

Hi i just bought the ASR kit for my DA integra should arrive in 2 weeks will let you know how it goes with photos when i get it on. Awsome peace of kit too bad it cost me $833 including brace and 32mm hollow swaybar, but it was the only way to get a strong and large enough set-up that i wanted.Check out their website http://asrparts.com/. a picture of the kit already on.

[jdm_kid]

32mm OHMYGOT ! lol

[Mr_will]

32mm OHMYGOT ! lol


dont forget its hollow...

[Zdster]

dont forget its hollow...

Plus it is also not on a civic (I would have thought it would be different on different chassis).

[A.G.System]

Even so thats still a friggin hefty bar to stick on the back of a honda if you arent racing.

The biggest sway bar isn't always the best for your car.
You may find that some cars handle better with an 18mm where others feel sloppy.

Instead of going the full race bar you may want to look at other braces first to stiffen the rest of your chassis.

[bennjamin]

dont forget its hollow...

exactly. the only advantage in hollw swaybars is the cost factor and for the same weight (hollow vs smaller diameter solid of same weight) it will be stiffer.

refer to this - http://www.theherd.com/articles/swaybar.html

[uetecu]

NEWS!!!
the shop has agreed to repair the subframe tear out at no cost.:thumbsup:

The kit did not come with the heavy duty bracket and brace as standard,
and they were unaware of the problem (hence the stock bracket was used)
I'm going to order the ASR brace.

my car feels like sloppy p00 without the swaybar

BY THE WAY, the whiteline swaybar was only 18mm!!!
(stock is 16mm)

It's great to hear some businesses out there admit to their wrongdoing and will repair for free.

If your going to run the ASR reo kit are you considering in upgrading to a thicker bar? :p

[TEGNO1]

Thanks for that link Benjamin, ive been looking everywhere for that info, and i did some calculations and if the bars are equall in all other areas, the asr 32mm / 2.5mm bar would be 126% stiffer than an integra type r 22mm bar, probably equaivalent to a 26mm solid,(correct me if im wrong) and dont forget the ASR kit has adjustable arms. When fitting a rear swaybar it makes a huuuuuuuge difference to handling and with the hondas being weak in that area the only option is to strenghen the subframe, the asr kit isnt the only option as there are kits from whiteline and other manufacturers much cheaper, but not for the DA's. The only options for me were to buy an 18mm and risk it, adapt a dc2 brace kit with 22mm bar or the asr kit, all i can say is please strengthen the subrame and you will not believe the difference a bigger rear sway will make to a front wheel drive car.later.

[BlitZ]

you subframe costs about $1200 to repair .. heheeh

they repair it next door to whitelines ahahah..

dont ask me how i know.. hehehehe

Backyard DIY ASR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/civic168/DSCF1523.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/civic168/DSCF1590.jpg

[TEGNO1]

You made me laugh.....(poor whitline) at least now we know what where in for in costs if we put a larger rear swaybar on without srenghening the subframe.What size swaybar did you use on the backyard kit.

[BlitZ]

You made me laugh.....(poor whitline) at least now we know what where in for in costs if we put a larger rear swaybar on without srenghening the subframe.What size swaybar did you use on the backyard kit.

22 ITR item...

its backyard.. but it works exactly the same as ASR:thumbsup:

[.::F[L]Y::.]

shit. i just ordered my sway bar as well. what other alternatives are there apart from gettn ASR?

if the whiteline kit has all the fittings and plates supplied it should be fine correct?

[TEGNO1]

Top job its good that you thought ahead and saved some money too. Hows the 22mm rear must drive like a different car with that on right.(what you using for the front hows the handling...nuetral over/understeer. Hope someone who's used the whiteline kit can provide some feedback for you FLY.

[BlitZ]

Y::.']shit. i just ordered my sway bar as well. what other alternatives are there apart from gettn ASR?

if the whiteline kit has all the fittings and plates supplied it should be fine correct?

The whiteline stuff is ok for DC.. just not EK ...

DC only experiences plucking when ripped out the whiteline one is fine..:thumbsup:

[BlitZ]

Top job its good that you thought ahead and saved some money too. Hows the 22mm rear must drive like a different car with that on right.(what you using for the front hows the handling...nuetral over/understeer. Hope someone who's used the whiteline kit can provide some feedback for you FLY.

feels better.. but track time wise.. i didnt see much difference from std to 22mm

[.::F[L]Y::.]

allgood. will be installing mine after my exams :)

[EK4R]

this wont happen if i just install a ek9 sway onto the stock ek4 right??? or will i need reinforcement too...

btw wats the different with ek9 vs ek4. dont think it will make a huge difference?

[TEGNO1]

Dont forget you dont have to buy the 32mm hollow you can just buy the brace for $180us retail +shipping,and just use a 22mm DC2R bar, i had no option as with the DA's they only sell complete.http://search.ebay.com.au/asr-brace_W0QQflocZ1QQfromZR40QQsaslcZ2QQsbrexpZWD2SQQ ssPageNameZWD2Sthats the link to a seller on ebay dont know anyone else who supplies ASR kits. (question for blitz what spring rates and front swaybar are you using, any tips for me in setting up my car), thanks.

[BlitZ]

this wont happen if i just install a ek9 sway onto the stock ek4 right??? or will i need reinforcement too...

btw wats the different with ek9 vs ek4. dont think it will make a huge difference?

good luck mounting it..;)

they done even have the same subframe:wave:

[zco]

this wont happen if i just install a ek9 sway onto the stock ek4 right??? or will i need reinforcement too...
btw wats the different with ek9 vs ek4. dont think it will make a huge difference?

ek4 16mm vs ek9 22mm. you will need all brackets from the ek9 to fit hte ek9 bar

john. the whiteline kit is fine asl ong as you install the heavy duty mounting plates. tends to hit the exhaust if you lower it too hard. you can follow duesta's easy 20minute fix. just search for it or ask him on msn. :)

[Muzz]

shit you wouldn't think that it would actually happen so easily. I feel much better now about wasting a shit load on an ASR Reinforcement.

ditto
expensive, yet oh so much cheaper than a new subframe, worth every cent!

[EK4R]

How big is the new bar you want to put on, later.

well i mite be getting adjustable whiteline sway. so max is 22mm i believe?

[Muzz]

Y::.']shit. i just ordered my sway bar as well. what other alternatives are there apart from gettn ASR?

if the whiteline kit has all the fittings and plates supplied it should be fine correct?

wat cars this going om mate, u may run into problems like i did using a whiteline bar with the asr brace. see this thread for referance http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38433&page=5
read from the end of page onwards.

[Muzz]

if you look at the pics in the next page of that thread you will see that i removed the tubes from the whiteline bracket. let me jsut say the tack wels holding the tubes to the flat plate were shit, for the most part, they were fine, but a couple wernt fused properly to the plate and could be easily removed cleanly with a chisil by hand.

Out of the 4 tubes i removed, 2 were held on by only 1 tackweld each the other tack weld didnt actually fuse to the plate, im hoping it was only my brackets, not all of there brackets.

[Muzz]

let me also add, doing it the way ive done in that thread on page six works fine, but it pulls the bar rearwards a little to far and is not really optimal. if people want photos just ask, i cant be bothered explaining

[muhhan]

How does the ASR reinforcing plate mount onto the subframe? Are there spacer tubes on the mounting holes like on the whiteline mounting plates? What would be the result if a piece of steel was welded between the whiteline mounting plates so that it was a single piece like the ASR piece?

Also does this whole subframe tearing issue apply to an upgraded front swaybar or is it only generally the rear that has problems?

[A.G.System]

its the rear sway bar mainly

Due to the fact that people go larger than standard for the model car.
Yes i know that this can be hard with something like a CXI that has NO bars at all but then compare then to the top of the line for the STD range.

IE compare the bars to those of the VTI-R model not the Type R as that has more reinforcements due to larger amounts of torque in the engine etc.

[bennjamin]

Just to clarify guys -

ASR brace , depending on application , REQUIRES OEM ITR or CTR bars , or MUGEN bars (EG/DC)
You cannot use a whiteline swaybar on a ASR brace.

WHITELINE reinforcement can only use whiteline bars.

Choose one nad stick to it :)

[A.G.System]

This topic can go round in circles for weeks and the same questions will always get asked.

If someone can be assed can they make a How To or something so that we can just say read this?

[revNhevN]

i got quoted $429US for the ASR kit + 22mm ITR swaybar shipped to sydney. Might pick this up later. Rather pay for the ASR kit, than welding in new subframe.

[weezer]

WHITELINE reinforcement can only use whiteline bars.

Im using the whitline reinforcement kit with an ITR rear sway. You can buy the reinforcement kit on its own with D brackets to suit 18mm to 23mm sway bars

[bennjamin]

Im using the whitline reinforcement kit with an ITR rear sway. You can buy the reinforcement kit on its own with D brackets to suit 18mm to 23mm sway bars

Last time i tried , there was no way a ITR swaybar was fitting on a whiteline reinforcement kit. The whiteline bar and ITR bar "kink" in different areas , usually making them incompatible...but you have got it fitted :) Pix ?

[weezer]

hang on, you're talking about an EK? mines an EG

[bennjamin]

EG dude :)

I have whiteline reinforcement , and as described above , i couldnt get the ITR rear bar to fit. So i used the whiteline one.

[Bleh]

Other options for the rear sway instead of the ASR kit is the Comptech kit. Both are equally as good and they will help reduce the amount of tearing on the EK/EM's (except Type R) weak lower subframe. Notice how I said REDUCE, not eliminate.

Your spring rates will also determine whether or not your subframe will tear. Too soft of a spring rate and you'll risk shearing the metal off as pictured in the original post.

[mimps]

Got my car back, fixed and fitted with ASR brace, additional Omni LCAs for bling factor:p

[Muzz]

wats with ur muffler in picture one? ur exhaust seems like 2" or so, which is normal, but the exit hole of the muffler looks like its no thicker than a 1" peashooter exhaust, looks like a big restriction?
Is this one of those take out pieces so u can make it loud or quiet?
or is it just a poorly/stupidly designed muffler?
or does it somhow help the harmonics of the airflow to help power on the NA engine??
Anyone know?
Anyways looks very nice, no subframe cracking for you.

[EK4R]

^^ is that the right way up? how come whiteline writing is upside down.

[ccibai]

yeah it is the right way up.. really dunno y everytime the sticker is upside down.. my sticker came upside down also but i peel it out n stick it back the right way up :thumbsup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/ccibai/DSC00171Medium.jpg

[Muzz]

yeah mines upside down too, it confused me for a while when i was installing it. There instructions are pathetic.

[ccibai]

lol...mine 1 is even worst..found out tat 2 metal tubes were missed out from the package..

[mimps]

It's buddyclub cat back exhaust with silencer attached on the muffler (peehole)
:thumbsup:
i can't stand the noise, i initially wanted fujitsubo power getter, but my friend bought me this one for cheeeeeep.

[Muzz]

yeah thought that might be the case:thumbsup:

[TEGNO1]

Hi here is a quick pic of my brace, thats the only one i got at the moment, notice how it bolts to the chasis via heavy duty bracket instead of subframe, i will provide feedback when i get my car on the road http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/TEGNO1/Picture009.jpg

[Muzz]

Wow thats real nice man, looks real sturdy! is that the asr 32mm hollow swaybar, or did u piece the bar/arms/bushings together from a race parts supply store?

[TEGNO1]

Yeah thats the ASR kit doesnt look like $833 does it (cry), see how it performs when i get the car going, later.

[BlitZ]

looks great
where are the chasis holes drilled?

[TEGNO1]

Hi ,it uses the standard mounting spot of DA integras and early civics and crx's but with a heavy duty bracket, later.

[Muzz]

Yeah thats the ASR kit doesnt look like $833 does it (cry), see how it performs when i get the car going, later.

Yeah its a litttle expensive to get the asr kit sent over, i was looking at the asr kit till i found out the price to get it on my doorstep:eek: . Absolutly top notch qualitly ive heard though:thumbsup: . Im looking at putting somthing together along those lines from
http://www.1speedway.com/Online_Catalog.htm they sell the hollow 1.25" splined bars in various lengths, bushings, arms etc for a cheaper price.

Do you mind me asking what ur swaybar mounts are made of, and how they perform. The reason i ask is that the speedway engineering bushings are a bronze liner, cushioned by a thin layer of rubber, i believe the ASR kit uses the same style mounts? Do they require any form of lubriation, and do they make any excessive grinding noises being metal on metal? im guessing not. they offer a choice of the plain bushins as above, but also simular ones with a grease nipple which seems to push grease between the bronze lining, and the swaybar, but if there are no excessive gringing issues with the plain bushings, id probably stick to them.
Cheers

[SLOWEGG]

The kit itself without swaybar should cost around 320AU to your door. Thats the price of purchasing 3 at a time.

[Muzz]

The kit itself without swaybar should cost around 320AU to your door. Thats the price of purchasing 3 at a time.

Sorry im confused, what does that 320 buy you? The quote i got from asr was like 530US or somthing for the swaybar kit (without brace). Iv got an ek and already have an asr subframe brace. Im after a swaybar, 2 arms, 2 mounts, 2 lockcollars, 2 endlinks, which ill be getting from speedway engineering.

[riceball]

Sorry im confused, what does that 320 buy you? The quote i got from asr was like 530US or somthing for the swaybar kit (without brace). Iv got an ek and already have an asr subframe brace. Im after a swaybar, 2 arms, 2 mounts, 2 lockcollars, 2 endlinks, which ill be getting from speedway engineering.

What he got was only the mega brace thing. No endlinks, thats probably why the price is diffferent

[Muzz]

What he got was only the mega brace thing. No endlinks, thats probably why the price is diffferent

ahhhh i see, cheers for clearing that up.

[TEGNO1]

Yeah its a litttle expensive to get the asr kit sent over, i was looking at the asr kit till i found out the price to get it on my doorstep:eek: . Absolutly top notch qualitly ive heard though:thumbsup: . Im looking at putting somthing together along those lines from
http://www.1speedway.com/Online_Catalog.htm they sell the hollow 1.25" splined bars in various lengths, bushings, arms etc for a cheaper price.

Do you mind me asking what ur swaybar mounts are made of, and how they perform. The reason i ask is that the speedway engineering bushings are a bronze liner, cushioned by a thin layer of rubber, i believe the ASR kit uses the same style mounts? Do they require any form of lubriation, and do they make any excessive grinding noises being metal on metal? im guessing not. they offer a choice of the plain bushins as above, but also simular ones with a grease nipple which seems to push grease between the bronze lining, and the swaybar, but if there are no excessive gringing issues with the plain bushings, id probably stick to them.
Cheers

The swaybarbar mounts are some sort of solid bush, as far as im aware of they dont require lubrication, i let you know how the kit performs when i get the car back on the road, havnt driven it yet, i wish i could help you with the measurements as that website you provided can put together the same thing, but your car is a bit different because your bar mounts on the subframe with brace and mine mounts on the chassis with heavyduty brackets, this would mean that your arms would be shorter, if you find someone with the kit on a EK ask him to measure it all up and you can put a kit together yourself cheaper, My kit come with the bar,solid mounting brackets and bushes, aluminium arms with 4 holes to adjust stiffeness, spherical aurora links and the steel brackets which hold the bar on, i wont forget to get back to you with feedback and if you have any other questions about the kit feel free to ask, i'll also provide more pics when i get some, later.

[nigs]

Any traders on Ozhonda dealing with ASR or can bring these bracing kits in?
My car makes alot of clunking and banging from the rear, maybe it's too late T.T

[Muzz]

cheers mate, im reaaly keen to here how it performs for you.

[Newcivic]

If you want ASR brace, PM EG5 (Jdm yard)

[Muzz]

tried out the swaybar yet tegno1?

[TEGNO1]

Not yet: sent my shocks back to get shortened,
so my cars on stands at the momment,
cant wait to go wakefield when all done,
still need to do heads and cams,
getting front swaybar,
get rego,
pay for house,
lots of saving to do,
trying reaaly hard to get in on the road though,
can i hit someone up for a no payback loan, common im good for it,
sorry, i wont forget to let you know when i do, later.

[big tone]

the same thing had happend to me about 12 months ago but all i was told was i had miss used the car to cause it to tear the sway bar out. and did not help at all.. but to make things worse i had purchased a front swaybar from whitline and it would not fit properly and when i spoke to whitline they then told me that it was not fitted properly and i should change my mechanic.
i was not happy with them i then modified the sway bar and things are now good. i use 3mm steel to reinforce to the rear sway bar..

[muhhan]

Where and how did you place the 3mm steel on the rear subframe? Do you have any pics to show? I'm going to be installing mine swaybar shortly but after hearing the same problem occuring time and time again I'm getting a little paranoid about the weak subframe issue.

Cheers!

[Muzz]

Where and how did you place the 3mm steel on the rear subframe? Do you have any pics to show? I'm going to be installing mine swaybar shortly but after hearing the same problem occuring time and time again I'm getting a little paranoid about the weak subframe issue.

Cheers!

much much cheaper to prevent it than to repare it:thumbsup:

[big tone]

basically all i done was cut out 3mm steel, 40mm wide 100mm long
shaped them to fit in position then then tacked it in position.
from the fron side i used a 90degree drill and pree drilled the holes, once that was done i welded the rest of it up. spray with some stuff thats stops it from rusting. (forgot what it was called)
very rough but ive lowerd it with tein super street and rocky has real bad roads. no sighn of any stress on the weld, i did replace the nuts and bolts for something stronger and havent had a problem since.

[A.G.System]

What you are talking about is kind of like what i suggested to Whiteline a few months after my rear frame tore through.

Next time im planning on doing similar to what you are talking about but no need to weld just measure and cut .

Ii used one on back and one on front of the mount it should give a wider pressure footprint and thus reducing the stress on the bolts alone.

Theoretically should be a fix even if a little rough that could be had for:-

Steel: $5
Paint: $3
Decent Bolts and Nyloc Nuts: $8
Satisfaction knowing that YOUR Whiteline bar isnt going to kill your subframe: PRICELESS.

Ill let you know how it goes when i finally get my new car.

[Muzz]

Steel: $5
Paint: $3
Decent Bolts and Nyloc Nuts: $8
Satisfaction knowing that YOUR Whiteline bar isnt going to kill your subframe: PRICELESS.


lmao:thumbsup:

[muhhan]

Yeah, that's the thought I had last night after reading your post and doing a bit of research on the Beaks reinforcement kit.

So after adding some thickness to the subframe by using a reinforcing plate did you cut down the spacers on the back of the whiteline mounts so that the position of the swaybar wouldn't be pushed back further by the extra thickness?

AG System, that's why I haven't installed my swaybar yet, as I need to get my mitts on some new high-tensile bolts and nuts.

[Muzz]

just a thought, maby consider using regular bolts, so that they fail before the subframe does, instad of it the other way around.

[big tone]

Yeah, that's the thought I had last night after reading your post and doing a bit of research on the Beaks reinforcement kit.

So after adding some thickness to the subframe by using a reinforcing plate did you cut down the spacers on the back of the whiteline mounts so that the position of the swaybar wouldn't be pushed back further by the extra thickness?

AG System, that's why I haven't installed my swaybar yet, as I need to get my mitts on some new high-tensile bolts and nuts.

no i didnt as i found that there was small gap B4 mounting it on and when i put the plate on the gap was reduced to 10th of a mm so i didnt worry to much about it.

[big tone]

the only reason i welded it was i had just bought new welder so i wanted to try it out. perfect timing you could say.

[A.G.System]

just a thought, maby consider using regular bolts, so that they fail before the subframe does, instad of it the other way around.

Only real problem there is the bolts that Whiteline supply (WHEN they actually supply them) are crap. Usually find that they vibrate themselves apart very easily. To counter this you would have to do them up pretty damn tight thus eating into the sub frame anyhow and causing more stress.

Better off spending a few extra $$ and getting some decent bolts and washers and reducing the risk. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Muzz]

ahh i see, yeah makes alot of sence:thumbsup:

[muhhan]

AG System, when you bolted the whiteline swaybar onto your old Civic did you also put washers on either side of the subframe? So one washer between the spacer and subframe and one washer on the other side between the nut and subframe to prevent the nut from being pulled right through the mounting holes in the subframe?

At any rate I think I'll end up going down the path of what you suggested and what big tone did with putting a solid plate over the mounting holes. I believe this setup is much like the Beaks reinforcement kit. Mind you I was reading on another forum and have seen pictures of someone subframe that had a new one torn when the subframe failed with the Beaks kit. Apparently the guy was running Autocrosses and the failure occurred after several laps, but should be OK for spirited street driving.

[A.G.System]

Yeah had the chunky washers that was in the kit that i sold you on all bolts and on both sides of any frame attachment.

Reason for doing so was to allow minimum chance of the bolt themselves cutting into the frame.

Yeah as for the kits. Pretty much any sub frame will be in the same catagory its just that the EK series is kinda thin and its always better to be safe than sorry.

When the sub frame on my civic eventually tore through it wasn't noticeable at first. just some strange creaking noise. It wasn't until later that day that i noticed that the car would creak all the time when turning left. When i got out to check i noticed the bar just hanging there and the bolts with chunks of sub frame behind the washers.

Note that the damage was done before i fitted the HD washers as the whiteline kit that i originally got had NO washers at all in it. In reality i think that i was able to prevent the frame ripping for a while but when it did go eventually it went bigtime.

Father who was an engineer said that the basic structure of the whiteline kit was a good idea but it didn't really give any structural reinforcement where it was needed. thus suggested the plate idea.

Unfortunately for me it was too little too late. but at least i can pass that information on to others so the same doesn't happen to them.

[Mr_will]

all of these reinforcement plates are well and good at distributing the force across the subframe, but they dont address the actual problem of weakness where the subframe joints the chassis.

[A.G.System]

Thats where it is always handy to have a mig welder or know someone with one.

It may take some screwing around to re-enforce the frame correctly but it is well worth it.

Few extra brackets added to the frame can do wonders.

[tinkerbell]

The ones that come with the whiteline aren't exactly heavy duty and will tear out or rattle free VERY quickly.

this broad generalisation is NOT true, i suggest user error in any installation where bolts rattle free...

my whitline bar has been installed for over 30 months,

the bolts have neither torn out anything, or rattled free...

[tinkerbell]

Only real problem there is the bolts that Whiteline supply (WHEN they actually supply them) are crap. Usually find that they vibrate themselves apart very easily. To counter this you would have to do them up pretty damn tight thus eating into the sub frame anyhow and causing more stress.

Better off spending a few extra $$ and getting some decent bolts and washers and reducing the risk. Better to be safe than sorry.

why do you think the whiteline bolts are crap?

what *better* bolts would you suggest?

[bennjamin]

why do you think the whiteline bolts are crap?

what *better* bolts would you suggest?

I havent heard too much of whiteline bolts actually breaking , only the subframe under circumstances. One thing i bought up with a lead enginneer at whilteline was the complete lack of proper installation instructions ( just 2 pictures and no torque settings etc etc) this has been recently rectified from what people have said.

but Only due to the tensile rating of the bolts. They are less than honda standard , and they are under more stress with a kit like this. So amongst others I do wonder why weaker bolts have been used.It is a cost effective measure using these normal bolts IMO.
Perhaps replacing the bolts with perhaps more tensile strength will help ?

[tinkerbell]

but the bolts are same tensile rating as those used on my 2 ton engine crane?

just because the are "lower" than the Honda ones, does not mean they are not suitable...

[bennjamin]

but the bolts are same tensile rating as those used on my 2 ton engine crane?

just because the are "lower" than the Honda ones, does not mean they are not suitable...

your 2 ton engine crane dosent go thru the constant movement and torsional stress that these suspension bolts do ~ Honda designs them with limits in mind but im sure this whiteline kit Or others would be a better package with proper strength bolts.
Ive asked whiteline and the only answer they can give me is that "its good enough".

[tinkerbell]

the other thing i thought of was that i am running coil-overs with stiff springs...

when using a stiffer rear sway bar with stock springs, this could increase the risk of sub-frame tear out...

[muhhan]

That's a good point, tinkerbell, and I have heard that reasoning of having softer suspension with an extra heavy duty sway bar causing even more stress on the subframe and ultimately subframe failure. You've probably got your suspension components well balanced with each other, tinkerbell.

The other thing with the bolts is that while they may be the same as in your 2 ton engine crane, do you put your engine crane under 2 tons of force on a regular basis? The bolts on the swaybar kit, combined with unbalanced suspension components are probably pushing the mounting gear to their limits on a regular basis which leads to component failure.

Also, how does the lower tiebar help prevent subframe failure? Is it by distributing some of the forces on the mounting plates to the other side of the car so that the stress isn't all being put on one side?

[bennjamin]

the other thing i thought of was that i am running coil-overs with stiff springs...

when using a stiffer rear sway bar with stock springs, this could increase the risk of sub-frame tear out...

good point ~ ive heard also that running stock or soft springs with larger swaybars runs the same risk of ripping subframe out ~ perhaps due to the increased pivot movement of the swaybar from softer springs.

[A.G.System]

good point ~ ive heard also that running stock or soft springs with larger swaybars runs the same risk of ripping subframe out ~ perhaps due to the increased pivot movement of the swaybar from softer springs.

That is true as the stock springs do put more load on the sub frame joints where the swaybar bolts up.

Tinkerbell i notice that you are driving a DC2.. We are talking about a CIVIC and in particular the EK series. CXI's and GLI's do NOT have the structural strengthening that is required to run these bars as they do not come with ANY rear bar to start off with.

Whereas the VTI / TypeR both do. Even if they are slightly smaller in diameter.

This makes a HUGE difference.

Whiteline sell the kit as one for a civic that doesn't have a factory swaybar installed. The problem we face is that the factory car is just that FACTORY!.

If you are planning on running the car with coil overs (not factory shocks) then sure you may be able to reduce the stress on the sub frame but in a lot of cases people tend to upgrade their cars by adding the cheapest components first. aka Swaybars.

Being that these cars usually still have factory shocks and springs attached in many of the cases the bolts that are supplied by whiteline are NOT up to scratch as they are going to be under considerably more load. (If you have read the whiteline site you will notice they recommend buying an upgrade package. This is not possible for everyone.)

The bolts that i had supplied with the kit that i received (the ones that actually came) were by no means adequate for the job.
IF a car is going to be under a large amount of strain it is always best to add nyloc nuts
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/images/NYLOC_NUTS.jpg

into the equation as they allow that extra protection from the bolt rattling free. something like this
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/images/FLANGE_NUTS_WITH_NYLON_INSERT.jpg
instead of the flange nuts they supply would be better.

All that aside there was also the fact that for some reason i also recieved 12 of the Flange nuts
http://www.bolts-nuts-washers.com/images/FLANGE_NUTS.jpg
and only one of the nuts to bolt the actual bar to the LCA.

Also the lack of washers in the whiteline kit was also disturbing. i received a grand total of 3x12mm washers. Note that these washers were not shown on the original picture instructions that i received and were not the actual ones that were needed in the first place.

Now whether this was just a Quality issue at the time or some other act of God i have no idea i do know that this happened 3 times with my rear bar and twice with the front bar.

So before anyone says anything NO i do not believe that the whiteline kits are all that flash.

The Bars themselves are fine and work like they are supposed too but feel that a lot of people installing these products are backyarders and they have no idea about tensile strengths or the fact that gradual pressure on a specific point will over time weaken the structural integrity of an item. etc etc.

Also Tinkerbell you asked me also what i would recommend in terms of bolts. That is simple go to your local Universal Fasteners or some other bolt selling shop (hell even Bunnings) and ask for "Aircraft Grade Bolts". They have a higher load rating that most common bolts that you can buy, but DO cost a far bit more.

http://www.cp-components.co.uk/img/prod_img/suspen/shackle_bolts_set.jpg

Ok now i have that off my chest.

/end_rant

Summary: If you are going to install anything ALWAYS make sure that you are using top quality components and the part is designed to fit EXACTLY as was designed by the factory.

[big tone]

winner. i think ill get a cake AND eat it too.

well said A.G

[tinkerbell]

damn, i was completly ignorant of any weakness in the Civic rear subframe,

1000 apologies for assuming the subframes were the same...

that said, i think it is slightly misleading to say that ALL whiteline kits are dodgy - as the Integra one is excellent.

shame on Whiteline for providing substandard kits for Civic :mad:

[bennjamin]

damn, i was completly ignorant of any weakness in the Civic rear subframe,

1000 apologies for assuming the subframes were the same...

that said, i think it is slightly misleading to say that ALL whiteline kits are dodgy - as the Integra one is excellent.

shame on Whiteline for providing substandard kits for Civic :mad:

IMo the EK whiteline kit should reflect the EG/DC kit in design

NOTE EG civics share the same rear swaybar (Si and vti) as vtir and Gsi tegs ~ and also use the exact same upgrade from whiteline ( same part )

[tinkerbell]

so all EG's are OK, it is just the lower spec EK's subframe that are weaker?

[bennjamin]

so all EG's are OK, it is just the lower spec EK's that are weaker?

Its the design of the reinforcement that is the only different factor -
Here is the DC/EG design
http://undergroundimports.com.au/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1010010%7E10.JPG

And below is the EK design.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6030/p1010853ql4.jpg

the EK design sits very simiar to the EG/DC , but due the the lower control arm mount point , it looks as it would put a degree of more stress on the subframe during heavy cornering or pivoting action ( up a driveway etc).
IMO there needs to be something with the mount points closer together or add another mount point on the EK plate to counter act the "pivot"

[twing]

can we make a petition to whiteline, so that they will improve/give better bolts? or even make a better design.

[bennjamin]

can we make a petition to whiteline, so that they will improve/give better bolts? or even make a better design.

spoke to one of the lead engineers there ~ and stupidly criticized why the whiteline bolts are lower than OEM spec.....got a 1 hr ear brandishing (he was doing my alignment lol)

So , in numbers we can make a difference. But at what cost ?

[twing]

I know someone with 'Whiteline' nick is in this forum. He doesn't accept PM ! DOH !!! i wish i could ask him to join this discussion.

I'm thinking to get 18mm upgrade.. i guess it's safer to postpone it.

[tinkerbell]

i am still confused, is the low spec EK Civic subframe weak, or the Whiteline kit for the EK Civic inappropriate?

[Muzz]

nothing against whiteline or anything, good australian company. But i was not happy at all with the instructions. The ones for the front bar was simply a sheet with 3 pictures!

And the quality of the welds on there mounts were not good at all, i had to remove the tubes to mount the bar using my asr brace
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/Muzz87/IMG_1766.jpg
Mounting bracket for whiteline kit, and with tubes removed^^^^

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/Muzz87/IMG_1768.jpg

3 of the tackwelds were not actually fused with the plate! i started to grind the weld, and i noticed what looked like a slight crack between the weld and the flat plate. I got a chissel and just leavered it up, the plate metal hadnt melted with the actual weld! i then removed another 2 of the welds by hand with the chissel, the rest needed grinding though. im hoping it was only my mounts, maby the welder wasnt set at the correct temp for the job that day?

[Muzz]

i am still confused, is the low spec EK Civic subframe weak, or the Whiteline kit for the EK Civic inappropriate?

Both, but the whiteline mounting kit is not sufficient, people have ripped their subframes using it. Comptech and asr are the only kits ive seen out there that really brace the subframe ears sufficiently. Maby if whiteline used a single long plate instead of two seperate plates, it might change this.

up to date, i dont believe anyones had issues using the comptech and asr braces on the "low spec" ek subframe:thumbsup:

[muhhan]

Why waste your time signing a petition? You can send an even more powerful message by not buying their products.

Having said that, I'm happy with my gear which is ironically all Whiteline. I believe their products are well R&D'ed just seems that there are a few niggling problems and only on a select few vehicles. Is it Whiteline's problem or Honda's problem? In the end we are trying to put something on the car that the car wasn't designed for. To draw an analogy, you can't just go slapping a turbo on an NA engine without working it and reinforcing the other parts and expect to be just as reliable, why isn't this the same with the swaybar?

[Muzz]

Having said that, I'm happy with my gear which is ironically all Whiteline. I believe their products are well R&D'ed just seems that there are a few niggling problems and only on a select few vehicles. Is it Whiteline's problem or Honda's problem? In the end we are trying to put something on the car that the car wasn't designed for. To draw an analogy, you can't just go slapping a turbo on an NA engine without working it and reinforcing the other parts and expect to be just as reliable, why isn't this the same with the swaybar?

:thumbsup: exactly, if your subframe cant take the stresses of adding a bigger bar, its up to you to brace the subframe yourself. however it would be nice for whiteline to offer a kit which truly addresses this problem, or for them to actually let it be known to the buyer when buying the bar, on the instructions whatever, that it is an issue that can happen now and then and should really be addressed. instead of just selling you the kit without any mention that there mounts really dont offer the protection from the issue, or even that the issue exists.

IMO if there was an accident caused because somones subframe snapped and the car somhow lost control, it would be whitelines fault because they know about the problem, and they havnt made any attempts to warn the user of the issue, nor have they tried to eliminate it.

[Perry]

from my knowledge about whiteline kits for ek's, they tested it on a ek4 not ek1's but i could be wrong

[A.G.System]

from my knowledge about whiteline kits for ek's, they tested it on a ek4 not ek1's but i could be wrong

Your 1/2 right.

They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.

The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.

Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.

Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.

[bennjamin]

Your 1/2 right.

They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.

The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.

Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.

Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.

The EK1 or anything apart from the EM1/EK4 has the mounting holes , but no welded on bolts on the rear of the subframe side.
(this is the exact same for EG civics that didnt have a rear swaybar ~ breeze / Gli etc).
From this info I and others assume the EK4 subframe is exactly the same apart from this small difference....UNLESS someone can prove us wrong ?
Maybe different thickness metal ?

Also , i would not reccommend anyone use a "replacemnt" swaybar upgraded ( IE using existing mounts / reinforcement) as Honda has designed it to last with limits in mind. Putting a 18mm swaybar where a 14mm exists DOES put more stress on the subframe and will prematurely wear the subframe or mount points. I did this exactly ~ (EG5 with 14mm stock , upgraded with a 18mm replacement. Correctly installed and torqued , and after about 4 months one side of the reinforcement broke off)


I think we can forget the issue that whiteline uses lower grade bolts ~ its the subframe and mounting that needs the most attention

[Whiteline]

Hi Everyone,

We've just been made aware of this post and asked to join-in the discussion. After spending some time carefully reading the thread, we're dissapointed that people are experiencing these problems. But, we do stand behind our products and take all criticism on board and try to learn for the future.

While we sell many swaybars both locally and around the world, and our Project EK Civic car was fitted with the current generation design swaybars for many years, was raced and driven by everyone and anyone including journalists with out problems. To date we were aware of only a few cases associated with subframe cracking, and two of those were local customers which we believe to have taken care of. We have investigated each case at the time to try to find out what the actual problem is, and on balance we did not find conclusive information to point to the design of the bars. As for mounting hardware, the current specs of the replacement control arms bolts supplied with our kits are high tensile Grade 12.9.

To be on the safe side, we have decided to temporarily withdraw these swaybars from sale while we review this issue in detail, but if anyone needs new brackets, bolts, hardware, etc… or any assistance at all, please contact us direct and we’ll be happy to oblige. That includes anyone that has purchased an 18mm Whiteline swaybar and would like some heavy duty brackets to suit.

As always, we’re happy to answer any questions.

Regards,
Wojtek.

Whiteline Automotive

[A.G.System]

Glad to see that Whiteline have taken this as a serious issue and look forward to seeing that the issue can be corrected as soon as possible.

Id personally be glad to see what Whiteline creates from this discussion and hope that, even if it means creating more expensive Sub Frame reinforcement style hardware at least it will give people piece of mind.

Look forward to seeing any results in the near future

Please keep us update with pics and any information.

We will in turn gladly support the Australian built product.

[bennjamin]

excellent to see "whiteline" taking notice.

Hopefully this leads to an overhaul of the design process and
an overall increase of product quality too :)

[Muzz]

We will in turn gladly support the Australian built product.

definatly, it was a big factor with me going to whiteline for my bars, we need more aussie companys like em:thumbsup:

[BlitZ]

IMo the EK whiteline kit should reflect the EG/DC kit in design

NOTE EG civics share the same rear swaybar (Si and vti) as vtir and Gsi tegs ~ and also use the exact same upgrade from whiteline ( same part )

you cant.. the eg/dc places the control arm bolt on the outside of the mount holes on ed/dc and on the inside for EK.,,, so the same design cant be utlised

[BlitZ]

Your 1/2 right.

They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.

The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.

Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.

Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.



the only difference in the kit is endlinks.. and maybe 4 nuts

[muhhan]

Whiteline's response not only makes me happy with their products but also with their business ethics as well. If this is the way they respond then I will happily make my next suspension purchase a Whiteline purchase!

[Muzz]

Whiteline's response not only makes me happy with their products but also with their business ethics as well. If this is the way they respond then I will happily make my next suspension purchase a Whiteline purchase!

damn straight, mucho respecto to them:thumbsup:

[Perry]

curious asking the people which had the subframe problem what yr model are their civics?

[Muzz]

il like to join the two brackets as one long solid brace like the asr or comptech, spread the load out over all the bolt holes more evenly.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/muzz1987/zzzz.jpg
i know it is basically the same sort of thing as asr and comptech, but its the best way to go i recon.
That way, for the subframe to crack, both ears will need to snap, taking more force to do so, the way i see it, having it as one solid mount is much better than a single mount per subframe ear.
Also, nice large backing plates to completly prevent plucking the bolts out.

[Whiteline]

G'day Everyone,

Thanks for the positive feedback. We've had a look at all the information here, and we have some good ideas, but before we go any further we need to have a look at a car to check it out properly.

This is where we ask for your help. If anyone, ideally someone after a new rear swaybar, is able to bring their EK Civic to our Minto, Sydney workshop, we would like to hear from you. In return, we'll supply and fit a new swaybar. Please email support@whiteline.com.au with your car and contact details.

Regards,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive.

[BLKek]

Out of curiousity, can this problem happen to the factory rear end, from time to time the rear feels loose and like it "slips" (liek the rear slides over a bit but the wheels are firmly planted) depending on the corner (usually at moderate speeds) :confused: Nothing looks visual, its like the wheel nuts aren't tight enough, but they are, tyre pressure is Ok also.

[twing]

arrrrgggg.. wish i can take this opportunity, but I'm in melb.

come on guys, take this chance !!! preferably EK (GLi, CXi, Vti.. no Vti-R cause they have frame strengthen already) with stock suspension.


G'day Everyone,

Thanks for the positive feedback. We've had a look at all the information here, and we have some good ideas, but before we go any further we need to have a look at a car to check it out properly.

This is where we ask for your help. If anyone, ideally someone after a new rear swaybar, is able to bring their EK Civic to our Minto, Sydney workshop, we would like to hear from you. In return, we'll supply and fit a new swaybar. Please email support@whiteline.com.au with your car and contact details.

Regards,
Wojtek.
Whiteline Automotive.

[bennjamin]

any news on this ?
My mate tried ordering a EG/DC swaybar , and they said they are being remade too....?????

[spacepants_fb]

Well for the ek, my mate has just taken my car to whiteline for them to examine (I was the lucky one to score the R&D freebie) and they said it will take 2-3 weeks for a prototype to be created. Then it will be fitted on to my car.

[0098]

how do i take this whiteline peice of metal off? lol

[Muzz]

how do i take this whiteline peice of metal off? lol

What do you mean.. You want to remove your sway bar?:confused: thats one very unspecific question lol:p

[0098]

yes, is it easy to do or where can i take the car to so a pro can remove it

[Muzz]

Its easy to do, however i wouldnt attempt it without having a torque wrench to do the lca bolts back up to the correct torque. However saying that, the cost of having it removed, would be about the same as buying yourself a torque wrench.

Why are you wanting to remove it?
Is it because your afraid of subframe dammage?

If so, first tell us what the diameter of the bar is, and exactly what model of car its on. Theres a good chance that you have absolutly nothing to worry about. Its only a concern on few select models, and only when thick swaybars are used.

[0098]

its on a civic coupe em1 , i dont know what mm the bar is i didnt put it on..

[Muzz]

Find out, wrap a piece of string around it, and measure the circumferance, let me know if you dont know how to convert the circumferance to diameter.

What trim level is your EM1??
Weather the EM1 subframe is a concern is somthing im completly unsure of, maby somone else can chime in. All i know is that the ek hatches that didnt come stock with a swaybar need aditional bracing.

[0098]

i dont know what the trim level is, im not even sure if i know what that is?
and who would of thought during school id end up needing to know maths to measure a swaybar on my future car lol

[mimps]

Hullo hullo
this problem applies to em1 as well as ek

my car is an em1 with stock swaybar

18mm whiteline swaybar upgrade tore the subframe (see very first post on this thread for pics)

[0098]

Hullo hullo
this problem applies to em1 as well as ek

my car is an em1 with stock swaybar

18mm whiteline swaybar upgrade tore the subframe (see very first post on this thread for pics)

yes thats why id like to remove mine lol

[tinkerbell]

since you had to ask the question, and the job involves being in one of the most dangerours places you can be around a car...

please, take it to a workshop.

[A.G.System]

since you had to ask the question, and the job involves being in one of the most dangerours places you can be around a car...

please, take it to a workshop.

Dude what crap are you smoking?

I thought the most dangerous place was in the drivers seat!

All that is required is to remove the few bolts that hold the bar in place out and then remove the bracket from the LCA. Oh wait i forgot.... if you unbolt the LCA the car explodes!

What is with this forum??

Its like people here cant see the forest because of all the trees in the way.



...../me goes off to buy a Skyline.

[tinkerbell]

you forgot to mention "jack stands" AG System...

[A.G.System]

You dont NEED to use jack stands.

its is just safer to do so.

Just like i didnt mention that he better make sure that he is on a flat level surface and that he needs to torque up the bolts when done.

Some things are just common sense for some.

[tinkerbell]

yes, exactly, like how it is commensense to you how to remove a sway bar...

i.e. if you have to ask how to remove a sway bar = :nervous:

hence my comment.

but hey, whatever, maybe "head crushed whilst removing sway bar" headlines in the daily telegraph dont phase you that much?

[A.G.System]

but hey, whatever, maybe "head crushed whilst removing sway bar" headlines in the daily telegraph dont phase you that much?

Thats called Darwins Natural Selection.

its a win for not only me but the whole gene pool.

[SiReal]

0098, please note when removing a swaybar from your vehicle, you will have to have the car jacked up and wheels off the ground - so the LCA doesnt smack into you when the bolts are taken out.

i have a DIY for installation (see sig) - 01 accord, however we run a different system. Still, please feel free to look into it as a general reference. There are also notes on what to do if civic/tegra, etc.

edit: look for notes by roar and bennjamin. :thumbsup:
edit#2: 0098, also since you arent sure if your Rear SwayBar (RSB) is factory or not, do an initial inspection. Is it black? Are the bushes black? Do they seem to fit perfectly with the subframe mounting brackets? I'm not 100% sure, but if your car did come with RSB factory, KEEP it. Honda would've designed your car as an overall balanced package WITH RSB.

[SiReal]

aya...stop your bickering la. haha.. lets keep this thread on topic. peace ;)

[0098]

i know i have a white line swaybar , and its thicker than the standard one thats why i brought removal up. Thanks for the answers but id rather someone removes it for me, ill just fcuk something or myself up trying..

[Muzz]

since you had to ask the question, and the job involves being in one of the most dangerours places you can be around a car...

please, take it to a workshop.

lmfao, are you serious? great advice there lol. If he plans on doing work on his car in the future, he's gunna have to learn how to use jackstand saftly sooner or later..

this is what removing your bar involves.
1. remove swaybar endlinks from LCA's (bolt number 1, do each side)
2. remove bolts #2 on each side, the bolts that hold the swaybar on to the mounts. You can now remove the swaybar.
Simple, easy as pie!

This can all be done without putting the car on jack stands, leave it on the ground. The LCA bolt does not need to be removed as you can leave the mounts on the car, with no ill effects. If i were in your position this is all id probably do.

if you want to remove the mounts from the subframe, simply remove bolts #3.

There is a chance your mounts use 3 bolts to hold it in place instead of 2 as in the picture, the 3rd bolt will be bolt #4. If you decide to remove the mounts, and this bolt needs to be removed, you will need to jack the car up and place it on jack stands (ask if you dont know how to do this properly), on a level surface. Remove the 3 bolts, and the mounts. You will need to replace bolt #4, you need a torque wrench to do the bolt up to the correct tightness.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/muzz1987/CIMG2047.jpg

[Muzz]

ill just fcuk something or myself up trying..

theres nothing that can go wrong if you only go up to step 2 as above, dont be afraid to get your hands dirty buddy:thumbsup: this would have to be one of the simplest easiest things you could do to your car, if you know how to undo bolts, your set. Dont be put off by tinkerbells advice!

[Mr_will]

Dude what crap are you smoking?

I thought the most dangerous place was in the drivers seat!

All that is required is to remove the few bolts that hold the bar in place out and then remove the bracket from the LCA. Oh wait i forgot.... if you unbolt the LCA the car explodes!

What is with this forum??

Its like people here cant see the forest because of all the trees in the way.



...../me goes off to buy a Skyline.


well considering you have to be partially under your car to do it, id say that potentially having 12-1300kgs of car pushing down on your face/chest/legs represents a real danger

[bennjamin]

well considering you have to be partially under your car to do it, id say that potentially having 12-1300kgs of car pushing down on your face/chest/legs represents a real danger

Exactly.

Having someone on this forum (or any forum) telling its easy to do without jack stands ~ opens up the flood gates for personal liability. Anyone who tries to do it "without" jack stands could injure or kill them self quite easily.
In the interest of safety and preserving Ozhonda , THINK before you type !!!

[Muzz]

Exactly.

Having someone on this forum (or any forum) telling its easy to do without jack stands ~ opens up the flood gates for personal liability. Anyone who tries to do it "without" jack stands could injure or kill them self quite easily.
In the interest of safety and preserving Ozhonda , THINK before you type !!!

i hope your not thinking im saying to jack the car up, and get under it without jackstands, thats just plain lunacy!




This can all be done without putting the car on jack stands, leave it on the ground. The LCA bolt does not need to be removed as you can leave the mounts on the car, with no ill effects. If i were in your position this is all id probably do.



i was pointing out that if he only removes the swaybar from its mounting plate, he wont need to remove the lca bolt ie, he wont need to jack the wheels off the ground, meaning that the is absolutly no danger of the veichle falling.

If you use jackstands properly, on a flat surface, there is nothing to worry about when getting under the car. I wouldnt think for a second of getting under a car that is supported by a jack.

[bennjamin]

i hope your not thinking im saying to jack the car up, and get under it without jackstands, thats just plain lunacy!


....anyone sugeesting "easy to get under a car without jackstands" opens up people to mis understand info , and try without jack stands. This could mean using only a jack etc. Might lead to an injury or death. Which leads to legal implications to you as the poster.
Please dont defend yourself or your previous words ~ its simple enough that using jack stands properly are the safest way to work on a car and especially get under neath.
Do you understand why "Ozhonda" enforces the dislcaimer (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5584) now ? (with actual DIY's)

[Mr_will]

i see your (muzz's) point. although even on my da9, which had stock suspension, its pretty hard to get under far enough to do all of this

[Muzz]

....anyone sugeesting "easy to get under a car without jackstands" opens up people to mis understand info , and try without jack stands. This could mean using only a jack etc. Might lead to an injury or death. Which leads to legal implications to you as the poster.
Please dont defend yourself or your previous words ~ its simple enough that using jack stands properly are the safest way to work on a car and especially get under neath.
Do you understand why "Ozhonda" enforces the dislcaimer (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5584) now ? (with actual DIY's)

yeah nar i totally understand why there is the disclaimer.

I spose if you want perfect english, then i should of said -
"you dont need to jack the car up off the ground" instead of saying, "you dont need to place the car on jackstands, you can do it on the ground". I thought what i said was self explanitary, it would be pretty hard to interpret that as "jack the car up, but you dont need to use jackstands" i guess i just assumed it was common knowledge that if you plan to get under your car, than you put it on jackstands.

Anyways i totally understand where your commin from ben:thumbsup:

[0098]

http://i15.tinypic.com/47380u8.jpg

got those cracks on both sides...

torn subframe?

[SiReal]

its good u got it out before it completely snapped. still u'll need to have it rewelded. maybe u should approacj whiteline. they might be nice enough to help you out.

[0098]

ive still got the swaybar on..

man **** where do i go to fix this im in the fairfield area sydney

can any mechanic fix it? or someone like pedders?

or is this a job for a panel beater?

Anyone know??

[tinkerbell]

um, take it to Whitleline...

[BlitZ]

haahahah victim number 100000001....

[BlitZ]

is the plate spaced out?


http://i15.tinypic.com/47380u8.jpg

got those cracks on both sides...

torn subframe?

[0098]

um, take it to Whitleline...

This address?

Whiteline Automotive
4 Lincoln St
Minto NSW 2566
Australia


Are they just going to talk to me, or actually weld the cracks lol
because im not going to minto for a conversation.

[todas**t]

i think they should fix the road to much bounce..

[Muzz]

lol, todas**t, is your name infering that todas parts are shit? if so, what are you basing that on?

[tinkerbell]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&u=13458

[0098]

ive still got the swaybar on..

man **** where do i go to fix this im in the fairfield area sydney

can any mechanic fix it? or someone like pedders?

or is this a job for a panel beater?

Anyone know??

:confused:

pedders said maybe, but there has to be someone that does this stuff?
just 2 cracks nothing extreme.

[todas**t]

lol, todas**t, is your name infering that todas parts are shit? if so, what are you basing that on?

hahahaha ill let u figure that out....parts r good but :confused:isnt

[Muzz]

hmmm, service? communication?, delivery time?, pricing?, technical help?.
There parts are extremly well designed and engineered, and they work very well. Thats the only thing that worries me!

I give in:p , do tell.

[todas**t]

all i can say is produst is good the rest isnt.....

[tinkerbell]

keep it on topic Muzz...

[0098]

like 100 people cracked their subframes, so where did you get it fixed?