drivetrain for a turbo B18b

[[SDCTVE]]

ok guys, i need some technical advice here.
i got a avo stage 1 turbo kit on my DC2
internals are stock, but im hoping to get a rebuild with forged pistons and rods as soon as i find a decent worskshop.
im hoping after that, the block can handle about 12-15psi comfortabely.
im aiming at about 170kw atw
atm im running a piggyback ecu with a 5th injector.
but what about my gearbox?
what sort of upgrading will it need to handle all that power?
and is the piggyback ecu enough?

anyone else with a b18b turbo?

[ProECU]

you wont need forged internals if you only plan to get 170kw.

spend your money on proper engine management and a good tune.
You will also want to upgrade the turbo that comes with that kit. I rekon its too small for the target power you're after.

[saxman]

']
atm im running a piggyback ecu with a 5th injector.

This is MUCH more limiting to your reliable power production than the stock internals

[[SDCTVE]]

firstly, the turbo that comes with that is a garrett28 ball bearing turbo, thats a decent size turbo man, its the same turbo in a s15 pretty much.
and if i want the block to last dont i need to change the internals???

[ProECU]

']firstly, the turbo that comes with that is a garrett28 ball bearing turbo, thats a decent size turbo man, its the same turbo in a s15 pretty much.
and if i want the block to last dont i need to change the internals???

It's NOT a big turbo man.

The stock sleeves and rods/pistons will take 12psi. You will need a larger turbo than the tiny baby GT28 if you want to get close to 170kw on a SOHC.

[[SDCTVE]]

ive seen it done. 170kw from a gt28 is do-able!. im definately gettin a rebuild with forged pistons and rods....maybe even 440cc injectors. i just dont know about my ecu or the gearbox

[ProECU]

Goodluck. I'm sure you'll get there, I was giving you the cheapest & easiest option.

With a rebuild as planned, i'd be dissapointed with 170kw

[tinkerbell]

It's NOT a big turbo man.

The stock sleeves and rods/pistons will take 12psi. You will need a larger turbo than the tiny baby GT28 if you want to get close to 170kw on a SOHC.

SOHC :confused:

[Q_ball]

The S and the D keys are pretty close to one another :p

[ProECU]

SOHC :confused:

yeah my mistake. I still stand by my original comments, there's an easier way to get 170kw which will cost him less than his planned route.

end of day, his build, his ca$h, his decision

[[SDCTVE]]

ok... maybe i left out that my bottom end is on its way. which means i either rebuild with stronger internals or get another b18 dropped in....

[tinkerbell]

either way, sounds like an expensive route...

[[SDCTVE]]

well i dont have much of an option... or i can sell it the way it is! and save a the money and headache.

[saxman]

which gt28 are we talking about here?

There's a big difference between some of the oem gt28's and something like a gt2871r

[[SDCTVE]]

not too sure, i know its the same gt28 from a S15.

[MR-VTEC]

Do you have some sort of idea of what kind of costs are involved with what your planning?

take your time, sit down and work out exactly how much everything you plan on doing is going to cost you.

the reason i say this is most times you'll realise what your planning is going to cost a whole lot MORE than you think.....then you'll have to decide whether it's really worth it?

once you have some prices down then make a decision about what you really want to do.

imo your better off addressing your fuel and management setup before you go into rebuilding your engine.

Also if you end up rebuilding it, imo you will not be satisfied with 170kw.

[[SDCTVE]]

yea... i have set a budget...i've got about $5k
my expected pricing is about....
$800 - $1000 for pistons
$500 - $600 for rods
$500 - $600 for injectors
and roughly about $400 for stainless steel intercooler piping, atm i got silicone piping.
it all adds up to about $2500...and another $2500 for rings and labour...etc
but im still stressing out about my ecu and gearbox.
what if after the rebuild ill need to change the ecu?
ill be broke! LoL

[saxman]

the gt28 out fo the s15 is smaller than most of the gt28's you'll see turbo hondas running.

the ecu/fueling set up you have right now is unnacceptable for turbo use... so yes, budget a new one in. Once you have a good set up(hondata at least), there's no need for you to change anything after than point. The tranny will work fine, especially at that power level.

[[SDCTVE]]

so what your saying is....if i add on a hondata S200 for eg. my gearbox will be running fine and will handle the power the engine is produsing?

[[ricer]]

dont bother rebuilding it i reckon

u got a b18b right?
i'd rebuild if it was a b18c...

b18b arnt that expensive..

pm gsipsi... he had a pretty quick turbo dc4

[[SDCTVE]]

hmmm ricer i need to rebuild it, piston number 1 is loosing compression and the bottom end is on its way....i know gsi-psi...this was his car hehe

[ProECU]

lol....

[[ricer]]

ah
well if its so soon then probably better to rebuild it incase the same problem happens again...
as for transmission, didnt he get it reconditioned recently??

[ProECU]

']so what your saying is....if i add on a hondata S200 for eg. my gearbox will be running fine and will handle the power the engine is produsing?

The s200 will crash your final gear and cause your car to reboot.

[[SDCTVE]]

yea he did, he also got a new diff recently. i went back and spoke to the guy that did it for him and he told me he changed hix box 3 times cos it wasnt handling the power hes running, then again ive heard from people that knew him that he used to drive it like a animal...that explains alot...

anyhow....ill be taking it to a workshop to run some tests on it and get quoted on a rebuild... and see what ecu to run or if this 1 is fine for now etc....

ill let you know what ill be doing and how much its all costing..

[bennjamin]

i didnt realise the "hondata" was THAT advanced...it now controls the (mechanical) gearbox too ? :)

[saxman]

']so what your saying is....if i add on a hondata S200 for eg. my gearbox will be running fine and will handle the power the engine is produsing?
no, I'm saying the gearbox will handle the power fine regardless, and that a quality ecu is needed to properly tune any turbo set up, be it stock internals or forged.

[[SDCTVE]]

no, I'm saying the gearbox will handle the power fine regardless, and that a quality ecu is needed to properly tune any turbo set up, be it stock internals or forged.

the ecu i got atm is the one that came out with this turbo kit....surely its doin the job...

[saxman]

very very very very very very few turbo kits come with acceptable engine management. The fact it's running a 5th injector set up tells me it is FAR from acceptable.


the fact that you've got compression issues and such would suggest it's not doing it's job

[[SDCTVE]]

so what ecu do u recommend?

[saxman]

personally, I like uberdata... but that's personal preference.

Something with good fuel tuning resolution, good timing control, etc.

This means no emanage, no vafc, no black box, no piggybacks, etc.

hondata would be perfectly fine, as would the aem ems, etc... whatever your tuner is most comfortable with that gives proper tuning control.

[[SDCTVE]]

wats a rough price ill be looking at for a new ecu?

[saxman]

depends on the ecu

[[SDCTVE]]

from the feedback im getting already,
im starting to reconsider the rebuild and just drop a reco B18b in and just run proper engine management and 440cc injectors this time....

[ProECU]

only took you 3 pages to get back to what i said post#2.

not bad, faster than most.

[[SDCTVE]]

but how much am i saving? cos ill still need a ecu, injectors and intercooler piping. so basically im substituting the cost of a rebuild with forged pistons n rods for a reco engine. a reco engine is about $2000 labour included plus a ecu and injectors and piping, im lookin at about $4000 on the other hand, a rebuild will cost me another $2000 roughly on top of that for the work i want done. is it worth saving some money though? ill be getting less life out of the engine,

[poid]

no, you will get MORE life out of the engine with a proper ECU and injectors, even on a stock block. There is no point in building a forged engine if you are going to run it half-arsed.

[saxman]

no you're not... the ecu and injectors needs to be done regardless of if you rebuild or use a stock motor.

[[SDCTVE]]

yea i think i might just go with plan B haha, i dont plan to keep the car for long anyway, maybe ill sell it just after next years autosalon :p

[yourfather]

took GSI-PSI months to sell this car.

If you're serious about what you wanna do to this car, listen to SAXMAN and ProECU.

Get a proper ECU, Power FC for your car is like 900 bucks.
Injectors RC550 injectiors!

As they said, dont f*ck around with an S15 turbo, it is too small!
Just because it comes off a 2litre Nissan Silvia that makes 150kw at the flywheel stock, does not mean that you will get 170 atw with your 1.8 litre hondaz.

As they said, driveline should be fine, Q-Ball's GSI teg makes like 200kw + and uses stock DC4 gearbox. Ronnie Lim's 11 sec DC2 VTi-R drag car uses the stock gearbox. Driving style is the issue.

[GSI-PSI]

ok think its time i might but into this. Firstly listen to proecu, secondly a secondhand engine will cost you around $600 which is the reason why i decided to turbo a gsi compared to a vtec, thirdly that gearbox will take the power easily and the only reason why the diff went in it is cos i took the car to calder and stuffed up my pre run burnout (hence my avatar to the left). Look all arguements aside, you really have a decent car there and it wont cost you much to get that thing going nuts again. Now that you know i used to come on this forum you can search my old threads for the history of the car. Oh and 1 other thing you gotta learn on this site is that you can opnly really trust the opinions of about 2 or 3 people on here and proecu is in that list. Oh and another thing the "silicon hoses" you say are really
kevlar pipeing which is the best for this application.
thankyou

pat
(pre owner of this car)