Euro - Headers or Pulleys?

[sodaz]

I'm planning to add either one of those to my Euro in the near future. But before i do that, i'd like to hear some opinions first.

Headers v.s Pulleys - Pros and Cons. Tell me what you think! :thumbsup:

[curik]

Header.

Pros: POWA in all rpm.
Cons: makes you wanna put the pedal down, hissing sound (for DC & DC copy & Maxims)

Pulleys.

Pros : POWA in all rpm range, better fuel consumption.
Cons : Same as header. Cannot use amps or subs unless if you upgrade the battery.

For a starter, I'd recommend the header. You will gain more when you get the complete setup (Intake and Exhaust). For the hissing sound, there is a thread about it.

[Chris_F]

if your looking for a value for money performance upgrade spend 700 or so and get a lightweight flywheel that'll do more than an I/H/E combined as it will the pulley.

if it has to be between those two though, get the header - there's been issues with the with the stock pulley belt losing tension or something (header seems the safer option)

[stephen8512]

agreed with chris_F
my next mod is the JDM DC5R flywheel. but personalyl i wanted to do I/H/E first then the flywheel

[tony1234]

Does anyone know if there is a heavy duty clutch and lightened flywheel combo available that is specifically for the
euro instead of having to go for the DC5 setup?

[Type R Positive]

Does anyone know if there is a heavy duty clutch and lightened flywheel combo available that is specifically for the
euro instead of having to go for the DC5 setup?
Well they are the same set up.....

Comptech has a lightened flywheel for the TSX, exedy have a clutch setup for the TSX too. I am sure they are the same as the ones for the RSX though!

[tony1234]

Well they are the same set up.....

Comptech has a lightened flywheel for the TSX, exedy have a clutch setup for the TSX too. I am sure they are the same as the ones for the RSX though!
I heard the area on the flywheel facing on the DC5R(where the clutch etc sits) is smaller/less than the Euro!

[TypeG]

if your car doesnt have HEI at all, I will get either intake or exhuast first.
between these two... I will get pulley coz i get those hiss sound lol

Clutch and flywheel are the same for dc5 and euro or maybe even the new civic with K engine in. I personally wont go for JDM dc5r as I think aftermarket one are lighter and I will get clutch at the same time.

[tron07]

got any photos, pulleys and headers?

[aaronng]

I heard the area on the flywheel facing on the DC5R(where the clutch etc sits) is smaller/less than the Euro!
When you change to an aftermarket flywheel, you need to get a clutch that matches it as the size is different. I think it applies to the DC5 as well.

[Type R Positive]

I heard the area on the flywheel facing on the DC5R(where the clutch etc sits) is smaller/less than the Euro!
Righto, well there you go! I had the strong impression that they were the same.

[tony1234]

I think i'll wait with this mod if/when OEM clutch wears out.

[sodaz]

Thanks for the feedback. After doing a bit of reading on other forums here what i came up with. Let me know what you think...

Pulleys
Pros:
1. Improvement in power across the whole rev range (esp low to mid)
2. Car revs noticeably faster and you notice the power the second you step on it.

Cons:
1. Possible battery problems (doesn't charge battery as much) - new battery?
2. Less power to the accessories (Lights, Power Steering, Wipers etc)
3. Even though the engine is internally balanced, there's really no way to tell how it would affect the engine in the long run.

Headers
Pros:
1. Give a good power increase across the rev range
2. Easy installation
3. No reliability issues (supposedly less risk)

Cons:
1. Slight dips in power in the mid range (3000ish)
2. Possible hissing sounds and vibrations

[yfin]

Sodaz - it might help to know if you have any existing mods on your car? Have you done the intake yet?

[Chris_F]

I heard the area on the flywheel facing on the DC5R(where the clutch etc sits) is smaller/less than the Euro!

I had the option of running the jdm dc5r flywheel with the stock euro clutch, so i believe they should be the same. I can't 100% confirm this though without more research, although i had the exedy sports organic and oem euro flywheel out at the same time and they seemed to be of the same size (key word being seemed :P). If i can locate some information that confirms this (or otherwise) i'll ad it to this thread.

TypeG, the aftermarket ones are slightly lighter and with the exedy unit you save 0.5kg over the jdm dc5r, i believe its a similar weight saving if you go for toda (which is up to 1kg lighter)

personally i erred on the side of caution going with an oem honda product that is obviously reliable in a k application. the k24s long stroke may also be a reason for concern with extremely light flywheels, or not. But its not something i wanted to test out.

like i said before, i think the header is a good choice and if you go for a quality product the cracking shouldn't be an issue.

I'd also like to know your current mods to make a better judgement:thumbsup:

[sodaz]

Sodaz - it might help to know if you have any existing mods on your car? Have you done the intake yet?

Yep i've got the Comptech icebox with the ITG filter. I've also got the Cusco front strut, lower tie type 1 and whiteline rear sway bar.

[tony1234]

[QUOTE=Chris_F;988360]I had the option of running the jdm dc5r flywheel with the stock euro clutch, so i believe they should be the same. I can't 100% confirm this though without more research, although i had the exedy sports organic and oem euro flywheel out at the same time and they seemed to be of the same size (key word being seemed :P). If i can locate some information that confirms this (or otherwise) i'll ad it to this thread.

TypeG, the aftermarket ones are slightly lighter and with the exedy unit you save 0.5kg over the jdm dc5r, i believe its a similar weight saving if you go for toda (which is up to 1kg lighter)

personally i erred on the side of caution going with an oem honda product that is obviously reliable in a k application. the k24s long stroke may also be a reason for concern with extremely light flywheels, or not. But its not something i wanted to test out.
Yeah Chris.I'd be int.to know more.I'd consider a lightened flywheel(not too light)and a heavy duty clutch.I don't want a clutch that is "noisy".i'd want it to be as close to stock(re: noise, pedal feel etc.) as possible......Thanks.
like i said before, i think the header is a good choice and if you go for a quality product the cracking shouldn't be an issue.

[Type R Positive]

I had the option of running the jdm dc5r flywheel with the stock euro clutch, so i believe they should be the same.
That's what I thought.....

[tony1234]

Not sure.can anyone confirm this?:confused:

[Chris_F]

Yeah Chris.I'd be int.to know more.I'd consider a lightened flywheel(not too light)and a heavy duty clutch.I don't want a clutch that is "noisy".i'd want it to be as close to stock(re: noise, pedal feel etc.) as possible......Thanks.
like i said before, i think the header is a good choice and if you go for a quality product the cracking shouldn't be an issue.

hehe tony you forgot to ad the [/quote] ;)

You can actually get an OEM spec clutch through exedy, that should offer the same characteristics as stock. Because it's expensive to have a new flywheel fitted i went with a new sportier clutch at the same time hoping itll last a bit longer than the oem one (maybe). But for the performance a flywheel is well worth the money and yo ushouldnt let the installation cost put you off. For $7-800 you can have a comptech flywheel that is about 4.5kg including installation. No catback, intake or header (and most likely any combination of those without tuning) is going to give you as much of a gain. So in that sense its a great bang for the buck mod.

The only downside.. there's little to know wank factor... you can't hear it, you can't see it, but you can definitely feel it.

IMO a mildly modified well rounded euro would consist of coilovers and or sway bars, brake pads and a flywheel - I/H/E mods are over rated but they do look good and make the car sound the part at least ;)

[ALN]

Not sure.can anyone confirm this?:confused:

I'm using comptech flywheel on my euro. It will only fit with euro spec clutch that's what the exedy mechanics told me. If you wanna running exedy DC5 setups you must buy the clutch and the flywheels setups from exedy that also works for any after market setups.
About the JDM DC5 flywheels, better ask Chris F. Hope this info can help

[tony1234]

I'm using comptech flywheel on my euro. It will only fit with euro spec clutch that's what the exedy mechanics told me. If you wanna running exedy DC5 setups you must buy the clutch and the flywheels setups from exedy that also works for any after market setups.
About the JDM DC5 flywheels, better ask Chris F. Hope this info can help

What brand of clutch are you using ALN?How much did it all cost and where did you get it all from?......Thanks.

[sodaz]

LOL this thread has turned into a clutch discussion thread!!

[tony1234]

IMO a mildly modified well rounded euro would consist of coilovers and or sway bars, brake pads and a flywheel - I/H/E mods are over rated but they do look good and make the car sound the part at least ;)[/QUOTE]
I agree.that's why i'm asking lots of Qs re:lightened flywheel.:p

[Chris_F]

LOL this thread has turned into a clutch discussion thread!!

hahaha sorry, that was partially my fault. Not totally off topic though because i think it's something else you should seriously consider.:thumbsup:

hahaha tony mate you need to learn how to quote

Given the information that ALN posted a jdm dc5r flywheel would have to be matched with a dc5 specific clutch. I know my clutch is a dc5 application but just assumed a CL9 application wasn't available.. obviously it was becasue of the flywheel i chose :p

[Type R Positive]

LOL this thread has turned into a clutch discussion thread!!
All good! Does the same thing as pulleys really, but better!!!!!!
Good thing someone brought it up. :cool:

[tony1234]

hahaha tony mate you need to learn how to quote

Your'e talking to the not so computer literate!!!!

[Chris_F]

hehe, just press the button that says 'quote' at the bottom right of someones post and it'll do it all for you :)

[tony1234]

hehe, just press the button that says 'quote' at the bottom right of someones post and it'll do it all for you :)
Yeah i know,somehow on yours i screwed it up.:confused:

[ALN]

What brand of clutch are you using ALN?How much did it all cost and where did you get it all from?......Thanks.

I'm using the exedy single clutch but not sure for which application, since I've done that via RE custom. Exedy guys took the closest application to euro and modify it to fit it since it wasn't released at that time. It's around $8xx for the clutch from what I remember excluding the labour. I think this year has been released application for euro/ tsx so just check it first.


Back to topic, my opinion better get the header first since it is like compulsory for exhaust and pulley is just like additional supplementary when you have complete minor mods.

[tony1234]

I'm using the exedy single clutch but not sure for which application, since I've done that via RE custom. Exedy guys took the closest application to euro and modify it to fit it since it wasn't released at that time. It's around $8xx for the clutch from what I remember excluding the labour. I think this year has been released application for euro/ tsx so just check it first.


Back to topic, my opinion better get the header first since it is like compulsory for exhaust and pulley is just like additional supplementary when you have complete minor mods.
Thanks for the info.I'll do HIE first then look at doing either pulleys or lightened flywheel,clutch etc.

[sodaz]

I definitely won't be upgrading my exhaust in the future but since i have the intake already would this provide more noticeable gains than the pulleys?

[Chris_F]

Aftermarket exhausts by themselves aren't really shown to give much of a gain on a euro. THe comptech one for example gives a maz of about 5hp in parts of the rev range, not really bang for the buck. A combination of a quality header and exhaust should make more noticeable gains but its pretty low on bang for the buck IMO.

If your not gonna go full IHE... why not consider the flywheel?

[sodaz]

The flywheel looks like an interesting mod for sure but the installation time scares me a bit. :eek:

[JasonGilholme]

Shouldn't take too long to install. A day maximum if its gettin done @ a shop. A weekend if its a DIY and you've never done it before.

[tony1234]

Aftermarket exhausts by themselves aren't really shown to give much of a gain on a euro. THe comptech one for example gives a maz of about 5hp in parts of the rev range, not really bang for the buck. A combination of a quality header and exhaust should make more noticeable gains but its pretty low on bang for the buck IMO.

If your not gonna go full IHE... why not consider the flywheel?
I'm going to do IHE and reflash with JTUNE.When it finally arrives!!!!

[Type R Positive]

I'm going to do IHE and reflash with JTUNE.When it finally arrives!!!!
What, still not here? :confused:

[tony1234]

What, still not here? :confused:

Nope.arrrrrrr.:(

[sodaz]

What, still not here? :confused:

It's really quite disappointing to be honest.

[ALN]

I'm going to do IHE and reflash with JTUNE.When it finally arrives!!!!

if you don't mind, may I ask you why you want to buy Jtune setups and willing to wait that long for it? I mean there many others good after market exhaust system around from Japan or US

[aaronng]

if you don't mind, may I ask you why you want to buy Jtune setups and willing to wait that long for it? I mean there many others good after market exhaust system around from Japan or US

JTune's exhaust is meant for street and not as loud as those from Japan and US.

Also if you go for stage 4, it's a package of I/H/E and reflash.

[ALN]

JTune's exhaust is meant for street and not as loud as those from Japan and US.

Also if you go for stage 4, it's a package of I/H/E and reflash.

I meant most Japs also quite and still provide power except the N1 style or competition use one which is louder. I'm also consider it also in term of the price since Jtune ain't cheap setups and it haven't been released in quite sometime.

[aaronng]

I meant most Japs also quite and still provide power except the N1 style or competition use one which is louder. I'm also consider it also in term of the price since Jtune ain't cheap setups and it haven't been released in quite sometime.

Even their street ones like Greddy EVO are loud.

[ALN]

Even their street ones like Greddy EVO are loud.

The greddy evo design is more close to skunk2 exhaust design ( the size of resonator) which cause it louder than other design.

I mean there are many other brands from Japs
HKS, 5zigen, FGk, Tanabe, Mugen are still pretty quite for street and the quality of welding is exellence and still produce power. I mean in term of price also, Jtune is ain't cheap even though the advantages would be the reflash tune specified by hondata.

[aaronng]

Ewww.... 5zigen....... and Mugen is just for show.
What are the gains on dyno for those 5 jap brands?

[sodaz]

I'm not sure if any of the exhaust designs provide any noticeable power without ECU programming.

BTW, i've decided to go for the pulleys. I'll order it some time next month. There are more than 15 people on the TSX forums and many other who have installed it on their RSXs without any issues. I think it's a safe enough mod to do. I'm also thinking of installing a new battery and possibly a volt meter in the future just in case.

Will keep you guys updated! :)

[ALN]

Ewww.... 5zigen....... and Mugen is just for show.
What are the gains on dyno for those 5 jap brands?

I have to disagree, since I saw once one Dc5r with Mugen setup I/H/E plus mugen ecu produce 141kw atw on dyno dynamics and one Dc5r had similar setups without ecu still got 132 kw atw on the same dyno and the same day.
So totally I think it is not just for looks.

I mean Jtune exhaust itself would be still restrictive if not it won't be quiet. If you want to get maximum results get the N1 or competition use since it use less restrictive design or minimum like J's racing, spoon etc that focus on straight through design. Well anyway NA cars won't be like turbo cars when choosing exhaust would be so critical, since one good brand to another would be only very little to minimum comparison in terms of kw produced, the difference would only in quality of the matarials and looks.

[aaronng]

I have to disagree, since I saw once one Dc5r with Mugen setup I/H/E plus mugen ecu produce 141kw atw on dyno dynamics and one Dc5r had similar setups without ecu still got 132 kw atw on the same dyno and the same day.
So totally I think it is not just for looks.

You can't tell from those dynos how much the exhaust contributed to the gain. I'm sure that the Mugen I/H+ECU does make quite a bit but the stock DC5R muffler is pretty good too. BTW, JTune's I/H/E + reflash was dyno'd at 151kW on a Dynapack, while an Euro with intake and Fujitsubo exhaust got 118kW.

Eventhough JTune has a nice product, it means jack if they don't release it. Most of us have been waiting for over a year.

[sodaz]

Eventhough JTune has a nice product, it means jack if they don't release it. Most of us have been waiting for over a year.

So true...

[tony1234]

if you don't mind, may I ask you why you want to buy Jtune setups and willing to wait that long for it? I mean there many others good after market exhaust system around from Japan or US
As aaron says it's a complete package.Supposed to give 150kw atw and dyno proven.Also in regard to reflashes and piggy back ECUs what else is available?I've done a bit of research and there doesn't seem to be anything out there that is 100% compatible.BTW my car is an 06 man.

[ALN]

You can't tell from those dynos how much the exhaust contributed to the gain. I'm sure that the Mugen I/H+ECU does make quite a bit but the stock DC5R muffler is pretty good too. BTW, JTune's I/H/E + reflash was dyno'd at 151kW on a Dynapack, while an Euro with intake and Fujitsubo exhaust got 118kW.

Eventhough JTune has a nice product, it means jack if they don't release it. Most of us have been waiting for over a year.

I mean if the mugen stuff only for show,well it won't get good numbers in anyways .
About the hondata results of fujitsubo exhaust, I won't be taking that as a review as few of these forum members took it to dyno dynamics producing 118kw -120 kw atw depend on the wheels size and weight, my self use FGK catback and comptech airbox get 119.8 kw atw at dyno dynamics at RE custom. As you might aware Dyno dynamics reads 15% lower than dynapack dyno so I might not taking it as reference what hondata produced in dyno graph, I run 1/4 mile a year ago with FGk cat and comptech air box got 15.4 sec with 19 " and wheels hops on start at calder park

I'm not trying to create confusion whatsoever what I'm saying is dyno doesn't prove anything is just a reference since if you ask many tuners they would say there are ways to make the results higher or lower than the actual results if they want. What I'm trying to say is, Jtune is not the only good products out there for euro, there are many good products out there which also provided same features that my opinion since I also view it from pricing and uncertainty release time.:D

[Chris_F]

^ i think this is something to keep in mind... we shouldn't be comparing results across dynos and especially not different mods on different dynos. All we can do is looks at the before and after... it's the difference the Jtune products make to a base figure - the peak number is hard to gauge

[aaronng]

I mean if the mugen stuff only for show,well it won't get good numbers in anyways .
About the hondata results of fujitsubo exhaust, I won't be taking that as a review as few of these forum members took it to dyno dynamics producing 118kw -120 kw atw depend on the wheels size and weight, my self use FGK catback and comptech airbox get 119.8 kw atw at dyno dynamics at RE custom. As you might aware Dyno dynamics reads 15% lower than dynapack dyno so I might not taking it as reference what hondata produced in dyno graph, I run 1/4 mile a year ago with FGk cat and comptech air box got 15.4 sec with 19 " and wheels hops on start at calder park
Yeah, we can't compare readings from different dynos, hence I quoted the other dynapack number (which we don't know if it is valid :) ). Do you know of anyone with a stock Euro who ran their car on the RE Custom dyno?. Would be good to compare that to your 119.8 kW (which is splendid for only I/E). Unfortunately the 1/4 mile number won't mean much without other Euros to compare to. I hope that I'll be able to run my stockish car at WSID one day.

Only other 1/4 mile I know if is an auto Euro with a K&N pod which pulled 15.5 seconds at WSID.



I'm not trying to create confusion whatsoever what I'm saying is dyno doesn't prove anything is just a reference since if you ask many tuners they would say there are ways to make the results higher or lower than the actual results if they want. What I'm trying to say is, Jtune is not the only good products out there for euro, there are many good products out there which also provided same features that my opinion since I also view it from pricing and uncertainty release time.:D
True, but they are the only one with a reflash that will not be circumvented by the ECU unlike piggyback solutions.

[Chris_F]

True, but they are the only one with a reflash that will not be circumvented by the ECU unlike piggyback solutions.

I'm more interested in the fully tuneable one that's been mentioned a couple of times *crossed fingers* if this actually came out the guys in the states would be very jealous

[ALN]

Yeah, we can't compare readings from different dynos, hence I quoted the other dynapack number (which we don't know if it is valid :) ). Do you know of anyone with a stock Euro who ran their car on the RE Custom dyno?. Would be good to compare that to your 119.8 kW (which is splendid for only I/E). Unfortunately the 1/4 mile number won't mean much without other Euros to compare to. I hope that I'll be able to run my stockish car at WSID one day.

Only other 1/4 mile I know if is an auto Euro with a K&N pod which pulled 15.5 seconds at WSID.


True, but they are the only one with a reflash that will not be circumvented by the ECU unlike piggyback solutions.

My bad.:D probably better just compare it with same dyno as reference.
I had dynod mine once using XTC dynolog which also have been using by autosalon, I pulled 124kw-126 kw atw with air filter and cat back mods and my friend pulley 109-112kw atw if I'm not mistaken and his car is stock. The same mods I dynod at dyno dynamics pulled best of 119.8 kw and it is on cold weather. True 1/4 mile also affect individuals skills, but it was my first time and I even can't get the launch properly since it was wheels hops so with 15,4 sec best time with those mods, I was very happy especially it was with 19"

Probably since the only after market ecu tuning around is hondata reflash for now that have shown the results. Actually Microtech could be used in euro with affordable price but I'm not sure what might be the results. Have you consider using EFI euro ecu, it is comparable with motec in term of the features and might surpass it in term of value and it will be tuned by professionals (competition system)

[yfin]

Only other 1/4 mile I know if is an auto Euro with a K&N pod which pulled 15.5 seconds at WSID.

That is an exceptional time for the auto.

[sodaz]

That is an exceptional time for the auto.

Yeah the stock auto does the quarter in the 16s normally.