what makes the K series so special?

[BlitZ]

I know i know.. the k series makes more power..

But how does it make the power? what are the design differences to the b series?

What ive learn so far about the great K..

lean burn (65:1 air/fuel) with direct injection (from top not at an angle)
better injection sprays (finer)
piston cavity design (holds fuel better on piston top)all seems to do with fuel injection...:angel: anything else?

[bennjamin]

rotates the opposite way ? 200cc's more capacity ? umm...

[MKI4EVA]

rotates the opposite way ? 200cc's more capacity ? umm...

watch and learn boys........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDga2uSe0Hw&search=2006%20Honda%20Civic%20Si%20Neuspeed

[BlitZ]

hahah just watched it and updated post la..

however do they have valves that close on vtec to create a stronger and more rapid combustion?

[bennjamin]

great vid.

And Blitz , do you mean shorter cam-duration ? VTEC is longer duration than "off-cam" isnt it lol?

[aaronng]

I know i know.. the k series makes more power..

But how does it make the power? what are the design differences to the b series?

What ive learn so far about the great K..

lean burn (65:1 air/fuel) with direct injection (from top not at an angle)
better injection sprays (finer)
piston cavity design (holds fuel better on piston top)all seems to do with fuel injection...:angel: anything else?

First I need to clear up some things.
Lean burn: Only 1 K series has that and direct injection. And it is not sold in any AUDM models. In Japan, it's used in the Stream.
Piston cavity: This is only in the i-VTEC I direct injection engine. Not used in AUDM models.

Now to the nitty gritty, it's just an updated engine that meets current emission standards. The D series was replaced by the L and R series, while the B and H were replaced by the K series.

That's it. The only physical difference is that the engine spins the other way, exhaust headers are at the rear (emission reasons) and intake header is at the front. Individual ignition packs for each spark plug (no more dizzy). Performance K series gets oil jets under the piston (but then again, even the R series has this).

Power comes from a different selection of parts. You have cams and timing maps. Then you have lightweight pistons and balanced crank.

[BlitZ]

so u are saying its the AUDM k20 and B18c7 is essentially the same engine?
however the k20 having lighter, more balanced and more aggressive head components than even the very best b18c5/7?

then how does it make so much more power..


EG. - A fully built NA b18 would net you about 150kw atw.... an unopened k20 could net almost the same..

so are the stock k20 components better than alot of the bseries stuff? just find it hard to believe..

so there isnt anything else?



First I need to clear up some things.
Lean burn: Only 1 K series has that and direct injection. And it is not sold in any AUDM models. In Japan, it's used in the Stream.
Piston cavity: This is only in the i-VTEC I direct injection engine. Not used in AUDM models.

Now to the nitty gritty, it's just an updated engine that meets current emission standards. The D series was replaced by the L and R series, while the B and H were replaced by the K series.

That's it. The only physical difference is that the engine spins the other way, exhaust headers are at the rear (emission reasons) and intake header is at the front. Individual ignition packs for each spark plug (no more dizzy). Performance K series gets oil jets under the piston (but then again, even the R series has this).

Power comes from a different selection of parts. You have cams and timing maps. Then you have lightweight pistons and balanced crank.

*edited changed opened to unopened

[bennjamin]

whats hard not to believe ? The latest D series ( ZC/d16a8) was producing 130hp from a 1.6 back in mid 80's with hte rest of hte world lagging behind..
and then they introduced the new B series with 160hp and thigns really started moving :)
Same thing goes here - its evolution :)

[aaronng]

That video, it's for the i-VTEC I direc injection engine. For Australia NONE of the K series come with direct injection. That video only applys to the JDM Stream.

[BlitZ]

whats hard not to believe ? The latest D series ( ZC/d16a8) was producing 130hp from a 1.6 back in mid 80's with hte rest of hte world lagging behind..
and then they introduced the new B series with 160hp and thigns really started moving :)
Same thing goes here - its evolution :)


a b series and a d series is completly different in design.. that is what im looking for....

essently a b series will run high comp and different head...
b series twin cam vtec... which is not available in d series..

and that would be why it is making more power..;)

:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

so u are saying its the AUDM k20 and B18c7 is essentially the same engine?
however the k20 having lighter, more balanced and more aggressive head components than even the very best b18c5/7?

then how does it make so much more power..
K20a2 makes 147kW, while B18c7 makes 141kW. Official Honda numbers btw.
one does it with 2L, the other with 1.8L. Both have different cams that are suited to their build level.



EG. - A fully built NA b18 would net you about 150kw atw.... an opened k20 could net almost the same..
You are saying that a built b18 makes the same as a built k20? I thought you said that K makes more power.



so are the stock k20 components better than alot of the bseries stuff? just find it hard to believe..

so there isnt anything else?

I'm sure you know how an engine works. You have the intake of air controlled by your TB and limited by your intake or engine geometry, addition of fuel controlled by your ECU, valves which are controlled through the cams, compression of your charge which ratio is determined by your compression ratio, and ignition which is controlled by the ECU/dizzy, then exhaust gas goes out through the valves controlled by your cams again, and the exhaust flowrate determined by your exhaust.

Of course, in all these, the TB diameter, intake & plenum design, ECU mapping, valve sizes, cam specs, compression ratio through domed pistons, ignition timing and exhaust design are different for every engine even in the same series.

Between the B and K, the big difference is in the ignition timing. In the K, each spark plug has its own coil pack and ignition is controlled by the ECU. So depending on load, RPM, throttle opening, the ignition timing can be varied to produce optimum torque. Basically, the K can retard and advance ignition timing on the go. The B, using a dizzy has a fixed ignition which you either only retard or advance.

Edit: B can also advance or retard timing based on RPM and load.

Then you have difference in the i-VTEC mechanism where VTC in the K is able to advance the intake valve timing (up to 50º for the K20A2) based on the same conditions as well.

Other than this, everything is based on traditional engine tuning. Weight reduction on the internal parts, polishing of pathways, balancing and matching of crank, piston and rods, whatever tuners have been doing since the dawn of DOHC engines still applies to the K

[bennjamin]

B and D series is very similar in design ~ its K series that is on a new page for a "new world" :)

[aaronng]

a b series and a d series is completly different in design.. that is what im looking for....

essently a b series will run high comp and different head...
b series twin cam vtec... which is not available in d series..

and that would be why it is making more power..;)

:thumbsup:
You can increase the compression of the D using aftermarket pistons. D series also came in DOHC but without VTEC. VTEC doesn't make power. The cam specs do. If you had a DOHC D series with aggressive cams, balanced internals and I/H/E/ECU to match, you can make more power than a stock B16a.

All VTEC does is let you use lumpy highcams while keeping conservative lowcams so that the car remains drivable at low RPM and returns good fuel consumption.

[BlitZ]

this is the stuff im an after...
The question was asked in on clubitr..

Porting is different in the k series.. its apparently much better

So the head on a k is much better than a B...

http://www.pbase.com/driftking/image/24936792

[BlitZ]

Between the B and K, the big difference is in the ignition timing. In the K, each spark plug has its own coil pack and ignition is controlled by the ECU. So depending on load, RPM, throttle opening, the ignition timing can be varied to produce optimum torque. Basically, the K can retard and advance ignition timing on the go. The B, using a dizzy has a fixed ignition which you either only retard or advance.

Then you have difference in the i-VTEC mechanism where VTC in the K is able to advance the intake valve timing (up to 50º for the K20A2) based on the same conditions as well.



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
thanks thats exactly what i am after... (should just delete all the OT stuff)

i didnt want an answer of the engine are the same.. haah just tuned more with lighter components... than what is a race built engine with ported and polished head which still produces less than an almost stock k? coomponents not light/balanced enough?

[ginganggooly]

Rumour has it that the K-series heads flows a healthy amount more than the B-series heads. My guess would be that this is to do with the design of the ports, valves and combustion chambers...

[WPN.22R]

ive seen the difference between a H22 and a K20 head.. WOW the porting difference is amazing.

the K head looks like its had a massive porting job compared to the H.. flows ALOT better.