Time for new ECU?? [Archive]

Aza

11-12-2006, 10:45 AM

well just wondering with this setup the car isnt reving as much as it use to without turbo, it seems to not use the full potiential of the turbo and the increase of power although defantly there isnt as much as i want. So im wondering if the next big step to get it running faster would be to get an aftermarket ECU as atm it still has the stock one and if anyone can surgest one

specs of engine are:

D16Y engine
T03 turbo to custom manifold
35mm wastegate running 7psi
2.5" stainless intercooler piping
600x300x76 intercooler
BOV
Oil catch can
Stainless turbo radiator
Walboro 255lb fuel pump

ALSO got upgraded injectors which aint in yet.

Thanks in advance

yourfather

11-12-2006, 10:47 AM

um... if you are driving a turbo car with a stock ecu, that has not been tuned...

i think you need to reassess whether or not you should be driving at all.

Aza

11-12-2006, 11:13 AM

i havnt picked up the car yet... just from test driving it seems its not reving as high and not using the full potiential, and talk with the guy who owns it (still has it i havnt picked it up yet, picking it up this week once everything is sorted). but he has been running it for a year with this turbo, it has been turbo charged for 2 years now without any problems with it. mind u he never dragged it etc, just used it for driving round the city really. but i want to take it down the quater a few times and want it to be faster than wat it is. he recommended a new ecu, and thats what im asking u, if this is the next step for the car.

yourfather

11-12-2006, 11:20 AM

ok, but what are you running right now?

all you've given is a list of parts but they aren't all that specific. upgraded injectors, etc.

sure you have the turbo spec bits, but engine management is important. Has he got a chipped ECU, or running a Air Fuel Controller, or an EManage?

if you are serious about giving your car a bit of schtick, then you need a fully tuneable ECU.

Q_ball

11-12-2006, 11:28 AM

Get an ECU for the love of god,
Your running shit that doenst belong on a stock D16 that affect the way it operates,
You have to be able to tell the engine wat to do.

STOCK

11-12-2006, 11:39 AM

If you want it to perform to its full potential get a aftermarket ECU. HOnda is very well priced atm!

Aza

11-12-2006, 12:29 PM

yeah kinda just backed up my thoughts on with it still running a stock ecu which isnt even meant to be used on a turboed engine. can anyone surgest an ecu?

shecomb

11-12-2006, 12:44 PM

i'd say your running out of fuel or the MAP sensor is cutting your power... Try Hondata, Autronic, motec, microtech etc etc for the full ECU replacements. There are also "chips" you can run with the stock ECU such as Chrome, uberdata etc which a few guys on here are happy with.

What's your budget?

JasonGilholme

11-12-2006, 12:44 PM

I'd be more interested in finding out what sort of damage can be cause to the engine when using an ECU that DOESN"T SUPPORT BOOST!

saxman

11-12-2006, 01:36 PM

are you purchasing this car? Honestly, I wouldn't go near a car that's been running a turbo set up without engine management. That's just a huge recipe for disaster. As of right now, it's missing the most important part of the turbo set up.

I don't think you should be asking "how can I make this faster", but "how can I asses how much damage has been done".

Muzz

11-12-2006, 02:00 PM

^^^^ yeah totally agree, be very very wary buying this car! 2 years is a long time to be damaging the engine! he obviously didnt do this setup with the help of a pro, more of a backyard job, who knows what other corners have been cut!
if you do decide to buy this car, make sure u get a good mechanic to check it over at the very least.

saxman

11-12-2006, 02:31 PM

he's already cut the biggest corner of all it sounds like... doesn't really matter what else wasn't done. There's not much of a bigger red flag then "no engine management".

Aza

11-12-2006, 02:40 PM

is that much damaged really cuased even if ur not putting any boost into it? he is literally putting shit all boost into it. and my uncle will be looking at the car before i pick it up. he is a mechanic.

JasonGilholme

11-12-2006, 02:43 PM

How much boost is he running out of interest??

Aza

11-12-2006, 02:49 PM

pretty sure he said 4 psi

Aza

11-12-2006, 02:49 PM

either way the car will be fully mechanically checked by my uncle who i trust. but yeah thats interesting i know a few turboed cars running standard ecu's

Muzz

11-12-2006, 02:52 PM

pretty sure he said 4 psi
isnt he running a 7psi wastegate as mentioned in the first post?

saxman

11-12-2006, 02:58 PM

all it takes is some bad detonation to occur ONCE to cause major damage.

You could do major damage in the first 5 minutes on the road.

Aza

11-12-2006, 03:00 PM

yea i am abit confused about that would have to ask him again to no for sure. what kind of damage is cuased by running a stock ecu anyway. im pretty new when it comes to turbo's

Muzz

11-12-2006, 03:39 PM

yea i am abit confused about that would have to ask him again to no for sure. what kind of damage is cuased by running a stock ecu anyway. im pretty new when it comes to turbo's

Theres no point asking the seller, he'll tell you what u want to hear so u buy the car.
If you would like ill guess his responce for you "nar no detonation, the engine is in perfect condition, ive never driven it hard (who turbos a car if they dont drive hard), never run much boost etc."
Your better off talking to people who know there stuff and arnt trying to sell u stuff like saxman here!

edit: Sorry, i was confused there, u were refering to asking about how much psi he was running hey.
If theres no boost controller controling the 7psi wastegate, the cars running 7psi. im not sure, maby somone can clear this up for me, but ive got a feeling that even with a boost controler u cant run less boost that what the wastegate spring is rated at.:confused:

BlitZ

11-12-2006, 03:53 PM

yea i am abit confused about that would have to ask him again to no for sure. what kind of damage is cuased by running a stock ecu anyway. im pretty new when it comes to turbo's

I have seen a few D series turbos with STD ecus..

I wouldnt do it myself, but they all had Apexi VAFC connected to it..
what they do initially is street tune it with a trsuted air/fuel monitor to get it always safe.. then to the dyno..

Mind you they all ran fine and were quiet reliable.. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Dont shoot the messenger..

saxman

11-12-2006, 04:11 PM

with a wastegate set at 7 psi, he's running at least 7 psi(well, could be seeing a bit less if the boost pressure is being pulled directly from the compressor). With a boost controller, you can only increase the pressure, not decrease.

There are a few ways to run a standard ecu and have the motor at least work. Either a boost dependent fmu(which I'm guessing is what's on this vehicle), a vafc with injectors, or similar piggyback. An fmu is basically the absolute worst way to go, with a vafc being not too far behind. Neither can be done reliably. Yes, there are a lot of people out there with vafcs that run, but they never last, and are a bit part of the reason why a lot of people assume that a turbo honda can not be reliable.

The fact that it's been mentioned that there are larger injectors available, but not on the vehicle, would suggest to me a vafc is not in use. Pretty much the only way to get away with running stock injectors on a 7 psi set up(or really about any psi over 1-2), is to run an fmu. These are crap, and I would never, ever trust a vehicle that's been ran on one of these. If I was in the market for a turbo honda, and opened the hood to take a look, and saw an fmu being used, I would thank the seller for his time, while holding back laughter, and drive away.

shecomb

11-12-2006, 08:03 PM

i cant believe the car is running with the standard ECU. There are MAP sensors to put the car into limp mode if it sees positive pressure at the manifold. You should see those bloody chack valves hangin everywhere is its a stock ecu and nothing else is involved.

ALLMTR996

11-12-2006, 08:47 PM

Aza

12-12-2006, 08:10 AM

south east qld area.

so are u saying this car cant be saved even if i put a new ecu on it right away. as i said the car runs smooth and sounds very healthy, runs healthy, nothing seems to be wrong with how it runs at all.

if i were to buy the car what would i have to get checked to make sure running it this way hasnt damaged the engine yet? would a simply mechanical check be enough?

JasonGilholme

12-12-2006, 08:13 AM

compression test would be a start.

saxman

12-12-2006, 01:00 PM

you'd at very least want to do a compression test and a leak down test to tell you if any major damage has been done.

Honestly though, I'd just avoid the car. If this has been done so poorly, what else has been done with similar care?

Stoosh

12-12-2006, 01:22 PM

if your getting a check on the car i highly recommend this inspection company!

http://stateroads.com.au/mech.html

Aza

13-12-2006, 08:36 AM

the conversion itsellf and the workman ship that has been done with it is VERY well done, the workman ship is top notch (i no good workman ship when i see it, i am a mechanical engineer after all), the conversion was done by a mechanic and not by the guy and has been serviced regularly. i would say the reason would be that at the time he didnt have the money fr the ecu. but as far as the rest of the car it has been done very well, its very clean and have seen this with my own eyes. but like i said i wont by it unless i know that the engine is still in good condition. and if it is i will get it and put a new ecu on it straight away and get it tuned....

i didnt think this was such a big deal as i said i know a few running with standard ecu's. hmmmm still got alot to learn about rice beaters i think, even though i have owned one for abit now, never really got to into the engine side :D learning curve coming up

Muzz

13-12-2006, 09:57 AM

if your getting a check on the car i highly recommend this inspection company!

http://stateroads.com.au/mech.html
definatly get these guys to check the car out for you, there vechice check is one of the most comprehensive ive come across. they come to you aswell. It would be a great benifit to you, good find stoosh:thumbsup:

Aza

13-12-2006, 11:57 AM

thanks sounds like the way to go, if there is something wrong with it i hope they find it. and thanks for the info on the ecu through pm. much helps guys :)

hinezz

15-12-2006, 04:12 PM

get it checked b4 u buy it...it cud jst cost u an engine..