Advantages of Splits?

[wlan-11g]

Hi, I'm deciding whether to go and install components or just get some high quality coaxials? What are the advantages of having splits apart from being able to mount the tweeter spearate from the mid-basses?

Right now, i've got no front speakers and rear 6.5in's and a 12' sub. My amplifier has an inbuilt cross-over network so i'm running the 6.5's on a separate channel in high pass mode to the 12" (which is in LP mode for obvious reasons). It sounds pretty good at the moment so all i need is something up front to finish it off.

What do you guys recommend?

[Mr_will]

What are the advantages of having splits apart from being able to mount the tweeter spearate from the mid-basses?




that is the entire advantage of splits - tweeters are entirely opposite to subs, in that their position is extremely important. with a sub, its very hard for your ears to determine if its in front or behind you, or even if it is to your left or right. by having the tweeters pointing (roughyl) towards your face you are going to notice much greater clarity in the high end.

[vividjazz]

Your far more restricted in the placement of midbass by space and vehicle design. Coaxials mean you've then eliminated any chance of overcoming that restriction through optimal placement of your tweeters. Its all about staging. Front and centre. To your ears all the sound comes from where the highs are positioned. Thats why it doesn't matter where the sub is in relation to the front stage as it will appear to come from wherever the highs are anyway.

Manufacturers also make much higher quality splits in their range than coaxials.

[solitz]

yeah splits have better sound staging and the fact is that your in the front of the car driving...why have the sound at the back?

depending on your amp currently (assuming u have a 4 channel)... get the splits and place the midbasses in the stock position (might need MDF spacers..depending on size) and tweeters roughly at ear level then amp them with channel's 1&2, channels 3&4 bridged for the sub and the H/U can do the rear fill with your current coaxials + sound deadening FTW!!!

brands to look for depends on ur budget i guess...entry to mid level would be like a pioneer, JBL, jaycar (they arnt too bad but good on the hip pocket =D) but id look for brands like focal, boston or rainbow just for the quality.

[shinji112]

im thinking about gettin a pair of Alpine Type S splits.. but i already got a monoblock in the back powering my Type S sub.. if i get the splits, it would be a huge pain in the arse to put in a 2nd amp (not sure where to put it exactly) and then wire it up through the doors.. might run them off the HU for a while

[DSNTGR8]

fact is that your in the front of the car driving...why have the sound at the back?



couldnt have put it better myself!!!!

[mrwillz]

^ exactly wot i did
focals for front
and honda stocks for the rear wif sub

splits enable u to giv u a more wider choice for mounting , not only that, sound prefernce as well.
where tweeters are placed make a difference to the overal front stage

[GIPONU]

Is.. the amp meant to get pretty/really/quite hot when using it in the boot? cos either mine is.. or my hand was cold and the amp was warm..lol

[mrwillz]

yes amp gets hot

[wlan-11g]

Alrgiht thanks for the kind advice, so I assume the difference between co-axials and more expensive splits is night/day? I'm planning to get Alpline Type-R splits. Anyone have any opinion on these?

[solitz]

alpine type r splits are ok...but in the same prace range you can get into the focal V1's or rainbow and hertz entry level splits..and they will sound more nicer and more of a musical tone =D...once again go and have a demo listen at a store coz u need to hear what ur ears like!

[Mr_will]

Alrgiht thanks for the kind advice, so I assume the difference between co-axials and more expensive splits is night/day?

yep, sure is

[JaCe]

Don't underestimate amping rear speakers... I thought that rear speakers might as well be left stock, but after riding in my cousin's car (MBQ Ref up front, JL splits in back), it really does make a huge difference when you have music coming in from all around you in a small car.

[zorrt]

What are the advantages of having splits apart from being able to mount the tweeter spearate from the mid-basses?

Advantage of splits is clarity, mounting is separately is not an advantage, its just a design. Your tweeters should always sit close to your mid range for better sound stage. Why have your tweeters blasting off only to hear you mid a while later?

Also if you already have rear speakers theres no reason to remove them. Sound coming from all around does sound better than just sound coming from the front. But some people prefer not to spend too much so they ignore filling the rear since its not too important.

[4thGenExi]

Advantage of splits is clarity, mounting is separately is not an advantage, its just a design. Your tweeters should always sit close to your mid range for better sound stage. Why have your tweeters blasting off only to hear you mid a while later?

Not true.

Entirely possible to achieve good results with tweets high, woofers low, simply adjust the crossover slope to compensate. The very best cars in competition usually have custom A piller mounts for the tweeters and the midbass woofers in either stock door locations or kick panels.


Sound coming from all around does sound better than just sound coming from the front.

Not true.

By all means use rear fill but dont run it the same volume as your fronts. Turn them right down. The idea of rear speakers is to give a bit of ambience, all the action and soundstaging characteristics should be in front of you. Would you go to U2 concert and listen to them with your back turned?

[Mr_will]

Advantage of splits is clarity, mounting is separately is not an advantage, its just a design. Your tweeters should always sit close to your mid range for better sound stage. Why have your tweeters blasting off only to hear you mid a while later?

Also if you already have rear speakers theres no reason to remove them. Sound coming from all around does sound better than just sound coming from the front. But some people prefer not to spend too much so they ignore filling the rear since its not too important.

not really true at all. higher frequencies are more directional than lows, so the tweeters are the most important things to mount facing towards your ear. ideally, youd have the midrange at ear level too, but this simply isnt practical in most cars. having tweeters down near your feet will mean that you hear very little top end.

as far as having mids 'arriving later', this isnt really a concern with the distances we're talking about, usually <1m.

as for rear speakers, id rather have high quality fronts and no rears, than average quality in both.

imo, getting good front splits, then waiting till you can afford good rear splits is the way to go

[teaseR]

i wouldnt recommend alpine speakers as they are generally design for looks nowadays. however, they are one of the best in HU
save up for some quality speakers and hook them up. dont go into the shop and pick the ones off the sound board which sounds good. they generally sound really awesome as boards are design for the speakers. get well known brands such as focals, dynaudio, morel etc...

[Geekstar]

I'm running 6.5" DLS ult pro splits powered by a DLS RA30 amp which also powers my DLS 12inch magnisium sub. It sounds very good compared to my precious stock speakers(obviously). But yeah i was gonna get back speakers and all, but the guys at cartoys recomended good front splits and a sub in the back would do fine. And it sure sounds mighty fine. =)

[wlan-11g]

Hey Geekster, I'm from Adelaide too! What car do you drive? I have to come check out your car and listen to your system sometime!!! I live near car toys actually

[4thGenExi]

I'm running 6.5" DLS ult pro splits powered by a DLS RA30 amp which also powers my DLS 12inch magnisium sub. It sounds very good compared to my precious stock speakers(obviously). But yeah i was gonna get back speakers and all, but the guys at cartoys recomended good front splits and a sub in the back would do fine. And it sure sounds mighty fine. =)

Decent gear there. DLS arent bad but sound a little bit cold for my liking. Definately a premium brand though

[Geekstar]

LOL you serious, yeah sure you can come and listen im usually at the aquatic centre gym. My system aint at it's full potential yet, coz i just recently got it, had to let the splits and sub run in abit before the amp could be set to full power. But yeah gonna go cartoys like after newyears to get that done. Then its doof doof doof lol.

[JaCe]

as for rear speakers, id rather have high quality fronts and no rears, than average quality in both.

imo, getting good front splits, then waiting till you can afford good rear splits is the way to go

I'm planning on putting rear splits in soon (see my other thread) but the only thing which concerns me is whether or not it'll work well. I'm scared that if I have say.. RF splits in the back, in typical RF fashion, the tweeters will be very shrill and might make the music painful. I also know that since I'm planning on running them off the same channels as the front in my amp, I can't turn them down either (they'll be same volume as front) which means I need them to be less sensitive than my MBQ splits up front.

Can you help me think of an easy solution? I usually buy from this store and they have a sale on after Xmas- http://www.lifestylestore.com.au/PDF/End%20of%20Year%20Car%20Audio%20Ad.pdf . From experience, all prices are negotiable... but I was also looking at the RF 6x9s (not sure how they'd fit in the rear of my 06 Civic) because at least this way I won't need to mount the tweeters anywhere? I remember my cousin's rear tweeters looked somewhat out of place sticking up out of nowhere.

*SORRY FOR HIJACKING UR THREAD!*

[zorrt]

Entirely possible to achieve good results with tweets high, woofers low, simply adjust the crossover slope to compensate. The very best cars in competition usually have custom A piller mounts for the tweeters and the midbass woofers in either stock door locations or kick panels.

By all means use rear fill but dont run it the same volume as your fronts. Turn them right down. The idea of rear speakers is to give a bit of ambience, all the action and soundstaging characteristics should be in front of you. Would you go to U2 concert and listen to them with your back turned?

You realise all you're doing is playing with settings so sound comes from same location right? I was saying optimal location, not the most practical location. You cant fit all those speakers and tweeters on your kick panel now can you.

No offense but sounds like youre arguing for no reason. Surround is always better. Your U2 argument is silly, is turning your back on a concert surround now? You should read the things you quoted before saying NOT TRUE everywhere. You seem to be thinking surround means filling in the rear only? :confused: :confused: Remember, I also said "But some people prefer not to spend too much so they ignore filling the rear since its not too important." Note the not too important part son.


higher frequencies are more directional than lows

Thats true but by front setup I'd assume people are talkin about midrange not sub range.



so the tweeters are the most important things to mount facing towards your ear. ideally, youd have the midrange at ear level too, but this simply isnt practical in most cars. having tweeters down near your feet will mean that you hear very little top end.

I didnt mention position of speakers on your car, only position of speakers relative to each other. Also, reason why people place place mid and tweeters no kick panel is because your cant fit mid range up high without custom moulding. Once you turn up the volume, mid + tweeter on kick panel > mid at kick panel + tweeterup high. Try it, 1m does make a difference. Sound travel differently dependin on location, ur mid will be at your feet bouncing around, your tweeters will be just blasting off, theres a delay there.

Guys, everything can be adjusted once speakers are set up, but remember these are settings on extra or expensive equipment, I was merely stating optimal locations WITHOUT the need of too much extra adjustments or money. By adjusting all you are doing is playing with settings to acheive a better result based on your setup which of course works as thats what those equipement are designed for, compensating.

[vividjazz]

How is the same 2 channel (stereo) signal coming out of 2 sets of speakers surround sound. I thought surround sound meant a different signal comes out of different speakers?

[JaCe]

How is the same 2 channel (stereo) signal coming out of 2 sets of speakers surround sound. I thought surround sound meant a different signal comes out of different speakers?

I think in this context, 'surround' is used to refer to audio coming from all around you (ie. surrounding you).

[tune2look]

coaxial seperates frequency with a small resister... not enough.
good splits comes with good network(crossover).
tuning existing network will give you awsome sounds.(replacing some components inside to a better ones...)
The actual sound signal goes to the network and it distributes original sound signal into different frequency band.
usually high end components will have very precise network which will provide best frequency bands for its speakers capability.

And one more thing...
placing tweeter and mid in different position is not what splits are all about.
if the sound are produced at its optimal frequency, and as long as its not placed in covered areas, it will produce great sound even mid and high are placed right next to each other....

Please correct me if I'm wrong....

[Mr_will]

And one more thing...
placing tweeter and mid in different position is not what splits are all about.
if the sound are produced at its optimal frequency, and as long as its not placed in covered areas, it will produce great sound even mid and high are placed right next to each other....

Please correct me if I'm wrong....


in fact, separating tweeter and mid is what splits are all about. the higher the frequency, the more directional the sound - for example placement of subs in home theater systems isnt crucial because its hard for our ears to identify where low end sounds are coming from. however tweeters must point towards our ears, as much as possible. youll notice in high end home stereo systems the tweeters and mids are still separated, but not to the same extent as in a car.

i dont quite understand what you mean by the 'sound are produced at its optimal frequency' - the frequency of the sounds doesnt change, the only thing that changes is where the signal is sent - to the tweeter/mid/sub

[Fhrx]

Now I realise I'm a little late to this thread but on the subject of staging (in relation to splits and co-axials), we actually have a tutorial on our website if people are interested.

It is here (http://www.fastfoursforumscarclub.com/temp/fhrxstudios/faq.asp#12). :)

[tune2look]

Crossover sends signals to speakers which is filtered so that each speakers receive only its best frequancy.
Tweeter dont need deep bass, its filtered out....
That all I meant.
Apologies, its so hard to express in second language....:(

[XB-16-AX]

if you want some serious component systems, and a good value for money, try MB Quartz they are excellent - ive had mine for 2-3yrs and still sound crystal clear...dont even need an amp!! i matched this up with my Rockford Fosgate 6x9 at the rear, and i dont even need a sub ...

all crystal clear hi definition sounds... of course your head unit has to at least be decent to get the crystality u want!

my 2 cents!