Strut Bar or Sway Bar

[sze5]

To all experience drivers,

Does anybody know's the difference between Strut Bar or Sway Bar? Does a sway bar or a strut bar allows your vehicle to perform better on cornering?

Cheers,
dAn

[gatecrasher]

From what little I know, a rear sway bar improves cornering as it reduces understeer. A rear Strut bar i believe is not as effective. I'm sure someone else here can explain how it works. :)

[[[d a n n y]]]

sway baR. first mate...

[McChook]

Rear sway bar is the single biggest improvement you can make on a FWD car

[EG_2_TEG]

i'd say a rear strut bar would only make a difference if you used your car for track use

[Nuttz]

Sway bar = peice of solid metal tubing which connects suspension on left side of car to the other side from below the car.

Strut bar = peice of metal tubing (usualy hollow) which connects the suspension tops usually at the strut towers from left side to the right.

sway bar very effective where the strut doesnt do much.

[speedracr]

A strut brace bolts between the strut braces. Some front strut braces bolt to a third point, namely the firewall. The purpose is to reduce chassis flex.

A sway bar is situated underneath the car and acts as a resistance to body-roll. The thicker the swaybar, the stiffer it is.

*Both* front and rear swaybars are important to improve handling.

For FWDs, I would first upgrade the springs and shocks and then fit front and rear swaybars. The thickness to choose depends on the car and the car's intended purpose. After that, a castor increase makes a good mod as well

[speedracr]

Sway bar = peice of solid metal tubing which connects suspension on left side of car to the other side from below the car.

Strut bar = peice of metal tubing (usualy hollow) which connects the suspension tops usually at the strut towers from left side to the right.

sway bar very effective where the strut doesnt do much.

Sway bars can be hollow as well. ITR and S2K swaybars, for example, are hollow.

[McChook]

For FWDs, I would first upgrade the springs and shocks and then fit front and rear swaybars. The thickness to choose depends on the car and the car's intended purpose. After that, a castor increase makes a good mod as well

Rear bar first. We have always done it that way (esp since dad worked for whiteline).
There is no one single modification that imroves the handling. It is also one of the cheapest modifications.

[Nuttz]

Sway bar = peice of solid metal tubing which connects suspension on left side of car to the other side from below the car.

Strut bar = peice of metal tubing (usualy hollow) which connects the suspension tops usually at the strut towers from left side to the right.

sway bar very effective where the strut doesnt do much.

Sway bars can be hollow as well. ITR and S2K swaybars, for example, are hollow.


ohh ok :P

[SIKCVC]

is it worth getting a castor kit and rear swaybar? and just use stock shocks and simple lowering springs?

[Nuttz]

get the sway bar for sure !!!
changing just the springs is not the best thing to do but it works. lowers centre of gravity. but shock rate and spring rate will be unmatched and handling wouldn't be the BEST

[Tofu]

just to throw things into the mix
also i'd advise to get a rear tie bar too...
i would go, rear sway, then rear tie, then rear strut brace

[**Ghost**]

..... whats Rear Tie Bar?

and wots that thing that runs across the top my engine? thats the Front STRUT bar righttt?

[Tofu]

..... whats Rear Tie Bar?

and wots that thing that runs across the top my engine? thats the Front STRUT bar righttt?

that thing running across the engine is the front strut bar

rear tie bar (or lower arm bars) are these shiny things
http://www.centra-tech.com/IMG_0025.jpg

[SIKCVC]

I was thinking about some koni sports, adjustable shocks... I should probs update my shocks and i figured it would be a good investment. especially since they are ride high adjustable as well... to a small extent.

[Weq]

I just id front and rear sways on my car. Fantastic mod, quite easy to install and handling is magic after it. hardly any body roll -- due to my stock suspension!

[**Ghost**]

ahhhhhh i get it now... : )

[speedracr]

For FWDs, I would first upgrade the springs and shocks and then fit front and rear swaybars. The thickness to choose depends on the car and the car's intended purpose. After that, a castor increase makes a good mod as well

Rear bar first. We have always done it that way (esp since dad worked for whiteline).
There is no one single modification that imroves the handling. It is also one of the cheapest modifications.

I'm a strong believer in using BOTH front and rear swaybars. For example, I think bolting on a 22mm rear swaybar onto a CXi (that doesn't have a front swaybar) would not be the best of modifications. I'd upgrade the front swaybar to 26mm in that scenario as well.

[CIV73C]

i got my eg5 wif front and rear aftermarket sway bars!!

im not sure how different my car handles to a stock civic..
but im happy wif how my car handles now

gonna find a stock civic to drive oneday to c how diff it feels

[joneblaze]

For FWDs, I would first upgrade the springs and shocks and then fit front and rear swaybars. The thickness to choose depends on the car and the car's intended purpose. After that, a castor increase makes a good mod as well

Rear bar first. We have always done it that way (esp since dad worked for whiteline).
There is no one single modification that imroves the handling. It is also one of the cheapest modifications.

I'm a strong believer in using BOTH front and rear swaybars. For example, I think bolting on a 22mm rear swaybar onto a CXi (that doesn't have a front swaybar) would not be the best of modifications. I'd upgrade the front swaybar to 26mm in that scenario as well.

Charles, by upgrading the front to 26mm and rear 22mm, wouldn't that not adhere to the theory of having a stiffer/thicker swaybar on the rear on FWD cars for better handling? Eg. less understeer/more oversteer? :roll: I was under the impression that was why most Honda drivers upgrade the rear bar first and leave the front stock.


Jon

[wynode]

Generally you have a bigger bar at the front as opposed to the rear.

[TOYOL]

Generally you have a bigger bar at the front as opposed to the rear.

interesting....
i am running 22mm on both front and rear.

[Weq]

24mm front , 22mm rear hear..
i defaintly felt alot less body roll with the front as opposed to uust the rear, but i also have a tendancy to netural/understeeer now..
as opposed to oversteer with the rear only

[ian]

okay...i've got a civic vtir coupe.......and i've read all the replies.......i'm wanting to get a rear sway bar first i think.
where can i get one?
what's a good brand?
what size should i be getting?
should i get a front sway bar aswell?

after that ride on the twisties last night, i felt myself rolling side to side on every corner.............i nearly sh*t my pants!..........hehehe

[speedracr]

FWD cars will always have a tendency towards understeer. I think there is a lot of confusion over this whole rear swaybar thing. Your first and foremost priority should be to achieve a good balance for your car. Making a FWD oversteer isn’t the key to going fast around a circuit.
Aim for these things: lower the centre of gravity (whilst retaining sufficient travel), reduce body roll, reduce chassis flex, improve turn-in, achieve near neutral balance on the apex.

On my old Civic I put on a 24mm front swaybar and a 22mm rear swaybar. I wasn’t very happy with this setup because IMO the front swaybar was too small. On the street it was fine, even on OPH. But when I pushed it to the limit on the track I didn’t like the setup. While the car certainly had a bias towards the rear, I was still working the outside front tyre extremely hard.

My point was that there are a few out there who bolt up massive rear swaybars, thinking that their handling has magically improved. There are many different sizes you can fit to the rear of an EG, DC2 or EK, including 18mm, 20mm, 22mm and so on. I don’t have the exact figure in my head, but I believe increasing a mm in diameter nearly doubles the stiffness.

Joneblaze: It really depends on which car you are talking about. Those with a DC2Rs will often leave the standard front swaybar and only upgrade the rear. This is fine as the front swaybar is adequate. But this isn’t applicable to those with Civic CXis or GLis, as upgrading the rear to a very large bar will throw the bias too much to the rear.

IAN: I believe EK4s come standard with 26mm swaybars at the front. Double check and if this is the case then you can get a larger rear sway. I’d go with the Whiteline rear swaybar. Although it is a solid (read: heavy) bar, they have a great kit that comes with endlinks, swaybar itself, lower tie-bar and subframe brace. Get a 22mm adjustable one.

[ian]

FWD cars will always have a tendency towards understeer. I think there is a lot of confusion over this whole rear swaybar thing. Your first and foremost priority should be to achieve a good balance for your car. Making a FWD oversteer isn’t the key to going fast around a circuit.
Aim for these things: lower the centre of gravity (whilst retaining sufficient travel), reduce body roll, reduce chassis flex, improve turn-in, achieve near neutral balance on the apex.

On my old Civic I put on a 24mm front swaybar and a 22mm rear swaybar. I wasn’t very happy with this setup because IMO the front swaybar was too small. On the street it was fine, even on OPH. But when I pushed it to the limit on the track I didn’t like the setup. While the car certainly had a bias towards the rear, I was still working the outside front tyre extremely hard.

My point was that there are a few out there who bolt up massive rear swaybars, thinking that their handling has magically improved. There are many different sizes you can fit to the rear of an EG, DC2 or EK, including 18mm, 20mm, 22mm and so on. I don’t have the exact figure in my head, but I believe increasing a mm in diameter nearly doubles the stiffness.

Joneblaze: It really depends on which car you are talking about. Those with a DC2Rs will often leave the standard front swaybar and only upgrade the rear. This is fine as the front swaybar is adequate. But this isn’t applicable to those with Civic CXis or GLis, as upgrading the rear to a very large bar will throw the bias too much to the rear.

IAN: I believe EK4s come standard with 26mm swaybars at the front. Double check and if this is the case then you can get a larger rear sway. I’d go with the Whiteline rear swaybar. Although it is a solid (read: heavy) bar, they have a great kit that comes with endlinks, swaybar itself, lower tie-bar and subframe brace. Get a 22mm adjustable one.
thanks. advice taken, greatly appreciated.
although, mine is an EM1, is there much difference between that and the EK4?
either way i'll be chatting to Whiteline for a 22mm adjustable sway bar.

[speedracr]

Speak to Wojtek (pronounced voi-tek) at Whiteline. He knows plenty about Hondas. Tell him the intentions for your car (street, street/track, track) as well as the type of tyres you will run (eg: r-compound) and he can point you in the right direction in terms of your car's suspension and alignment.

[[twins]vtec]

so im assuming the dc2 vti-r comes with 26mm front strut bar as well ?

[joneblaze]

The measurements in mm size refer to the SWAY/Anti Roll bars on a car. A strut bar/chassis brace is a different handling item (more info can be found with a quick search). The DC VTiRs and GSi's come with a 14mm rear sway bar, as to the front sway size I am unsure. Anyone?

[[twins]vtec]

o shit thats rite
i forgot u guys were refering to sway bars
my bad

[Taxi-R]

i'm astounded to not hear any1 complain abt upgrading their swaybars on their civics only to find that it ripped a hole in the subframe. many ppl experience this in the states and hence they spend BIG dollars (i.e.$500+) on a swaybar kit (i.e. comptech sway/tie combo) just to try and ensure this doesn't happen to them...
that's the only reason i've been putting my swaybar purchasing intentions off for so long...i've already got the whiteline rear tie...the only thing is that Wojtek (the whiteline dude) has an EK4 (made in japan) and i'm wondering whether the subframe he has is made of the same material as the subframes for EM1s. anybody know???

because of the crappy (well overstated but u know what i mean) build quality in the EM1s, it won't surprise me if the EM1 subframe is not as strong as the made in jp EK4s...

the EM1 has like a 24 or 26mm front sway and like a 14 or 16mm rear sway. whiteline has a chart on the approx amt of "stifferness" u should get from one size to another.

i have always been thinking maybe to get the adjustable one (it can adjust between 18-22mm) and set it at 20mm so it's not too hard since ppl in the states get 22-24mm ones...

any1 with an EM1 changed their rear sway yet?? how long u had it on for? how do u drive ur car?? aggressive? track? or just rip ard the occassional corner?

[speedracr]

vtec]so im assuming the dc2 vti-r comes with 26mm front strut bar as well ?

nope.. the ITR comes with a 24mm swaybar.. not sure what yours has but should be smaller than this

[speedracr]

i'm astounded to not hear any1 complain abt upgrading their swaybars on their civics only to find that it ripped a hole in the subframe. many ppl experience this in the states and hence they spend BIG dollars (i.e.$500+) on a swaybar kit (i.e. comptech sway/tie combo) just to try and ensure this doesn't happen to them...
that's the only reason i've been putting my swaybar purchasing intentions off for so long...i've already got the whiteline rear tie...the only thing is that Wojtek (the whiteline dude) has an EK4 (made in japan) and i'm wondering whether the subframe he has is made of the same material as the subframes for EM1s. anybody know???

because of the crappy (well overstated but u know what i mean) build quality in the EM1s, it won't surprise me if the EM1 subframe is not as strong as the made in jp EK4s...

the EM1 has like a 24 or 26mm front sway and like a 14 or 16mm rear sway. whiteline has a chart on the approx amt of "stifferness" u should get from one size to another.

i have always been thinking maybe to get the adjustable one (it can adjust between 18-22mm) and set it at 20mm so it's not too hard since ppl in the states get 22-24mm ones...

any1 with an EM1 changed their rear sway yet?? how long u had it on for? how do u drive ur car?? aggressive? track? or just rip ard the occassional corner?

the '00 cxi was built in the States. I had the whiteline rear swaybar/tie bar/subframe bracket on it and had no problems. I was also concerned with tearing the subframe on a ripple strip or driveway, but i had no problems whatsoever. Put it this way, I was lifting the inside rear wheel two feet off the ground on steep driveways and never had any issues. And i was using a 22mm swaybar too.

[joneblaze]

Whiteline bracket = BSQ/Beaks style kit?
Is that what you have Gingangooly?

[McChook]

i'm astounded to not hear any1 complain abt upgrading their swaybars on their civics only to find that it ripped a hole in the subframe. many ppl experience this in the states and hence they spend BIG dollars (i.e.$500+) on a swaybar kit (i.e. comptech sway/tie combo) just to try and ensure this doesn't happen to them...
that's the only reason i've been putting my swaybar purchasing intentions off for so long...i've already got the whiteline rear tie...the only thing is that Wojtek (the whiteline dude) has an EK4 (made in japan) and i'm wondering whether the subframe he has is made of the same material as the subframes for EM1s. anybody know???

because of the crappy (well overstated but u know what i mean) build quality in the EM1s, it won't surprise me if the EM1 subframe is not as strong as the made in jp EK4s...

the EM1 has like a 24 or 26mm front sway and like a 14 or 16mm rear sway. whiteline has a chart on the approx amt of "stifferness" u should get from one size to another.

i have always been thinking maybe to get the adjustable one (it can adjust between 18-22mm) and set it at 20mm so it's not too hard since ppl in the states get 22-24mm ones...

any1 with an EM1 changed their rear sway yet?? how long u had it on for? how do u drive ur car?? aggressive? track? or just rip ard the occassional corner?

Just talk to Wedge. He'll tell you the truth, he is an honest guy, knows exactly what he is talking about

[ian]

.........should i be alarmed with what Taxi-R wrote about EM1's.

is this true? anyone else heard of this thing happening?

[TOYOL]

i'm astounded to not hear any1 complain abt upgrading their swaybars on their civics only to find that it ripped a hole in the subframe. many ppl experience this in the states and hence they spend BIG dollars (i.e.$500+) on a swaybar kit (i.e. comptech sway/tie combo) just to try and ensure this doesn't happen to them...
that's the only reason i've been putting my swaybar purchasing intentions off for so long...i've already got the whiteline rear tie...the only thing is that Wojtek (the whiteline dude) has an EK4 (made in japan) and i'm wondering whether the subframe he has is made of the same material as the subframes for EM1s. anybody know???

because of the crappy (well overstated but u know what i mean) build quality in the EM1s, it won't surprise me if the EM1 subframe is not as strong as the made in jp EK4s...

the EM1 has like a 24 or 26mm front sway and like a 14 or 16mm rear sway. whiteline has a chart on the approx amt of "stifferness" u should get from one size to another.

i have always been thinking maybe to get the adjustable one (it can adjust between 18-22mm) and set it at 20mm so it's not too hard since ppl in the states get 22-24mm ones...

any1 with an EM1 changed their rear sway yet?? how long u had it on for? how do u drive ur car?? aggressive? track? or just rip ard the occassional corner?

I drive a ej coupe which i believe uses the same chassis as the em1. I use a adjustable 22mm rear and the lower tie bar too, just in case. So far i have had no problems at all.

[ian]

where'd you get that fitted TOYOL? and how long have you had it?

[TOYOL]

where'd you get that fitted TOYOL? and how long have you had it?
I have had it for 2 months now. it makes a huge differance in the handling. Especially when my coupe didnt have a rear sway bar.
Had it fitted at computer line in preston. The blokes there over charge and dont know what a tie bar is. I ordered a swaybar and a tie bar from them, only to receive a sway bar only. They said they didnt know what a lower tie bar was. When they ordered it latter i had to pay the whole workmanship labour all over again. They even ****ed up fixing my rear camber kit. They droped a bolt into my chassis and had to drill a hole to get it out. Get it done at suspension city. The guys there know what they are doing. But they dont carry whiteline, so you will have to outsource them yourself. There is a guy on the forum which gives really good prices. Do a search.

[ian]

where'd you get that fitted TOYOL? and how long have you had it?
I have had it for 2 months now. it makes a huge differance in the handling. Especially when my coupe didnt have a rear sway bar.
Had it fitted at computer line in preston. The blokes there over charge and dont know what a tie bar is. I ordered a swaybar and a tie bar from them, only to receive a sway bar only. They said they didnt know what a lower tie bar was. When they ordered it latter i had to pay the whole workmanship labour all over again. They even ****ed up fixing my rear camber kit. They droped a bolt into my chassis and had to drill a hole to get it out. Get it done at suspension city. The guys there know what they are doing. But they dont carry whiteline, so you will have to outsource them yourself. There is a guy on the forum which gives really good prices. Do a search.thanks.

[sze5]

IAN: I believe EK4s come standard with 26mm swaybars at the front. Double check and if this is the case then you can get a larger rear sway. I’d go with the Whiteline rear swaybar. Although it is a solid (read: heavy) bar, they have a great kit that comes with endlinks, swaybar itself, lower tie-bar and subframe brace. Get a 22mm adjustable one.

I have an 97 Civic Coupe VTI, so it comes with a stock 26mm front swaybar?

[TOYOL]

Nope, its a 22mm.

[SIKCVC]

what would be the better value for $$$ on an EG hatch? the non adjustable rear sway from whiteline or the heavy duty adjustable?

I'm thinking in the long run the heavy duty will perform much better.

[mo]

it depends what you do with your car lol...and not necessary will you benefit from an adjustable one either.

[SIKCVC]

well I'm slowly setting it up for track usage, looking at coil overs fairly soon too.