Who needs JDM when you've got...

[ProECU]

Deleted

OH doesn't deserve a thread of this calibre.

[A.G.System]

could you please give me a run down on the best parts to get (bang for buck) and what power ATW can I expect?

Not going to sound like an old hack here but seriously dude thats like asking how long is a piece of string!

Pro ECU i wait with baited breath and if you need a hand with anything bro just give me a holler.

[jpg29]

OK my orig. Q on top without the 'how much power ATW' statement...

[Slow96GSR]

Designing motors for others with details isn't free these days. It can take days out of a builders week and with the average design fee of $50 an hour here. I would look in to some stuff yourself. I wish people would do just a little bit of research on their car and come in knowing just a little more than they did a few days earlier. Good luck ProECU, it's gonna be a fun build.

Edit:
What are you planning on bearings, oil, and cooling? I would also love to see some coatings on that bad boy. At the very least I would use the Calico Bearings. Still gonna use the stock crank I see. Well hopefully this will be a monster and make it in to the most power book. Looking forward to it!

[Dxs]

going into a gen3 crx?

[Mikeyas]

Go the EF hatch... Still one of my favourite shapes and depending on function the longer wheelbase may come in handy ?

[egSi]

who needs it? exactly.

looking forward to this :thumbsup:

[SiReal]

nice, i think u should have a look at using the macro mode on your camera, makes close up shots nice and clear ;)

on your camera, its the little symbol the flower (usually)

[DLO01]

Good luck with it all Evan.

You've got the knowledge and the knowhow to make this a success. :thumbsup:

[Slow96GSR]

Drilling is what the poor people get. Cutting/grinding the material off is a little more time consuming as you have to do it little by little and most of these machines are a cnc style. They stop where they need material removed. Yes, I meant using the Calico coated bearings. It actually helps a lot. Also we have seen some really bad bearings come if with the coatings and the crank and rods we in perfect shape, only the bearings were bad. NASCAR uses these as well as IRL, so if it's good for 12krpm+, it's good for this! Full B-series bearing kit is $200 shipped and to your specs. Just E-mail Jerry and tell him Craig at Brooks racing told you about them. He'll help you out.

[Edgeauto]

Good luck with it evan, hopefully we can see it at the next dyno day:)

[Slow96GSR]

Just so you know I'm not Craig, that's my old boss and everyone there knows him. That's kind of how I get discounts.

[Slow96GSR]

Ya, it's like the only company I work with that I don't get dealer cost with. They like to keep costs low for everyone. It's hard to get a special discount. Like 90% of the race teams pay retail so since he was building motors, and still is, they gave him discounts due to the amount of parts and orders he put in.

[jpg29]

I'll be glued to this thread with great interest, as I'm new to Honda and have just got hold of a B16a civic EK hatch and feel the need to do some engine work.
yes I am 'noob' :o and apologies for any unwarranted queries that i may have and I will not post any 'bullshit', I will be very serious and proper, I have still to get used to this forums' etiquette.:angel: :zip:

[honda_b_blastn]

Goodluck with it all you cracker..your going to be a busy man now! trying to juggle this project along with your new pride and joy..baby evan..;)

[pwr2w8]

pro ecu good luck with the build, also what C/R pistons you got.

Im also in the build of a B16/B20 and ill be running 12.5:1 pistons with I beam rods.
Also i believe your in SA, there is a wizard there that PNP heads, he is as good as elias alaniz in the US if not better. i have seen a B16A head done that flow's 315cfm @ .500 valve lift

[Slow96GSR]

I know you know this ProECU but I wanted to share some of what we talked about before the "noobs" start asking "wtf?". If you are going to mic everything make sure you use the right size tools or measuring equipment. Hondas use GREEN Plastigage as the clearances are closer then a big block chevy. Red is too big and will give you false readings. There are many sizes so make sure you read the manual before investing in the wrong size tooling.

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Tools/plastigage.htm

All you need at any one time, and this is a little much:

http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/info/plastigage0.jpg

Place it on the mains and rods you wish to measure like this:
http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/info/plastigage1.jpg

http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/info/plastigage2.jpg

http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/info/plastigage_rodcap.jpg

Now you can use the paper cover to measure the squashed Plastigage:
http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/info/plastigage_rodjournal.jpg

Yes I stole these pics off some one elses site! I didn't have any materials here to use!!

[Edgeauto]

if you want once you have worked out what colour bearing you need PM me i and will see what i can get them for cuase RRP is something like $40 for a half shell:thumbdwn:

[ProECU]

if you want once you have worked out what colour bearing you need PM me i and will see what i can get them for cuase RRP is something like $40 for a half shell:thumbdwn:

Thanks!!

[TODA AU]

I hope it works out well for you.

Regarding machining,
Be sure to use a dummy head & caps fitted / torqued when it’s bored & honed. (Plateau hone)
(Sorry… I can’t offer advice on where to go as you’re in Adelaide – maybe Allen’s?)

Ps: Don’t chamfer the top of the bore either. (Some people do this)
Though it may aid in assembly, it will also reduce detonation resistance.
Keep it square & just take the sharp edge off with wet & dry (800) – do the same at the bottom of the bore also.

Cheers

Adrian

[Slow96GSR]

Any new pics or details?

[TODA AU]

LOL… we agree on something… Time for a beer eh?

Regarding torque plate,
We always use a torque plate when boring & honing any engine,
Rather than just being good practice to follow there is method to the madness.
Though the bores in a HONDA B-series engine block are floating,
they can distort a considerable amount when the main caps are fitted & torqued into place & the torque plate (dummy head) is fitted.
(Up to 4/100mm (0.0015”) on some engines)
As the clearance on our forged pistons is only 2~3/100mm (0.0008” to 0.0012”),
Though I’m not familiar with the clearances applicable to the pistons you’ve got,
In the end, it doesn’t really matter.
It just pays to be sure the bore is actually round when in its run condition.
To prepare the block for machining,
The main caps are fitted & torqued into place 1st (in sequence), followed by the torque plate.
(Fitted & torqued a if fitting a head including an old, clean head gasket)
We use factory bolts & torque specs to do this so the correct amount of thread is engaged & the block is stressed as it would be normally.

Regarding the crank,
A full knife edge & polish is a good thing for response,
Rather than going to town with polishing it though, it’s just as effective to coat the crank webs with an oil dispersant coating.
(Good for inside of block also)
The trouble with doing this sort of work is it can become horribly expensive.
When loads of material is removed, you’ve got balancing to consider…
+ shot penning & heat treatment
Knife edging, under size bearings, balancing & heat treatment is about as far as you’d go without becoming totally uneconomical.
If you’re going to go to town, a lightweight forged crank from Eagle can be a viable alternative.

[Slow96GSR]

LOL… we agree on something… Time for a beer eh?

Regarding torque plate,
We always use a torque plate when boring & honing any engine,
Rather than just being good practice to follow there is method to the madness.
Though the bores in a HONDA B-series engine block are floating,
they can distort a considerable amount when the main caps are fitted & torqued into place & the torque plate (dummy head) is fitted.
(Up to 4/100mm (0.0015”) on some engines)
As the clearance on our forged pistons is only 2~3/100mm (0.0008” to 0.0012”),
Though I’m not familiar with the clearances applicable to the pistons you’ve got,
In the end, it doesn’t really matter.
It just pays to be sure the bore is actually round when in its run condition.
To prepare the block for machining,
The main caps are fitted & torqued into place 1st (in sequence), followed by the torque plate.
(Fitted & torqued a if fitting a head including an old, clean head gasket)
We use factory bolts & torque specs to do this so the correct amount of thread is engaged & the block is stressed as it would be normally.

Regarding the crank,
A full knife edge & polish is a good thing for response,
Rather than going to town with polishing it though, it’s just as effective to coat the crank webs with an oil dispersant coating.
(Good for inside of block also)
The trouble with doing this sort of work is it can become horribly expensive.
When loads of material is removed, you’ve got balancing to consider…
+ shot penning & heat treatment
Knife edging, under size bearings, balancing & heat treatment is about as far as you’d go without becoming totally uneconomical.
If you’re going to go to town, a lightweight forged crank from Eagle can be a viable alternative.

We always torque plate every block we do, it’s just the right way to so stuff like Toda said. Also I’m glad to see someone there knows about the coatings! They can run quite a bit, especially if you do a whole motor. The crank was like $75USD but the block is about $250USD, but that includes the main caps too. My while motor and tranny have the coatings as you know and it was only about $3500USD to do it all and then some. I’m sure you know all the other tings to do like balancing and setup so I won’t get in to details there. I forgot about the X-mas holiday, but hurry up! Lol!

Crank with oil shedder:
http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/Coatings/Crank3.jpg

Inside of block with oil shedder:
http://www.strathlan.com/CMS/images/Coatings/coatingbottom.jpg

[Slow96GSR]

Lol ya 2-5 hp is nothing, but running 20-30% cooler isn't nothing either. Means you can put more in to the motor than you wanted to in the first place. Imagine running a smaller and lighter FMIC and staying as cool as the guy who doesn't have coatings and has to run a cooling sprayer, large FMIC, and less boost. 20-30% cooler is an awesome thing. Also the crank coating helps cut down windage which in it's own way adds power. And yes I know this is an N.A. setup! Spend the money on the crank, you can get by with out the rest, imho.

PS: looking at my motor still turns me on!! Ain't she sexay?!!

[panda[cRx]]

project looks promising ev

keep us posted :)

[ProECU]

Sneak Peek for the Mad-Dog fans...
Engine Management of Choice

enquiries to evan@proecu.com

[DLO01]

Whoa nice Ev. :cool:

[EfiOz]

Sneak Peek for the Mad-Dog fans...
Engine Management of Choice

Am I going crazy or are those axis labels back to front on the fuel maps? (RPM and MAP)

[EfiOz]

Ahh, I see. Nice looking gear.

[FlavzzTEGRA]

very nice Ev, any idea what sort of redline you will be aiming for? Do you have any direction in terms of street or track car?

[FlavzzTEGRA]

"insert Borat voice here" Verrry Niice!! 10k rpm would sound insane

I have an idea, sell me your turbo b16a to put in my teggie and then put this motor in your car. Sounds like a plan eh??

[Dxs]

still plan to do detailed write ups?

[Muzz]

mind me asking what cams your thinking of going with?
And i see your using oversised rods, to alter the rod/stroke ratio, how does that work, do the pistons have the pins higher up within the piston? or is the crank destroked and the bore increased????:confused: