Tools...

[Dylanamus]

I am having difficulty removing a number of nuts/bolts from my suspension assembly with a normal socket ratchet/breaker bar. I'm thinking about investing in an air compressor and air ratchet and I have a couple of questions:

First of all, is an air ratchet a good cost-effective choice? It seems the cost of getting a workshop to install front/rear sways and rear coilovers will cost more than buying the tools myself anyway.. in other words, is there a cheaper tool that will allow me to get these stubborn nuts off?

A few other questions:

1. What horse power should I settle for in the compressor and what torque output will suffice for the ratchet?

2. What brands do people recommend etc

3. Is there any reason to buy an air ratchet set that comes with sockets, or can I just use the normal sockets I already own?

4. How important is achieving the (workshop manual) recommended torque settings for each nut - and considering I don't have a torque wrench, what is the best way to go about this?

I guess you could say I'm a bit of a tool noob, but it's just from a lack of involvement - a few hints and tips will help me heaps. Cheers :thumbsup:

[EuroAccord13]

Have you tried spraying the nuts with lube and let it sit for a while before loosening it?..

Cheap tools = cause damage to you nuts and bolts + May cause bodily harm..


For certain parts on the suspension setup, the airgun will not be able to get in there...

[adammet04]

the manual does have torque settings for a reason.

one i can think of is that over tightening or under tightening may ..to some degree ruin the bolts (might snap off /come undone under load etc).. I think its a good idea to get as close to the recommended settings as possible.

i have a manual torque wrench at home its proabbly out by a bit, (as most manual ones are)

you should be able to pick up a torque wrench from autobarn for pretty cheep anyway..

[adammet04]

as long as your sockets match the air hose then i think you would be ok..
but i echo euroaccord13's sentiments in regards to tool quality...something else to think about is the getting the right tool for the job :)

[aaronng]

The sockets you use on an impact wrench (air or electric) are NOT the same as the sockets you use with your normal socket set. You need to get Impact socket sets. They are usually black in colour and much beefier than your normal socket.

Use the impact wrench only to loosen nuts and bolts. NEVER to tighten unless it is an adjustable one that is as accurate as a good torque wrench (there are none :))

[Dylanamus]

Have you tried spraying the nuts with lube and let it sit for a while before loosening it?..

Yes. Tried that, and tried adding a makeshift breaker bar to the ratchet handle...


For certain parts on the suspension setup, the airgun will not be able to get in there...

This is half the trouble... On the angles available to me for the nuts in question, minimal leverage is possible and the flex in the springs/bushings doesn't help either. I also have another obsticle - the head of the nut in quesiton is slightly burred and I don't seem to have a socket that fits it perfectly, so I'm limited to undoing the nut on the other end, which means lifting, rather than pushing downwards - and this introduces further complications, such as the springs compressing before maximum torque is achieved. I almost lifted the car off the mounts giving it a good go. :thumbdwn:

So if I can fit a ratchet in there, but can't get it undone, what tools are still on the list? Just the air ratchet? Is a torque wrench going to help me get this undone, or just provide a gauge for tightening them back up again to correct torque spefications?

[Dylanamus]

The sockets you use on an impact wrench (air or electric) are NOT the same as the sockets you use with your normal socket set. You need to get Impact socket sets. They are usually black in colour and much beefier than your normal socket.


Thanks for clarifying that for me.


Use the impact wrench only to loosen nuts and bolts. NEVER to tighten unless it is an adjustable one that is as accurate as a good torque wrench (there are none :))

So am I on-track in concluding that a more cost-effective alternative to buying an air ratchet is buying a decent impact wrench for loosening and a good torque wrench for tightening?

If I am correct, could someone please advise me what brands are worth buying?

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Rice_4_life]

snap on ftw :D, quality assured. or if u dont wanna spend the big buks SP air is also a well known brand. occasionally companies hav specials on every few months, i bought an impact gun and got a free set of impact sockets with it!

[skinnyboy]

Ingersol Rand Air Tools are worth a look at, ive got an IR rattle gun, adjustable torque settings too

[EG5[KRT]]

the more aussie brands are getting not too bad.. majority of the items have lifetime warranty now.brands like sidchrome,kingchrome,

international brands such as koken(my preferred brand), stahlwille,snap on,

like aaronng said.. the standard sockets are not to be used on impact guns..

on air rachets they are ok due to the low torque that they output..

some good air tool brands: shinano,ingersoll rand, SP,

usually for torque settings u should buy the suitable torque wrench for the job.. they each have diff levels of torque settings available on certain sizes.

good torque wrench brands: warren and brown,snap on,norbar

usually if you go to tradetools they are usually the cheapest place to get the tools.but remember to use the right tool for the right job.. usually with stuff that u need care with its probably better to spend the extra few dollars to get the better quality brand in that certain tool.

[Dylanamus]

Thanks for all your recommendations.

What tool is used to undo really stubborn nuts that are in awkward positions where large tools like drill style impact wrenches won't fit?

I don't have an air compressor, so it would be a rather large investment to get one for a single air tool that won't solve my problem because I can't fit it onto the nut.

[EG5[KRT]]

hm.. much leverage room ??

wat size bolt ?

usually i use a 3/8 breaker bar with the correct size socket on stuff that is a bit fiddly..

u mite wanna check which way the bolt undoes as well coz some bolts undo the other way..

[newmski]

Thanks for all your recommendations.

What tool is used to undo really stubborn nuts that are in awkward positions where large tools like drill style impact wrenches won't fit?

I don't have an air compressor, so it would be a rather large investment to get one for a single air tool that won't solve my problem because I can't fit it onto the nut.
i like to use my uber breaker bar aka a bit of thick hollow metal pipe about 6 foot long...leverage is ur friend.
and YES NEVER USE IMPAST WRENCH TO TIGHTEN NUTS/BOLTS. the bastards at the BP did and it took me a lot of effort to get undone...without stripping heads

[Dylanamus]

About 15cm leverage room... Well I usually determine the correct rotation to loosen a nut by using the "find the head of the nut" and "lefty loosey, righty tighty" method.

I might purchase a breaker bar (and a torque wrench; as a sign of faith haha) to start with and see how I go. I've just been using a bit of pipe around the ratchet handle - so I guess a bit of the shock is lost through surface transfer...

What is the best technique to use a breaker bar anyway?

[aaronng]

I notice that you are trying to loosen that nut using your ratchet. You shouldn't do that. Go straight to the breaker bar. The ratchet has a little play, so you won't get 100% of torque on the nut. Also, the socket that you are using has to be a perfect size. Is the nut metric or A/F? Also, use a socket that puts force on the flat faces of the nut, not on the edges. Most sockets like Sidchrome and Snap On apply force on the flat face of the nut, so you will be able to get even burred nuts off.

[Rice_4_life]

u can buy impact universal joints u noe and also impact extensions, just try and keep the universal joint as straight as possible.

[aaronng]

u can buy impact universal joints u noe and also impact extensions, just try and keep the universal joint as straight as possible.

Yeah, just use the universal joint for that split second to break the nut's grip and then use the ratchet or breaker bar.

[Dylanamus]

Thanks for the advice. The nut in question is 14mm and is now rather stripped. The only 6 point 14mm socket I found amongst my and my neighbours' tools was a 3/8 drive - and the 3/8 to 1/2 drive adapator twisted right off and left the socket blocked up! (All Sidchrome).

After that I went to double check with my neighbour that he didn't have a larger Sidchrome set, but unfortunately he only had a set where the largest size was 12mm. He then followed me accross the road to my garage and proceeded to stip the nut even more, ignoring all my interjection. :(

I'm not even sure a 6 point socket will do the trick anymore - might be up to the stripped nut tool stage (whatever those sockets with teeth are called).

I'm also in the middle of nowhere, so there is minimal supply of tools. I believe there is a Total Tools that will be open again on Tuesday. So I'm going to put the wheels back on and wait until then :/

Btw: I soaked the whole thing in WD40 and bashed the crap outta the nut with an impact driver - it was just way too tight for my 16 and 8 point sockets...

[Rice_4_life]

owww butchery to the max there :P dw snap on does mak a special drill bit + tool to remove stripped nuts, forgot the name of the tool tho :P, they also sell a 're-threadding' kit but ur lookin at $$$.

[aaronng]

Thanks for the advice. The nut in question is 14mm and is now rather stripped. The only 6 point 14mm socket I found amongst my and my neighbours' tools was a 3/8 drive - and the 3/8 to 1/2 drive adapator twisted right off and left the socket blocked up! (All Sidchrome).

After that I went to double check with my neighbour that he didn't have a larger Sidchrome set, but unfortunately he only had a set where the largest size was 12mm. He then followed me accross the road to my garage and proceeded to stip the nut even more, ignoring all my interjection. :(

I'm not even sure a 6 point socket will do the trick anymore - might be up to the stripped nut tool stage (whatever those sockets with teeth are called).

I'm also in the middle of nowhere, so there is minimal supply of tools. I believe there is a Total Tools that will be open again on Tuesday. So I'm going to put the wheels back on and wait until then :/

Btw: I soaked the whole thing in WD40 and bashed the crap outta the nut with an impact driver - it was just way too tight for my 16 and 8 point sockets...
Well, today was supercheap auto's 20% off storewide. I hope you picked up a proper 14mm superworksgold socket (same factory as sidchrome).

I'd use a dremel to trim the sides of the nut down so you could fit a 12 or 13mm 12-point socket instead.

[EG5[KRT]]

shiet... dunno but have you heard of gator grip ?? the ad claims it can get off rounded nuts..

that could b an option you could go.. but yeah i dunno if its any good or if it really works...

[Rice_4_life]

ohh it's a rounded bolt we're talkin about here? thought it was a broken head of the bolt :s. go the old fashioned route :P chisel and hammer ^^ taks ages but tats how u get em off cost effectively :D

[Dylanamus]

Well I managed to get the same bolt off from the other side of the suspension with a 10 point socket with no dramas at all, so I wasn't expecting it to slip and strip the nut when I went to the other side.

I did stop trying to undo it as soon as I became aware it was stripping, but my neighbour wasn't as kind to the nut hehe

The problem now is that the corners of the nut are burred, so only a pentagon shaped socket that fits on perfectly will cover enough surface area to get a good grip on it. And this just happens to be the one socket I don't have haha.

As for cutting the nut out, well it's the bolt that connects the rear LCA to the shock. The LCA has a welded hollow nut on one side and a bolt with a head on it slides through, so I can't just destroy the head of the bolt. If these bolts aren't too hard to come by, I'll replace it once I get the damn thing off.

[aaronng]

You can always get a replacement bolt from the Honda dealer or wrecker. It might take a while to get in, so keep that in mind before you destroy it.

[Dylanamus]

Ok here's what I did and it cost me $7.00. I waited until Tuesday when shops opened again, went to Total Tools and found a 14mm 6 sided impact socket in 1/2" drive, used the longest wrench I had and got that little bastard off in no time.

It just goes to show, if you don't have the right tools, get them FIRST, not after you let your neighbour play God with the fate of your nuts. hehe

Thanks everyone for your advice and replies. I finished the entire coilovers tonight and I'm pleased with the results :)