View Full Version : Feel's torque damper review
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2892/feelstdvp5.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelstdvp5.jpg)
Pros:
Reduce the wheel hops by much
Increase the shifting feeling (smoother) between gear.
Increase suspension stiffess ( not sure by how much but it's felt to be increased)
Cons:
Increase slight vibrations through the pedals when AC on at idle but it could be caused by combination with lightweight pulleys I currently have, because when I increased the idle rpm (ac on) by 200-300 rpm the vibration gone.
Hope it would be helpful info.:D
xiang
06-01-2007, 07:11 AM
I have no idea what this thing is suppose to do.. LOL
someone please explain?
what do you mean wheel hops?
TypeG
06-01-2007, 08:38 AM
i dun quite understand too
civiceg9
06-01-2007, 08:53 AM
It reduce the engine flex (engine movement when under load).
The rubber mount on your car flex and damper the vibration on the engine, makes your car more comfy. On a race car setup the engine mount is fixed so they can put maximum power on to the ground instead of losing energy through engine flex.
Chris_F
06-01-2007, 09:09 AM
i dun quite understand too
does the same as your spoon one ;)
ALN, this feels damper looks great - could you take a shot from a bit further away so we can see where exactly in the engine bay it is?
It looks like it fits really well with no clearance issues :thumbsup:
where did you get it from and for how much :D
Torque damper?
So i lose torque from the engine?
pfft, wots the point of that.?
Should get a torque increaser.
bennjamin
06-01-2007, 09:59 AM
Torque damper?
So i lose torque from the engine?
pfft, wots the point of that.?
Should get a torque increaser.
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol
BTW any "torque" dampened from moving the engine , will transfer to the drivetrain and equal more torque at the wheels :)
tony1234
06-01-2007, 10:24 AM
does the same as your spoon one ;)
ALN, this feels damper looks great - could you take a shot from a bit further away so we can see where exactly in the engine bay it is?
It looks like it fits really well with no clearance issues :thumbsup:
where did you get it from and for how much :D
yeah ALN im int.too.Looks a better fit than the spoon one.
aaronng
06-01-2007, 11:40 AM
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol
BTW any "torque" dampened from moving the engine , will transfer to the drivetrain and equal more torque at the wheels :)
And probably less broken engine mounts as well?
skinnyboy
06-01-2007, 11:47 AM
how would this go with stiffer engine mounts a'la ES insert equipped ones? I'm re-doing all my mounts with the ES poly ones, and was thinking of getting one of the spoon or ingalls dampers to add some extra stiffness.
aaronng
06-01-2007, 11:59 AM
how would this go with stiffer engine mounts a'la ES insert equipped ones? I'm re-doing all my mounts with the ES poly ones, and was thinking of getting one of the spoon or ingalls dampers to add some extra stiffness.
The damper is meant to provide the benefits of poly mounts without the constant vibration. In terms of reducing wheelhop, the poly mounts should be superior.
So if you are going for poly mounts, why bother putting in the damper, as the damper's effect would be minimal compared to the poly mounts.
skinnyboy
06-01-2007, 12:31 PM
good call, save me self some pennies then,
whats actually inside these dampers? is it elastomer or oil filled? they seem to be a lot of money for what they are.
aaronng
06-01-2007, 12:52 PM
good call, save me self some pennies then,
whats actually inside these dampers? is it elastomer or oil filled? they seem to be a lot of money for what they are.
It's just an elastomer that when compressed, pushes against the inner wall of the strut. It's simple. A piston with rubber or poly bushing at the end, fitted into the cylinder body.
Image from Jtso, the DIY guru of tsx.acurazine.
http://www.tsobad.com/jtso/Images/ETD/ETD%20internal.JPG
Basically torque damper will limit the movement of the engine. This not exactly make the car more comfy since it is more connected feelings.
The wheels hops usually happens when you launch your car in hard conditon as the wheels can't get traction since there is too much engine movement especially happens on the FWD.
IF you guys noticed on our car there is problem when shifting in high rev to the next gear, with TD I found it make smoother shifting by much when shifting in high rev.
The alternative to this method would stiffy insert mount but I was informed that insert mount creates more vibration to the cabin than TD does (like diesel cab) yet it is still performing similar function.
sodaz
06-01-2007, 02:54 PM
Nice mod. But from the pics it looks like the damper is not secured properly. There's quite a bit of slack on the right bolt which probably means it will slide up and down.
Perry
06-01-2007, 03:49 PM
from what I understand the engine damper only holds one side?
bennjamin
06-01-2007, 04:32 PM
yes. It connects to either side or any single point on the engine.
Most effective would be smack bang in the top center , but most join to either side of the cam cover.
As stated , its a less effective version of stiffer torque mounts ( rear and frontal sides) and also engine mounts
ALN, this feels damper looks great - could you take a shot from a bit further away so we can see where exactly in the engine bay it is?
It looks like it fits really well with no clearance issues :thumbsup:
where did you get it from and for how much :D
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9366/td1oo5.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=td1oo5.jpg)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7170/tdjh8.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tdjh8.jpg)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9973/td3zq5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=td3zq5.jpg)
It located on the lower right side of the engine. I got it from BT-Rev for $370
I don't know where it connects to, I'm not expert on it but I'm guessing it connect close to driveshaft or gear box, can someone justify it?:D
Nice mod. But from the pics it looks like the damper is not secured properly. There's quite a bit of slack on the right bolt which probably means it will slide up and down.
What do you mean, mate? Is it the design or the installation ?
since I asked a workshop to install it based on the instruction written.
JasonGilholme
06-01-2007, 06:10 PM
Even though that other bolt give the damper some movement it still stops the movement of the engine in a forwad/back direction.
The engine may still need some sort of movement from side to side (possibly around corners) but the main job of the damper is to stop forward and back movement.
aaronng
06-01-2007, 08:20 PM
That's not a loose bolt on the mount it's a movable mount that can swivel in the mount so it can be mounted at most angles without binding. It like a heim joint on some suspensions it's tight but loose at the same time in a different plane.
Yeah, that's probably it, but I would still put a rubber bushing in between the torque damper's end loop and the point of mounting.
It located on the lower right side of the engine. I got it from BT-Rev for $370
I don't know where it connects to, I'm not expert on it but I'm guessing it connect close to driveshaft or gear box, can someone justify it?:D
Did the kit come with any brackets?
IF you guys noticed on our car there is problem when shifting in high rev to the next gear, with TD I found it make smoother shifting by much when shifting in high rev.
It is a problem of the driving and shifting method. I can shift at any RPM smooth, easier at high RPM and redline.
Chris_F
06-01-2007, 10:51 PM
It located on the lower right side of the engine. I got it from BT-Rev for $370
I don't know where it connects to, I'm not expert on it but I'm guessing it connect close to driveshaft or gear box, can someone justify it?:D
thanks for the pictures and information... I'll have to get one of these in the future i think :)
I like it that its tucked away like that too and it will fit cl9 no problems.
expensive.. but you get that
Yeah, that's probably it, but I would still put a rubber bushing in between the torque damper's end loop and the point of mounting.
Did the kit come with any brackets?
It is a problem of the driving and shifting method. I can shift at any RPM smooth, easier at high RPM and redline.
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7114/feelstd4br6.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feelstd4br6.jpg)
that's the bracket.
That's very good driving tech you have, I'm not really driving tech master so after the TD installed I felt it helps smoother shifting:D
Chris_F
07-01-2007, 12:04 AM
damn... such a nice/simple design - i want one!
damn... such a nice/simple design - i want one!
So simple isn't it! The price is quite high though for what it is - it would be good if some enterprising company somewhere made an imitation.
Chris_F
07-01-2007, 12:15 AM
So simple isn't it! The price is quite high though for what it is - it would be good if some enterprising company somewhere made an imitation.
yea the price is definitely up there, its the only mass produced ETD that fits well on the CL9 tho.
the main reason i want one is so i can put my cusco lower arm bar back on, i love how that thing gets rid of the dead spot in the steering
yea the price is definitely up there, its the only mass produced ETD that fits well on the CL9 tho.
the main reason i want one is so i can put my cusco lower arm bar back on, i love how that thing gets rid of the dead spot in the steering
I wouldn't mind one of those bars but I am a bit put off by the number of people who have damaged them on speed humps, etc.
Re the ETD - If we could get enough people from here and the USA to email Ingalls or NRG etc we could convince them to make an application for the CL9. On ebay you can see Ingalls and NRG ETDs for the DC5 and other Hondas for around $190AUD+delivery. We just need to show them there is sufficient demand. The response to that JTSO DIY was phenominal so there is money to be made..
Chris_F
07-01-2007, 12:30 AM
I wouldn't mind one of those bars but I am a bit put off by the number of people who have damaged them on speed humps, etc.
Re the ETD - If we could get enough people from here and the USA to email Ingalls or NRG etc we could convince them to make an application for the CL9. On ebay you can see Ingalls and NRG ETDs for the DC5 and other Hondas for around $190AUD+delivery. We just need to show them there is sufficient demand. The response to that JTSO DIY was phenominal so there is money to be made..
haha yea, i destroyed one already... but in some ways i like that it becomes the lowest point of the car, i'd much rather scrape that than my header or exhaust. It just sucks that this lowest point has to extend down a further 3cm :thumbdwn:
Yea i think NRG or Ingalls should have offered JTSO something for his design then started selling them... Hell if i was considering making a few and selling them myself :p
Tobster
10-01-2007, 09:16 AM
The thing to be careful of with limiting engine movement and directing more torque to the driveline is that extra (let's call it "rougher") force may well highlight any weaker spots in the driveline -- in the Euro, that's probably the clutch.
It's a bit like how modded WRXs tend to break gearboxes from the all the extra torque.
OK -- that's an extreme example compared to the Euro. But, if your driving style causes hard thumping gear changes through the driveline, something may well give sooner rather than later.
How many people have already replaced their master cylinder?
Just a thought...
TypeG
10-01-2007, 09:38 AM
[quote=Tobster;1029782]
How many people have already replaced their master cylinder?
quote]
second
Chris_F
10-01-2007, 09:47 AM
The thing to be careful of with limiting engine movement and directing more torque to the driveline is that extra (let's call it "rougher") force may well highlight any weaker spots in the driveline -- in the Euro, that's probably the clutch.
It's a bit like how modded WRXs tend to break gearboxes from the all the extra torque.
OK -- that's an extreme example compared to the Euro. But, if your driving style causes hard thumping gear changes through the driveline, something may well give sooner rather than later.
How many people have already replaced their master cylinder?
Just a thought...
interesting point that
but according to some manufacturers of ETDs they reduce stresses to the drive train
Benefits:
Greatly improved off-the-line acceleration
Reduced wheel hop
Improved vehicle stability
Reduced shock loads on driveline components
Smoother shifting
Reduced wear on exhaust system joints
Less vibration transmission to the driver compared to polyurethane motor mounts.
Less shock load, compared to torque straps and chains.
Drifting – helps reduce shock loads when wheels gain traction.
Reduces motor movement – decreases the chance of motor parts rubbing against the hood and frame.
An engine torque damper should be less drastic than polyurethane mounts aswell.
JasonGilholme
10-01-2007, 09:53 AM
I can see how some people would think this is putting more stress on the drive line because more of the pressure get placed directly on the moving parts rather then goin into the engine mounts or even suspension.
However, i believe this mod will in fact make the motor more reliable because there will be less flexing of moving parts which means they will be lined up to one another much better allowing more power to be delivered quickly and more reliably.
Just my thoughts tho. What do others think?
J
Pumped
10-01-2007, 10:16 AM
the main reason i want one is so i can put my cusco lower arm bar back on, i love how that thing gets rid of the dead spot in the steering
Were you having troubles with your exhaust hitting your lower arm bar under hard acceleration/launching/ wheel spin etc?
Will this damper help with that, mine makes some chronic noises if i try to launch!
JasonGilholme
10-01-2007, 10:24 AM
yeah it should do depending on how much movement it stops.
Chris_F
10-01-2007, 10:35 AM
I can see how some people would think this is putting more stress on the drive line because more of the pressure get placed directly on the moving parts rather then goin into the engine mounts or even suspension.
However, i believe this mod will in fact make the motor more reliable because there will be less flexing of moving parts which means they will be lined up to one another much better allowing more power to be delivered quickly and more reliably.
Just my thoughts tho. What do others think?
J
I'm thinking along the same lines the etd should help stop engine movement without being overly harsh - its a basic shock absorber after all not a solid steel rod.
Were you having troubles with your exhaust hitting your lower arm bar under hard acceleration/launching/ wheel spin etc?
Will this damper help with that, mine makes some chronic noises if i try to launch!
With the OEM exhaust I was fine but with the lighter single outlet exhaust things are able to move around a lot more down there and yep the lower arm bar is hitting the cat - JTSO said his damper stopped this from happening. I had about 2cm clearance between the to (so there must be a lot of movement)
JasonGilholme
10-01-2007, 10:43 AM
it would be the same sort of argument saying that stiffer suspension puts more stress on the chassis.
Tobster
10-01-2007, 01:42 PM
it would be the same sort of argument saying that stiffer suspension puts more stress on the chassis.
Stiffer suspension DOES put more stress on the chassis; I've had a car with REALLY hard suspension that eventually just shook the car to bits and filled it with rattles. With lots of hard hits, anything will eventually begin to come unstuck.
Speak to anyone who regularly drives on bad dirt roads about how long their cars last before they just get jittered to bits...
EDIT: Additional thought: the secret in general is in EFFECTIVE dampening, which gives so much before stopping things smoothly (if you get what I mean).
aaronng
10-01-2007, 03:23 PM
Without a torque damper, high RPM clutch dump or quick shifting in a torquey engine can break engine mounts. While our Euro doesn't suffer that badly from broken mounts, there are many who went to the drag strip only to return with a broken engine mount. If they had a damper, the stress would have been transferred to the strut tower mount or to some other strong member and it wouldn't have broken the mount.
JasonGilholme
10-01-2007, 03:32 PM
TOBSTER: Yeah i wasn't saying that that argument is stupid. Its a similiar situation because your looking for less movement yet its putting stress on different parts of the car, in this case its the driveline instead of the chassis.
Its just a question of whether that extra stress is enough to cause any sort of short or long term effect.
h1coupe
20-01-2007, 09:49 AM
does anyone know of a place where I could buy one of these?
one that is accessible via the internet?
h1coupe
23-01-2007, 07:33 AM
anyone?
Chris_F
23-01-2007, 07:33 PM
ive been asking around aswell... wouldnt mind one of these
[QUOTE=ALN;1025961Increase suspension stiffess ( not sure by how much but it's felt to be increased)
[/QUOTE]
good thread:thumbsup: i dont see how it would effect suspension stiffness in any possible way though???
tony1234
24-01-2007, 07:39 AM
ive been asking around aswell... wouldnt mind one of these
Yeah,i'm interested as well.Please let us know if you find out where the damper can be ordered.:D
h1coupe
20-04-2007, 10:06 AM
anybody got any info on these?
Mr_will
20-04-2007, 10:12 AM
anybody got any info on these?
its not a where to buy thread, its a review. make your own thread
Pumped
20-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Group buy (brow)
Are these adjustable like the ones available for RSX, in that the stiffness can be changed ?
It can't be adjusted. However have you guys give a thought of the cons. such as increase in noise through the cabin.
h1coupe
26-04-2007, 09:24 AM
its not a where to buy thread, its a review. make your own thread
because it´s a review thread I can´t ask where he got the item from?
give me a break and don´t be negative repping because of lame crap like this:thumbdwn:
right back at ´ya;)
Bludger
26-04-2007, 10:13 AM
check out my rep.
thanks to MR WILL
Mr_will
26-04-2007, 11:27 AM
check out my rep.
thanks to MR WILL
i give out more + rep than neg rep :)
JasonGilholme
26-04-2007, 11:43 AM
what did he get done for??
Bludger
26-04-2007, 12:45 PM
I'm going to be the dark side of ECU-MAN.
[RED BLOCK GANGSTER]
EuroAccord13
26-04-2007, 01:14 PM
If anyone has issues with Reputation Points, take it to the discussion or talk to a mod... This thread is about an ETD not POINTS....
Abuse of Reputation Points are not allowed here..
JasonGilholme
26-04-2007, 01:35 PM
yes mum. lol
So does anyone know the availability on these?? And for b series motors??
Bludger
26-04-2007, 01:44 PM
OH traders sell ETD's
guys take it easy though just PM me about the ETD if you have any questions.
free2d
27-04-2007, 02:07 AM
Where is Feel's ETD install? Can be done DIY?
Mind if I ask how does it compare with Spoon/J's where the mount position is different.
Thanks.
mugen88
27-04-2007, 10:07 AM
It can't be adjusted. However have you guys give a thought of the cons. such as increase in noise through the cabin.
I dont get any noise at all from my Feels ETD in the cabin even with or without aircon on.
tony1234
27-04-2007, 07:18 PM
I dont get any noise at all from my Feels ETD in the cabin even with or without aircon on.
mugen88,what benefits did you notice after you installed the ETD?:p
I dont get any noise at all from my Feels ETD in the cabin even with or without aircon on.
Is it? I experienced increasing in noise through cabin especially when ac on. I red some reviews from japs web, they also had similar experience. I'll probably try out your car sometimes if you don't mind.
aaronng
28-04-2007, 01:45 PM
I drove Mugen88's car and couldn't tell any extra vibrations over the time before he put on the ETD.
EuroAccord13
14-06-2007, 04:28 PM
REVIVAL!!!!!
I put in the Feel's ETD (Clean skin for some reason) last night...
Wheel hop has been dramatically reduced... More to like next to none...
My exhaust doesn't hit my Type II LAB anymore...
Drawback... Vibration and resonance is very noticable at idle expecially when the fans are switched on. You can feel the feedback from the brake pedals etc....
But for all that vibration to get rid of wheel hops and exhaust flex... I'd take it!
:thumbsup: Nice, I have also experienced same issue of vibration but I wonder why Mugen88 didn't experienced it at all.
EuroAccord13
14-06-2007, 04:35 PM
:thumbsup: Nice, I have also experienced same issue of vibration but I wonder why Mugen88 didn't experienced it at all.
Maybe all the leather and junk in his car is damping the vibrations!!!! LOL
aaronng
14-06-2007, 04:46 PM
You are extra sensitive! To me, your vibrations after installing the ETD are only slightly worse than mine.
EuroAccord13
14-06-2007, 04:50 PM
OOI.. My car and me = ONE.... Bonded in harmony, if I feel she is sick, she will tell me... Anything different, I will know LOL!
Ok, the bonding part happens only when my missus is not around heeheeheheheehe....
But seriously, there is substantial vibration... Your car's loose somewhere!
OOI.. My car and me = ONE.... Bonded in harmony, if I feel she is sick, she will tell me... Anything different, I will know LOL!
Ok, the bonding part happens only when my missus is not around heeheeheheheehe....
But seriously, there is substantial vibration... Your car's loose somewhere!
I'm with you, mate:D . I was thinking to check the engine mounts if there is a broken one.
SiReal
14-06-2007, 05:10 PM
nice ETD. not sure why it was clean skin or whether it was supposed to be clean skin. was told they were out of stock so it wouldve been a supplier backlog to fill, hence probably clean skin. this couldve been feels ETD v.2
aaronng
14-06-2007, 05:17 PM
nice ETD. not sure why it was clean skin or whether it was supposed to be clean skin. was told they were out of stock so it wouldve been a supplier backlog to fill, hence probably clean skin. this couldve been feels ETD v.2
Because of this, now I want one as well....... :(
mugen88
14-06-2007, 08:03 PM
Maybe all the leather and junk in his car is damping the vibrations!!!! LOL
They obviously fixed all the prob's and vibration issues with the previous 03-05 euro when they upgraded and face lifted the 06 model. :thumbsup:
euro77
15-06-2007, 12:50 AM
what do you mean "clean skin"?
mugen88
15-06-2007, 01:35 AM
what do you mean "clean skin"?
Like wine no branding or markings just nice and shinny bling bling.
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