B20vtec dyno figures

[Edgeauto]

Hi all, we finally got the LS back on the dyno for a tune. Was wondering what are the latest results for all the other B20vtec out there?

Mods ATM
Mild head porting
Type R cams
Skunk 2 Cam gears
ITBs we made from a set off a 20v Toyota

Prior to fitting the cams we made 123fwkw un-tuned, before the tune we made 129fwkw after fitting the cams and gears but after tuning it we made 133fwkw and gained 10fwkw in the midrange.:)

U can watch the video @ http://www.edgeautomotive.com.au/Download.html

Cheers Grant

[MaskedAP1]

i have post this at another thread here, not the lastest outcome for the b20vtec, but it worth to check out

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/MaskedDC4/bretsb20vtecDA.jpg

[fatboyz39]

nice vid. Stock b20 bottom end?

[Edgeauto]

Yep totally stock. the whole car inc buying it in the first place has cost around $7000

[Edgeauto]

very nice result.

More interesting however is how sensitive your motor apprears to be to lightest changes in a/f

Next time ur on the dyno, tell Brett you want to tune to 13.5 a/f

Sounds and looks impressive. Good Job

We had a play but the gain was minimal

[muhhan]

Just trying to get my head around understanding tuning and reading dyno print outs.

Am I right in saying that the aim is to get the AFR curve to be as flat as possible and you were trying to get the ratio to be 13:1? When is the AFR considered to be too lean? Is there a general rule of thumb? I'm assuming that lean AFR is good up to a point and then if you go beyond it is bad for the engine as it causes too much heat leading to detonation? Do you specifically listen for detonation with any special devices when tuning the car?

Where the AFR started to creep up to 13.5 @ 5835rpm and again at 6660-6945rpm am I right in thinking that the power curve flattened out a little? Are these 2 things related or am I just drawing insignificant/wrong conclusions? Is there any reason why the AFR would start to creep up?

I actually noticed there was less black exhaust fumes as you got further and further into the tune and started to refine the AFR. Is this a direct result of improving/stabilising the AFR?

Thanks for letting me come along and watch. Very informative!

[b20b]

i noticed on one of your dyno graphs that when your engine was near its peak power figure that the curve went flat for quite a while...

i have a b20vtec with quads and it did the same ...when it got close to its peak power the curve went flat and did not drop off for quite a bit longer thean yours..
It had great mid range but i would lose that if i tried to move the peak power up in the rev range to try and get rid of it flat lining

I thought it was starving of air ....thought it was the exhaust tried every thing.... never could work it out
Eventurly took off the quads and super charged it
Torque to burn and it still fells like it NA:thumbsup:

[fatboyz39]

Yep totally stock. the whole car inc buying it in the first place has cost around $7000


thats very impressive results:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[EfiOz]

Good numbers!!

What size are the ITB's? Diameter and length from trumpet to inlet valve?

[Edgeauto]

Good numbers!!

What size are the ITB's? Diameter and length from trumpet to inlet valve?

dia is 45mm the length is about 300mm, i will get a precise measurement of the length when i get a chance if you want. If you want some pics PM me your email and i will send you some.:)

[Edgeauto]

Just trying to get my head around understanding tuning and reading dyno print outs.

Am I right in saying that the aim is to get the AFR curve to be as flat as possible and you were trying to get the ratio to be 13:1? When is the AFR considered to be too lean? Is there a general rule of thumb? I'm assuming that lean AFR is good up to a point and then if you go beyond it is bad for the engine as it causes too much heat leading to detonation? Do you specifically listen for detonation with any special devices when tuning the car?

Where the AFR started to creep up to 13.5 @ 5835rpm and again at 6660-6945rpm am I right in thinking that the power curve flattened out a little? Are these 2 things related or am I just drawing insignificant/wrong conclusions? Is there any reason why the AFR would start to creep up?

I actually noticed there was less black exhaust fumes as you got further and further into the tune and started to refine the AFR. Is this a direct result of improving/stabilising the AFR?

Thanks for letting me come along and watch. Very informative!

Your pretty close to the mark, AFRs started aty about 11:1 thats why it was blowing black smoke. The 13.5:1 are there cause we didnt feel the need to change them, they more likely caused raised area rather than the dip.

[jdmTYPE R]

nice figure man for a stock bottomend wat injector size r u running???

[Edgeauto]

nice figure man for a stock bottomend wat injector size r u running???

Standard fuel system, the only mods are what has been listed in the first post. BTW cheers for the cams:)

[ECU-MAN]

nice result.

was fun listening to it on the dyno :)

[tinkerbell]

here a re a few of my B20VTEC charts i have had over teh years...

engine 1
April 2003
http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/croydon%20dyno%20comparisonsml.jpg

July 2003

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/premier%20dyno2.jpg

January 2004
http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/dyno29.01.04sml.jpg

Engine 1 ran 13.75 @ 101MPH at WSID in an LS integra

engine 2

August 2005
http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/B20VTECaugust%202005.jpg

October 2006
http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/B20VTECdynoOct06.jpg

Engine 2 ran 14.5 @ 96MPH at WSID in a VTiR integra

Engine 2 has just had (in late 2006) the valve seats re-cut by an advanced multi-angle cutter - it has not been dyno'd since that rebuild.


basic specs of both Engine 1 & 2 (some brands different, but virtually same engine):

engine 1 - B20B3 Block
engine 2 - B20B8 block
B16A Head
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
enlarged piston reliefs
CTR camshafts
CTR valve springs
Toda adj. cam gears
ITR intake manifold
stock 60mm VTiR throttle body
stock VTiR intake pipe
K&N air filter
JDM 4-1 ITR headers
2.5in cat converter
HKS superdragger catback
walbro 255 EFI pump
Prelude 340cc injectors (P&H)
Toda 4.1kg flywheel
VTiR gearbox
Sard adj. FPR
Apexi VAFC

[tinkerbell]

edge auto - can you post a "motive force" graph too please?

[Edgeauto]

edge auto - can you post a "motive force" graph too please?

Sorry i dont have a print out of it only the max reading on the 1 already posted. Did you find the B20B3 and B20B8 had different pistons cause we're using a B20B8 block and everything we read said it had dished piston with a 8.8:1 compression but its got flat pistons and about 10:1 compression

[tinkerbell]

OK, thats cool.

yeah, the B3 has less CR than the B8

using this:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/compcalc/compcalc.php

my calc is that the B3 motor i had was 9.7ish:1 after head shave

my calc is that the B8 motor i have is 10.2ish:1 after head shave

[tinkerbell]

but are you running a PR3 B16A head or P72 B18C head?

B18C P72 head adds ~0.2 CR

[tinkerbell]

and what EMS are you running?

[Edgeauto]

I did the calculation and it worked ours to 863lb of max motive force. We are using a P72 head, we also worked our to be about 10.5:1 so that sounds correct, copmression is 210psi in all cyl. We are using cromepro . Thats a pretty cool calulator:)

[xxx26e]

hey i was intertested in installing a B20B3 long motor into my dc2. Is it worth it?

[tinkerbell]

if you have a VTiR - you already have the VTEC head... so you could do a B20VTEC very easily and yes, it would be worth it...

the performance gain of using the B8 block over the B3 is minimal... but if both are the same price, get the B8 for sure...

[tinkerbell]

but if you just wanna do the B20B non-VTEC, i would say no - as you already have a more powerful engine in your engine bay...

[xxx26e]

Can i use my gearbox and do i have to change my mounts?
I want to do this for track. are they good engines for track?
So they are stock vtec?

[tinkerbell]

do you have a VTiR?

if so, yes, it has VTEC standard.

as for your other questions:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/search.php

[xxx26e]

At the moment i have 93kw at the wheels how much are we looking at if i did the swap?

[xxx26e]

Yeh i have a 94 vtir.
Does that mean i can use all my b18c parts like exhaust and intake?
I was considering a k20 or b20 which one would you recommend for power?
Do you have a shop?
You are a great help. Thanks

[teaseR]

obviously k20 will yield more power...
compare the prive of the conversion...
k-series = easy 10-15k
b20 if done right = 5-7k

[xxx26e]

I am considering the B20B8, can i leave the internals standard and i going to get more power than my b18c2 with internals standard?

[tinkerbell]

start a new thread.

[ALLMTR]

Mine made 124kwatw

[fatboyz39]

obviously k20 will yield more power...
compare the prive of the conversion...
k-series = easy 10-15k
b20 if done right = 5-7k


Really? A well built b20 would yield more power then a k20. With the k-series the 6 speed box make it so superior.

[fatboyz39]

Mine made 124kwatw

Any specs on the motor? :)

[Rice_banger]

are you serious , that the KA20 comes with a manual 6 speed,

so what cars do they come out of , and how rare is manual ?

me guesses 2006 model civics but just want to be sure , ive tryed searching ,

sorry to go off topic

[geeang]

K20A comes out of DC5R

[Limbo]

Also Ep3s, but they are rare...

wish i had an EP3.
I'd trade my car for an EP3

[ALLMTR]

Any specs on the motor? :)

Standard bottom end with ARP bolts and relieved stock pistons, Toda A's, ITR TB, Custom intake manifold and I made up some extractors for it.

[teaseR]

Really? A well built b20 would yield more power then a k20. With the k-series the 6 speed box make it so superior.

built b20 vs built k20...
k series respond to mods better

[heartagram integra]

My B20 made 180HP
forged pistons and Jun stage 3 Head and other goodies :)

[Benson]

My B20 made 180HP
forged pistons and Jun stage 3 Head and other goodies :)

Thats a pretty low figure... should be expecting around 200hp + with that set-up

[ZeForce]

Thats a pretty low figure... should be expecting around 200hp + with that set-up

Agreed, mine made 180hp with stock bottom end and VTiR cams

[heartagram integra]

still running stock vtir computer with apexi neo. will be putting a hondata in it. Car keeps making power on dyno and then is restricted by stock computer. will let you guys know how it goes once computer is in :)

[tekung89]

so we have the

B20A.B.Z ~ will all these blocks fit with the B18C gear box and head with ease?

[ZeForce]

B20A is not interchangeable with other B series parts.... B20B/Z will bolt up no problem

[spoonfed]

my b20 made 120kw

engine set up
b20b
itr head
smsp header
skunk2 manifold
skunk2 throttle body

[Lex_EG93]

obviously k20 will yield more power...
compare the prive of the conversion...
k-series = easy 10-15k
b20 if done right = 5-7k

just out of curiosity what would your idea be of a built b20 done right ?

im currently doin a b20 and i want to know if im on the right track

thanks

[fatboyz39]

List what your doing to your B20.

[Lex_EG93]

heres the list:

b20b8
p72 head
p72 IM
hondata s300 ecu
itr 4.7 box
GE head studs
itr driveshafts & s/linkages

now planning to bore out the block for oversized pistons and chuck in rods as well (dnt know what rods to go with)

am i on the right track?

or should i go for b16a head with modded cams or itr cams

which head should have more power gain?

[trism]

you dont bore teh head out for oversized pistons

the block gets bored out

and you dont wanna bore out the b20 block very much because the cylinders walls are thin enough as it is

if you do, youll need a pretty decent sleeve kit

[Lex_EG93]

oops typo. *edited* was typing quik cuz im at work loL

[Lex_EG93]

you dont bore teh head out for oversized pistons

the block gets bored out

and you dont wanna bore out the b20 block very much because the cylinders walls are thin enough as it is

if you do, youll need a pretty decent sleeve kit

how much r sleeve kits ?

[fatboyz39]

whats is your power goal?

[Lex_EG93]

150+ im hoping

[Benson]

you need more than that for 150kw +

[replenished.soul]

MY b20 made 132kw atw

Mods
B20B8 Bottom End
Stock VTI-R head
2000 ITR CAMS
Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Skunk2 70mm Throttle Body
Small Tube Tri-Y Headers
SRI Intake with Blox Air Filter
2.5inch System(High flow

chrome ecu

[Lex_EG93]

no block work?

[ZeForce]

MY b20 made 132kw atw

Mods
B20B8 Bottom End
Stock VTI-R head
2000 ITR CAMS
Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Skunk2 70mm Throttle Body
Small Tube Tri-Y Headers
SRI Intake with Blox Air Filter
2.5inch System(High flow

chrome ecu


no block work?

Details of the above engine setup...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101089

[replenished.soul]

no block work?

The block has got
B20B8 Bottom End
Freshly built
New rings
New bearings
ARP rod Bolts
Professionally Notched Pistons
Fresh Hone
New Clearances

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101089
__________________

[fatboyz39]

150+ im hoping

150hp most definately. 150kw you'll need headwork and more compression.

[phwoaaa]

im pulling 125kw with my b20b3/b18c7
tri-y headers
2" xforce catback
power fc
skunk 2 tb

[RtN]

hmm is 2" bit small for teh b20?

[VTi_b0i]

sooooo muchhhh powerrrr!!! LOL

[phwoaaa]

only temporary... waiting on my muffler to arrive.. then gonna give 2.5" a try :)

hopefully it'll gain abit.

[VTi_b0i]

thats ALOT of power man! what does she feel like driving it? got any exp driving b18c? b18c turbo? b16s etc?