RedLine lightweight GB oil stuffed my 3rd gear synchro!!

[locote]

Lesson learnt im only using honda oil from now on!!!
The gearbox kept blowing the redline shit through the filler hole and all over my bay, but i stupidly kept putting more redline in there"!!!

I drained it alll out today replaced it with correct oil i went for a long drive and no mess, but my 3rd gear synchro is notchie only on 4000rpm plus and only goin up so its not totaly dead but now ill have to use it as an excuse to hunt a ITR box down, i guess thats the only plus hey...

[destrukshn]

told ya so.
lol.

[locote]

HEHEHE i know,
Y does the box reject redline oil is my question????
Any one where and how much i can get a ITR LSD box??
im not fused if its a 4.4 or 4.7, i just want the LSD and good synchros

[destrukshn]

did you replace the washer on the filler bolt?

[locote]

I used the breather hole to fill it up..
Is there any aditive i can use to make the shift into 3rd not so rough till i find a new box.
Maybe that nulon gear stuff or some thing???

[SLOWEGG]

First time ive heard bad things about redline gear oil. Alot of wrx and gtr use this gear oil.

[destrukshn]

yes.
but hondas are quite sensitive when it comes to thier boxes.

[locote]

Will the nulon gearbox tube stuff help in anyway or should i just leave it??

[[ricer]]

yes.
but hondas are quite sensitive when it comes to thier boxes.

so its only recommended to use honda oil when doing gear boxes?

theres no other oils?

[bennjamin]

I dont think its the fluid....
why did u use the gearbox breather hole to fill it up ? Probably a big gulp got stuck in there with a big airbubble and blew it all out again = not enough fluid. There is a few good resources about PROPERLY filling up gearbox - including the DIY i did very recently - look -

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58596

+1 stupidity rep to you lol.

[honda_b_blastn]

Ive had 2 DC2R drivers that were using aftermarket gearbox oil complain about selection issue's,which was resolved once replaced with oem fluid.
Stick with oem fluid for your gearbox..:)

[locote]

I filled it up exacly same way today with proper fluid and no fluid has leaked!!!!

How can it be doin it for 1 week with redline oil and as soon as drain it and use Honda oil the problem is resolved..

The obvious answer is the gearbox does not like redline easy...

[silver_screen]

OEM is good.. Redline is the best

I run Redline oils in my track car and my humble lil civic as well as my old 180sx :)

Never had a problem. Infact gear changes were much smoother and they never crunched (Use the proper oil for the application)

If you must call Redline, and tell them your situation and they will tell you what oil to use :)

[turtleEK1]

i had a few crunching issues with my box when tracking it... so i now use oem mtf with that nulon additive and its made quite a difference...

won't make a difference straight away... but i've had no issues with it...

may be a silly question... but how are your torque mounts? if you've been having shift problems, sometimes its because the torque mounts have had it...

[locote]

But its only 3rd gear when upshifing at high rpm, other gears are fine and downshifting is not a prob..
Ill buy the nulon stuff tomorow and see if the problem gets sorted.

[egSi]

who ever told u to use redline, kick em in the nuts :thumbsup:

[iijjee]

I've got a friend/acquaintence who is a reputable engine builder in Brisbane. He works on the odd nations cup car and lost of other circuit racers. He informed me that one of the "u-drive" companies in Sydney, which mainly uses XR8's and other Ford V8's and XR6's, was going through g'boxes like they were oil filters. As soon as they switched to Redline - no more g'box problems.

I've used redline in my R33's over the years and I can tell you that Redline Lightweight Shockproof will mask notchy changes and bad synchros, not create them. If it's there now, it was probably being hidden by the excellent dampening effect of the redline oil. Oils is oils and Honda oils aren't made on planet Honda to suit only Hondas. On this planet (at least!) I can tell you there isn't a g'box oil with a better reputation than the one you have recently (mis) used.

Hey, I sound like a redline rep! Anyway I hope this, added to the suggestions about proper techniques, with help people make an informed decision...

[string]

I'm with bennjamin here, redline oil didn't kill your syncros.

Also, no matter how many oils you try out, you are never going to 'fix' your syncro problem. Oil will not rebuild metal parts.

[tinkerbell]

Dear David,
Lightweight Shockproof for the gearbox with the gear type LSD. Be sure that it is GEAR type.
Regards,
Tim Slako
Technical
RedLine Oil
redlineoil@redlineoil.com.au


> Website Enquiry
Name: david
i am rebuilding a Honda Integra Type R gearbox and retaining the OEM helical "gear type" LSD. which redline shockproof oil will be best for it? if any?

i got RedLine to tell me in writing that they recommended Lightweight shockproof.

[Slow96GSR]

What oil did you use?

From the Red Line website.

"SuperLight ShockProof™

A unique product with the viscosity of 75W90 gear oil but lower internal friction similar to that of an ATF. Used when temperatures are not high and when the maximum power output is required such as in stock car qualifying laps.

Used in two-stroke and four-stroke motocross transmissions (often mixed in equal parts with LightWeight ShockProof™ Gear Oil).

Used in 80cc and 125cc shifter kart transmissions.

Used in low-power road racing transxles like Formula Vee and low-power SCCA Production classes (dog-ring type, generally not sycro application where this product can be slippery). "

"LightWeight ShockProof™

A unique gear oil designed to lubricate racing transmissions and transaxles which see serious loads (not recommended for most syncro-type transmissions). It has excellent low-temperature flow which allows easier shifting when cold. May be used to obtain maximum power transfer in racing differentials which do not see high temperatures. Similar to a 75W140 gear oil, but with the lower internal friction of an SAE 30 motor oil.

Used in two-stroke and four-stroke motocross transmissions (often mixed in equal parts with SuperLight ShockProof™ Gear Oil).

Used in most road-racing differentials with moderate power and dogring racing transaxles."

"Heavy ShockProof™

A unique lubricant containing a suspension of solid microscopic particles as an extreme pressure agent--unique solid dispersion which cushions gear teeth to help prevent tooth breakage and allows the use of lower viscosities. Recommended for heavily-loaded racing differentials and transmissions, Off Road racing and problem gearboxes. The viscosity characteristics allow the lubricant to resist throwoff and provide a film thickness similar to a 75W250 grade, while providing the same low fluid friction as an SAE 75W90.

Recommended for Big-Twin transmissions (Twin Cam, '84-up EVO, Knucklehead, Shovelhead, Panhead). Big-Twin primary chaincase should use our MTL product."

Unless you have aftermarket transmission internals and are running a Dogring style gear set you should NOT use the Shockproof oils. I'll be adding more as I look more in to this. I myself use OEM Honda transmission oil.

Edit:

Here is what I would have used. I am in no way a Tech for or associated with Red Line. This is only my opinion.

"MTL

This 70W80 GL-4 Gear Oil (SAE 5W30/10W30 engine oil viscosity) is designed for use in manual transmissions and transaxles. Provides excellent protection of gears and synchronizers and its balanced slipperiness provides a perfect coefficient of friction, allowing easier shifting. Popular in many BMW transmissions and in most Honda and Acura transaxle applications.

MTL is the correct product for Big-Twin primary chaincase. Big-Twin transmissions should use Red Line Heavy Shockproof, while Sportster and Buell Tranmission should use Red Line 75W90 GL-5 gear oil."

Then added:

"Limited Slip Friction Modifier

Compatible with petroluem or synthetic gear oils, this product will significantly reduce the friction break-in of differentials, reducing break-in temps for as much as 50 degrees F. Limited slip or positraction units will often chatter without use of this product or a gear oil with a similar modifier, so add only enough to eliminate the chatter and avoid making the plates or clutches too slippery."

[tinkerbell]

check here:

http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/SPGO%20TR%2002_03.pdf

[BlitZ]

where is the world is the oil spitting from? haahah the little breather knob? ehehehe

did u fill it using the fill hole.. (bolted in)

[tinkerbell]

and here:

http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/finalbook%20reviseI(1).pdf

[bennjamin]

where is the world is the oil spitting from? haahah the little breather knob? ehehehe

did u fill it using the fill hole.. (bolted in)

read lol


I dont think its the fluid....
why did u use the gearbox breather hole to fill it up ? Probably a big gulp got stuck in there with a big airbubble and blew it all out again = not enough fluid. There is a few good resources about PROPERLY filling up gearbox - including the DIY i did very recently - look -

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58596

+1 stupidity rep to you lol.

[Slow96GSR]

I dont think its the fluid....
why did u use the gearbox breather hole to fill it up ? Probably a big gulp got stuck in there with a big airbubble and blew it all out again = not enough fluid. There is a few good resources about PROPERLY filling up gearbox - including the DIY i did very recently - look -

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58596

+1 stupidity rep to you lol.

Lol, do we really have that in the rankings?



[Dear David,
Lightweight Shockproof for the gearbox with the gear type LSD. Be sure that it is GEAR type.
Regards,
Tim Slako
Technical
RedLine Oil
redlineoil@redlineoil.com.au


> Website Enquiry
Name: david
i am rebuilding a Honda Integra Type R gearbox and retaining the OEM helical "gear type" LSD. which redline shockproof oil will be best for it? if any?]


i got RedLine to tell me in writing that they recommended Lightweight shockproof.

But in his email he said to make sure you had gear style LSD. To me this means not syncros, but dog gears. It's the style we use in formula cars, no need for a clutch as long as the car is moving. He should have gone into more detail but you should have been way more detailed in your question, also a little research would have left you knowing not to use the Shockproof, says not to on the site unless you have the dog gears. The fluild didn't fail, it was just used incorrectly. This resulted in the syncros to fail early. But at the same time I doubt it targeted just the 3rd gear. We find most transmission failures are a result of the driver, even when the builder put the wrong fluid in or too much in.

[tinkerbell]

the OEM honda LSD is a Gear style:

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/LSD/lsdbuild.gif

Tim was referring to that, not whether i had a dog box... FYI - i spoke to him on the phone as well champ ;) i would not base my decision on a one line email reply :thumbsup:

[Slow96GSR]

Ok I just wanted to make sure. I hate when people make uninformed statements about something. Had to make sure all the facts were presented. Also anyone who takes a one line-one email answer from a big company and thinks that's all the facts needs to be shot, glad you called too. I think someone was misinformed or misunderstood something that was going on here. I would just stick with the Honda OEM fluid unless you do some major stuff like Quaife internals. Then the dogs will want the Red Line oils.

[tinkerbell]

also a little research would have left you knowing not to use the Shockproof, says not to on the site unless you have the dog gears.

LOL! where does it say that???? :confused:

not anywhere here:

http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/SPGO%20TR%2002_03.pdf

[tinkerbell]

I hate when people make uninformed statements about something.

:zip:

[Slow96GSR]

Read the post I made quoting the site! Post #20.

That PDF is only telling you facts about the oil, not what to use it in. Read the descriptions of the products on the web site, not the tech pdf's.

Also are you telling me to zip it or you're zipping it? You have to elaborate on the smilie use!!

[tinkerbell]

Read the post I made quoting the site! Post #20.

That PDF is only telling you facts about the oil, not what to use it in. Read the descriptions of the products on the web site, not the tech pdf's.

Also are you telling me to zip it or you're zipping it? You have to elaborate on the smilie use!!

sorry, i have been usign the redline Australia information, not the Redline USA information

so i just spoke to redline Australia,

i was just advised that Redline australia DOES recommend it for use in synchro style transmissions, and have requested that the USA site remove the reference you are referring to!

ahhhh well, i guess it is a sad state of affairs when one part of one organisation disagrees with another part of it!!!

[bennjamin]

is it me , or did the original poster not quote the exact type of redline oil he used ? Or if he actually filled the right amount....

He only quoted the silly process of filling ~
(via the breather).

[tinkerbell]

yes, it might NOT even be teh Shockproof he is referrign to:

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=40&subCategoryID=15&categoryID=6

[Slow96GSR]

What they need to do is get people to do research for them. Which side is wrong, who knows, but until someone does detailed research I would look hard at both sources. It still isn't worth using if one says it is not intended for your application. You don't have aftermarket internals for racing. You have a OEM Honda LSD, use the OEM fluids for it. Honda builds and manufactures their parts and fluids to work with each other. Red Line makes their fluids to work with race application parts, not OEM parts. They realize the car manufactures make or have made fluids for the OEM parts so why should Red Line make the same stuff. They may build on the fluid like new additives but still if the parts are OEM use OEM fluids. You did learn the hard way. I think the 1000's of topics involving Red Line and the 30-40 or so that I have commented on I state use Red Line with aftermarket parts and OEM fluids with OEM parts. I'll contact Red Line and see which site is the more up to date or correct one but until then no one get all hyped about "ooooo I use Red Line oil" or "I'm gonna use it with my next oil change". It's for RACE CARS!!!

[Samo]

who ever told u to use redline, kick em in the nuts :thumbsup:

it was me who told him its alright to use redline ...

i used it in a few of my hondas incl. dc2r, dc2 sir w/lsd and my d-series

never had any problems and changes are much more smoother ..

if he used the "lightweight shockproof" it shouldnt be a problem ..

and also thats wat the filler hole w/ the 17mm bolt is for so u dont get the fluid level wrong ... maybe he over filled it

Samo

[tinkerbell]

BTW - i have noticed that most Honda gearboxes are subject to third gear synchro problems after a while of hard driving...

[kayot1k]

i can vouch for samo !
this person that started this topic does not know what he/she is on about.
thumbs down !!
you have no technical/theoretical grounds to prove that redline doesnt belong in a honda box just that one mishap you had.
mustve been pouring the stuff on the ground.

[fatboyz39]

BTW - i have noticed that most Honda gearboxes are subject to third gear synchro problems after a while of hard driving...

ditto...

[SLOWEGG]

Pouring the stuff on the ground ? He must be rich..

[locote]

Hey Kayot1k u just made tha smartest coment of all!!!
Exept it wasnt me who poured it into the ground the gearbox blew it all out!!
it blew 2 different caps clean off, and it ozzed out when i used a K&N breather

Im not saying redline oil directly stuffed my synchro i have no proof it did.
but i can say that because it kept blowing it all out and the box started running empty, the synchro went.

And why has it stopped blowing the oil out once i put MTF in it.
Maybe because it was the redline making all the problems.

Im only trying to share an experience so no one else has same prob as me and wrecks their box.

BTW it was lightweight( light blue oil) filled to the right amount( till it dripped of the HEX bolt)

I filled the redline same as the MTF through the breather hole.
the top filler hole was as tight as F and the nut was starting to strip so i chose not to continue.

I used exacly same oil in my S15 and it loved it never had a drama...

Next time ill take video footage just for u Kayot1k,
Y the **** would i make a post about this but not tell the truth???
I posted exacly what i did how i did it and what i used..

[gReY-oNe]

im currently using light weight redline in my box
thats wat the mech put in after the new box went in
and it seems to be runnin perfect for me

i havnt seen a problem
but im having it drained out this week for a flush
myte rethink putting oem fluid in

[aaronng]

The more viscous lightweight caused an airlock because it was not flowing into the transmission case. Since it is more viscous than MTF, I suspect that Lightweight MUST be filled into the gearbox using the proper filler bolt and not the vent. That way, the Lightweight will be at the bottom and coating your gears. Also, you might have caused damage to your synchros because by using the vent, transmission fluid did not get all the way down into the bottom of the case and might have left a few sections of the gears dry. How many litres of Lightweight did you put in?

[locote]

2.4lts

[Slow96GSR]

That sounds about right. But aaronng is right about using the actual filler hole, not the vent. The oil might not have coated everything.

[koldfire]

i have a 120,000km ITR LSD box with 4.7 final drive. I drive hard and use honda oil. 3rd gear synchros crooked as well. sometimes, can't even downshift at highspeed at all.

[Samo]

from wat i heard from ppl ... more than 90% of the time 3rd gear's synchros go first ,,, then its 4th .. in hondas

may cos the vent that u filled the fluid wasnt on properly and it spat out ... and when u used the k&n breather .. it'll just pour out of the vents of the filter bit

then when u put honda mtf in .. mayb u had it on properly so its all good nnow

[aaronng]

i have a 120,000km ITR LSD box with 4.7 final drive. I drive hard and use honda oil. 3rd gear synchros crooked as well. sometimes, can't even downshift at highspeed at all.

Yours is more like normal wear. His was spraying out MTF out of the breather hole...

[aaronng]

2.4lts

Ok, but seriously, you can get MTF down the breather vent because it is 70w80. BUt you can't get Redline Lightweight down the same way because it is 75w140.

You said that you filled it until it dropped out of the hex bolt. Is that hex bolt the filler bolt? If it was, you should have just filled it through that instead of the breather vent.

[locote]

I tried but it kept spitting it out..
I cracked the filler bolt open this arvo so ill drain all and refill it the correct way,

[aaronng]

Remember to fill in using the same bolt opening that you use to check the level with. I think there is another bolt at the top of the transmission case that looks like a filler bolt. Don't use that.

[locote]

How many bolt holes does a B series box have lol.
I use the bolt hole near the thermostat this time to put nulon additive.

[Slow96GSR]

Thermostat? There are no filler holes there.

http://www.strathlan.com/tocclan/images/Trannyoilfill.bmp

Sorry bout the wrong picture. I thought I had the right url. I edited in the correct one. Lol!!

[sydteg21]

i think he is talking about the vss hole, hey man, if you look down to GB when you stand in front of the engine bay ,you only can see one 17mm bolt which is left side of GB (correct me if i'm wrong) you can use spanner to reach there

[tinkerbell]

How many bolt holes does a B series box have lol.
I use the bolt hole near the thermostat this time to put nulon additive.

download a factory service manual before you break something expensive... :wave:

it has pictures like the one SlowGSR posted...

[NA15BS]

huh!! good info. im planning to change my gearbox oil this long weekend, im thinking to put aftermarket oil, from what i've just read better stick with oem oil, looks like i have the same problem, my mechanic used aftermarket oil in my gearbox. thanks ders Ozhonda

[Slow96GSR]

As I have stated 100 times here, there is absolutely no need for a performance oil or fluid in a stock motor or tranny. The manufacture has their suggested fluid list and if you are smart you will stick to it. Even in a built motor or tranny you can still use OEM fluids. Might need to use an additive or if you buy a new box or internals use what the manufacture recomends. That is all!

[tinkerbell]

As I have stated 100 times here, there is absolutely no need for a performance oil or fluid in a stock motor or tranny. The manufacture has their suggested fluid list and if you are smart you will stick to it. Even in a built motor or tranny you can still use OEM fluids. Might need to use an additive or if you buy a new box or internals use what the manufacture recomends. That is all!


mate, now i AM going to tell you to zip it!

get off your soap box about this, modifying cars is all about CHOICE.

do you think a B20 just fell into my cars engine bay? do you think i didnt make the choice to use a PWR alloy radiator? do you think the oil filter relocation kit was just for fun?

no.

we all make choices about what to modify - 99% of the time...
there is absolutely no need for a performance...part to be added to a stock car, but we do anyways.

just because people dont NEED something for a particular reason, does not mean they are wrong to CHOOSE that thing.



unless you say damage could occur by use of correctly specified Redline oil? are you saying that Redline oil will damage a gearbox??? how many gearboxes have you inspected after use of Redline oil? what was the issue/concern?

[bennjamin]

before anything else is said ~ as myself and aarong pointed out there was an issue with the "installation" of this liquid. Via the breather could of caused problems. Not the liquid choice.

[tinkerbell]

then, pls change thread title Mr Moderator..?

[aaronng]

get off your soap box about this, modifying cars is all about CHOICE.


He said performance fluid or oil. He didn't say performance part.

[tinkerbell]

mate, now i AM going to tell you to zip it!

get off your soap box about this, modifying cars is all about CHOICE.

do you think Mobile 1 just fell into my cars engine ? do you think i didnt make the choice to use a distilled water with Water Wetter in my alloy radiator? do you think the Redline oil in my gearbox was done because it was blue in colour?

no.

just because people dont NEED to get non-OEM fluids, does not mean they are wrong to CHOOSE these things.



sorry, fixed for you arrong, but IMO it is the same principle.

[aaronng]

sorry, fixed for you arrong, but IMO it is the same principle.

Thanks :)
In my opinion, OEM fluids are good enough to maintain a usable period between scheduled changes when run on the street. Of course, for a track machine it's different. Of course, I am guilty as well by using aftermarket engine oil. But as for coolant, diff, trans, clutch and brake fluids, OEM is good enough (unless it is for track of course).

[Slow96GSR]

Ya Tinkerbell until you are a Honda Certified mechanic and/or ASE Certified, (or your equivalent), I think I'll say what I want. A stock B20 in a Civic is still a stock B20! If it had aftermarket internals then it would be aftermarket modified and need the fluids the part manufactures recommend. Same with the tranny. Just because your tranny hasn’t blown doesn’t mean it won’t. Parts fail when parts fail, whether it’s in a day, a week, a year, 10 years, or never is up to the part and its environment. It’s like you all think by adding Red Line oil you all have an f’n racecar. “Yes, I go faster now and have 2,000,000 more hp because of this oil.” Get f’n real guys, it isn’t doing anything. I work on race cars all day, and stock cars. We have used plain oil and Red Line and the only difference is break down and temp ratings. The dyno showed no improvements. Not to mention the expense. At $55USD a case (12 bottles) it isn’t even worth it to my car to use it. And my motor would pay for any of your motors any day. I haven’t nor will I use Red Line in my car. I still don’t think I need it. So I will stand here on my soap box and say it for the 102nd time. A STOCK CAR DOES NOT NEED RED LINE, GO BUY OEM FLUIDS AND USE THOSE. THEY WORK JUST FINE. YOU WILL NOT GAIN ANYTHING BY USING RED LINE UNTIL YOU MOD THE CAR ENOUGH TO NEED IT. ALSO USE THE RIGHT FILLER HOLE!!!!

Red Line Water Weter does help lower temps, we are talking about oil and tranny fluid. I use the Water Weter too and do see lower temps, all 15%!!

[tinkerbell]

however, i believe you can run OEM fluids for the track, but probably not without increasing the fluid change intervals...

but IMO it should nearly always be aftermarket brake fluid for the track...

[tinkerbell]

LOL @ SlowGSR

nice rant, 7/10

[bennjamin]

ALSO USE THE RIGHT FILLER HOLE!!!!




summary of this thread IMO :)

If you use the breather hole to fill , you risk under filling the gearbox due to it being the wrong way to fill.
Fill via the VSS hole or via the actual fill hole located on the side of the diff housing guys n girls :) Then once filled, dip ur finger in and you should just feel the level right at the fill hole.