Thermostat and Fan switch needed?

[shebangs]

My engine is fairly moderately done now. Next is just internals, but I'm stepping back now and ensuring reliability (oil temp/pressure guages etc) but I want to know, for Street (she isnt tracked yet) are Mugen/Spoon Thermostat and Fan Switches a must have?

The other day after a rather quiet drive, I poped the bonnet to check oil level and it was ****en hot under there. ****en hot. Couldnt even touch the oil level stick. Water temp guage in the cluster was reading normal though.

Same goes with Oil cooling too. Oil Cooler, and Oil Sump (with the dividers..forgot the term) overrated?

[Mr_will]

this is often where people get silly and start putting scoops and all that sort of shaz-wazza on their cars.

i dont know exactly how hot your car was, but consider this - you dont drive your car hard (high revs/high load) when its cold. why? because the engine NEEDS to be warm to operate efficiently.
as long as your temp gauge moves to warm reasonably quickly, and doesnt wave around too much when youre driving, you dont have a problem.

having a low temp thermostat will cause your car to heat up more slowly, and if you make many short trips, will mean that you are driving when the engine is not fully warm, far more often. this is an excellent recipe for accelerated engine wear.

this goes for both water and oil temp. i would suggest installing the gauges, and watching over the course of a month or so, whether your temps are creeping up or not. is pretty unlikely for a n/a application that youd want an oil cooler.
the normal applications for these are turbo, towing or track.

a baffled sump prevents oil starvation from the pickup point under hard sweeping corners - not something you are likely to regularly encounter on the street.

however, there isnt really a downside to having a baffled sump, so if yours is out and you can do it easily, go for it.

[DLO01]

My engine is fairly moderately done now. Next is just internals, but I'm stepping back now and ensuring reliability (oil temp/pressure guages etc) but I want to know, for Street (she isnt tracked yet) are Mugen/Spoon Thermostat and Fan Switches a must have?


Without knowing your setup exactly. For street:

Low temp thermostat/fanswitch. Not needed.

Oil cooler. Not needed.

Baffel plate in sump. Not needed.

Guages are always a good thing to have, Water temp, Oil temp, Oil pressure.

[air23box]

Low Temp thermostate open up at 70 degree instead of factory 78 degree...fan switch is the same.....nth really affect ur car to warm up....but will keep it cooler at all time.....not a bad thing to have even your car only a daily one......
On normal street driving you dun need a oil cooler.....coz it hardly go over 100 degree anywayz....for mine when I drive daily it only go up to 90-95 max even I rev hard.....on track it go all the way up to 130+....so if you dun track ur car....save it for something else.....baffel sump you only need it when you track as Mr Will explain what it does.....just prevent ur engine can pump oil under high G cornering.....
Gauges are good things to have so you have all the important data you need at all time.....even daily.....you can compare the different reading when you drive differently....so you understand how ur car behave....hope that helps...

[TypeG]

[quote=air23box;1037861]Low Temp thermostate open up at 70 degree instead of factory 78 degree...fan switch is the same.....nth really affect ur car to warm up....but will keep it cooler at all time.....not a bad thing to have even your car only a daily one......
[quote]

very true... dun listen to ppl who say is useless which is totally WRONG

[shebangs]

Thanks, I think I'll go the guages and really monitor it for a week or two and see how quickly she does heat up.

Obviously, I may drive harder on the street than others, which may need be to get the thermostat and fanswitch, but that will be all be revealing with the guages. Atm, I got nfi how hot she is as Water Temp is semi useless.

[DLO01]

Type G, he is specifically asking if a cooler thermostat/fan switch is a "must have" and as you say, yes they are not 'useless' to have, but they are simply not needed for the street.

Stock cooling is fine for maintaining steady temps for street and engine will run more efficient at the stock temp compared to cooler temps with the cooler thermostat/fanswitch.

Pay near $200 for a thermostat/fan switch that is not needed = waste of money.

[TypeG]

Type G, he is specifically asking if a cooler thermostat/fan switch is a "must have" and as you say, yes they are not 'useless' to have, but they are simply not needed for the street.

Stock cooling is fine for maintaining steady temps for street and engine will run more efficient at the stock temp compared to cooler temps with the cooler thermostat/fanswitch.

Pay near $200 for a thermostat/fan switch that is not needed = waste of money.

they are not as "waste of money" as those Ray nuts and heavy rims as it does help SOMETHING. Cooler the engine, better performance.
If u talk about MUST HAVE, no mod is MUST have as stock standard car are already very safe to drive or else no stock car on the street.:cool:

[air23box]

hey guys....cool down.....lets share our knowledge and help someone.....you both have a point......but lower temperature is not such a big issue coz you are running on street...a few degree doesn't make much different.....you will only notice the different when you go on track......running at a few degree lower the stock have no bad affect what so even to ur car.....the only bad thing is when ur car running at temperature lower then normal then it will coz built up of carbon in the engine and reduce the efficience of ur car....but that won't happen when you do those mods....

[DLO01]

Good discussion all round. PQ points to most.

I also have a low temp themo/fan switch in the R only because its was something for me to do and also looking into the future for the car. It only gets out on weekends.

If it was an everyday street car (which I am glad its not. Gota take care of the R), I would not bother with cooler thermo/fan switch.

[shebangs]

I think some people are slightly confused with the definition of must have.

Air filter on your intake is a must have, doesn't need to be there but good luck with maintaining a healthy engine without one.

And the argument regarding 'stock' is slightly skewed, as you can see my car isn't stock. So although making the assumption stock cooling is fine, although isn't wrong, I think it's worthy keeping in mind that there will be a point it won't be sufficient.

Defininately, I agree, for track, definately oil cooler, baffled sump, thermostat, fanswitch are 100% - but my question is regarding spending that same ~$1500 on a street car.

[DLO01]

Your asking if a cooler thermostat/fan switch is a 'must have' for the street. Is this correct?

Even with your Modded NA car you will never maintain continuous high rpm and therefore high heat on the Street. Stock cooling will cope with ease. Even with my Turbo B16a with stock cooling it did not exceed the stock water temp values on the street.

Therefore:


Without knowing your setup exactly. For street:

Low temp thermostat/fanswitch. Not needed.

Oil cooler. Not needed.

Baffel plate in sump. Not needed.

Guages are always a good thing to have, Water temp, Oil temp, Oil pressure.

[shebangs]

I wasn't arguing with your Deano, just setting the skew of the thread on the right tangent :)

[Mr_will]

Cooler the engine, better performance.


actually no, youre wrong.

your engine needs to be warm in order to burn the maximum amount of fuel in the combustion chamber. if it is too cool, unburnt fuel remains, is wasted, and this means you get less power.

[DLO01]

I wasn't arguing with your Deano, just setting the skew of the thread on the right tangent :)
No, thats fine man. I was just hoping that I was understanding what your understanding.

[Mr_will]

Actually no, you're wrong the difference between standard thermostat and spoon or others is 20 degrees Fahrenheit and that is NOT too Cold. Most manufactures ran their engines at 160 degrees Fahrenheit since the early days of thermostats until the early 1970's when they changed to 180 degrees TO IMPROVE EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS only. Any engine will run perfectly fine at 160 and it will burn it's intake charge with just as much efficiency as at 180 it's just there is a more DENSE charge to burn because it is cooler by 20 degrees.

actually, you failed to read my post correctly. i didnt specify any temperatures, i was disagreeing with the generalised statement that "a cooler engine will produce more power". get off your high horse and realise that i wasnt talking about thermostats, 20degrees fahrenheit, or any of the other garbage you mentioned.

[Mr_will]

Touchy touchy you can say someone is wrong but let someone say THE SAME THING and you get all pissed off???? What were you talking about. The general statement that a cooler engine will make more power is true. What is garbage about FACTS. Give us some facts or examples of what you WERE talking about and take a chill pill.



cooler engine /= more power. cooler air going into the combustion chamber = more power, but as for the rest of the engine, it NEEDS to be hot in order to burn all the fuel. does the fact that unburnt fuel isnt giving you power, escape you?

[EKVTIR-T]

As per usual Mrwill's ego starts another heated debate....:rolleyes:

[TypeG]

Does the fact that any internal combustion engine will run just as efficient at ANY temperature get past you. It's the temperature of the FUEL that makes an engine less efficient. Fuel that is too cold doesn't atomize properly. A engine stone cold runs just as well as one warmed up it's the proper atomization of the fuel that makes a cold engine less efficient than the normal 50% thermal efficiency not the temperature of the engine itself.
dun worry about arguing with someone who doesnt know what thermostat and fanswitch do claymore. :cool:

[air23box]

The fact that I understand they mean cooler.....doesn't mean its that cool.....only a few degree lower then standard and it certainly help to produce more power......what you mean by lower is the engine fail to warm up properly and not in the proper working temp but thats not what we mean by cooler engine......I understand you try to explain if the engine is not in proper working temperature it will increase fuel consumption....but by putting thermo and fan switch will only prolong the life of the engine but not doing any harm of it......

[e240]

I track my car and I dumped the Mugen thermostat infavour of a stock one cause the lower temps was screwing up my computer.

[air23box]

no problem at all for mine tho....how come?

[e240]

no problem at all for mine tho....how come?

Something about the cold idle circuit and that the hondata S100 doesn't overide that part of the stock setting. So the EMS continually reads the engine as being cold and keeps dumping more fuel.

Put the stock thermostat back and everything runs very well...No issue with the stock ones on the track either, with Water Temps around 110dC after about 5 laps at eastern creek.

Oh, I do have a larger radiator though..

[pornstar]

Doesnt Hondata s100 have iat correction?

[e240]

Doesnt Hondata s100 have iat correction?

Apparently not from the issues I've had.

[Spoon DA9R]

is this topic still on? just wondering, looking at ur info u have a dc2 or dc2r rite? coz dc2r engine bay is always really really really hot, even for normal street driving, i won't be able to touch the dip stick too coz its too hot, not sure if having thermostat or fan switch will help u to physically feel it cooler if u are only driving around on the streets, those are really only useful if you track coz my car overheat on winton in Dec when i went flat out for 3 laps...

[pornstar]

if your car overheated at winton in 3 laps then you have a problem with your engine, unless your turbocharged or are running past 10,000rpms, you should have no problems with 3 laps.

[Spoon DA9R]

"when i went flat out for 3 laps..." after i did 3x20 mins sessions and it was during the 3rd session in the last 5 mins when i was trying my ass off chasing down a friend...so yeah...my car have no problem...most stock car being pushed to the point i did without any thermostat of fanswitch will overheat in a hot summer day...

[pornstar]

hmmm weird, cos our modified dc2 doesnt over heat after 10 laps and still has the standard radiator, thermo, thermo fans, and switch and this was ambient temperatures of 33 degrees

[Spoon DA9R]

really? erm...well at first when i did the first 2 sections, did like 10 laps no problem..but it was only when i went FLAT out to chase my friends fully done up dc5r...2nd gear in most corners and pass redline every gear...thats when i had it...but it only went up slowly..like i did last 3 laps like that and each lap it went up 1 bar on the dash...after third lap i just wanted to give my car a break in case....i guess it comes down to how hard the driver pushes it...

[pornstar]

really? erm...well at first when i did the first 2 sections, did like 10 laps no problem..but it was only when i went FLAT out to chase my friends fully done up dc5r...2nd gear in most corners and pass redline every gear...thats when i had it...but it only went up slowly..like i did last 3 laps like that and each lap it went up 1 bar on the dash...after third lap i just wanted to give my car a break in case....i guess it comes down to how hard the driver pushes it...

ahhh there you go thats why :)

[Spoon DA9R]

ahhh there you go thats why :)

i thought thats wot i've been saying all the time..o well

[pornstar]

yeah sorry mate, im a noob

[Spoon DA9R]

me too hahaha

[whtdc2]

What temp is too high?? You need a gauge to tell you...so before your next track day, install a water/ oil temp gauge

[Spoon DA9R]

What temp is too high?? You need a gauge to tell you...so before your next track day, install a water/ oil temp gauge

i want ar..no money..u give me ur 3 din defi lor hahaha...it was 3 bars higher than middle lar...i was chasing tim hahaha

[air23box]

dun worry...ur thermo should be here b4 next track day....