engine conversion for ek1

[AutoNoob]

heya,

i thought of a new plan, screw extractors since they are a waste of money, screw suspension lowering its expensive and pointless,

so i thought how about getting the best super engine that you can fit into a civic ek1

i don't have the cash yet but i plan on spending 10-15 grand for engine conversion

whilst i know i can use 10 g sell ma car and get an alfa or something, but i like civics!!!!

Anyone recommend any powerful engines to put into the ek1, and it doesnt have to be honda.

[simbadda54]

a turbo

[AutoNoob]

nah full engine conversion, phuck turbos, turbos are cheap, something like 5k anyway

[Muzz]

k20a2 from dc5r integra- probably put u up a little over that price range.
Are you after the wank factor from having a cool swap, or do you want the most power for your money? if your after the best power per dollar, turbo it...

Swapping engines from other car manufacturers, IMO would be a complete waste of time and money that wouldnt really give you any better results.
Youd need a fwd engine, of pretty simular size and weight, no one really offers anything thats superior over honda engines, so itd cost alot more for the install, which could of been spent on mods for a honda engine swap.

engines to look into
b18c great performer, expensive
b16a - ditto but lacks torque, cheap
h22a - lots of torque, cheap (more money to spend on modding it), slightly heavier than b series engines
k20a - better than all b series - great torque, easy to mod for great power, rare & expensive.
b20 - lower rev limit, dont know much else

seriously though, your best bet is to stick with a honda swap! dont waste your money...
you wont be doing any "super engine conversion" for the money u want to spend. All north-south engines (rwd) are out of the question, leaving you with not many options for high powered engines. Youll want somthing thats around the same weight as your current engine, unless u dont care for how cappable your car is of handling well, limiting you choices further.

in terms of NA 4 cyl fwd engines around 2lt, i dont believe you can really go past the k20a2, whch are amazing engines.
Once again, if you want massive power, turbo is the way to go.

[Muzz]

screw suspension lowering its expensive and pointless

if you want to improve handling, look into some coilover suspension and also sway bars. i got the same car as you, im running a 24mm fromt swaybar and 22mm rear swaybar, the car handles so much better than stock, corners Much flatter, grips alot harder, feels alot nicer.

[AutoNoob]

alrite sick

so how much would the "k20a" engine conversion cost, plus changing brakes, suspension and all that? and how much is it compared to getting just a turbo?

if i get a price range i can work part time with uni and buy some sick conversion stuff

[Muzz]

mmm really i got no idea, but id say around $13000 for the k20a engine conversion installed - please correct me if im way off anyone.
turbo- say $7000-$9000 for a good setup including ecu + tuning (dont skimp on a tunable ecu, and good tuning), but keep in mind reliability of the engine will be nothing compared to the reliability of swapping in a k20. dont even bother with of the shelf turbo kits, do lots of research and put together your own kit (better result for your money), its been done many times before, lots of people out there willing to help you

k20a conversion would be absolutly awsome in an ek, quick as all hell! i really dont think you need any more power than a k20 provides (in a street car) people have trouble with traction. Visit k20.org (might be k20a.org) to talk specifically to people who have done this swap.

brakes hmmm no idea what itll set you back?
suspension - decent coilovers around $1800-2200, sway bars $750 or so for a set

[taman]

someone here is selling a worked 2.1L b series in the for sale section...

[[[d a n n y]]]

a well built B20 wont have a lower red line
but if u got 10-15K how about K serise engine.
K20-K24 etc

[tune2look]

Search is your friend.... but I always wanted to write something like this....
so here we go~
If I was you, I wouldn't go for K20's.
I k20a swap is yet too pricy for what it is i think.
For that kinda swap on your car will just create more and more headache and a big shopping list.
I am not trying to be against ek1's as I drive one but it truely is a "s--t box".
Seats make you dance when turning, no tacho, 1cm radiator(LOL).... get it?
So... these are some list you might think about before you say "ENGINE CONVERSION!!"
Brakes - If your car cant stop, why would you go fast?
ek1 has a s--ty brakes and even OEM big brake upgrade needs better knuckles!
It also even gives you an option to spend extra on drum to disc for rear! LOL

Shock/S - The car rolls, instead of turning....
ek1... again has a soft as shocks and 4wd like springs..

Sway/b or anti Roll/b - Ek1 has none. No front, No rear!
sub frames very weak!

Exhaust - What can we do with our drink straws!!!

Chassis - No Chassis enforcement at all!!! Not even front tower bar!

There are more but I say even these will end up costing nearly your budget with labour.
Suspension-wise, coilover, sway/b's, re-enforcement, camber....etc setup will cost you at least 3k for parts only...
If I was you, then I would spend some on handling mods first, then think about power upgrades.
For your budget, you still have enough to get a B-swap!
Or, if get another car, its gonna be ultimate "DC2R" (Well... for me anyway...)
Please bare in mind, there are nothing you can reuse off your EK1 on conversions!!!
Wise spending and GL!!!

[xtercii]

Isn’t that the fun part and the point of it to change and modify things on your car?

[SiReal]

sell and buy an EK4. its pointless and stupid spending the same amount of money that your car is worth onto your car. I know you love your car, but you can also learn to love another car.

F20B ftw!

[Menzy]

Search is your friend.... but I always wanted to write something like this....
so here we go~
If I was you, I wouldn't go for K20's.
I k20a swap is yet too pricy for what it is i think.
For that kinda swap on your car will just create more and more headache and a big shopping list.
I am not trying to be against ek1's as I drive one but it truely is a "s--t box".
Seats make you dance when turning, no tacho, 1cm radiator(LOL).... get it?
So... these are some list you might think about before you say "ENGINE CONVERSION!!"
Brakes - If your car cant stop, why would you go fast?
ek1 has a s--ty brakes and even OEM big brake upgrade needs better knuckles!
It also even gives you an option to spend extra on drum to disc for rear! LOL

Shock/S - The car rolls, instead of turning....
ek1... again has a soft as shocks and 4wd like springs..

Sway/b or anti Roll/b - Ek1 has none. No front, No rear!
sub frames very weak!

Exhaust - What can we do with our drink straws!!!

Chassis - No Chassis enforcement at all!!! Not even front tower bar!

There are more but I say even these will end up costing nearly your budget with labour.
Suspension-wise, coilover, sway/b's, re-enforcement, camber....etc setup will cost you at least 3k for parts only...
If I was you, then I would spend some on handling mods first, then think about power upgrades.
For your budget, you still have enough to get a B-swap!
Or, if get another car, its gonna be ultimate "DC2R" (Well... for me anyway...)
Please bare in mind, there are nothing you can reuse off your EK1 on conversions!!!
Wise spending and GL!!!


There are some things you need to consider, i have an Ek1 that has 4wheel disc brakes... which you can always do after you settle the new engine in.
also an upgrade to ITR brakes with 5stud is the best you can do, or if you have the 4disc brakes like me, you can just work on them and give them more stopping power.

ill be doing an engine conversion very soon and considering how much time and research i have done it will be good to have one of the above engines muzz mentioned (B18c, k20a) etc in a small car.

a few people have done these conversions and are very happy with the results.

best thing to do IMO is to get your self a half cut and work your way through it hehehe

[Muzz]

sell and buy an EK4. its pointless and stupid spending the same amount of money that your car is worth onto your car. I know you love your car, but you can also learn to love another car.

F20B ftw!

Whats different between the ek1s and ek4s? im guessing ek1 is 96-98 & ek4 is 99-00????



I am not trying to be against ek1's as I drive one but it truely is a "s--t box".
Seats make you dance when turning, no tacho, 1cm radiator(LOL).... get it?
So... these are some list you might think about before you say "ENGINE CONVERSION!!"
Brakes - If your car cant stop, why would you go fast?
ek1 has a s--ty brakes and even OEM big brake upgrade needs better knuckles!
It also even gives you an option to spend extra on drum to disc for rear! LOL

Shock/S - The car rolls, instead of turning....
ek1... again has a soft as shocks and 4wd like springs..

Sway/b or anti Roll/b - Ek1 has none. No front, No rear!
sub frames very weak!

Exhaust - What can we do with our drink straws!!!

Chassis - No Chassis enforcement at all!!! Not even front tower bar!

There are more but I say even these will end up costing nearly your budget with labour.
Suspension-wise, coilover, sway/b's, re-enforcement, camber....etc setup will cost you at least 3k for parts only...
If I was you, then I would spend some on handling mods first, then think about power upgrades.
For your budget, you still have enough to get a B-swap!
Or, if get another car, its gonna be ultimate "DC2R" (Well... for me anyway...)
Please bare in mind, there are nothing you can reuse off your EK1 on conversions!!!
Wise spending and GL!!!

good post, but i think your making his situation sound alot worse than it actually is, compared to if he got a vti-r.

brakes- even with a vti-r or whatever, he'll need to upgrade his brakes when he does an engine swap. except needs to do a rear drum to disk conversion.
say $400 extra. mind me asking whats wrong with the nuckles? are they prone to failure, or the just dont work with most oem upgrades?

tacho - you dont need one. i drive a cxi that didnt come with tacho, read the manual, it tells you what speeds the redlines at for each gear, for me its 50kph in 1st, 90kph in 2nd........ i have absoulutly no probs using speedo as the tacho, no differance at all.

Radiator - if i was doing a b18c or k20 into an ek, id be upgrading the radiator anyway. if he got a front cut, would he be able to use the radiator made for the engine?

seats - they must be different to the 99 ek4s, cus mine hold me fine. say $800 for a pair of cheaper bucket seats

springs/shocks & swaybar - even if he got the vtir, id still be upgrading the springs shocks and swaybars, so no extra cost there, except as you mentioned the week subframe, so itll need a good brace (ASR, comptech) for a rear bar. say $350 to brace the subframe.

exhaust - im sure in time he would be using an aftermarket exhaust any way, no matter what car he starts with, so i dont see the fact, that his current exhaust is small, will be an extra cost at all. in my cxi ek4 the exhaust seems to be about 2" all through, till the muffler. This isnt too small for say a b18c (im guessing maby the ek1s have a different exhaust cus 2" is fine).
for a k20 swap- whatever model of ek, its my belief that u need to do the exhaust anyway.

chassis - what extra bracing do the vtir civics have over an ek1 cxi? i believe the only difference is a strut brace and thicker metal wher the rear sway bar mounts to the subframe. ive seen the Oem strut braces go 2nd hand between $50 -$100 plenty of times. Subframe brace quickly fixes the subframe flaw.

i chose my cxi ek4 over a vtir because alot of the extras that come on the vtir would be getting replaced in the future, i was going for a gli, because of the rear disks, but i got the cxi for a great price the savings i made were much more than it would cost me to do a rear disk conversion

last year, when i got my car the b16a vtir was about $5-$7000 more than the cxi. IMO if plans for a future swap were there, that money could be better spent prepping a gli or cxi for the swap. it would easily cover the better seats, front strut brace, tacho, exhaust, drum to disk conversion (the oem brake upgrade not included, cus with a swap, all versions of ek will need it), and youd still have money left to help with coilovers and swaybars

i agree with u tune2look, about working on the handling before the engine, thats the exact approach im taking too.

This is the order im doin/done my cxi.
1. whiteline 24mm front & 22mm rear swaybars + asr subframe brace ($870)
2. coilovers buddyclub n+ ($1500using oem top mounts, option imports)
3. Rear disk conversion & oem upgrade to what he will need to have the swap legal. ($500 installed for drum - disk + $no idea for OEm uprgade)
4. Strut brace ($200-$300)

Up to this point, i doubt youd be paying much for labor, all pretty easy to diy.

5. Maby bushings depending on condition ($300-$400)
5. Engine conversion (b18c)+ things that might be needed eg. exhaust, radiator etc... (guessing say $10000 all up installed)

if i got a vtir to start this, id be doing all of these mods still, except for the drum to disc conversion, so $400 or so dollars more all up, when the car is $5000 less.

[Zdster]

Whats different between the ek1s and ek4s? im guessing ek1 is 96-98 & ek4 is 99-00????



There are lots of comments in this thread that I disagree with. Just some points:

ek1's are not 96-98 and ek4's 99-00.
ek1 are cxi's and gli's (d16y4)
ek4 are vti-r's (b16) - only offered 96-98

The ek1 exhaust isnt 2", its smaller. That being said, no matter which block you were to put in you would look at putting in a different system.

I have no idea what the reference to upgrading of knuckles comes from. To date I havent read or heard of this anywhere.

As SiReal pointed out, there is significant advantage at what base model you start with, however that being said, the fun of modifying is to change up what you have got in your own personal style. If you want something different look into an f series block.

[bennjamin]

also ~ the EK1 sedan and later EK1 hatches came with EK4 front brakes + knuckle.

[Menzy]

^^ what he said :D ... looks at my car lol :P

[xtercii]

also ~ the EK1 sedan and later EK1 hatches came with EK4 front brakes + knuckle.

My 97 Gli appears to have the same caliper and same size disc when compared to my gf's em1?

[tune2look]

Whats different between the ek1s and ek4s? im guessing ek1 is 96-98 & ek4 is 99-00????

ek1 is sohc non vtec and ek4 is dohc vtec. big difference.


ASR does not take whiteline i believe....
and strut brace,or tower bar will cost a lot more then that if you are planning to get more then just front.

and actually my point was that its not just engine conversion that is to worry about.
k20a conversion will cost close to 10~15k budget. or even more depending on where you do it.
d16y4 to k20a is truely a great improvement, but will not be an easy car to handle.
Shocks and springs are too too soft and will lose grip when turning, you will not be able to dodge hazards on high speed.
There are more and more...
All I am trying to say is that 10~15k budget to install a super engine does not mean the car is good enough.
Balance it!
As long as its not "K20A with drums" kinda tuning, I am all in. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



also, d16y4 is a great engine. its $10 per killowatts as in price wise(too cheap!!!), and it goes hard for what they are I reckon.

[tune2look]

I have no idea what the reference to upgrading of knuckles comes from. To date I havent read or heard of this anywhere.


96~98 ek1 front knuckles arent good enough to take bigger discs and calipers...
caliper bracket wont fit.

[Muzz]

dam, so my 99 cxi ek is an ek1, i thought i read ek4 on the id plate.
lol, i know first hand about the imcompatibility of the whiteline with asr combo! http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38433&page=6 however i fixed it up and its been working fine for ages.


The ek1 exhaust isnt 2", its smaller. That being said, no matter which block you were to put in you would look at putting in a different system.


nar it is definatly 2" piping, i just went and measured, however that is only up till where the muffler bolts to the exhaust. but yeah, no matter which ek you start with youd probably end up going to a different exhaust.

i totally agree with what your saying tune2look, doing a conversion isnt just the cost for the engine and getting it put it in, theres other stuff to take into consideration.
i just dont believe paying the $4000- $7000 extra for the ek4, is the better option when swapping an engine into the ek chassis. that $4k - $7k could be much better spent on an ek1 preping the suspension and brakes for the upcoming swap.:thumbsup:

apart form the engine differences between ek1 and ek4, there really isnt many major differences between the 2 chassis.
only other real benifits reguarding handling i see are-
-front strut brace
-thicker swaybar mount points
-swaybars (i believe the spring and shock combo is the same between the ek1&4??????)
-rear disc brakes
-and knuckles as youve mentioned

however i do see a grate benifit in starting with a gli over cxi, to save doing the rear drum to disk conversion.

[tune2look]

Definately go for gli if vti-r isnt in option.
at least you will have a power windows that bives you comfort....
I got a spal universal kit and that was extra cash I had to spend too....
old manual windows are bxxch to roll up!!!