Muzz's head rebuilding thread.

[Muzz]

Hey guys, i just brought a p72-1 head that i wish to clean up, and prepare for a hard life on top of a circuit racing engine. I am stripping it down, testing if it is healthy, and rebuilding it if it is.

I will have lots of quuestions that need answering in the process, so have created this thread to keep them all in the one place instead messily spread out through ozhonda.

Im currently in the process of stripping everything from the head, for cleaning.
What are these 'lost motion assembly's that are between the valve springs? They are a little button thingy, that the middle lobe on the camshaft pushes down on.
How are they removed? From how it looks in the service manual, im guessing it is pulled straight out of the head:confused: if so this wont be easy to do, they are slippery!! is there a special tool used to pull them?

Cheers!


Edit: dont worry, ive worked it out, a little bit of twisting at the same time as pulling does it. But what do these things do?

[Muzz]

Next question. is there any of the big name stores such as supercheap, autobarn, etc. that stock plastiguage. i cant be bothered ordering it, i want it now, where are the best places to find it?

[ECU-MAN]

when VTEC is not engaged, the middle arm is free to move on its cam lobe.

the LMA takes the lash out of the movement until VTEC is engaged and all three arms are connected together then run off the VTEC lobe and the valves take the lash.

my thoery on how they work :)


plasti gauge is pretty easy to find.

try repco.

[Muzz]

cheers mate.

[EfiOz]

Next question. is there any of the big name stores such as supercheap, autobarn, etc. that stock plastiguage. i cant be bothered ordering it, i want it now, where are the best places to find it?

A good Repco store might have it but they'vemostly turned into Autobarn's these days.

We get it from Nasons down here. If you come up trumps, drop me a line and I'll send you some up.

[Slow96GSR]

Any auto parts store should have it. Make sure to use the right size (Green I think.) as the red is too big and will give you incorrect readings, unless it is the size you need to use.

[Muzz]

Reading up on the net, it dosent mention anything about cleaning the oil off the parts that will be checked when testing clearances. Im guessing that its a good idea to remove as much of the oil as possible before checking the clearances on the camshaft, or does it not matter too much:confused:

[Samo]

just send the head away to machine shop to be serviced ..
they'll acid dip and check all the bits and come back nice and clean ... usually cost abt $250 or so

also not a bad idea to deck the head... just minimal to resurface it ... abt $40-50

[Muzz]

Cheers mate, thatd be the easiest way, im more interested in doing as much as i can myself though.

Im taking it to donnely engineering in southport ASAP to have alot of the stuff i cant do myself done.
There going to - remove springs/valves/retainers, clean it all up, check all the clearances that im not capable of doing, x-ray it for cracks.

Then ill seal it all up and store it while i save for springs/valves/retainers, valve guides, all new seals and gaskets, cams, port and polish, valve job etc. etc.....

[Samo]

if u are going to do that... then why not just remove head internals and acid dip and wait fo fund to get aftermarket cam,valves,etc

no need to check and clean old parts ... just wasting money if u are getting them to do it for u

if u add all the bit u wanna do to head that u mentioned ... looks like it'll add up to too much $$$

[Muzz]

if u are going to do that... then why not just remove head internals and acid dip and wait fo fund to get aftermarket cam,valves,etc

no need to check and clean old parts ... just wasting money if u are getting them to do it for u


Thats what i am doing, getting them to remove the valves for me & getting the head cleaned. Only difference is that im getting it checked for cracks, and checking if the clearances are ok. Obviously better off to do it now, than buying all the internal bits then finding out the head ive got is overly worn. Definatly the cheaper option!



if u add all the bit u wanna do to head that u mentioned ... looks like it'll add up to too much $$$

Once i know the heads in good condition, im going to buy all the bits im after.
Once ive got all the bits im after, im going to have it ported and decked, and assemble it.

Sorry but i dont see where the extra dollars come into play, nor any other way to do it cheaper. Keeping in mind, i strongly refuse to buy parts for it until i know it is in good condition:confused:

If you know a cheaper way, im open to any ideas to save money....

[Muzz]

Ok next question, ive searched but cant find my answer.
I need to order a few OEM seals and stuff that should be replaced. Is there anywhere online that i can view a listing of honda part numbers for the things i need? or would i just go to a dealer and get them to find out what parts it is i need?

I know of Acuraautomotiveparts.com (a US website), but as you can see, they from - http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INTEGRA&catcgry2=1994&catcgry3=3DR+GS-R&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+HEAD+(2)&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=&vinnoT=&trim=&trans=&view=normal,
it dosnt show the small fiddely bits i need. For example, a seal that goes around the dowel pin in the center of the block, seals for in the rocker arm orifice's, and crush? washers for the rocker arm seal bolts etc.......


i have seen kits such as - http://www.streetimports.com/product_details.asp?id=703
and - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ACURA-INTEGRA-GSR-TYPE-R-B18C-HEAD-GASKET-SET-HHSB18V_W0QQitemZ140078199954QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33 667QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/B-Series-Engine-Rebuild-Gasket-Kit-Honda-B16A-B18C-Head_W0QQitemZ170074289794QQihZ007QQcategoryZ33667 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What do you guys (people who have done this stuff before) think of using kits like these? is the quality equal to OEM quality?
Does honda offer a head rebuild kit at all? Seems likely since there are a lot of parts they say too replace in the workshop manual, easier to sell a kit instead of gathering all the seperate parts, for any honda workshop doing a head rebuild:confused:

[EG5[KRT]]

id prob buy

valve stem seals
new head gasket
look at getting head studs
cam seals
rocker cover gaskets...

not sure what else..

[Muzz]

cheers mate, i know what i wanna buy, but lol, i got no idea how to get it. I recon if i went into the dealership and got them to order me all the peices im after, from past experiances, at least a few of them would be the wrong bits, and id need them to re order. Somthing i cant be screwed dealing around with.

if those kits i posted are equal quality with oem parts, there lookin like the simplest option right about now.

[Muzz]

Ok i dont think ive mentioned it yet, but tis head will be used on a road racing engine, it wont ever see the street, the block will be fulley built.

What do you guys think of the buddyclub racing spec 5 extream camshaft. these are the specs

intake - 312 degrees duration, 12.8mm lift, 1mm open @ 35deg btdc & 52deg abdc.

exhaust - 306 degrees duration, 11.8mm lift, 1mm open @ 62deg bbdc & 32deg atdc.

They are advitised as the wildest racing cam on the market. Is there any negatives in going for the wildest cam possible, if the rest of the engine is built around this choice? I know that there are lots of other instances reguarding engines, where bigger dosnt always equal better.

Heres what buddyclub say:
Developed, tested and proven by Buddy Club's own race teams and engineers, the Racing Spec 5 camshafts are absolutely the most aggressive design in camshaft technology available today. Utilizing Buddy Club's patent pending lobe forming technology was used to increase low to mid-range torque and yet have an astonishing 12.8mm lift for explosive high-end power! These cams do not sacrifice low end power for top end gain! This is unlinke anything you have experieneced before. Available and in-stock now! MSRP: $728/pr- Designed for racing engines with high compression (normally aspirated)

-12.8mm intake lift and 11.8mm exhaust lift for top-end power
- Patent pending lobe forming technology for low to midrange power
- SMOOTH CONSTANT POWER THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE RPM RANGE!
- (From idle to 9500RPM)
- Requires Buddy Club high compression valves, valve springs, and retainer set
- At least a 12.5:1 Compression Ratio is recommended
- Professional installation and calibration is highly recommended
- ( Additional piston valve clearancing is required)

Buddy Club's patent pending lobe forming technology allows engineers to create uniquely shaped cam lobes that unleash power from areas that other camshafts are simply not capable of finding. Other brands try to approach Buddy Club's cam profiles, but can never surpass it, nor equal it.
When you choose Buddy Club camshafts, you will be proud to own what years and years of racing data and experience have guided us to develop. We offer exactly what we use to win race after race and there simply is no compromise. We believe in our own products 110%

Buddy Club camshafts are designed to produce increased power all throughout the RPM range of your engine from idle to redline! With Buddy Club cams, you will not find a dramatic power surges, even when VTEC transitions. What you will find is an extremely smooth and predictable power curve that you can use to power in, through, and out of each corner and still have what it takes to dominate the straights!

With Buddy Club, there is no trial and error...

EDIT:
i didnt realise, but buddyclub also offer a spec 6 "extream camshaft"
these are the specs:

intake - 319 degrees duration, 11.8mm lift (1mm less than the spec 5s), 1mm open @ 23deg btdc & 50deg abdc.

exhaust - 307 degrees duration, 11.88mm lift, 1mm open @ 14deg bbdc & 49deg atdc.

to make them more easy to compare, here are the specs for the spec5s again

intake - 312 degrees duration, 12.8mm lift, 1mm open @ 35deg btdc & 52deg abdc.

exhaust - 306 degrees duration, 11.8mm lift, 1mm open @ 62deg bbdc & 32deg atdc.

the price is advirtised as $728/pr on the AU buddyclub site.

[TODA AU]

LOL...
Spec 5 duration @ 1mm
Intake = 267deg - LCA 98.5deg (12.8mm total lift)
Exhaust = 274deg - LCA 105deg (11.8mm total lift)

Spec 6 duration @ 1mm
Intake = 253deg - LCA 103.5deg (11.8mm total lift)
Exhaust = 243deg - LCA 107.5deg (11.88mm total lift)

Think about it

[Muzz]

sorry im pretty noobish and have quite a lot to learn when it comes to engine stuff, so at 1mm+ of lift, the duration is only 267 and 274 for the spec 5s, ie. not that good? This is what i should be more concerned with, duration at 1mm lift?

Whats the LCA stand for?

[TODA AU]

PM sent

[Slaz]

Lobe Centre Angle.