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SiR
31-01-2007, 12:28 PM
Honda is reshaping itself from the high-revving sports car brand of the 1990s to a more mundane bread-and-butter brand in an effort to become one of Australia's top four by 2010.
In a move similar to that made by Toyota in the last decade, Honda has shed a number of under-selling models from its line-up and is chasing aggressive growth through its core models. Honda may also replicate Toyota's move with Lexus by bringing its own premium brand, Acura, to Australia, but not before 2011 at the earliest.
"Our goal is to sell 80,000 vehicles in 2010," Honda Australia's managing director Toshio Iwamoto told drive.com.au at the launch of the third generation CR-V 4WD earlier this week.
Honda's head office in Japan has set aggressive sales targets for the Australian subsidiary – 80,000 cars a year by 2010. Honda's sales have grown strongly from 30,817 in 2003 to 54,202 in 2006. Honda is currently Australia's fifth best-selling brand, and will likely cement fourth place behind Toyota, Holden and Ford if it achieves the ambitious 2010 target.
"We can do this with our existing models, but we could achieve this easier if we can fill a few gaps in our range. We can't increase volume without the right products."
"We definitely need a 5-door hatch in the small car segment. Look at the Toyota Corolla, the Mazda 3, the Nissan Tiida. Roughly speaking the hatchback makes up 50 per cent of sales. So we are not playing in 50 per cent of the small car market."
The Honda Civic has been a sales success for Honda since it launched in 2006, consistently racking up 1000 sales a month. A hatch could, Toshio believes, add 12-15,000 sales to Honda's current total.
But the Honda cupboard is bare. The only right-hand-drive five-door Civic hatchback is built at the Swindon plant in the United Kingdom, and exchange rates and tariffs would make it too expensive if imported to Australia.
Toshio has not ruled out a British Civic hatch, but says "it would be a low volume option only. Perhaps we [can] bring in a limited number of the high performance, 3-dr Type R model. I do not know."



Toshio is also considering building a more cost-competitive version of the Civic hatchback in Thailand to take advantage of Australia's free trade agreement. Thailand will have the capacity once the second production line is completed in 2008, but Honda is unlikely to green-light hatch production before Civic enters its next model life cycle in 2011/12.
Honda Australia currently sources 75 per cent of its range from Thailand, namely the new CR-V compact 4WD, the Jazz light hatch, Civic small car and Accord medium sedan.


MDX, NSX no future in Oz

Honda Australia has stopped importing the MDX prestige four-wheel drive, and has no plans for a replacement, says Iwamoto.
"We sold about 3000 [MDX] in four years which was good, but it is very hard to compete against the European brands like like BMW, Audi, Volkswagen and Volvo. We are trying to get a replacement for the MDX but it is very difficult. Japan does not take it, and we depend on Japan to help us build up an argument for right-hand drive."
A new MDX will be built, but only in left hand drive and only for the American market under Honda's premium channel, Acura.
Same for the all-new high-performance NSX replacement which Honda previewed in concept form at Detroit in January.
Honda is determined to establish Acura as a global player, the brand entered the Japanese market last year, and so is keen to protect Acura's uniqueness by not allowing any of its cars to be rebadged or sold through Honda.
For countries like Australia in which Acura does not have a presence, that means no MDX, no NSX replacement, no Accord coupe and no future Acuras – until Honda Australia hits 100,000 sales.
"We would need to reach 100,000 sales in Australia before we could consider bringing Acura in," said Toshio, "because we would need this kind of volume to support the Acura brand which would be a low volume proposition."
Iwamoto would like to do something sooner to give Honda back the performance reputation it established in the 1990s.
"We really miss the sporty models, the sporty reputation we had," Iwamoto candidly revealed to drive.com.au.
Honda built its reputation in the 1990s with a range of hot hatches (Civic VTi-R, Integra Type-R) and open-top sports cars (CRX, S2000) - and the revolutionary mid-engine NSX supercar that forced Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche and others to 'civilise' their own unruly supercars.
We need some spice in our range," Toshio-san told drive.com.au at the launch of the Honda CR-V in Tasmania earlier this week. "But it looks like, for a couple of years, we have to survive on bread and butter models."


http://drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=23096&vf=2

aaronng
31-01-2007, 01:06 PM
That is so sad.... I thought they would at least keep a variant with sports suspension and a hi-po engine like the Type R.

If they want to sell over 100,000 cars, then they should do it the Toyota way. Do fleet sales...

m3ntAL_l2
31-01-2007, 01:14 PM
y r they bring the Acura into japan>? dosent acura n honda makes teh same cars? :S

tseesinngwailo
31-01-2007, 01:15 PM
I am going to cry now...

matt
31-01-2007, 01:22 PM
well they better change their advertising then, cos the cardigan wearing population that they are chasing wont give a feck about racing.

aaronng
31-01-2007, 01:25 PM
y r they bring the Acura into japan>? dosent acura n honda makes teh same cars? :S

Acura used to use many Honda models. But that is not the case anymore. The only Hondas in the Acura line now are the RL (Legend) and TSX (Accord Euro). Although... Acura Canada does get the Thai-style Civic as their CSX.

The MDX that we used to get was an Acura rebadged as a Honda. :)

Acura even has a 2.3L turbocharged vtec engine in the RDX!

SiReal
31-01-2007, 02:09 PM
guys, lifes been great. its been great knowing you all. i'm jumping ship over to nissan! NOT! haha.

ABS121
31-01-2007, 02:30 PM
This is absolute Bulls*&t, if other car companies in australia can sell interesting cars then so can honda, they are selling so many cars now there is no reason why they cant spice up their line up with a few niche models. I

Its bad enough they screw us over with the severe lack of options and upgrades on the cars available now.

Honda needs to grow some balls and take a few risks if they want to grow, we already have enough dull car makers selling whitegoods on wheels.

rhk
31-01-2007, 02:35 PM
man thats rediculous. having said that though, i suppose the honda market these days is more towards the family aspect rather than sports.

civis/euros/accords/jazzs and also integras - sales are going through the roof

and yet the s2000 and MDX are selling pretty weakly last time i heard

its sad but unless they get a bigger market for sports orientated hondas there is not going to be much development.

they are just going to continue doing what they do best and thats sell family orientated cars.


i guess if we all went out and bought an s2000 then it may change something lol

ABS121
31-01-2007, 02:38 PM
yes but people buy cars because they aspire to owing the hero model of that range, if you dont have any hero cars your not going to draw the crowds.

you sell the bread and butter cars to subsidies the NSX's and s2000's

rhk
31-01-2007, 05:45 PM
thats also true. but having said that from the article i only gathered that the nsx wasnt going to be continued in australia but the new nsx will still be available in japan?

EuroDude
31-01-2007, 05:45 PM
The new Civic hatch would do very well here imo, why cant they simply manufacturer them in Thailand instead of just Britain?

DreadAngel
31-01-2007, 05:49 PM
Honda Australia can dream about 100K sales, it'll never happen ha... ha I tell you... ha... try the year 2020 before we hit that :P

aaronng
31-01-2007, 06:03 PM
The new Civic hatch would do very well here imo, why cant they simply manufacturer them in Thailand instead of just Britain?

Because Thailand is already building the Civic and Accord sedans, Jazz and maybe the CRV as well (they need to build a new production line if they want to produce more models).

Also, the Civic hatch was UK designed, so it's made there. Just like how the Falcon & Commodore are Oz designed and built here. Would you manufacture your own "exclusive" design in a country other than here? :p

Chris_F
31-01-2007, 06:07 PM
"if honda does not race there is no honda"



lol - now they won't even have a true sports car for a couple of years? kinda ironic... though i heard rumours about the CTR comming here

EuroDude
31-01-2007, 06:18 PM
Because Thailand is already building the Civic and Accord sedans, Jazz and maybe the CRV as well (they need to build a new production line if they want to produce more models).

Also, the Civic hatch was UK designed, so it's made there. Just like how the Falcon & Commodore are Oz designed and built here. Would you manufacture your own "exclusive" design in a country other than here? :p

Surely Brazil or even Japan could manufacturer them.

The Euro was a UK design wasnt it? That one spread all over the world.

panda[cRx]
31-01-2007, 07:47 PM
If they want to sell over 100,000 cars, then they should do it the Toyota way. Do fleet sales...

2 words COMMERCIAL VEHICLES

in the top 5 selling manufacturers in aus honda is the only one not making any form of commercial vehicle.... hence it lagging behind mazda.
all the locally made manufacturer sales are going down, honda's is steadily going up while mazda is slowing creeping up (according to latest figures i've seen)

we really need to get our type r's back. ITR not gonna happen, in fact you'll struggle to find any dc5 still available NEW. CTR is a definite possibility, i need to try and dig some more info outta the tech guys at honda hq next time i speak to em :p.
but yeah if we dont get the ctr's we need k20 jazzes...... or SOMETHING!!


Because Thailand is already building the Civic and Accord sedans, Jazz and maybe the CRV as well (they need to build a new production line if they want to produce more models).


pretty sure the new 07's are made in thailand. also there has been talk of civic production in thailand, but haven't heard any rumours on that one for a while =/

ShAwNeX
31-01-2007, 07:50 PM
O...M...G...

:( :honda: :eek:

**Ghost**
31-01-2007, 08:59 PM
honda is officially considering new cars the most boring jap brand next to nissan... but i guess $$$ is a better option than catering for a niche market... i just wish they would stop the "power of dreams" slogan with formula one cars zooming past.

Mazda i suppose is the new most "exciting" marque with teh whole zoom zoom thing... Toyota is apparently making a bid of teh "exciting" too with the introduction of TRD variants of vehicles throughout this year...

Mitsu also

vupham
01-02-2007, 01:26 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............
So should i feel proud owning the last gen integra type s?
As much as i want to keep it because its going to be the last honda sport coupe for a while, im selling it o_O So does it mean the price of the type s going to be more valuable now?

Btw, im sad now because since ever i bought the integra, i love honda and their sports car.

panda[cRx]
01-02-2007, 06:54 AM
honda is officially considering new cars the most boring jap brand next to nissan... but i guess $$$ is a better option than catering for a niche market... i just wish they would stop the "power of dreams" slogan with formula one cars zooming past.

Mazda i suppose is the new most "exciting" marque with teh whole zoom zoom thing... Toyota is apparently making a bid of teh "exciting" too with the introduction of TRD variants of vehicles throughout this year...

Mitsu also
i gotta disagree there...

it's been said from both the media and public over recent years that toyota is BLAND and boring so they would have to hold the #1 boring spot

mazda's recent range has given their sales a shot in the bum. they have cars competing with the jazz, civic and even the euro atm. they even have the 'MPS' vehicles. they are stealing sales from honda as:
1) doesn't have anything sporty and
2) honda can't/won't bring enough civics into australia to meed demand, so many people are going to buy mazda 3's. not many people looking to buy a new car are willing to wait 3-4months when a similar option can be picked up the same day.

honda just has the same lineup as the last few years (minus anything sporty), with the only new vehicles being the civic and the crv. honda again won't be supplying enough crv's to meet demand so that will be more sales lost imho.
gay :thumbdwn:

having said that i'd still prefer vehicles from the current honda range over anything else jap made (bar the evo or maybe an liberty gt :p).

JasonGilholme
01-02-2007, 06:58 AM
I agree that Mazda is the most "exciting" atm.

Having they new Rx-8 has made everyone turn and look and i just saw on tv a new ad for the CX7. Dunno what it is but its a hatch (hopefully rotory), and should sell well because its got the same styling as the RX8, which most people love, and the fact that its aimed at family's. I dunno what the performance is like yet tho.

panda[cRx]
01-02-2007, 08:55 AM
cx7 is a lux 4wd. i'm guessing halfway between the crv and the mdx?

JasonGilholme
01-02-2007, 09:01 AM
ahh ok cool. It looked like a 4 door hatch/wagon thingo. (i only caught the last few seconds of it).

I actually thought it was another RX8 but then it said CX7. I think your right about it being between the CRV and MDX

**Ghost**
01-02-2007, 09:36 AM
;1051315']i gotta disagree there...

it's been said from both the media and public over recent years that toyota is BLAND and boring so they would have to hold the #1 boring spot

mazda's recent range has given their sales a shot in the bum. they have cars competing with the jazz, civic and even the euro atm. they even have the 'MPS' vehicles. they are stealing sales from honda as:
1) doesn't have anything sporty and
2) honda can't/won't bring enough civics into australia to meed demand, so many people are going to buy mazda 3's. not many people looking to buy a new car are willing to wait 3-4months when a similar option can be picked up the same day.

honda just has the same lineup as the last few years (minus anything sporty), with the only new vehicles being the civic and the crv. honda again won't be supplying enough crv's to meet demand so that will be more sales lost imho.
gay :thumbdwn:

having said that i'd still prefer vehicles from the current honda range over anything else jap made (bar the evo or maybe an liberty gt :p).

Don't get me wrong toyota is still borign atm... but consider the future and the way they are going with the push for TRD in australia and it sounds sweet.

Nissan in australia is a mostly 4wd affair... aside from 350z, they make nothing worth owning in australia.

But yes, mazda is the best today i reckon... having driven sp23 (lets not even compare mps) mazda 3s and civic sport... mazda 3 seems so much mroe of a sparts car..

EfiOz
01-02-2007, 09:51 AM
That's great!! Leaves the way open for me to start importing CTR's!

EuroDude
01-02-2007, 10:12 AM
^ lol thats a good point.

Has anyone imported an Acura from the U.S? Ive never seen one on the road..

alexander_the
01-02-2007, 10:22 AM
http://drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=23096&vf=2

I could not believe my eyes when I read this article, not because I am Honda lunatic (that too), but from simple business logic!!!:thumbdwn: Honda was always a sports car brand, its part in F1 racing and other events grew its image as innovative and forward looking companies. Now - with no sports car presence on the OZ market and cars coming from Thailand, I think Honda's CEO is very naive that they will be selling 80000 cars a year in OZ!!! It is so bizzare - Toyota is trying its hardest to establish itself in the niche where Honda ruled for last 25 years and Honda seems to vocate this position without a battle

Very Sad!!!

A.G.System
01-02-2007, 01:23 PM
Hello, I am Helen!.
And even though this my first post here, I for a long time on this forum www.ozhonda.com I'm not sure if this should go here or in the GENERAL DISCUSS section,
so if it's in the wrong place, my apologies (and can someone move it please! EXCUSE uneducated girl). I just loved this topic.
Honestly we should start some movement or society. Anyway I'm also one of those people who enjoy to discuss "http://www.ozhonda.com".
In my opinion it would be a lot better to get some fact into our STUFF. I'll glad read all new information about this topic
Thanks a lot..!!
Helen V. Beden.

SPAMBOT????

On another note.

Has anyone here actually considered what the guy in the opening post was saying?( the artical that is).

If they are able to compete with the larger 4 companies they are going to have to ramp up production and sales.
To do this they are going to have to create a market that fills the voids.

You will notice that currently both Holden and Ford are starting to push their smaller cars. The reason for this is that the larger car market is becoming too expensive to justify.
This means that as the stability of these cars as fleet cars becomes under pressure other car makers can fill them voids. Thus honda can wiggle itself into the fleet market.

Notice also that the police are starting to drop the commodores and falcons as their standard cop cars for the new Toyota Aurion.
Mainly due to the car having a stable future and proven production/sales history (lets face it V8s are a thing of the past).

Another interesting thing that you may want to take into consideration is that Mitsubishi is pretty much only held up by the Lancer brand of cars in Australia. Because the 380 is the kind of car you wouldn't piss on if it was on fire. And don't get me started on the Colt.
As Mitsi start closing down local production you will notice that their fleet car sales will also leave a gap in the market. Resulting in another place that Honda could possible pick up sales.

But as we all know unless people are prepared to PAY for premium cars they are not built. How many of you guys out there have bought a (example sake) EG civic breeze. Then spent another crap load on it to make it into the top of the range SI?? The cost of the conversion, suspension, extras etc all add up. Say all up it cost you $25k. If you could have picked up a new model type-R civic for that same price would you have done so??

The reason i bring this up is that this is part of the reason why we do not get the performance cars here. People are prepared to spend that extra cash on their 15 year old car and do it up instead of buying a new hypo car.

1. because there is none in the Honda market really

and

2. because the ones there is are WAY overpriced.

On that argument what happened to the days when Honda's were CHEAP hi-po cars that would run on nothing, stood out from the crowd (new civic looks a lot like new lancer) and were known for their awesome drivability and not because they were driven by the blue haired brigade*.

ok think that was enough of a tangent for one post :p




*average age of a honda driver is 50+

EfiOz
01-02-2007, 01:29 PM
I could not believe my eyes when I read this article, not because I am Honda lunatic (that too), but from simple business logic!!!:thumbdwn: Honda was always a sports car brand, its part in F1 racing and other events grew its image as innovative and forward looking companies. Now - with no sports car presence on the OZ market and cars coming from Thailand, I think Honda's CEO is very naive that they will be selling 80000 cars a year in OZ!!! It is so bizzare - Toyota is trying its hardest to establish itself in the niche where Honda ruled for last 25 years and Honda seems to vocate this position without a battle

Very Sad!!!

This guy will do what most CEO's do. Come in, wave his arms around, make a great big mess and leave for his next 7-figure-salary-position.

I don't know how most of these guys get any employment.............

EfiOz
01-02-2007, 01:30 PM
Hello, I am Helen!.
And even though this my first post here, I for a long time on this forum www.ozhonda.com I'm not sure if this should go here or in the GENERAL DISCUSS section,
so if it's in the wrong place, my apologies (and can someone move it please! EXCUSE uneducated girl). I just loved this topic.
Honestly we should start some movement or society. Anyway I'm also one of those people who enjoy to discuss "http://www.ozhonda.com".
In my opinion it would be a lot better to get some fact into our STUFF. I'll glad read all new information about this topic
Thanks a lot..!!
Helen V. Beden.

LOL, I've heard of them but I've never seen one before!!

SiR
01-02-2007, 03:18 PM
I knew you guys would be interested in this article as soon as I read it on Drive yesterday...

Soichiro Honda would be turning in his grave right now.

I would strongly consider buying either a Civic Type R or Euro R if they were sold here, but since that doesn't seem likely to happen, I will be taking my business to VW for a Golf GTi/R32 very shortly.

Dxs
01-02-2007, 03:24 PM
Honda australia have always sucked

nuff said

**Ghost**
01-02-2007, 04:32 PM
Honda australia have always sucked

nuff said

http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/dealerstock.php?carID=51882

my next car. Once it becomes available, and insurance companies know what it is. Should be about next year.

industrie
01-02-2007, 08:16 PM
the civic hatch is a must..and damn the old style civic hatch is still hot...

JasonGilholme
01-02-2007, 08:47 PM
I'm all for honda but so far they're spending more money of a friggin robot then what they are on the aussie market.

blk05gli
01-02-2007, 09:33 PM
I'm all for honda but so far they're spending more money of a friggin robot then what they are on the aussie market.

and some engine for a proto-type jet. i guess its good to diversify your business interests: passenger cars, F1, aviation, robotics but its another thing to loose your core business model - high revving performance engines in light weight AFFORDABLE cars.

And of Honda bringing Acura into OZ, remember nissan did that with Infiniti and what mazda did with Eunos in the early 90's - people just didn't get it and sales fell.

aaronng
01-02-2007, 10:37 PM
I'm all for honda but so far they're spending more money of a friggin robot then what they are on the aussie market.

Honda Japan /= Honda Australia. Honda Australia does not have any access to the money that Honda Japan has.

aaronng
01-02-2007, 10:37 PM
and some engine for a proto-type jet. i guess its good to diversify your business interests: passenger cars, F1, aviation, robotics but its another thing to loose your core business model - high revving performance engines in light weight AFFORDABLE cars.

And of Honda bringing Acura into OZ, remember nissan did that with Infiniti and what mazda did with Eunos in the early 90's - people just didn't get it and sales fell.
They didn't build up the brand. Eunos is dead. Infiniti is doing great In the US. And as you all know, Lexus is very successful now.

JasonGilholme
01-02-2007, 10:48 PM
Honda Japan /= Honda Australia. Honda Australia does not have any access to the money that Honda Japan has.

Yeah, but when it comes down to developing cars wouldn't you think that honda, as a whole, would want to win worldwide. Its great to delop a high performance car but its not so great if you can only sell it to 2 or 3 markets in the entire world.

With all those boffins workin on asimo, you'd think that they'd be able to use that intellegence to work out a better way of getting honda australia up to par with the rest of the world.

aaronng
01-02-2007, 11:22 PM
Yeah, but when it comes down to developing cars wouldn't you think that honda, as a whole, would want to win worldwide. Its great to delop a high performance car but its not so great if you can only sell it to 2 or 3 markets in the entire world.
Yes, they want to win worldwide, that's why they have best selling cars like the Accord Euro/TSX and the Civic. Their hi-po car won't sell well here because people here would rather buy a Ferrari/Lambo rather than a Honda for the same price. Once Honda builds up their reputation as a luxury car maker, I'm sure they can come back to building high performance models for all the markets, like what Audi is doing now with their S and RS lines, BMW with their M and Mercedes with AMG. Remember that Honda does not have a parent company like how Ferrari and Lambo has. They can't hedge all their bets on hi-po models and expect to survive. An interesting exception is Porsche. But then again, their cars don't cost over $400,000 except for the turbo and GT models.



With all those boffins workin on asimo, you'd think that they'd be able to use that intellegence to work out a better way of getting honda australia up to par with the rest of the world.
As I said, Honda Japan /= Honda Australia. It's like a franchise. If Honda Australia wanted a particular model, they would have to build a valid business model before they can even get it. It's not a just matter of transferring car stock to and fro. Same for engineers/designers/marketing. Honda Japan isn't going to give manpower or time to Honda Australia for free.

A.G.System
02-02-2007, 12:54 AM
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/dealerstock.php?carID=51882

my next car. Once it becomes available, and insurance companies know what it is. Should be about next year.

1,630,000.00 JPY Japan Yen = 17,486.89 AUD Australia Dollars

Nice :)

Now thats the kinda price they should be here and they would sell a crap load.

/me wanders off to dream some more.

panda[cRx]
02-02-2007, 05:32 AM
^ spambot, ban!


Yes, they want to win worldwide, that's why they have best selling cars like the Accord Euro/TSX and the Civic. Their hi-po car won't sell well here because people here would rather buy a Ferrari/Lambo rather than a Honda for the same price. Once Honda builds up their reputation as a luxury car maker, I'm sure they can come back to building high performance models for all the markets, like what Audi is doing now with their S and RS lines, BMW with their M and Mercedes with AMG. Remember that Honda does not have a parent company like how Ferrari and Lambo has. They can't hedge all their bets on hi-po models and expect to survive. An interesting exception is Porsche. But then again, their cars don't cost over $400,000 except for the turbo and GT models.

lol while the euro and accords have been selling decent numbers look at legend sales..... very disappointing imo :(
they haven't done enough advertising for it, alot of current honda owners that would be interested in it have never even seen it before

blk05gli
02-02-2007, 07:34 AM
They didn't build up the brand. Eunos is dead. Infiniti is doing great In the US. And as you all know, Lexus is very successful now.

Yep, it seems Lexus is the only brand that is getting worldwide acceptance. As for Infiniti, remove their G35 model and its not that successful as people think.

Setanta
03-02-2007, 08:23 AM
lol. I'm sure that someone on these forums was adamant that the Civic Type-R would be in Honda showrooms by January 2007. This tends to put a big "bullshit" sticker right over the top of that idea.

Honda Australia bringing in more mundane cars? Who would have guessed it?

If I get back into another Honda it will be an import - Honda Australia have NFI on how to appeal to a market - no wonder they get shat on in the car-sales stakes.

I'm more impressed with Nissan and Toyota, not to mention some of the new hot Holdens and VW Polos than I am with anything that comes out of Honda Australia's stable.

Mikeyas
09-02-2007, 05:33 PM
Look at the miss they made with the new legend... Check Wheels car of the year review.. Its bland, boring and basically a 70k accord...

EuroDude
09-02-2007, 05:40 PM
They better release a "hot hatch" soon, otherwise honda aus will lose a lot of sales to the Mazda 2/3, corolla, focus, etc..

The Jazz is too small to be considered a proper small->mid hatch

aaronng
09-02-2007, 06:47 PM
They better release a "hot hatch" soon, otherwise honda aus will lose a lot of sales to the Mazda 2/3, corolla, focus, etc..

I don't think they are losing sales. They can't even keep up with the deliveries of the Civic. And the number of MPS and XR5 sold are so few that it won't affect Honda's sales.

adammet04
09-02-2007, 07:10 PM
y r they bring the Acura into japan>? dosent acura n honda makes teh same cars? :S

toyota lexus,,

:)

A.G.System
09-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Think it sounds more like honda are trying to make a dedicated performance line.

Think that the problem there is that people take time to warm up to the new and strange.

One of 2 things are going to happen.

first being that hondas new acura range that they release will be a huge flop as there are in reality not enough performance buyers in australia to justify the running of the company. (read: eunos 30x by mazda)

second being that honda are going to break off and become a bland same old same old car company and we are going to have to change the name of this forum to OzAccura.

Either way things will get a shake up.

aaronng
09-02-2007, 08:56 PM
first being that hondas new acura range that they release will be a huge flop as there are in reality not enough performance buyers in australia to justify the running of the company. (read: eunos 30x by mazda)
Eunos did not even have a performance car. And their entire range was only 3-4 models in their entire life. World wide, Eunos only had only 8 models in its entire 7 year history, and that included the MX-5. There was no doubt that it would fail.



second being that honda are going to break off and become a bland same old same old car company and we are going to have to change the name of this forum to OzAccura.

Either way things will get a shake up.
Nah, it should be ok. From what I gather, Honda will stay as our current Honda, with the Type R or VTiR/Si go-faster lines. Acura on the other hand will be used for the luxury upmarket models like the Legend and their upcoming NSX replacement.

Chris_F
09-02-2007, 09:21 PM
i hope honda stays true to its heritage.. IMO toyota is one of the most uninspiring car companies (sports car wise) atm, but in the past they had a reputation for making some insane cars.. mr2 gt, supra, celica gt4 etc.

but at the same time they're one of the most profitable.. so who am i to talk

aaronng
09-02-2007, 09:47 PM
i hope honda stays true to its heritage.. IMO toyota is one of the most uninspiring car companies (sports car wise) atm, but in the past they had a reputation for making some insane cars.. mr2 gt, supra, celica gt4 etc.

but at the same time they're one of the most profitable.. so who am i to talk

Toyota Japan still makes insane cars, it's just that Toyota Australia wants a boring, safe image to gain ground with fleet sales and never imports those hot cars (except the corolla sportivo)

EuroDude
09-02-2007, 09:48 PM
Toyota make some of the most blandest cars on the road, especially Camry. For some reason, most people like these bland cars and they sell well and have reputation. Honda is trying to copy this technique to be viewed as a reliable "common car" company, and attempt to drop the "4cyl nippon boy racer" stance to gain sales.

Thats fair enough, but that doesnt explain why the sporty Euro outsells the normal Accord by ~5:1, the reason the Euro sells well is because its similar to a BMW in design and quality, at a very good price.

This is where Honda need to improve - design decent cars that can rival top selling european counterparts (i.e. VW Golf, BMW 3 series, Audi A3/A4) but keep the cars conservative enough to attract the common driver, with the option of a Sports pack to attract the enthusiasts who want a sporty+classy car in one package.

aaronng
09-02-2007, 10:12 PM
The Honda brand won't be used to rival the European marques. The Acura brand will do that. With Acura in Japan now, the REAL luxury Acuras like the TL will be made in RHD and will eventually be available to Australia.

BTW, Camry boring? What do you think of the Aurion? That is the Camry in other countries. Everyone on this forum (and other forums and motoring magazines) have it stuck in their head that the "camry" must be boring. Heck, if Toyota made an MR 3.5L 2 door sports coupe and called it the Camry, everyone would still say it was boring! LOL

EuroDude
09-02-2007, 10:19 PM
True, although VW have recently release very affordable cars such as the new Polo and Golf that rival Japanese pricing. Its different for BMW since they are a Premium brand.

Previous Camry's were boring, but the current Camry is a major improvement so times have changed (although the current Camry is still fugly imo, Aurion is ok though). Who knows, maybe Toyota will lose sales due to the new models being generally sportier lol

EG30
10-02-2007, 04:14 AM
Mazda is the new Honda.

Good range of vehicles from small to suvs with a few niche performance models, all made in Japan without a single dud model and good value for money in general. Sounds like the Honda Aust heydays in the 1990s really.

RyDC5S
11-02-2007, 03:30 AM
Mazda is the new Honda.

Good range of vehicles from small to suvs with a few niche performance models, all made in Japan without a single dud model and good value for money in general. Sounds like the Honda Aust heydays in the 1990s really.

Thats the current perception.

Current line of cars is quite impressive.

Xplodin
11-02-2007, 08:15 AM
yeah what ever happend to the cars that were purely made in japan... Whats this new plant in Thailand, common its the japanese quality that we are after and want... With Acura on its way to Aus, American made crap! is all i have to say about that brand... Even though its a sister company to honda. I'm sorry its just another way the americans can try n rule the world. No racisism intended. I've always stuck to my japanese brands, and Japan made things... its pure Quality i tell ya...

But thats just my 2 cents

blk05gli
11-02-2007, 11:21 AM
yeah what ever happend to the cars that were purely made in japan... Whats this new plant in Thailand, common its the japanese quality that we are after and want... With Acura on its way to Aus, American made crap! is all i have to say about that brand... Even though its a sister company to honda. I'm sorry its just another way the americans can try n rule the world. No racisism intended. I've always stuck to my japanese brands, and Japan made things... its pure Quality i tell ya...

But thats just my 2 cents

Ever been shopping for electronics? all major Japanese brands are design in japan, but manufactured/built worldwide.

EfiOz
11-02-2007, 02:13 PM
Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but it seems Honda are "dong a Toyota". The new MD is hell bent on his 80K units a year and they are being told to realign themselves with chasing the fleet markets.

Have you seen the ads for the new 30990 driveaway American Accords? That is the immediate future for OzHonda.

Where will it get them? Not far in the short term and potentially fatal to their prestige in the long. The fleet market ploy is doomed to fail as the big fleets won't touch them with a ten foot pole due to servicing costs and that only leaves the smaller fleets which are Holden/Ford dominated and heavily influenced by the whole V8 Supercar nonsense.

Ah, well. He'll go the way of most MD's with a bright idea and be recalled to Japan sometime in early 2009. Hopefully his replacement will try to undo the damage.

Vlas
11-02-2007, 04:53 PM
****ing honda they're so gay i'm going over to holden

A.G.System
11-02-2007, 05:12 PM
And you thought Honda were Gay?

You could have at least chosen a decent car maker......but seriously Opel...i mean holden. Yeah right.

26ounce
13-02-2007, 06:32 PM
This conservative trend has been taking over at honda for some time now. I would consider the nineties as the era when honda hit it's peak for driving enthusiasts. Looking back I'm amazed they went ahead producing models with so much overlap: prelude, integra & crx (not to mention the sportier civics and accords). I reckon they got caught up in the vtec hype as much as we did.

I'd agree that Mazda have taken over the mojo now. VW have some interesting cars out there too.

aaronng
13-02-2007, 06:57 PM
It's all a cycle. Once Honda regains their grip in sale numbers, then they will get back to producing sports models. It's just like what Mazda has done after being successful with the 2, 3 and 6, Toyota with their era of bland cars (if they really release the TRD Aurion, then they should be going back towards sports models as well).

IAMVTEC
13-02-2007, 10:55 PM
Look at the miss they made with the new legend... Check Wheels car of the year review.. Its bland, boring and basically a 70k accord...

I wouldnt believe any magazine that gives a Commodore car of the year!!! Australia 1 Germany 0 my ass HAHAHAHAHAA


70k Accord, yeah like an Accord has AWD or that many luxury features. What, do you expect a 70000 dollar car to fly?? Hate to braek to you but more expensive models are just slightly upgraded versions of less expensive versions. going up a level is hardly going from slave ship to 5 star hotel, OK? I sat in a Legend interior and E class interior and I feel the Legend is better.

fasthonda
15-02-2007, 06:54 PM
This conservative trend has been taking over at honda for some time now. I would consider the nineties as the era when honda hit it's peak for driving enthusiasts. Looking back I'm amazed they went ahead producing models with so much overlap: prelude, integra & crx (not to mention the sportier civics and accords). I reckon they got caught up in the vtec hype as much as we did.

I'd agree that Mazda have taken over the mojo now. VW have some interesting cars out there too.

Ah ! yes ,You are right about Honda in the nineties.Back then ,other car companies didn't know what variable timing was or how to implement it in their engines.
I was considering jumping ship,maybe Renault,Peugeot or VW but,after countless hours reviewing(Internet etc) other car makes two attributes just stood out from Honda,QUALITY and RELIABILTY.After sifting through countless surveys,professional reviews and most important,owner reviews from all over the world, apart from Lexus, and to a certain extent Madza,Honda nearly always occupied a postion in the top three manufacturers.That to me ,at least, speaks volumes about the Honda Product.
Honda though has began to be boring,Australia is a very,very small market,if we do get a Hi Performance car it will most likely come from Thailand,maybe we'll get a Type S Jazz when the new model comes out ,who's to know?

Anyway, check out what we may get in limited numbers.FRom the EVO Mag.http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/205151/honda_civic_typer.html

aaronng
15-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Ah ! yes ,You are right about Honda in the nineties.Back then ,other car companies didn't know what variable timing was or how to implement it in their engines.

Mate, Fiat made variable valve timing and lift back in 1960s. They filled the patent for it in 1970. Fiat patent (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=3641988.PN.&OS=PN/3641988&RS=PN/3641988)

The reason why Honda used 2 separate profiles for timing and lift was because the continuously variable system was already patented. Different methods of doing it were developed by other companies like Alfa Romeo and Nissan before Honda jumped in with VTEC.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3581/us003641988001bw9.jpg

SlobberGoat
17-02-2007, 11:07 AM
I'll say it again....

Honda glory years -> '85 - '95